Paint or powder coating - who and why?

[InspectorGadget]

I have an aluminum Argon 18 frame that took a beating from the other bikes on a hitch rack while on a road trip.
(The damage to the Argon and my Electra cruiser are two reasons why I now use Thule's T2.)

I've read though a bunch of threads about painting and powder coating. CyclArt, Spectrum Powderworks and others may be very similar in their finished products, I just don't have any experience with frame refinishing. I don't want to spend any more than I have to and I'm fine with a solid color and no decals as long as it looks decent. I can paint with a spray can as well as the next guy, but I don't want the Argon to look like the paint was applied with a broom. :cool:

Do you have an opinion or recommendation?

[Germany_chris]

Local powder coater for the frame

Local printer/ebay for the decals..high res pick of the decals should be all the printer needs.

[sbparker31]

I have done both with my bikes.

Powdercoat Pros:

-Quick and easy (local powdercoating shop)
-Powdercoat shop will typically sandblast the frame to prepare for paint
-Ultradurable finish, all the colors under the rainbow including many metallics and sparklys
--No cure time to worry about
--fairly inexpensive -- there is a paint shop here in San Diego that will sandblast and powdercoat a bike frame in a single color for $80. Results are great.

Powdercoat cons:
--Typically limited to a single color
--Color "depth" not that great

"Wet" Paint Pros:
--Unlimited designs and colors, depends on your masking ability and spraying ability (or amount of money you have to spend if you take it to a pro)
--Beautiful color depth as paint is applied in many stages (primer followed by color followed by pearl/metallics followed by clear coat)


"Wet" Paint Cons:
--much more expensive in time and labor
--each paint stage requires wet sanding between coats for best results
--paint needs to cure for several weeks (if not months) or you'll be sorry


I have done projects where I had a frame powdercoated in flat black to serve as a primer for "wet" paint. This works great.

It is possible to get good results with a rattle can. However, you need to use the two stage spray paint found in an auto paint supply house -- get a good primer, follow it with a stage one base coat color, followed by a clear coat. wet sand after the primer, and in between coats of clear. Use at least 3 or 4 coats of clear.

[false_Aest]

Just do a local powder coat.

like others have said:

durable.
can be cheap.
lots of colors
etc

also, it's supposedly better for the environment.

make sure to go to your powdercoater with an open mind. if they don't have a color in stock they might charge you $50-$100 to order that "custom" color.

you can get crazy awesome masked off stuff but just like wet paint, the price will go up and up and up and up.

[eddief]

but attempt to find a coater who knows and likes to do a good job on bikes. just because a coater can do black powder on steel fences does not mean they will pay any attention to the little holes and nooks and crannies on your bike frame.

[SteveFrench]

check out sugarcoat boston.

[Frankwurst]

Functional, tough and nice: Powdercoat
Functional, durable and pretty: Paint
:beer:

[bironi]

Powder coat is great. I've done one local and two with Spectrum. The local was new to doing bikes about 12 years ago. Did a good job that held up (a friend's wife still rides the frame), but he did not know about what should be masked in the process.

Spectrum knows bikes. Great work and service. My only additional advice is that if you want to see good definition on lug work, paint is better. White is also a challenge for powder coat, it requires a thicker application to cover.

[Peter P.]

Powdercoating is durable and inexpensive, relative to wet paint. There are limitations to what you can do with powdercoating, artistry-wise.

Visit various powdercoaters to see how sophisticated they are. I brought some lawn furniture to a local powdercoater that did a lot of sophisticated manufacturing and commercial work. When I asked if they could powdercoat bike frames, they started talking blueprints and process sheets. Clearly, that outfit would pay attention to thread masking etc. once you wrote it down. Also, in the lobby they had samples of custom car and motorcycle parts they had done. This gave me confidence they could handle a bicycle just fine.

Wet paint offers more artistic options but is not quite as durable as powdercoat. It's also more expensive; I'd say roughly twice the cost of powdercoating.

I have a lugged steel frame that was powdercoated by Cyclart. They protected all the threads and other important spots. They did a decent job and the price was reasonable. My custom mountain bike frame was powdercoated and it even has a clear coat over the decals. Like another poster said, if you want a color other than what's in stock, you'll likely pay an upcharge.

So it sounds like you don't need a fancy paint job or decals. I'd say powdercoating would be ideal but I'd find a shop that has experience with bike frames and know what to mask or are willing to work from B+W photos you can mark up showing what stays paint free.

[bozman]

Spectrum can do pretty much anything. Powder coat or wet paint. I had them powder coat a 13-year old Lemond frame and it came out better than when I bought it. Call them and start asking questions.

[avalonracing]

+1 on a powdercoat firm that knows bikes. I had a part of my 4Runner powdercoated in black by an dirt cheap, local firm there were a few small marks where they "hung it" to coat it. When I asked about it the manger said, "Well, we had to hang it somehow to paint it" and that I should just "Use a black Sharpie™ to touch it up.

No biggie as it was an unimportant part and the work was dirt cheap but it someone said that about a bike frame I'd tell them to redo it or give me my money back. Then again, I wouldn't take my bike to a dirt cheap place.

[zennmotion]

A powdercoater who doesn't know bikes can make a real mess of things that not only looks like crap but can require an expensive fix (reaming seat tube, chasing BB threads, drilling out cable stops etc. There are lots of possible cost cutting short cuts, so lots of variance in cost- you get what you pay for. FWIW, I've done a few rattle can jobs that came out pretty well, but it takes patience, time and a little practice. And the final result is much softer and prone to chips and dings, but it can look OK. The only drawback to (good quality) powdercoating is not being able to powder a carbon fork- I like matching forks. But one way I've done this on a budget is to rattle can the fork and get the powder guys to match the paint color- good ones can get pretty close depending on how picky you are and staying with basic colors, darks are probably easier to match. We're lucky here in the Northern VA/DC area to have Figure Finishers in Manassas- they do excellent work at a decent price- certainly less expensive than Spectrum and they really like doing bikes. This is where several of the the local LBS shops send their work. They even advertise a pick up service from the train station for car-less bike customers! I'd give them a call to talk about shipping. To underline the point about quality, check out these pics from their website of powder jobs done badly, then you can link to their bike gallery.
http://figurefinishing.com/?page_id=1510

[rccardr]

+100 on Figure LLC.

Len McCreary has done about 20 frames for me for build-to-order customers, both aluminum and steel (some of the bikes in his photo gallery are my work).

Every one has been, well, perfect. No runs, no buggered threads, no thin spots- perfect. Len's a cyclist himself, and the attention to detail shows.

[Bob Ross]

Functional, tough and nice: Powdercoat
Functional, durable and pretty: Paint


How do you differentiate between "tough" and "durable" ?

[vjp]

There may be issues with powder coating heat treated aluminum, or so I have heard.

vjp

[cincicycles]

I had my Indy Fab repainted with powder by Spectrum and it looks amazing. Black and White double flame paint job. I would upload a pic, but I'm at work right now. Around $425 for a double flame is ridiculously inexpensive. IF would have been about $800 for that. They would have used liquid paint, which adds to the cost, but I wanted powder for my MTB because it is more durable. :beer:

[HJR]

This has been a very interesting topic. Thanks to all who posted.

[Bob Loblaw]

I heard that too, but did some investigating and apparently it's not true. It only applies to heat treated aluminum, and only if you reheat the aluminum to more than double the 180 degrees it takes to do a powdercoat.

Magnesium, apparently, really shouldn't be powdercoated because it can ignite. Burning magnesium is bad. :no:

BL

There may be issues with powder coating heat treated aluminum, or so I have heard.

vjp

[InspectorGadget]

After speaking with Len at Figure Finishing, I'm done looking. For a very reasonable $155 I can have the Argon powdercoated by somebody that knows what they're doing. For an addtional $30 I can choose from any of a gazillion available colors (http://ebmhost13.estylez.net/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;MULTI_ITEM_SUBMIT).

I'm also relieved to hear that powdercoating a heat treated frame isn't an issue.

[msl819]

Was $155 for a one color option? Also what is the turn around time for a frame to be coated at Figure Finishing?

[Germany_chris]

After speaking with Len at Figure Finishing, I'm done looking. For a very reasonable $155 I can have the Argon powdercoated by somebody that knows what they're doing. For an addtional $30 I can choose from any of a gazillion available colors (http://ebmhost13.estylez.net/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;MULTI_ITEM_SUBMIT).

I'm also relieved to hear that powdercoating a heat treated frame isn't an issue.

Thats a good price!! I pay more than that probably because there busy doing oe work..For me it's 200 for a single color (any color), 230 for 2, chrome lugs cost 50 to keep chrome and decals are 40. Thats euro

[InspectorGadget]

Was $155 for a one color option? Also what is the turn around time for a frame to be coated at Figure Finishing?
One color. I didn't even ask about anything more complicated, but for an extra $30, maybe I should go for something with a little more sex appeal. Turn time was days, not weeks. Len was probably rolling his eyes while we were talking, but he was super nice. Mr. Brown will be taking the Argon away for a new powdercoat next week.

[InspectorGadget]

I'm sending the Argon 18 to Len at Figure Finishing today!

I am excited to see the finished product.

[Acotts]

With all the auto/moto parts going carbon, are powder coaters able to do a carbon bike?

[cincicycles]

No, they have to prep the carbon to receive a primer base, then liquid paint. The carbon bits can't go in the oven.

[Acotts]

So just liquid on Carbon. Cool.

[djdj]

Has anyone here had FigureFinishing paint a carbon frame? Thanks. :)

[ultraman6970]

Maximus got a powder coating job from them and was pretty good.

U can't powder coat carbon man, i believe those guys only do powder, they dont do wet paint or at least not in a full bike but you can always ask.

If you are in NVA i can help you to paint your carbon frame. Probably the cheapest for you, I would love to offer my skills but have no idea what do you want to do also :D

Wet paint with a super good painter, a famous one can be easy over 500 bucks because of the labor involved, believe me there is a lot of hours involved. As for paint if you use the right paint the thing can get ready to be used in 3 days w/o any problem.

PM me if you need help.

This is something i did...

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j426/ultraman6970/DSCF0242-1.jpg

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j426/ultraman6970/DSCF0241-----.jpg

[djdj]

Thanks. Their site says they do carbon with "liquid paint"; they have one example (a Trek) shown in their gallery that looks very well done. I was just wondering if anyone here had experience with them doing that. Yours looks great, but I don't have the confidence/skill/time to attempt it myself -- with or without help. :o

[maunahaole]

Pretty sure that carbon can't be powder coated. Powder coat works by electrostatic application of the powder to the frame. One pole of DC is attached to the frame, the other to the powder. The powder is an epoxy-based substance. The oven melts it in place. The electric comes into play as it makes all the open spots get covered with powder. Since the plastic of a crabon frame cannot conduct, the powder wont apply properly.

Because of the electrostatic process, powder can look lumpy over detail and sharp edges, like lugs. It attracts along the magnetic field lines, which are different on sharp corners as opposed to flat surfaces.

[Olmo]

I heard that too, but did some investigating and apparently it's not true. It only applies to heat treated aluminum, and only if you reheat the aluminum to more than double the 180 degrees it takes to do a powdercoat.

Magnesium, apparently, really shouldn't be powdercoated because it can ignite. Burning magnesium is bad. :no:

BL

Are we sure about this? I've heard powdercoating is done between 350 and 410 degrees?

[ultraman6970]

If they ask like 500 bucks to do it and you want to do it and need help let me know i can help you out.

Cheers

Thanks. Their site says they do carbon with "liquid paint"; they have one example (a Trek) shown in their gallery that looks very well done. I was just wondering if anyone here had experience with them doing that. Yours looks great, but I don't have the confidence/skill/time to attempt it myself -- with or without help. :o