question....

[jerk]

any of you kids have any pictures of gerolsteiner's bikes from eindhoven?
can't find any.
thanks,
jerk

[weisan]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/jun05/protourttt05/nld-gero-83.jpg

http://www.protourcycling.com/images/photopage_TTT/TTT_05.jpg

[Climb01742]

i think i know where you're going, senor. just this past saturday i asked someone in a position to know and was told that they were definitely on specializeds...

also was told an interesting levi tidbit...he's 110% committed to taking on lance at the tour...he's dropped his weight from 138 to 128...

[bostondrunk]

The tubes on them (skinny top tube and head tube area) looks an awful lot like other pics I've seen of Michael Rich on a Wilier (I think) marked frame....

This pic is marked 2005 (actually marked with yesterdays date, me thinks):

http://de.sports.yahoo.com/050620/27/4jcv.html

[Dr. Doofus]

rip off and duplicate

[Roy E. Munson]

think i know where you're going, senor. just this past saturday i asked someone in a position to know and was told that they were definitely on specializeds...

Like maybe an employee of Specialized? :D

[sspielman]

I guess they *could* be Specializeds....after all, outsourced is outsourced be it Taiwan or Germany.....

[Dr. Doofus]

specialized by walser

pinarello by pegoretti

huffy by serotta

and when the doof gets 50 million and an army of lawyers and buys the rights to the name and commits a veritable sin with some slave-labor subcontracting because after all it was done to Masi and thus drives the artisan builders of the world to conspire to put him to the end he justly deserves:

nagasawa by giant (tig welded 6000-series AL...yeah, baby)

[jerk]

i think i know where you're going, senor. just this past saturday i asked someone in a position to know and was told that they were definitely on specializeds...

also was told an interesting levi tidbit...he's 110% committed to taking on lance at the tour...he's dropped his weight from 138 to 128...


those are definatly walsers. the jerk really wanted to check out the aerobars. notice they don't have any? it's weird. gerolsteiner crushed at the ttt and they were only using pursuit bars. weird.
jerk

[LegendRider]

those are definatly walsers. the jerk really wanted to check out the aerobars. notice they don't have any? it's weird. gerolsteiner crushed at the ttt and they were only using pursuit bars. weird.
jerk


That IS bizarre. I didn't notice until you pointed it out. Their bars are very narrow however, so that helps...

[bostondrunk]

those are definatly walsers. the jerk really wanted to check out the aerobars. notice they don't have any? it's weird. gerolsteiner crushed at the ttt and they were only using pursuit bars. weird.
jerk

Actually, isn't that the same type of bar that the italian squad used at the worlds (or something like that) in the early 90's? I remember comentators saying it allowed them to keep the lungs open easier by having the elbows further apart, etc.

Quote from an old deja post:
"Look at the Italian National time-trail team. They blew the doors off every-
one else last year or the year before and they were using TTT's new bars which look like they position the rider so he scoops air but are very comfortable. The bars are a trade-off between the old cow-horn style (which gives great control) and a true clip-on (which is the most aero, but for a team time trial, comprimises handling when riding oh so close to each other and in the corners). When it comes down to it, you have to position your self where your chest and back are comfortable to give you the most efficient performance without sacraficing comfort. "

[Ken Lehner]

those are definatly walsers. the jerk really wanted to check out the aerobars. notice they don't have any? it's weird. gerolsteiner crushed at the ttt and they were only using pursuit bars. weird.
jerk

Except that they're not only pursuit bars: they have armpads on risers.

[zap]

BD-yes, ttt bio arms from the early 90's.

Two of us here in Merryland did something similiar (but not nearly as narrow)when attempting sub 4 hr century (total time).

It works quite well when you get used to it. Took me about 2 months to get used to the long/low position and maintain it for 4 odd hours. But who said going fast is pain free.

[Climb01742]

and since it was a team tt, the need for absolute aero advantage is less, yes? each guy just tucks in behind the guy in front. vs an individual tt, where the aero bars are needed for the one rider to get as aero as possible. i have no idea if this is true, but it seems like at least a plausible explanation, maybe?

[Dr. Doofus]

also, the lead guy has the aero benefit of having the string behind him, so the advantage of aerobars would be slightly less (?)

[Ken Lehner]

also, the lead guy has the aero benefit of having the string behind him, so the advantage of aerobars would be slightly less (?)

The presence (or lack thereof) of a rider behind the lead rider has very, very little (as in nearly unmeasurable) effect on the lead rider, especially at the following distances typically seen in a road TTT.

[Dr. Doofus]

doof thought it was the "hull" thing...the longer the hull of a scull, the less drag on the front end...i.e. why its not as hadr to ride 30 at the front of a lineout as it is on your own...art doof wrong????

[Big Dan]

Come on people from South Caroliner know drafting........Tell them Doc...
I'm sorry but that position looks as comfortable as doing #2 standing up....... :p

[Ken Lehner]

doof thought it was the "hull" thing...the longer the hull of a scull, the less drag on the front end...i.e. why its not as hadr to ride 30 at the front of a lineout as it is on your own...art doof wrong????

You ever see a scull hull with 1-2 foot gaps spaced along its length?

I don't think it is harder to do 30mph solo than it is to do so at the front of a paceline; it takes the same number of watts. Getting to the front is easier in the paceline than solo.

[Dr. Doofus]

the presence of a rider behind -- even with a 1 or two foot gap -- still fills the eddy behind the rider (especially if the rider in question is named eddy), thus reducing the amount of watts needed to maintain the speed.

so, yes, 30mph at the front of a paceline is easier than 30mph on your own in a solo break. the benefit is not as great as that of the rider behind, but it is nontheless present.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/aerodynamics2.html

[DfCas]

For the rider in front,just as some aero wheels do well with a slight crosswind.

I don't remember the exact details,but this was worked out on Cycling Forum some years ago.

The rider in front always benefits,slightly,from a rider behind,and the benefit changes,depending on wind direction.

dan

[Dr. Doofus]

doof believes firmly in the penetrating idea that whoever is in front always benefits from rider behind

[saab2000]

Team trials are a female dog because you can only go as fast as the slowest rider, who is ready to puke at all times. But when they work and everyone is 'N Sync it is pretty neato.

I believe that the microscopic advantage of a trailing rider may be real. It becomes larger when you have 7 or 8 riders riding really closely together. The speeds that a good team can achieve is amazing.

[William]

doof believes firmly in the penetrating idea that whoever is in front always benefits from rider behind

It's called "getting a train going". The rider in front gets a benefit from the rest. The longer the train, the faster they can go....miniscule or not.

William

[Dr. Doofus]

doof has never participated in a "train," nor does he want to

not that there's anything wrong with that

[William]

doof has never participated in a "train," nor does he want to

not that there's anything wrong with that

;)

[William]

Drafting, which is also used by runners and bicyclists as well as race car drivers, is a term used to describe how two or more cars drive nose-to-tail in a single-file line. The advantage of this approach is that the cars share the same "pocket of air" allowing them to travel a few miles an hour faster than they would be able to if they were driving separately. The concept is also sometimes called slipstreaming because the front car opens up a "passageway" through the air that trailing cars can then travel through at higher speed.

This slipstream effect works in the following way. As a single car races around a track, it creates a "bubble" of high-density air in front of it and a bubble of low-density air behind. The difference in the pressure between these two air pockets creates drag, the force that impedes motion. This drag force limits the top speed the car can attain. But if a second car pulls up behind the first, the slipstreams created by the two merge so that the first car losses its aft bubble and the second car loses its front bubble. This effect reduces the drag force each car experiences and both are able to travel slightly faster.

W.

[DfCas]

doof believes firmly in the penetrating idea that whoever is in front always benefits from rider behind

Thats how they watch NASCAR races on TV in the South..

dan