So set me straight

[bkboom123]

I havent posted in a while, besides selling off my last road bits, but I am confused. I have switched over to the "dark" side of cycling. I am now a trail rider, and an occasionaly DH rider.

In my previous life (the road cycling life), I could "justify" the cost of components and carbon fibre frames. Now that I have converted over to mountain biking, I dont firggin understand it. The amount of engineering that is involved in a DH rig from top to bottom is unbelievable. I am amazed by the suspension, braking, brake jack, fork characteristics, etc of mountain biking.

Then you look at an absolute top of the line DH mountain bike with all that engineering and its $6,000 (not to mention it weighs 34 pounds and can drive off the empire state building) . Then I go back and look at a rigid, cable everything road bike and think "why on earth is this more expensive".

Has anyone ever thought about this? They make carbon fiber DH bikes to withstand trees, rocks and crashes not to mention suspension applications but yet rigid road bikes are more expensive? :cool:

[Ken Robb]

Downhill bikes have to be sold to young punks with no $$$. :) Road bikes can be sold to rich lawyers flush with ill-gotten gains.

[fourflys]

Downhill bikes have to be sold to young punks with no $$$. :) Road bikes can be sold to rich lawyers flush with ill-gotten gains.

that's about the size of it... we know on both of these examples that the actual cost is nil when compared to what it sells for... the companies will charge what the public is willing to pay, it's as simple as that...

BTW- if you want a well-made, sweet looking bike check out Steve Garro's stuff... Coconino Bikes (http://juniper-solutions.com/coconinocycles/)

[MattTuck]

when weight isn't [as much of] a factor, it changes the product requirements, and processes required, and thus the costs.

also, a lot of the 'engineering' for DH bikes is borrowed from motorcycles.

[sbparker31]

Good point on the weight issues. Especially with DH bikes -- weight is not so much a factor, so you can overbuild everything and not so much engineering is needed to reduce weight while maintaining strength. Also, it is true that the markets are different, and manufacturers can just flat out charge more for road bikes.

[dancinkozmo]

....strong, light, or cheap ...pick any two

[redir]

I always thought mountain bikes tend to be more expensive then road bikes. Sure there are 7K road bikes but you can get a darn good race worthy one for 1k. 1k in a mountain bike don't get you that much IMO.

[toasttoast]

I always thought mountain bikes tend to be more expensive then road bikes. Sure there are 7K road bikes but you can get a darn good race worthy one for 1k. 1k in a mountain bike don't get you that much IMO.

1K in a road bike (from a major brand, not any online direct stuff) will get you a Tiagra bike on a heavy aluminum frame with crappy wheels and off-brand parts wherever possible (brakes, stem, seatpost, bars, etc).

1K in a mountain bike will get you a heavy aluminum frame, mediocre fork, low-end hydraulic disc brakes, and a cheapish 3x9 drivetrain.

I wouldn't call the road bike "raceworthy", nor the MTB ready for serious offroad riding. The two bikes are more suited for supported century rides and mild trails, respectively.

[Vientomas]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the "weight is not a factor" on DH bikes and the "engineering is borrowed from motorcycles". Weight is most certainly a factor in a DH race bike. Much work goes into keeping the weight down. The rear suspension designs such as DW Link and VPP have no roots in motorcycle design. They were designed for bicycles. Check out the Intense M9 FRO and the Turner DHR. Tremendous design and manufacturing investment from the manufacturers (both made in USA), yet compared to road bikes, relatively inexpensive.

[sbparker31]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the "weight is not a factor" on DH bikes and the "engineering is borrowed from motorcycles". Weight is most certainly a factor in a DH race bike. Much work goes into keeping the weight down. The rear suspension designs such as DW Link and VPP have no roots in motorcycle design. They were designed for bicycles. Check out the Intense M9 FRO and the Turner DHR. Tremendous design and manufacturing investment from the manufacturers (both made in USA), yet compared to road bikes, relatively inexpensive.

Yes, certainly correct. The bikes you refer to are in the ballpark of $4000 to $5000. You can take that Tuner DHR and put it right next to a $5000 road bike -- say a Specialized carbon with dura ace and you would think that you are getting a lot more for you money with the Turner. And you probably are.

[Germany_chris]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the "weight is not a factor" on DH bikes and the "engineering is borrowed from motorcycles". Weight is most certainly a factor in a DH race bike. Much work goes into keeping the weight down. The rear suspension designs such as DW Link and VPP have no roots in motorcycle design. They were designed for bicycles. Check out the Intense M9 FRO and the Turner DHR. Tremendous design and manufacturing investment from the manufacturers (both made in USA), yet compared to road bikes, relatively inexpensive.

+1

Road bike stuff is just more expensive. The demographic is part of it, but I think in general people keep road bikes longer i.e they stay relevant and up to date longer. The problem with the mountain bike industry is the standard have not been settled 9mm, 15mm, 20mm front axle, thru axle or 9mm rear. 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 tapered post mount or isis mount etc. I thinks once things settle out I'll buy another 29 or 650b but I really want to give it a couple more years.

[sbparker31]

+1

Road bike stuff is just more expensive. The demographic is part of it, but I think in general people keep road bikes longer i.e they stay relevant and up to date longer. The problem with the mountain bike industry is the standard have not been settled 9mm, 15mm, 20mm front axle, thru axle or 9mm rear. 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 tapered post mount or isis mount etc. I thinks once things settle out I'll buy another 29 or 650b but I really want to give it a couple more years.

I don't thing the mountain bike industry is ever going to "settle out". As you have pointed out, every couple of years there is a new standard. I think the next thing we are going to see is the wheel thing take off, with 26, 29, 650b, and mixed wheel sizes on bikes, and ranges of forks for all sizes. Don't wait, just plunk down some coin and ride!

[Germany_chris]

I don't thing the mountain bike industry is ever going to "settle out". As you have pointed out, every couple of years there is a new standard. I think the next thing we are going to see is the wheel thing take off, with 26, 29, 650b, and mixed wheel sizes on bikes, and ranges of forks for all sizes. Don't wait, just plunk down some coin and ride!

The wheel thing has taken off with mixed sizes even even Trek makes a 69er and has for years...

I would have traded my Serotta :o for that Milk Money in the classifieds...

[bkboom123]

Personally I think weight is a factor. I mean the Santa Cruz team rocks a bike that weighs 35.5 pounds and is made of carbon fiber. If weight wasnt an issue then the companies would not be venturing into the carbon "arena" I suppose. I have read that some lighter riders use 140mm rotors just to save weight.

I know the demographic is WAY different (doctors and dentists vs. blue collar work force) but it just seems ludacris to me to have such a "simple" machine costing the same and in most cases much more. I know the "carbon layup" argument but still, these things just ride on smooth roads (comparitvely speaking)

[Germany_chris]

Personally I think weight is a factor. I mean the Santa Cruz team rocks a bike that weighs 35.5 pounds and is made of carbon fiber. If weight wasnt an issue then the companies would not be venturing into the carbon "arena" I suppose. I have read that some lighter riders use 140mm rotors just to save weight.

I know the demographic is WAY different (doctors and dentists vs. blue collar work force) but it just seems ludacris to me to have such a "simple" machine costing the same and in most cases much more. I know the "carbon layup" argument but still, these things just ride on smooth roads (comparitvely speaking)

There probably isn't an argument that will hold water for the additional costs of a road bike, they are a simple and mature. Mountain bike are neither particularly the bikes your talking about.