I have a real deep internal issue

[Jack Brunk]

that some of you will understand. I went into the cycling abyss and went 29er single speed off road and tonight I had a real come too (cycling god now I understand moment) about my place. There is nothing like having only one gear and being in a place where you only have 2 options. Either ride or walk. My effort tonight against riders half my age was enough to tell me that I am a real single speeder in the mountains. I think I know what a real serious cocaine addict might feel when their almost at their high. The guys tonight may become SS'ers.

[Louis]

There is nothing like having only one gear and being in a place where you only have 2 options. Either ride or walk.

Interesting.

So does this mean that most folks use gears as a crutch, and if they were really, really, really willing to push harder, they could do even better with more that just one gear? (Since I assume that overall, psychological limits aside, more gears have to be more efficient than just one.)

Edit: I assume you're also forced to improve your technique.

[Steve in SLO]

Nice epiphany, Jack.
I am in the nidst of building a niner one-9 with a rigid fork now. I can't wait to maintain momentum.

[Peter B]

that some of you will understand. I went into the cycling abyss and went 29er single speed off road and tonight I had a real come too (cycling god now I understand moment) about my place. There is nothing like having only one gear and being in a place where you only have 2 options. Either ride or walk. My effort tonight against riders half my age was enough to tell me that I am a real single speeder in the mountains. I think I know what a real serious cocaine addict might feel when their almost at their high. The guys tonight may become SS'ers.

It is a very cool feeling Jack. And it's why some folks do white drugs. Your method is healthier. I too like blowing past the gearlies and cleaning a pitch formerly walked. Great for you legs and lungs and ego too.

Now that you've had this epiphany and found your one true calling, perhaps I can help liberate you from some more of that road flotsam now gathering dust in your garage. You know, help you build a slush fund for the upcoming custom SS 29er Peg and Crumpton and Firefly and Strong and Eriksen and Alliance and Spooky and Potts/Castellano and Baum and Huckleberry and......

But seriously, have fun out on the trails Jack!! :beer:

[gearguywb]

Those moments are rare but they open up a world.

I always said my SS was actually a three speed: 1. Sit down and pedal, 2. Stand up and pedal, 3. Get off and push

[BillG]

What gearing are you using?

[rugbysecondrow]

Interesting.

So does this mean that most folks use gears as a crutch, and if they were really, really, really willing to push harder, they could do even better with more that just one gear? (Since I assume that overall, psychological limits aside, more gears have to be more efficient than just one.)

Edit: I assume you're also forced to improve your technique.

Yes, I think many riders use the extra gears as a crutch. Of course not all do, but when working of up a hill, it is much to easy to take the easy way out. This is no different than on the road as well. I think your purpose for MTBiking drives the answer as well. Roadies (which I am as well) are often concerned with times, splits, speed etc, and I think most roadies use a wider array or gears than most MTBikers use. This is a driver for the 1X9 or the SS setups you see today. Also, and this is not to be overlooked, there is little to no efficiency when your gear breaks on the trail, hence a SS setup.
Also, the SS feels more efficient because you are not running the chain through the RD and it is snappier and more responsive when riding hills.


I have sold my geared MTB. I realized that everytime I pulled out a MTB to go have fun, it was my SS, so now my SS is my only MTB and I am good with that. My SS is a simple Redline Monocog Flight, and it is a blast to ride.

[jvp]

My only mtn. bike is a fully rigid raleigh xxix'r, which I really enjoy, especially
on "flow-ey" trails. I don't really do the hard technical stuff anymore (I don't want to explore the limits of my health coverage), also I've found that rocky and rooty trails are fun up to a point, eventually the base of my thumbs start getting sore. Anyone in the raleigh nc area should check out trail 286, it is 8-10 miles of perfect 29r terrain!
Also, I run 32/20 around here, what do ya'll run?

[Gummee]

I used to commute from one side of NoVA (Alexandria) to the other (Fairfax Circle) via fixed gear. Its amazing what you can get up in *that gear* when you don't have a choice!

I set up my FG at 42x17 and rode up and down some fairly decent hills.

Haven't tried SS off-road yet tho.

M

[BillG]

I used to commute from one side of NoVA (Alexandria) to the other (Fairfax Circle) via fixed gear. Its amazing what you can get up in *that gear* when you don't have a choice!

I set up my FG at 42x17 and rode up and down some fairly decent hills.

Haven't tried SS off-road yet tho.

M

It's a lot harder on an SS MTB because the dirt or gravel is loose so it's often hard to stand. Totally fun though.

[jpw]

I think people use gears to keep their knees healthy.

[ultraman6970]

Interesting posting.

Well many people use gears thinking that the bike is a 30 gears gearbox 18 wheeler truck, so each 30 seconds if it feels heavier or the slope changed like 0.5 degrees they will change gears again and again and again, its just retarded! (no offense please ok?)

Back in the day when i started the sport we had 5 gears clusters and we had to be really careful to put the right ones or you could be dead or simply SUCK IT UP LIKE A MAN!!!!!!! In a matter of fact in my junior league the gears were regulated so we couldn't go over 50x16, so for that we had a 16-19 (4 cogs) freewheel, then at 17 y/o u were able to use whatever u wanted.

People had better spin technique back in the day in a matter of fact in junior leagues from 12 to 16 y/o at least here in the area i have not seeing kids doing fix gear or single speed with very light multiplications to just work those legs out and learn cadence and to simply "suck it up". By the opposite it just gives me the chills seeing 14 y/o kids riding with 53x14 for example just cranking it w/o any logical pattern in their pedaling.

Technically speaking you can climb perfectly using 42x17 or 18, but somehow the market has played a factor to make people to think that more is needed. Well u have to consider also that in pro racing (a level that many of us wont be in ever, many wont be able to match a "good" junior racer ever also) their spin and power capabilities are just insane. I bet even pettachi could drop many of us (self proclaimed climbers aswell) going uphill w/o any problem and he is not even a darn climber. Back in the day I was a tracker and with weekend warriors groups i was having a blast dropping guys uphill for example (hurt a lot tho, i have to recognize that), or keeping myself sucking wheel at 27+ mph using 42x16 or 52x18. Tracker racers bad customs, spin and spin and barely use the gears.

I'm happy the OP discovered single speed, that's what is all about in my opinion. Here in the WOD trail for example, it goes up and down but that trail can be done completely with one gear. Soon the op will notice that his pedaling technique and skills in the road had improved, probably he will get more assertive using the gears. I always advice this... "if you know the hill will get worse later just leave 1 or 2 gears for later and try to keep an steady pace even if it hurts a little bit, later will be needed."

Good for you op.

[Mikej]

I have the same feeling, except with 27 gears.

[bart998]

I rode a SS to Pilot Hill once up Salmon Falls road. My rear derailleur cable broke and I was forced to ride a 42X13 (six speed). I was determined to finish the ride. I was 19 and too stubborn to turn around. I don't think I will do that again.

[redir]

I used to ride a single speed mountain bike but I switched back to gears. I did ok on an SS bike in the mountains that I live in. I chose a climbing gear for the most part because I don't like to descend fast anyway, I mostly coast. But for me gears are worth it on the fire roads and otherwise fast single track. In races, no single speeder will beat me :D Not even my friend who is a cat 1 on the road but races a single speed in the mountains. Gears will always be superior, sorry I know the truth hurts :p

[Gummee]

I rode a SS to Pilot Hill once up Salmon Falls road. My rear derailleur cable broke and I was forced to ride a 42X13 (six speed). I was determined to finish the ride. I was 19 and too stubborn to turn around. I don't think I will do that again.Have you been told about the mtn biking tip for broken der. cables?

Well, whatcha do is undo a water bottle cage bolt and wrap the cable around that in the gear in which you wanna ride then reinstall the bolt. Yeah, yer SS-ing it, but its not your small cog.

M

[sc53]

I used to commute from one side of NoVA (Alexandria) to the other (Fairfax Circle) via fixed gear. Its amazing what you can get up in *that gear* when you don't have a choice!

I set up my FG at 42x17 and rode up and down some fairly decent hills.

Haven't tried SS off-road yet tho.

M
I live in Alexandria and cannot envision a good way to get from here to Fairfax Circle on a bike! DON'T tell me you rode down Rts 7 or 50! :help:

[RPS]

Technically speaking you can climb perfectly using 42x17 or 18, but somehow the market has played a factor to make people to think that more is needed. Well u have to consider also that in pro racing (a level that many of us wont be in ever, many wont be able to match a "good" junior racer ever also) their spin and power capabilities are just insane. I bet even pettachi could drop many of us (self proclaimed climbers aswell) going uphill w/o any problem and he is not even a darn climber. Back in the day I was a tracker and with weekend warriors groups i was having a blast dropping guys uphill for example (hurt a lot tho, i have to recognize that), or keeping myself sucking wheel at 27+ mph using 42x16 or 52x18. Tracker racers bad customs, spin and spin and barely use the gears.
We can’t simply blame the marketing guys because many of us have found our own climbing limits using gears much lower than 42/18. When that happens it’s either walk more often or install deeper gearing.

And for what it’s worth, pros don’t normally race on roads that are as steep as some we encounter on a regular basis. Not to mention many of us weigh 50 percent more, are twice as old, have half the power, etc….

IMO we don’t have to bash gearing to enjoy or praise single or fixed.

[Jack Brunk]

Thanks guys and yes most here understand my feelings as well. I also think that there's a level of suffering that's completely different on the SS. Right know I'm running a 22 cog rear and either a 32,33 or soon to try a 34 tooth Rotor Q ring depending on terrain. I'm doing the High Cascade 100 mountain bike race in Bend Oregon next month and will run either the 32 or 33 chain ring depending on what I find pre race.

[jh_on_the_cape]

Both are fun. It depends on where you live and how you like to ride. To say one is a crutch or not good is... retarded!

I once spent a weekend at Kingdom Trails with a buddy. We rode almost every trail, like 75 miles of singletrack in a day and a half.

I was on a SS 29er. He was on a Turner Highline which is a big burly 35+ pound freeride bike. We swapped back and forth and both were just totally fun.

What is nice is to realize that almost anything is rideable on a SS. What does stink on a SS is any flat road section more than a mile or so.

[Fixed]

zen moment ,enlightenment
cheers

[Dekonick]

After riding with Rugby in the dirt around here, I need the gears where he manages to use only one. It is a matter of knowing your safe limits... I pushed once on a fixed gear - rode a 39x12 fixed on a 20 mile ride around Ellicott City. I could barely walk the next day... my knees were screaming. I think I will stick with gears and enjoy riding while being envious of y'all on 1x rigs... I like riding fixed, but now reserve that for rolling to flat terrain. :o

Getting old sucks... but I am going to enjoy it as much as I can! :D

[zap]

snip

- rode a 39x12 fixed on a 20 mile ride around Ellicott City.

great gear for illchester repeats.

[rugbysecondrow]

snip



great gear for illchester repeats.


There is no gear that is great for Illchester. :help:

My motivator for that hill is that it is likely harder to walk than ride.

[Gummee]

I live in Alexandria and cannot envision a good way to get from here to Fairfax Circle on a bike! DON'T tell me you rode down Rts 7 or 50! :help:IIRC it was down Eisenhower, up to Duke St, and across on Little River Tpk... Down the big hill at Pickett to Ffx Circle

So, yeah, I guess I didn't ride 50, but it wasn't the best situation regardless.

Ya gotta remember tho, it was 95-97 and I wasn't due in to PBS till 1000 so I missed *most* of the traffic. (that and I was young, hard-headed, and slightly stoopit) I don't remember any problems going in, but coming home, I got cut off and shoulder-blocked a Range Rover at the shopping center at the top of the hill. The $#%#$-er never did stop to see whether I was OK or not.

M

[Dekonick]

There is no gear that is great for Illchester. :help:

My motivator for that hill is that it is likely harder to walk than ride.

Yeah - IT should be named Pukechseter... although the Ill is appropriate...

[HenryA]

I love this.
Sounds like some young pups got a spanking from an old dog.

[Bob Loblaw]

Never done it off-road, but my winter/rain road bike is set up with a 39 x 15, and while I'm not giving up my geared bikes, I love the SS. It changes everything. Rides you know well become completely different experiences when you can't shift.

The best is group rides. Non-believers are always amazed when I pass them on a hill, either going up at 45 RPM or going down at 170.

It's great for off-season training. It forces you out of your 80-95 RPM comfort zone. You're either gutting it out up a hill or spinning like mad going down, so you build strength and learn to spin smoothly in the same workout. 40 miles feels like 60, and 60 miles feels like a hundred.

BL

[maximus]

This posting deepens my lust for a SSCX...

maybe its time to bit the bullet.

[oldpotatoe]

After riding with Rugby in the dirt around here, I need the gears where he manages to use only one. It is a matter of knowing your safe limits... I pushed once on a fixed gear - rode a 39x12 fixed on a 20 mile ride around Ellicott City. I could barely walk the next day... my knees were screaming. I think I will stick with gears and enjoy riding while being envious of y'all on 1x rigs... I like riding fixed, but now reserve that for rolling to flat terrain. :o

Getting old sucks... but I am going to enjoy it as much as I can! :D

Had a fixie Moots, rode that for a couple of winters but was so limited in where I could go, just put on a cheapie RD and expanded where I could ride. Plus I looked silly in my daughter in laws skinny black jeans.

Don't ride in the dirt but for me, gears are good.

[AngryScientist]

thanks to this post, i will be riding fixed today!

[ericspin]

Jack, I have read this thread several times and it has sparked an interest in rebuilding a SS ride. I have a great frame laying around so I have the platform to start. I pulled the parts off the SS to build up my Rock Lobster Alfina that I have a blast on around town. Anyway, was curious what brand of drivetrain components you run on your SS. I have always been a White Industries guy but am thinking maybe something different could be fun. I have been doing some research into the Lefty fork and it seems the Project 321 dealio may be the way to go. Am I right about this? Also, while I'm being curious…..tell us a little about the frame you were riding. And lastly, how about Lefty specific hubs…..what do you like? Look forward to your response.

Eric

[DRZRM]

Just spent 9 days in Fort Collins, CO with my rigid S&S coupled SS (well I have a White Industries Dos so I can ride the 5 miles to the trail in 38-16 and then drop to 35-19 to ride trails once I get to the range). Put a couple hundred miles of SS on for the first time in a long while. It's a 26 inch wheeled bike, and I'm definitely not in the shape Jack is (nor am I likely to ever be) to have that kind of epiphany, but there is something very cool about riding the gear you have on the trails you are on. I have not given up on geared MTBs though.

[Jack Brunk]

Jack, I have read this thread several times and it has sparked an interest in rebuilding a SS ride. I have a great frame laying around so I have the platform to start. I pulled the parts off the SS to build up my Rock Lobster Alfina that I have a blast on around town. Anyway, was curious what brand of drivetrain components you run on your SS. I have always been a White Industries guy but am thinking maybe something different could be fun. I have been doing some research into the Lefty fork and it seems the Project 321 dealio may be the way to go. Am I right about this? Also, while I'm being curious…..tell us a little about the frame you were riding. And lastly, how about Lefty specific hubs…..what do you like? Look forward to your response.

Eric
Hey Eric,

Sounds like a great idea since you have a frame hanging around looking for some love. I'm using the new E13 single speed cross country cranks. Their built around a 30mm spindle with external bearings so you get the benefit of the BB30, PF30 BB's with a standard bottom bracket shell. I'm running 32,33 tooth Renthol chain rings and have a new 34 tooth Rotor SS Q ring to try out after I return from Bend next month. For a chain I'm using a Sram PC890 8 speed chain. It's a high quality chain and about 6 oz's lighter that a 3/32 single speed chain. For my rear cogs I'm using custom titanium cogs(20,21,22T) made by Homebrewed Components. Dan makes outstanding cogs and chain rings in Aluminum, steel and titanium.
I'm riding a Black Sheep 29er titanum along with a Full titanium faith fork. Running I9 crest wheels, Formula R1 brakes, Enve Riser 710mm carbon bar, ergon team series carbon bar ends, Ashima Airotor 160mm rotors. Fully loaded at 18.5 pounds built to ride epic ultra distance mountain bike races.
Lastly the lefty fork would be a great addition to your frame. Jake and the people at Project321 really have their act together with their products for the Lefty fork. My new Black Sheep Highlight ST will have a lefty head tube for front suspension. It will be a single speed full suspension rig set up just like my full rigid Black Sheep.

[ericspin]

Jack, thanks for the thorough rundown of the bike and its components. I love hashing all this stuff out in my mind. In fact I'm not sure which I like better…….the hunt or the final ride. Sounds like an amazingly sweet ride. Now the decision for me is whether to put my CDA up in the classifieds to stimulate some funds for this new build. Guess it doesn't hurt to list it and see. Thanks again for all of the info on this bike. Ride it in good health!

[forrestw]

that some of you will understand. I went into the cycling abyss and went 29er single speed off road and tonight I had a real come too (cycling god now I understand moment) about my place. There is nothing like having only one gear and being in a place where you only have 2 options. Either ride or walk. My effort tonight against riders half my age was enough to tell me that I am a real single speeder in the mountains. I think I know what a real serious cocaine addict might feel when their almost at their high. The guys tonight may become SS'ers.

That's awesome, I can relate and will (starting w/ my first non-fixed ride of the season)

I'd had a lousy winter and only managed half the training miles I'd planned on, still a respectable number and all fixed-gear but I came into this spring feeling a bit behind the curve.

A new kid (25-28, I'm 55) joined our 2x weekly morning rides this season, first day I rode with him he made a stony face, didn't talk and went off the front. I couldn't resist, as we got to where we are out of traffic and the group speeds up I sat on his wheel and then stomped it when we hit 'the hill' left him far behind. Later in the week I let him have the hill, just paced where I was comfortable.

Didn't see him for awhile but a couple of weeks ago, 2 days after a hard century in the NH Whites, I'd brought the fixed gear because I had to get to the lab/work immediately after the ride. Same kid was there, this time I shared the pulling, the kid jumped when we got to the hill, I passed him right after the first steep section and worked hard to stay there through the top.

Interestingly, for the remainder of the ride he was now chatty, we enjoyed a lively conversation.

I LOVE riding fixed and I do get a kick from occasionally ripping the legs off of younger, geared riders with it :-)