Crazy LBS price quotes

[Hank Scorpio]

First I don't want this to turn into a LBS bashing thread. I worked in a LBS for three years while finishing school. I know that they need to pay rent, utilities, employees, insurance etc.

So this past weekend I broke my 14 tooth cog on a Steel/ TI record cassette. I called around to the locals nobody had a full cassette in stock much less a single cog. The only shop that had it in stock quoted me $579 for a record cassette! I didnt ask if it was the full TI but for that price I assume it was. This same shop once quoted me $60 for a rear derailuer hanger for the hanger alone without installation. I am not going to post the shops name here but if you are located in central NJ and want to know what shop to avoid PM me.

[eddief]

you'd get so excited about a price quote. why not just take your biz somewhere else...and leave it at that. you make it sound as if they tricked you and don't want anybody else to get tricked.

you called, they quoted, you did not like, and now you can move on.

maybe they were quoting you on the new gold plated model :).

the sky is not falling.

"First I don't want this to turn into a LBS bashing thread."

What did you want it to turn into?

[Charles M]

:beer: Eddie...

[cmg]

high campy costs aren't anything new. It's what the market will bare. most people are running on Shimano or Sram if you want lower replacement costs switch to those two but expect a higher frequency of repair (sorry for the dig). so now your either looking for it on eBay or somewhere else on the internet and discoveirng the same thing. just grin and bare it. but campy isn't going to get cheaper. try replacing a derailluer or a chain ring. Why so high? Was it for an 11 speed? Was the LBS located in a high rent district with lots of affluent people near by? surrounded by luxury............

[rugbysecondrow]

I don't think he seems excited. I also think one can post a thread about a specific issue without it turning into a statement about a larger subject (price of goods at LBS vs. the good of LBS). Just because something is negative does not make it bashing, does it?

I think the rub for many folks is the conflict, we want to do business with LBS for parts etc, but then feel gouged and are forced to go the internet route. My bar end shifter on my triathlon bike broke last week and I could not find a local shop that had a bar end friction shifter in stock. I ordered the part from VO not because it was preferred shop, nor because it was my preferred part, but only because it was in Maryland and they would get it to me promptly.

It seems that most local shops are good at service, they are good at working with and supplying parts for people who buy complete bikes with OEM components (shimano or sram). If you are outside the norm even slightly you are not in their wheelhouse. This is also not a knock or a bash, just a statement of fact. I don't hate LBS for this, they have to hedge their bets, but it also means I am in the ???? for my choice to ride Campy.


When I had an issue like the OP did, I called Oldpotatoe and Vechios bike shop in boulder and he was able to help me out at a reasonable price.

Cheers
Paul




you'd get so excited about a price quote. why not just take your biz somewhere else...and leave it at that. you make it sound as if they tricked you and don't want anybody else to get tricked.

you called, they quoted, you did not like, and now you can move on.

maybe they were quoting you on the new gold plated model :).

the sky is not falling.

"First I don't want this to turn into a LBS bashing thread."

What did you want it to turn into?

[Joachim]

When I had an issue like the OP did, I called Oldpotatoe and Vechios bike shop in boulder and he was able to help me out at a reasonable price.


Vecchio's is my online LBS...

[fourflys]

high campy costs aren't anything new. It's what the market will bare. most people are running on Shimano or Sram if you want lower replacement costs switch to those two but expect a higher frequency of repair (sorry for the dig).

well, I just started running SRAM (still have the Chorus 11sp just in case) and have ran Shimano plenty in the past... the only defect failure I had was on the Campy stuff... when my FD clamp snapped... btw- it had been installed by a Campy Pro Shop (one of the older pro shops btw) and I'm sure torqued appropriately...

so, not real sure about the higher frequency of repair... at least in this non-racer's experience...

[sbparker31]

A lot of it depends on the LBS. Where I live, there are two LBSs that are your typical OEM type shops that carry the "big" brands, such as Specialized, etc. There is no doubt they have nice stuff, but they are pricey. Also, they don't carry a lot of inventory of one-off or spare parts, but that is not their business. There is another LBS up the road that I often frequent. It is really more like the owner's personal garage. Yes, he has a lot of nice OEM bikes, but he also has a collection of spare parts and stuff that he has collected over the years. If I need something a bit off the norm, I go there first. On many occasions I have gone there and asked for something really odd (example -- 1980 suntour rear dereailleur limit screw), he will dig around in some drawer in the back, find it, and charge me like $2 or something.

[Hank Scorpio]

I wasnt that excited about it at all. I have two local shops where I can buy record cassettes for $299-350 just not on sundays. In a pinch I tried to locate one so I could ride and received that quote which I felt was just a shade on the high side. I realize campy carries a premium price and I was willing to pay within my perception of a reasonable price. The shop in question is just your regular run of the mill shop. Nothing too high end all OTR bikes.

As far as failure rate I have personally had one ten speed record front derailleur cage fail when the outer carbon plate popped off. It was adjusted properly prior to breakage. My friend also had the same thing happen to his 11 speed super record front that was installed by a completely different shop. The cog break was just a random defect in my opinion.

[CunegoFan]

Unless you are racing the Tour de France, ask for a Chorus or lower cassette. Cheaper and longer lasting than Record.

[Charles M]

Perspective...


http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2011-Campagnolo-Super-Record-11-Cassette-5268.22.1.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Google%2BBase&utm_campaign=Datafeed


It's not an LBS thing... In fact it's not the worst you could do.


Even from Ebay

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=campagnolo+record+cassette&_sacat=0&_sop=16&_dmpt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=campagnolo+record+Titanium+cassette&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

[Gummee]

Perspective...


http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2011-Campagnolo-Super-Record-11-Cassette-5268.22.1.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Google%2BBase&utm_campaign=Datafeed


It's not an LBS thing... In fact it's not the worst you could do.


Even from Ebay

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=campagnolo+record+cassette&_sacat=0&_sop=16&_dmpt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=campagnolo+record+Titanium+cassette&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313Ouch! for a wear item no less.

I'll stick with SRAM/Shimano thanks!

M

[edl]

A lot of it depends on the LBS. Where I live, there are two LBSs that are your typical OEM type shops that carry the "big" brands, such as Specialized, etc. There is no doubt they have nice stuff, but they are pricey. (snip)

And my local "big" brand LBS offered 25% off a 2011 Tarmac Expert the other day. Sometimes you never know what you'll get at your LBS. I always try to support them first, but if they are overpriced the interweb is ready to take your money :)

[cody.wms]

the only defect failure I had was on the Campy stuff... when my FD clamp snapped... btw- it had been installed by a Campy Pro Shop (one of the older pro shops btw) and I'm sure torqued appropriately...


35.0 right? Yeah, a bunch of those snapped, mine included. I'm going to go with a bolt on and clamp if I need to run a 35.0 from now on.

And yeah, Chorus cassettes (for 11 sp) are $100-150 depending on what continent and what ratio. The Record Ti stuff has been very expensive for a long time. Oh, and the chorus (and lesser) stuff with steel cogs is longer lasting...

[Blue Jays]

Hank Scorpio's post certainly isn't a slam. It's reality.
He is simply reporting on what is being observed at typical bike shops in the field.
It seems solid, good-intentioned, and totally informational to me.

[Germany_chris]

Perspective...


http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2011-Campagnolo-Super-Record-11-Cassette-5268.22.1.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Google%2BBase&utm_campaign=Datafeed


It's not an LBS thing... In fact it's not the worst you could do.


Even from Ebay

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=campagnolo+record+cassette&_sacat=0&_sop=16&_dmpt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=campagnolo+record+Titanium+cassette&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313


WOW is all I have to say!! 650 for a cassette on ebay...Thats just about what my F/F cost for a consumable jeeez..I think SR could lose the 12-29 if you're running SR 25's probably big enough..

[Hank Scorpio]

I wasn't specifically searching for Record I would have accepted anything to get me back on the road while I wait for the replacement cog to come in.

[tuscanyswe]

Perspective...


http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2011-Campagnolo-Super-Record-11-Cassette-5268.22.1.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Google%2BBase&utm_campaign=Datafeed


It's not an LBS thing... In fact it's not the worst you could do.


Even from Ebay

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=campagnolo+record+cassette&_sacat=0&_sop=16&_dmpt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=campagnolo+record+Titanium+cassette&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

And then you have prices like these http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p409_Record-UD-10-fach-Kassette-.html

No wonder cyclists have learned to search the net for cheaper parts. Theres a fortune to be made just by purchasing at the right place.

[130R]

Only a fool pays full price.


HAR HAR HAR

[staggerwing]

I wasn't specifically searching for Record I would have accepted anything to get me back on the road while I wait for the replacement cog to come in.

Veering slightly off course.

Could a loose cog from an 8, 9 or 10 have been used interchangeably? In other words, has the cog thickness over the recent years remained constant, with the only differences being in spacer thickness?

I saw on the CC Super Record description that some of their cogs were mounted on a carriers. Don't know what group mine are from, but they are all loose cogs?

[bobswire]

And then you have prices like these http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p409_Record-UD-10-fach-Kassette-.html

No wonder cyclists have learned to search the net for cheaper parts. Theres a fortune to be made just by purchasing at the right place.

Ribble http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Cassettes-Road-Campagnolo-11-Spd-Super-Record-Cassette/CAMPCASS740

Toys for the upper 5%.

[Hank Scorpio]

I guess I didn't post this originally but this was a 10 speed cassette. According to some sites the thickness of both 9 and 10 speed cogs is 1.70 but I assume that the shift ramp placement is different due to the location they are situated within the cassette. On mine the 14 is the third in from the 12. They also have different part numbers. The ten speed 14 is 14-a the nine speed is 14-b. But that point is moot when your cog breaks 50 miles from home.

One point of levity is the guy who was behind me on the ride stopped and picked up the pieces and asked me if I wanted them.

[crownjewelwl]

it was easy to love campy

[thwart]

no one said it was easy to love campy
I dunno... it seems to happen every time I ride my bike.

I've got a few spare used cassettes around. Chains (new only here), too.

Highly recommended.

[staggerwing]

it was easy to love campy

Sure, it's easy to love Campy. But I've been able to piece together whole groups, for about what CC has that 12-29 Super Record cassette listed for. Of course, they were lightly used, and sourced from fellow forumites. :banana: :banana:

[btulloch]

Perspective...


http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2011-Campagnolo-Super-Record-11-Cassette-5268.22.1.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Google%2BBase&utm_campaign=Datafeed


It's not an LBS thing... In fact it's not the worst you could do.


Even from Ebay

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=campagnolo+record+cassette&_sacat=0&_sop=16&_dmpt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=campagnolo+record+Titanium+cassette&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313


12-29 - $603
11-23 - $474

One more reason to HTFU

[ultraman6970]

Well a record 10 is 300 bucks, so if the lbs asked 600 i believe it is too much. Maybe the guys quoted the wrong thing with the dealer??? Not rare, many stores don't see campagnolo more than 1 time per year, if they see any. Campagnolo owners in general know mechanic probably better than the mechanic him self in any shop.

Well i did not see what cog the op broke but all depends. At least the record i have comes like in 3 clusters, are 3 pieces (or 4 cant remember), 3 cogs all together, then 3 more and the last four are independent.

Depending on what u broke is what u have to buy obviously. In ebay u can find independent cogs or clusters as well.

Second option, get miche replacements, those should work ok, are heavy but they should work.

Centaur 10 cassettes, at least the one i have has like 8 independent cogs, What i would do is just buy a veloce a centaur or a miche and beat the crap out it.

Good luck.

[Charles M]

12-29 - $603
11-23 - $474

One more reason to HTFU


:hello:

LMAO, It's a "sissie tax"

[Grant McLean]

I guess I didn't post this originally but this was a 10 speed cassette. According to some sites the thickness of both 9 and 10 speed cogs is 1.70 but I assume that the shift ramp placement is different due to the location they are situated within the cassette. On mine the 14 is the third in from the 12. They also have different part numbers. The ten speed 14 is 14-a the nine speed is 14-b. But that point is moot when your cog breaks 50 miles from home.

One point of levity is the guy who was behind me on the ride stopped and picked up the pieces and asked me if I wanted them.


you could replace the smaller cogs with centaur 10 inexpensively

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Cassettes-Road-Campagnolo-10Spd-Centaur-UD-Cassette/CAMPCASS515

-g

[FixedNotBroken]

Unless you are racing the Tour de France, ask for a Chorus or lower cassette. Cheaper and longer lasting than Record.

+1..you don't add much weight and it lasts much longer. I have a pair of Zipp 404's that I race/tri with and they have a SR 11 cassette but I only use it for races. For training/casual riding I use a Chorus 11 cassette. Old Potatoe has even said to use the Chorus cassette and it lasts longer.

[Pete Serotta]

Try Cyclesport in Parkridge NJ. Mike and his team are excellent. I personally have had no campy problems but then Campy has never been cheap. As to cassette broken, i have never seen or heardof one breaking. If it is not a wear but a break, it could be a warranty based on age and if bought in US shop.


Good luck with it. I use only chorus cassettes for I am cheap and a lighter weight does not help me. Chrous wears a long time if chain and lube are part of maintenance.


Pete

[djg21]

I second the "it's a free country" view. There is nothing precluding you from shopping elsewhere. Maybe the shop made a conscious decision to forego your business?

[Hank Scorpio]

Djg you are saying that over a maybe five minute phone call the shop decided that I was a prick and that they didn't want my business so they made up a fictitious price so that I wouldn't shop there? Makes sense to me I can be a jerk. Also I didn't have many choices on a sunday.

[djg21]

Djg you are saying that over a maybe five minute phone call the shop decided that I was a prick and that they didn't want my business so they made up a fictitious price so that I wouldn't shop there? Makes sense to me I can be a jerk. Also I didn't have many choices on a sunday.


I didn't say that at all. What I said is that the shop may have made a business decision that it wasn't worth its time to make the sale of a part that it likely would have had to chase down from a distributor, pay a significant price for the part, and obtain payment from you in advance or risk being stuck with an expensive part in inventory that it probably never would be able to sell if you were to disappear, etc.

Or, maybe the employee just opened his parts catalog and looked at the wrong freewheel and or quoted an incorrect price? You never mentioned if you inquired.

Who knows? Some shop owners/employees can be jerks at time; some customers of shops can be jerks at times; we all undoubtedly have our regrettable moments. But I would not be so quick to jump to conclusions or cast aspersions. Like I said, if you don't like the shop, go elsewhere and let your money do the talking. Brick and mortar bike shops have it tough enough right now, and I do think you criticism and offer to disclose the name of the shop to other forumites in PMs may have been a little over the top. That's just my opinion, and you and others may reasonably disagree.

[Blue Jays]

djg21, in this economic climate it is very unlikely sane businesses are actively seeking to turn away clientele.
They may have potentially lost Hank Scorpio's potential future transactions by quoting outrageous, off-the-cuff, crazy prices.

[Blue Jays]

djg21, clarified and spoken like a gentleman / gentlewoman! :beer:

[soulspinner]

I dont get a quote over msrp, thats just saying we dont want to bother..................

[oldpotatoe]

First I don't want this to turn into a LBS bashing thread. I worked in a LBS for three years while finishing school. I know that they need to pay rent, utilities, employees, insurance etc.

So this past weekend I broke my 14 tooth cog on a Steel/ TI record cassette. I called around to the locals nobody had a full cassette in stock much less a single cog. The only shop that had it in stock quoted me $579 for a record cassette! I didnt ask if it was the full TI but for that price I assume it was. This same shop once quoted me $60 for a rear derailuer hanger for the hanger alone without installation. I am not going to post the shops name here but if you are located in central NJ and want to know what shop to avoid PM me.

Ya know, I went into a restaurant the other day and they were asking like twice for dinner than the place down the street...I'm sure they were screwing me......

BTW-A SR cogset wholesale in just about every distributors catalog is about

$375...a 10s about $300...all ti are discontinued.

So the bike shop prices are too high in your opinion...go somewhere else and yes, in my eyes, this is a LBS bash thread...

-LBS owner.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't think he seems excited. I also think one can post a thread about a specific issue without it turning into a statement about a larger subject (price of goods at LBS vs. the good of LBS). Just because something is negative does not make it bashing, does it?

I think the rub for many folks is the conflict, we want to do business with LBS for parts etc, but then feel gouged and are forced to go the internet route. My bar end shifter on my triathlon bike broke last week and I could not find a local shop that had a bar end friction shifter in stock. I ordered the part from VO not because it was preferred shop, nor because it was my preferred part, but only because it was in Maryland and they would get it to me promptly.

It seems that most local shops are good at service, they are good at working with and supplying parts for people who buy complete bikes with OEM components (shimano or sram). If you are outside the norm even slightly you are not in their wheelhouse. This is also not a knock or a bash, just a statement of fact. I don't hate LBS for this, they have to hedge their bets, but it also means I am in the ???? for my choice to ride Campy.


When I had an issue like the OP did, I called Oldpotatoe and Vechios bike shop in boulder and he was able to help me out at a reasonable price.

Cheers
Paul

The 'internet route' and the LBS route, in terms of distribution channels and cost of expenses(like a store front and employees, etc) are completely different. If a customer feels like he's getting 'gouged' by a LBS then they need to do some research into retail in general and bike retail specifically.

Buy buy cheap if you want and don't be surprised if things like a warranty don't exist. But the bike shop owner isn't trying to pay for his G4(that's a biz jet, BTW) or make a payment on his Mercedes.... most are just trying to keep the lights on....

stepping off soap box....

[William]

.... But the bike shop owner isn't trying to pay for his G4(that's a biz jet, BTW) or make a payment on his Mercedes.... most are just trying to keep the lights on....

stepping off soap box....

That's G5 today.....Playaaaah!!! ;)



William

[oldpotatoe]

That's G5 today.....Playaaaah!!! ;)



William

I could only afford a used G-4......along with my vintage Corsair...and I'm saving for my own Phantom...just gotta ask a little more for those Campagnolo cogsets and chains......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQxb-V-rZqA

[William]

I could only afford a used G-4......along with my vintage Corsair...and I'm saving for my own Phantom...just gotta ask a little more for those Campagnolo cogsets and chains......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQxb-V-rZqA

:no:
You need to be asking more for those Campy bits....the G5's are Sah-wee-heet!!



:)
William

[oldpotatoe]

+1..you don't add much weight and it lasts much longer. I have a pair of Zipp 404's that I race/tri with and they have a SR 11 cassette but I only use it for races. For training/casual riding I use a Chorus 11 cassette. Old Potatoe has even said to use the Chorus cassette and it lasts longer.

Of course and Veloce for 10s....consumables afterall.

[jr59]

I could only afford a used G-4......along with my vintage Corsair...and I'm saving for my own Phantom...just gotta ask a little more for those Campagnolo cogsets and chains......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQxb-V-rZqA

You guys are killing me! :banana:

G4 or g5 or whatever. :D


Any place of business can charge what ever they wish. (for the most part),
just as I can shop anywhere I wish. What does it matter? If you feel the cost is to high, go somewhere else.
Just don't come whining and crying like a little b*th when something goes wrong. Or the local shop closes it's doors, or the LBS charges you double+ to fix whatever you are crying about!

Price is not the only factor. If it is to you, then I pity you. Service and being able to touch the stuff, ask if this will work, test ride, try something on, get something right now,ie tubes or a spoke. Those are things that can't be done on line. GUESS WHAT!!! Those things cost $$$. They cost for overhead and payroll, not counting all the correct answers given.

I think that any LBS is entitled to make whatever they can. I hope they all fly G5's and wear rolex watches. (sorry peter).

And I also agreee, this is a LBS hate type thread.

[jr59]

:no:
You need to be asking more for those Campy bits....the G5's are Sah-wee-heet!!



:)
William


100% agree!

[oldpotatoe]

You guys are killing me! :banana:

G4 or g5 or whatever. :D


Any place of business can charge what ever they wish. (for the most part),
just as I can shop anywhere I wish. What does it matter? If you feel the cost is to high, go somewhere else.
Just don't come whining and crying like a little b*th when something goes wrong. Or the local shop closes it's doors, or the LBS charges you double+ to fix whatever you are crying about!

Price is not the only factor. If it is to you, then I pity you. Service and being able to touch the stuff, ask if this will work, test ride, try something on, get something right now,ie tubes or a spoke. Those are things that can't be done on line. GUESS WHAT!!! Those things cost $$$. They cost for overhead and payroll, not counting all the correct answers given.

I think that any LBS is entitled to make whatever they can. I hope they all fly G5's and wear rolex watches. (sorry peter).

And I also agreee, this is a LBS hate type thread.


What he said...I got my Rolex 33 years ago for $645....

[Lifelover]

I will say this and then go hide for a few days:

Anyone that pays north of $200 for any cassette has more money than brains.

We truly are the luckiest SOBs in the entire world!

[Blue Jays]

"...I worked in a LBS for three years while finishing school. I know that they need to pay rent, utilities, employees, insurance etc..."The OP made it clear in the first sentence of his/her thread that he/she does "get it" about cash flow for LBS.
It's commentary on retail pricing, not about LBS business practices or LBS bashing at all.

[Gummee]

The OP made it clear in the first sentence of his/her thread that he/she does "get it" about cash flow for LBS.
It's commentary on retail pricing, not about LBS business practices or LBS bashing at all.
IME there's keystoning for goods under a certain price point, but once the prices get over $X then the ratio goes down. Keystoning a $300+ cassette = I don't wanna sell (order) one.

Quite honestly, I like internet sales. When someone brings you their gold-plated whoosit that they had trouble installing and I get to fix it, its almost pure profit for me. After all, I didn't hafta order it (time = $), have it shipped ($), bring it into stock and *hope* it sells (again time = $), etc. Yes, they'll pay for installation where if they'd bought it from me, I'd probably have tossed it on for cheap or free, but the PITA of actually stocking the thing is now someone else's issue.

Just another way to look at the business model shops find themselves in.

M

[Pete Serotta]

OldPotatoe (aka Peter) was right on. Also>>>>>

I know of an old Marine F4 Phantom for sale, It has a few holes and some scorch marks...ie in excellent shape.


Drop by Cherry Point and see if they will take your G4 (I will take the ROLEX)

If a far faster and more fun CH46 wanted :beer: come on by New River.


For beer first come by RALIEIGH home of the red wine!!!!


PETE

[djg21]

I once worked in a ski/bike shop in a ski resort community. On more than one occassion, I responded to customers persisting in demanding "deals" that: (a) I was not Monty Hall; and (2) O.K. A special deal for you -- one for the price of two. Translate -- drive down the valley to Dick's Sporting Goods and get your deal there. I have too many other customers willing to pay for our expertise and service to waste any more time with you.

[rugbysecondrow]

I once worked in a ski/bike shop in a ski resort community. On more than one occassion, I responded to customers persisting in demanding "deals" that: (a) I was not Monty Hall; and (2) O.K. A special deal for you -- one for the price of two. Translate -- drive down the valley to Dick's Sporting Goods and get your deal there. I have too many other customers willing to pay for our expertise and service to waste any more time with you.


Your boss was fortunate that you were able to treat customers like that and stay in business.

[djg21]

Your boss was fortunate that you were able to treat customers like that and stay in business.

Dealing with some customers just presented opportunity costs -- in the time spent babysitting them while they demanded discounts only available from the shop down the street selling grey market goods, you could be closing sales and working with customers who wished to build long-term relationships and were willing to pay for the service provided. The shop still is in business, and last I checked, remained amongst the most profitable ski and sport shop in the Rockies.

It's a free country! Barring issues of unlawful discrimination, there simply is nothing requiring a retailer to do business with any particular client.

BTW, try this experiment: go to a supermarket, and go to the checkout counter with a can of peas. Tell the checkout clerk that the price is too high and you want to negotiate. Before you do this, please make sure that no one is behind you in the checkout line, or you may end up with the can of peas embedded in your cranium. Please let us know how this goes!

[rugbysecondrow]

Dealing with some customers just presented opportunity costs -- in the time spent babysitting them while they demanded discounts only available from the shop down the street selling grey market goods, you could be closing sales and working with customers who wished to build long-term relationships and were willing to pay for the service provided. The shop still is in business, and last I checked, remained amongst the most profitable ski and sport shop in the Rockies.

It's a free country! Barring issues of unlawful discrimination, there simply is nothing requiring a retailer to do business with any particular client.

BTW, try this experiment: go to a supermarket, and go to the checkout counter with a can of peas. Tell the checkout clerk that the price is too high and you want to negotiate. Before you do this, please make sure that no one is behind you in the checkout line, or you may end up with the can of peas embedded in your cranium. Please let us know how this goes!

Supermarket = Performance Bikes

Butcher Shop = Specialty Shop

No comparison.

Maybe your delivery is better in person than online but I don't see room for treating customers rudely. I have worked retail and waited tables for years, somethings are tolerable and that is just not one of them.

By the way, no harm is asking for discounts, I do it all the time. I have asked for a discount on a gallon of milk that is expiring sooner than the rest, so you are asking the wrong person. If they say no, you move on. If they say yes, you save money. Not complicated and no snide remarks needed.

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't know how this degraded into a lbs vs online debate. I purchase the majority of my items from the local guys. On this item it wasn't possible so I decided to try my luck at another shop that is a little less local but still very much a lbs not Nashbar performance Rei etc. I never asked for a discount or anything to be ordered just simply what they had in stock and what did it cost cash and carry no installation necessary.

[Blue Jays]

"...I purchase the majority of my items from the local guys.
On this item it wasn't possible so I decided to try my luck at another shop that is a little less local but still very much a LBS, not Nashbar, Performance, REI, etc.
I never asked for a discount or anything to be ordered just simply what they had in stock and what did it cost cash and carry no installation necessary..."Spoken like a gentleman/gentlewoman and makes complete sense.

[Kontact]

The bike shop in question was asked if they had ANY 10 speed Campy cassette, and they only had the most expensive one - as priced by Campy. And you were lucky to find that one.

It strikes me that if you are concerned about replacement parts, you wouldn't buy Campy in the first place. I have no idea what it's like in Europe, but this is not a line that comes on stock bicycles, so the chances of in-stock parts for the rare custom level bike equipped with it is slim. If you want a Campy bike, stock up on consumables. If you want wheels with special spokes, buy them right away, too. Or just use common stuff that works and weighs about the same, but can be fixed easily.

Napa probably doesn't have many Ferrari parts, either.

[djg21]

Supermarket = Performance Bikes
Butcher Shop = Specialty Shop

No comparison.


Fair enough.

Go to a "specialty" butcher shop and demand that the butcher negotiate the price of a lb. of chuckroast. Keep in mind that butchers wield meat cleavers.

[WickedWheels]

One of the more sensible responses on here.

I, for one, agree that this is a bike shop bashing thread.

Everything can be found cheaper online, especially bicycle related. The idea that someone on a Serotta forum is b1tching about the price of a Campy cassette is ludicrous. And too familiar.

This is a forum run by one of the most elite brands in the world that caters to a clientele that values service and quality--and is willing to pay a premium for it. Campy is a company that primarily caters to a similar consumer. They are certainly not your run-of-the-mill manufacturer and have a minority market share in the U.S. Who here is surprised that a bike shop that actually had the item in stock wants to make the profit margin necessary to keep their lights on?

Could you buy it online for less? Of course. Could the shop match the online price? Probably not because Campy distribution is a disaster, especially in Europe, and is available for less than wholesale in the U.S. They could stop stocking Campy bits to avoid threads like this or they could provide the parts for their customers that appreciate a shop that has immediate availability, even if it is for more than it's available through a European mail-order place.

Bottom line... if you want the part available at your LBS then be prepared to pay their price and not complain about. If the price is more than you can handle than perhaps you should reconsider using such high-end equipment or be prepared to wait for the mail man to show up. Perhaps find a forum like "Slickdeals.net" to complain about the lack of deal at your LBS.

One more thing... if you were their regular valued customer I'm sure that they would have extended to you some sort of a "friends and family" discount and would be willing to lower their margins slightly to keep your valued business.

The bike shop in question was asked if they had ANY 10 speed Campy cassette, and they only had the most expensive one - as priced by Campy. And you were lucky to find that one.

It strikes me that if you are concerned about replacement parts, you wouldn't buy Campy in the first place. I have no idea what it's like in Europe, but this is not a line that comes on stock bicycles, so the chances of in-stock parts for the rare custom level bike equipped with it is slim. If you want a Campy bike, stock up on consumables. If you want wheels with special spokes, buy them right away, too. Or just use common stuff that works and weighs about the same, but can be fixed easily.

Napa probably doesn't have many Ferrari parts, either.

[Germany_chris]

The bike shop in question was asked if they had ANY 10 speed Campy cassette, and they only had the most expensive one - as priced by Campy. And you were lucky to find that one.

It strikes me that if you are concerned about replacement parts, you wouldn't buy Campy in the first place. I have no idea what it's like in Europe, but this is not a line that comes on stock bicycles, so the chances of in-stock parts for the rare custom level bike equipped with it is slim. If you want a Campy bike, stock up on consumables. If you want wheels with special spokes, buy them right away, too. Or just use common stuff that works and weighs about the same, but can be fixed easily.

Napa probably doesn't have many Ferrari parts, either.

I have to order most Campy stuff here also. While in my experience it's more common it's not Shimano. I live in a large city where you'd think there would be some market.

[sbparker31]

Dealing with some customers just presented opportunity costs -- in the time spent babysitting them while they demanded discounts only available from the shop down the street selling grey market goods, you could be closing sales and working with customers who wished to build long-term relationships and were willing to pay for the service provided. The shop still is in business, and last I checked, remained amongst the most profitable ski and sport shop in the Rockies.

snip.

I frequent a shop in a high end resort town (also in the Rockies) when I need a part here or there. Yes, their prices are a bit higher than typical. But they do a great business -- renting bicycles to tourists. This is a time and labor intensive business and I can see their employees with gritted teeth and forced smiles as they outfit family after family (many of whom got to town on a G5). Me buying a a new chain for $30 dollars is probably opportunity cost. Sometimes I feel like I should give the poor shop guy a tip.

[oldpotatoe]

I frequent a shop in a high end resort town (also in the Rockies) when I need a part here or there. Yes, their prices are a bit higher than typical. But they do a great business -- renting bicycles to tourists. This is a time and labor intensive business and I can see their employees with gritted teeth and forced smiles as they outfit family after family (many of whom got to town on a G5). Me buying a a new chain for $30 dollars is probably opportunity cost. Sometimes I feel like I should give the poor shop guy a tip.

I think you should. A sixer of something he can enjoy after the doors close would be hugely appreciated. I'm sure they got a fridge, or they should, any decent bike shop does.

That shop guy can't afford to live where he works, lives down the road in some sort of high-ish end 'project' housing, waiting till the snow flys so he can ski.....

Bike retail, the best and worse job there is at the same time...samo for bike retail ownership.....

[William]

As an aside, the G5 stuff was joking around.

Prices are what they are, cast your vote of support with your feet (and wallet).

As another aside, I have two LBS's around me....one almost always gives me the feeling that I'm bothering them when I come in, the other takes good care of me....and everyone else that walks in their door, prices are reasonable, support and customer service is great. I was actually there yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at the smokin' deal they gave me on two mtb's.

If you're ever in Southern RI for a vacation at the beaches and need a rental, service, parts, or just want to shoot the breeze with folks who get it...go here:

http://www.westedman.com/

Selling bikes since 1920.


William


PS: I need to figure out how to get the photos I took of the Fondriest and Carrera frame and forks hanging in the shop off my phone. :crap:

[sbparker31]

I think you should. A sixer of something he can enjoy after the doors close would be hugely appreciated. I'm sure they got a fridge, or they should, any decent bike shop does.

That shop guy can't afford to live where he works, lives down the road in some sort of high-ish end 'project' housing, waiting till the snow flys so he can ski.....

Bike retail, the best and worse job there is at the same time...samo for bike retail ownership.....

True, the shop owner lives in "employee housing." But at least one of his employees that I know lives right there in town near the shop -- with four roommates in a 3 bedroom condo. When the snow flies he is outfitting those same families on skis and snowboards. Granted, he rides killer singletrack in the summer and skis world class runs in the winter so I don't feel that bad for him. . .

[djg21]

Sometimes I feel like I should give the poor shop guy a tip.

You absolutely should. I always appreciated it when a happy customer came by with a couple of six-packs.

[mtnbke]

Not appropriate for the forum.

BK
Moderator

[Germany_chris]

Not appropriate for the forum.

BK
Moderator

I wondered if that was going to happen...

Good Job Mods!

I read that rant in it's full glory, jeeezzz

[Joachim]

Not appropriate for the forum.

BK
Moderator


Nice! Definitely left a bad taste in my mouth after reading that. Thanks Mods!

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

:beer: I dunno... it seems to happen every time I ride my bike.
Highly recommended.

[Pete Serotta]

:crap: :crap: I have run our of ways to get mtnbke to be a "play nice". The ID is banned by me at this time. If others have an opinion that they think will change my action or thoughts of having this ID gone, please let me know.

It is like going to a eatery and not caring to be associated with the actions of a person, I just move to another table or eatery. :no: :no:

Sorry for the heavy handed decision but the other moderators have tried to bring the postings back to the way of the forum but have not been able to come the entire way. It is a shame. PETE


Not appropriate for the forum.

BK
Moderator

[firerescuefin]

:beer: Thanks Pete...not overdue, but right on time.

[AngryScientist]

thanks Pete, you're a big part of what makes this forum so great.

TWO glasses of red on me next time we meet! :D

[Joachim]

:beer: Thanks Pete...not overdue, but right on time.

Me too..

[Germany_chris]

I think he was banned from MTBR also

[Ozz]

Not appropriate for the forum.

BK
Moderator
man, I log in late today and miss all the good stuff! :cool:

Prices are what they are....I negotiate with customers all day...my typical stance is "sure we can negotiate....what will you give, to get a lower price?" The answer is "more business"

The key to negotiating is not to give something without getting something in return.

Know your costs and stay positive and you will win customers, and more business.

:beer:

[djg21]

Not appropriate for the forum.

BK
Moderator


What did I miss? :confused:

[rugbysecondrow]

What did I miss? :confused:


Nothing, just some trolling. I read it this morning and thought better of responding to it...likely one of the first times I have exhibited restraint on the forum. :)