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Keith A
06-01-2011, 01:54 PM
Have you guys seen this yet?
http://assets.espn.go.com/preview/May_31_Letter.pdf

Joachim
06-01-2011, 01:58 PM
"virtually every single one of these allegations was false". So which ones were not?

Pete Serotta
06-01-2011, 02:03 PM
I did view 60 minutes when Tyler was on there but this is the first I have heard of the letter. The Race was 10 years ago so why does this "hunt" come up now as "new"??? :crap: :crap:


Oh well, the monthly chemo is over today and tomorrw is :beer: PETE


The UCI should be running with doping not the USA unless we are looking at ALL sports :confused: :confused:

PETE

MattTuck
06-01-2011, 02:08 PM
60 minutes does some really good stories, and some really bad stories.

the hatchet job they did on audi back in the day was probably a low point. At the end of the day, they are a news magazine airing sort of 'mini-documentaries'... they have their angle and I don't think they purport to be purely delivering the news.

PaulE
06-01-2011, 02:11 PM
"virtually every single one of these allegations was false". So which ones were not?

"In the cold light of morning your story was either extraordinarily shoddy, to the point of being reckless and unprofessional, or a vicious hit-and-run job. In either case, a categorical onair apology is required."

So who's calling who shoddy at $1,000+ per hour? The lawyer is referring to the CBS 60 Minutes broadcast of May 22, 2001. That was an entirely different broadcast from the one CBS aired on May 22, 2011.

Of course, I don't know what was in the 2001 broadcast that was offensive to Lance.

Germany_chris
06-01-2011, 02:18 PM
That letter was far nicer than anything I would've written..

67-59
06-01-2011, 02:23 PM
"virtually every single one of these allegations was false". So which ones were not?

He appears to agree with the assertions that Lance donated the money to UCI, even though he disagrees that the intent was bribery.

johnnymossville
06-01-2011, 02:23 PM
I'm not a big Lance fan at the moment, but 60 minutes is a bunch of hacks.

norcalbiker
06-01-2011, 02:27 PM
It's all about rating.

Louis
06-01-2011, 02:29 PM
For CBS this is good news.

Bud_E
06-01-2011, 02:50 PM
60 minutes does some really good stories, and some really bad stories.

the hatchet job they did on audi back in the day was probably a low point. At the end of the day, they are a news magazine airing sort of 'mini-documentaries'... they have their angle and I don't think they purport to be purely delivering the news.

+1

I remember watching that Audi sudden acceleration segment and my internal BS meter was going nuts. I find 60 minutes to be entertaining and they raise awareness of important issues but they're manipulative sometimes. I don't always buy into what they're reporting without looking at other sources first.

BengeBoy
06-01-2011, 03:34 PM
The most important part of the letter -- to me -- is the part where they *don't* mention anything about George Hincapie.

They've attacked Tyler Hamilton. They've attacked the Swiss lab story.

Still nothing about the biggest part of the 60 Minutes story -- the fact that Hincapie allegedly has corroborated Hamilton's and Landis' stories about Lance.

In any case, SF Weekly is doing some of the best coverage of the Lance Armstrong investigation.

Their take on the apology letter is worth reading:

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/06/lance_armstrong_world_antidoping_agency_director_g eneral_david_howman.php

thegunner
06-01-2011, 03:38 PM
Oh well, the monthly chemo is over today and tomorrw is :beer: PETE

haha, congrats pete! almost missed this reading the other parts.

witcombusa
06-01-2011, 05:02 PM
Here's hoping CBS tells them they can kiss their ass.... :no:

akelman
06-01-2011, 05:46 PM
Oh well, the monthly chemo is over today and tomorrw is :beer:

Awesome. I'll raise a glass to you, Pete.

mcteague
06-01-2011, 07:19 PM
I tuned out "60 Minutes" long ago. Strikes 1-2-3 were runaway Audis - Mercury Amalgam fillings - Alar in Apples. It never occured to them that they should speak to actual engineers and scientists. Now I only watch when nothing else is on and they have a story that sounds interesting. NPR is a FAR more reliable news source. That said, I think Lance was doped to the gills. Just like all his team mates who got busted when they left the careful control of team LA.

Tim

MarleyMon
06-01-2011, 07:42 PM
"Via Electronic Mail"
you have got to be kidding
that is no more a serious legal document than this is.

and - hooray, Pete!

djg
06-01-2011, 09:16 PM
I did view 60 minutes when Tyler was on there but this is the first I have heard of the letter. The Race was 10 years ago so why does this "hunt" come up now as "new"??? :crap: :crap:


Oh well, the monthly chemo is over today and tomorrw is :beer: PETE


The UCI should be running with doping not the USA unless we are looking at ALL sports :confused: :confused:

PETE

Nice going Pete -- all the best.

maunahaole
06-01-2011, 09:28 PM
Oh well, the monthly chemo is over today and tomorrw is :beer: PETE


PETE


Lance is a tired topic.

PETESTRONG.

Red bracelets for all.

djg
06-01-2011, 09:47 PM
The most important part of the letter -- to me -- is the part where they *don't* mention anything about George Hincapie.

They've attacked Tyler Hamilton. They've attacked the Swiss lab story.

Still nothing about the biggest part of the 60 Minutes story -- the fact that Hincapie allegedly has corroborated Hamilton's and Landis' stories about Lance.

In any case, SF Weekly is doing some of the best coverage of the Lance Armstrong investigation.

Their take on the apology letter is worth reading:

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/06/lance_armstrong_world_antidoping_agency_director_g eneral_david_howman.php

Honestly, I've no idea what Lance might have done when or where, or what George might have said about it, but what could LA's lawyers have said about the supposedly leaked testimony from George? GH has said that he never spoke to 60 minutes about any of these matters and that he cannot discuss the content of his grand jury testimony, which he cannot. It would be nuts for LA's team to attack Hincapie based on this alone -- certainly at this stage of the game -- or to claim any first-hand knowledge of the content of GH's testimony.

Somebody reported something to 60 minutes, I reckon -- maybe somebody connected with the investigation, although we don't know that, and would hope not -- and maybe more or less accurately, although we don't know that, or have anything other than the 60 minutes account of the substance (but not text) of GH's testimony, to go on.

There are all sorts of possibilities here. One is that 60 minutes got it right, or roughly right. There are many, many more. The dodgiest I can think of is that an investigator floated a story to Hamilton suggesting all sorts of information received from former team mates, including GH, and that it's actually Tyler, or his doppelganger, who is the source of the news report. On this scenario, Tyler -- who cannot have any first-hand knowledge of George's testimony -- is just a dupe, among other things. But really, I'm just making this up. It's an unlikely possibility, and would represent the sketchiest possible reporting, but it is A possibility and none of us really has any idea which of indefinitely many possible stories here is true.

wc1934
06-01-2011, 10:13 PM
[QUOTE=Serotta_Pete]

Oh well, the monthly chemo is over today and tomorrw is :beer: PETE


Damn the torpedoes - full speed ahead Pete!

dd74
06-02-2011, 04:06 AM
The more I hear about Lance, the more I like Alberto Contador.

60 Minutes should have a segment on Andy Rooney's liver.

witcombusa
06-02-2011, 05:47 AM
The more I hear about Lance, the more I like Alberto Contador.



What's the difference?

He "get's to ride the Tour" this year because the hearing was magically postponed until Aug.......same old crap going on here.

Elefantino
06-02-2011, 07:19 AM
Lance doped.

So?


PS: Go, Pete!

Germany_chris
06-02-2011, 07:45 AM
and Candator doped,

There was lots of love for him on the other thread..

I think we excuse him because he's European.

LesMiner
06-02-2011, 08:05 AM
This 60 Minutes smear of Lance is no better than the smear 60 Minutes did on General Westmoreland. You would think that the CBS News and 60 Minutes staff would be more credible than to air a tired conspiracy theory. It has gotten to the point where it no longer matters if Lance doped or not. It is now just character assassination.

JMerring
06-02-2011, 08:46 AM
and Candator doped,

There was lots of love for him on the other thread..

I think we excuse him because he's European.

i'll be polite and say that he also conducts himself very differently than lance.

Fixed
06-02-2011, 08:52 AM
Awesome. I'll raise a glass to you, Pete.
cheers bro

Hardlyrob
06-02-2011, 09:30 AM
Agreed - Team PETESTRONG - Let's go RED!

witcombusa
06-02-2011, 09:39 AM
This 60 Minutes smear of Lance is no better than the smear 60 Minutes did on General Westmoreland. You would think that the CBS News and 60 Minutes staff would be more credible than to air a tired conspiracy theory. It has gotten to the point where it no longer matters if Lance doped or not. It is now just character assassination.

Well, since he clearly has NO character, there is nothing to assassinate.....

Germany_chris
06-02-2011, 09:41 AM
i'll be polite and say that he also conducts himself very differently than lance.

LOL here we go again..

As I stated in the past on another one of these threads

I like the fact that Lance treated the peloton like they were his underlings, because they were.

If he had not they would have done the same to him. If you read books about Americans playing at a highlevel of euro sports the same thing happens to all Americans.

It's time to leave dreamland and land back into the hard reality that euros don't love us. They are not going to play fair and they don't want us in there sport.

Chris

Fixed
06-02-2011, 09:55 AM
we build up heros to tear them down
the bigger they are the harder they fall
cheers

JMerring
06-02-2011, 10:06 AM
LOL here we go again..

As I stated in the past on another one of these threads

I like the fact that Lance treated the peloton like they were his underlings, because they were.

If he had not they would have done the same to him. If you read books about Americans playing at a highlevel of euro sports the same thing happens to all Americans.

It's time to leave dreamland and land back into the hard reality that euros don't love us. They are not going to play fair and they don't want us in there sport.

Chris

sigh. i don't even know where to begin, so i won't. one of us is living in a dreamland and it isn't me.

sc53
06-02-2011, 10:11 AM
YAY Pete! Good news! ps I love the "Petestrong" bracelet idea--BBD, another forum mass purchase undertaking? How about we order RoadID's in red reading "Petestrong" or "I love Handlebra" or "A glass of red: It's why we ride!"
:hello:

MattTuck
06-02-2011, 10:22 AM
i'll be polite and say that he also conducts himself very differently than lance.

Of the two, I'm surprised 'big tex' wasn't the one with the pistolero... :rolleyes:

Germany_chris
06-02-2011, 10:23 AM
sigh. i don't even know where to begin, so i won't. one of us is living in a dreamland and it isn't me.

Rmember, I... A. live here (europe) and B. am married to a european.

I'm going to buy you a beer a some point it would be a fun evening. :beer:

kgreene10
06-02-2011, 11:45 AM
The discussion of the Tour de Suisse testing results is fishy. 60 Minutes didn't report that Lance was positive for doping (the accusation that the Wash Post and Lance deny). They reported that the initial sample test was consistent with EPO use. Doesn't this just mean that the A sample tested abnormal but that it was either thrown out for some reason (contamination) or the B sample tested normal. Either way, the A sample could be abnormal with the overall outcome being no positive test. In other words, both 60 Min and Lance could be correct.

Am I wrong about how they do these tests or is no one reporting on them correctly?

54ny77
06-02-2011, 03:21 PM
I like Swiss Miss with marshmallows.

Pete Serotta
06-02-2011, 03:34 PM
A lot of truth below. National pride in Europe and even here is a first for many in their country.

I do not think all Europe hates us but when it comes to sports - - - all sports fans are passionate. (The USA included. :D )

PETE


LOL here we go again..

As I stated in the past on another one of these threads

I like the fact that Lance treated the peloton like they were his underlings, because they were.

If he had not they would have done the same to him. If you read books about Americans playing at a highlevel of euro sports the same thing happens to all Americans.

It's time to leave dreamland and land back into the hard reality that euros don't love us. They are not going to play fair and they don't want us in there sport.

Chris

michael white
06-02-2011, 03:48 PM
LOL here we go again..

As I stated in the past on another one of these threads

I like the fact that Lance treated the peloton like they were his underlings, because they were.

If he had not they would have done the same to him. If you read books about Americans playing at a highlevel of euro sports the same thing happens to all Americans.

It's time to leave dreamland and land back into the hard reality that euros don't love us. They are not going to play fair and they don't want us in there sport.

Chris

I think you're right. In every sports I've ever been associated with, you are supposed to drop, body slam, and taunt your opponent until they are exposed as pathetic girly-men. That's why you do it. It's nothing personal. Hell, our weekly burrito rides are like that. What are YOURS like?

JMerring
06-02-2011, 04:42 PM
maybe i'm missing the thrust of chris' argument, but aren't we talking about how some americans have turned on another american thereby resulting in an investigation by americans into wrongdoing by an american? or is it about an expose by an american news program into cheating by an american? apparently not.

if the euros hate americans so much, why not just bust all the americans? why cover up an 'adverse' test result from an american athlete? isn't alberto spanish? are you suggesting that prudhomme really wants alberto to race the tour? and does he (prudhomme) now (all of a sudden?) love vino?

and by saying "[i]f you read books about Americans playing at a high level of euro sports the same things happens to all americans," are you suggesting that americans need to cheat in order to compete at a high level in europe? or that europeans hate americans and will do anything to bring them down?

again, isn't this a witch hunt (i use that term very loosely) by americans, for americans?

there are a lot of stereotyped generalizations being sprinkled in with what, to me at least, are nonsensical arguments.

what's clear to me is that, nowithstanding definite ped use by both, alberto's not a jerk and lance is. i say that as a jewish african american who should, if the stereotyped generalizations held true, be predisposed towards the american and not the spaniard, but i'm not.

i hope to see the spaniard kick all manner of non-spanish arse (or should that be 'ass'? i'm so confused) in the upcoming tour.

Lifelover
06-02-2011, 04:43 PM
I think you're right. In every sports I've ever been associated with, you are supposed to drop, body slam, and taunt your opponent until they are exposed as pathetic girly-men. That's why you do it. It's nothing personal. Hell, our weekly burrito rides are like that. What are YOURS like?


True Dat! I want my sports hero talking as much trash as they can!

There is a GREAT 30 for 30 show on ESPN about Reggie Miller and his battle with the Knicks. I always loved Reggie because he was such a great trash talker.

If anyone is critical of Lance because of the way he talked amoungst his peers, they have never been any good at any real sport. Hell, the only reason to play Poker or Darts is to talk smack!

Germany_chris
06-03-2011, 02:27 AM
Never did I say hate, I said they don't love us. They would prefer us not to be there, and will make it obvious if your paying attention.

I'm not really a kind of indifferent to Lance, I much preferred Ulrich.

The excuse he wasn't a good sportsman, therefore fry him doesn't work for me, it really doesn't when it's reversed.

The only reason Condator is riding right now is his country let him go, why do you think that is? Because he's winning and bringing back some Spanish pride. He handed them plausable reason and they latched on.

Remember sports is about winning, not being pleasant or a good sportsman.

Chris

witcombusa
06-03-2011, 05:54 AM
Remember sports is about winning, not being pleasant or a good sportsman.

Chris


Here in lies the problem... :no:

Germany_chris
06-03-2011, 08:11 AM
Here in lies the problem... :no:


For you.. :no:

pmac
06-03-2011, 08:17 AM
I'm no fan of trash talking. Maybe that's part of why I like Nadal so much. You don't need to be a jerk to be a champion.

Lifelover
06-03-2011, 08:23 AM
I'm no fan of trash talking. Maybe that's part of why I like Nadal so much. You don't need to be a jerk to be a champion.

That's the great thing about sports (and life), if offers something for all of us.

JMerring
06-03-2011, 08:49 AM
Remember sports is about winning, not being pleasant or a good sportsman.

Chris

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Palmer, player, nicklaus, els, federer, nadal, Sampras, Alonso, mickelson, senna, Brady, etc.

Germany_chris
06-03-2011, 10:19 AM
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Palmer, player, nicklaus, els, federer, nadal, Sampras, Alonso, mickelson, senna, Brady, etc.

Never said they were, just thats not the point of playing the sport.

JMerring
06-03-2011, 10:25 AM
Never said they were, just thats not the point of playing the sport.

but you did say that contador is being excused because he's european. and i'm saying perhaps he's being excused in the public mind because he's not an arrogant self-serving hypocritical disloyal jerk.

indyrider
06-03-2011, 10:29 AM
but you did say that contador is being excused because he's european. and i'm saying perhaps he's being excused in the public mind because he's not an arrogant self-serving hypocritical disloyal jerk.

amen brother

Germany_chris
06-03-2011, 10:56 AM
but you did say that contador is being excused because he's european. and i'm saying perhaps he's being excused in the public mind because he's not an arrogant self-serving hypocritical disloyal jerk.

I said he's we, americans are excusing him because he's European. His countrymen are excusing him because of national pride.

Being nice does not excuse doping, if you percieve it as a problem.

Chris

witcombusa
06-03-2011, 12:55 PM
Never said they were, just thats not the point of playing the sport.


It was when I was a kid.....

The point? You mean teamwork, exercise, sportsmanship etc???

What's wrong with simply doing your best and being a decent person at the same time? The trash talk and general "attitude" now becoming the norm in pro sports is why I don't watch it. There are thankfully a few exceptions but I fear their days are numbered...

Germany_chris
06-03-2011, 05:25 PM
It was when I was a kid.....

The point? You mean teamwork, exercise, sportsmanship etc???

What's wrong with simply doing your best and being a decent person at the same time? The trash talk and general "attitude" now becoming the norm in pro sports is why I don't watch it. There are thankfully a few exceptions but I fear their days are numbered...

Yes, I agree their days are numbered.