4 bikes, 4 geometries, they all fit...

[SoCalSteve]

So, I got to thinking (could be dangerous) about custom fittings. (I know I might ruffle some feathers with this post, but, isnt that what this Forum and the Internet are all about? exchanging ideas, whether they are good, bad or just different???)

I have 4 bikes. 3 of the 4 purchased used on ebay and the 4th new direct from the US importer. None of them custom fit, only one of them a "custom" bike (and not custom for me). The other 3 stock geometries. And...

All 4 of them fit me fine. A bit of a set back seatpost on one, a bit longer stem on another.....But, they all fit really well.....Ok...

Here's the rub: I'm 6' 5" tall and have a 33" inseam. If that makes sense to you, I am a perfect candidate for a "custom" bike. But even with my long torsoed, short legged body, I can fit on stock geometry bikes. And fit comfortably. And do 100 mile bike rides without pain.

Who does really need a custom fitted bike? And, if I can fit myself on all 4 bikes, who needs a fitter? Granted, I am no racer, but I do quite a few centuries a year and I spend just about every Saturday coaching 20 or so Team in Training Participants (point being, I spend many 1,000's of miles on a bike every year).

Ok, 3 things got me thinking about this: 1.) Dave Kirk and Richard Sachs comments about KOPS (recent previous posting) 2.) I just finished a Coaching Seminar with the esteemed Arnie Baker,MD (if you dont know who he is, please go to his website www.arniebakercycling.com and check him out, you WILL be impressed). Anyway, he said that unless you are truly a weird size, that custom is not neccesary and #3.) I took the summer off to coach and train. One of my goals was to spend the $$ and get a custom fitting. For no other reason than just to do it because I never have. After thinking about my 4 bikes and how comfortable they all are, I see no reason to spend $$ on this.

Just one mans opinion (and thats just what it is, an opinion).

Steve

PS: My 4 bikes are (in no particular order):

1.) Stock 62 cm Hors Categorie with a 130 mm stem 62 x 60
2.) Seven Axiom "custom" 61 x 62.5 with a 110 stem
3.) Stock 62 CSI with a 130 mm stem 62 x 60
4.) Fondriest Carbon Lex Sloping top tube so..its like a 56 x 59.5 with a 120 mm stem

PSS: I just realized that 2 of my bikes are the same geometries with the same length stems (for what thats worth). I still dont see the point in custom and I still fit comfortably on many different (non-custom for me) bikes. Whats the point?

[dirtdigger88]

My take on custom from my own personal stand point- I have a fairly regular geometry on my bike- nothing that stands out as really being "custom" The problem is that I could not really find an off the shelf bike (in ti) with the geometry that I wanted-

I have found that in the 60cm range I was getting HT angles that I didnt want or really short top tubes- I could find bits and pieces of what I wanted on lots of bikes- but not everything in one- my custom isnt really a custom in the sence of some weird angles or tube lengths- I was just able to get everything I wanted in the bike that I wanted

for what it is worth- I fit just as well on my 57x57.5 lemond as I do on my 60 x 58.2 Legend-

Jason

[Big Dan]

Steve..are you wearing a hard hat????

Maybe you should................. :D

:fight:

[boulder_courier]

My guess is the "custom" Seven @ 61X62.5 is probably the bike you would be fitted with on the Serotta Size Cycle.

I 6'2 w/ a 33" inseam and I could find stock geometries (61X59) that I could ride comfortably, but I would have to put 14cm stems on them. I was fitted for a Serotta and my tt was lengthened by 2 cm (61X61), so I can use a 12cm stem, which I feel gives me much less flex than a 14cm stem.

I guess it's a matter of preference. I really felt more comfortable with a custom frame.

[csb]

what if one doesnt look odd, but feels odd, not like what say
a reptile skin texture feels like, but more like the feeling ya' get
when sumpin' spookys about to occur or just has?

[JasonF]

Steve makes some interesting points. I have owned many road bikes, none of which were custom-fitted to me.

My latest, a Concours 'cross frame, was built to be extremely stiff for a rider who weighed about 25 lbs. more than me. I find the bike to be perfectly comfortable, and I appreciate the incredible stiffness in the bb area. Any hint of a harsh ride gets dampened by decent tires and a suspension seatpost.

I will probably go full custom someday to see what it's like, and I would never knock something until I try it. But for now, I believe that any bike I pick up "around" 52 cm can be dialed to fit me well.

[Ginger]

I got into this discussion this weekend with someone who took offense at my custom bike. "There's nothing about you that I can see would require a custom bike."

You're fortunate that you can make that range of bikes work for you. You should be able to put a long stem on anything you can stand over and make it work.

;)

Actually, you really need to put pictures of the bikes up here...to get the full visual effect of all the different bikes and their visual appeal along with the fact that they fit you. :banana:

[eddief]

More power to you my man. I think if you can do all that riding and you are comfortable, the discussion turns academic after that.

I'm 5'11" and ride a 60 Rambouillet with a 9cm stem. All of my bikes are in this vicinity. However, the nod still goes to the custom Rex with slightly shorter top tube and slightly longer threadless stem. (2 tons of headtube)

I guess is some ways my quill stemmed bikes have shorter top tubes due to how much quill sticks out - which in turn brings the bars upward and backward.

That said, the Rambouillet off the rack is such a close second, I have a difficult time choosing.

I can't remember. I hope your bikes don't look too gooney. Just kidding.

[SoCalSteve]

I'd be more than happy to take pictures and post them on here, but it wold be moot (not Moots) as they all look VERY normal. Normal stem lengths, normal spacers, normal setbacks...I truly have a thing about aesthetics (my father was a architect and artist and I grew up around things...aesthetic)

Remember, I weigh $%#@..Ok, I dont weigh 200 lbs (more) and if I did anything weird, the bike components would probably break, or worse. Too much set back would break seatpost bolts, too many spacers and I could break a steerer tube, etc, etc, etc...

Why, given the dimensions that I stated, would you think that any of my bikes are out of proportion? Well, the only thing I could say is that I like my saddle close in height to my bars (but in looking at pictures in the Gallery, so do many people). Thats because I am not the most limber person and dont race. If you think thats out of proportion, well...

Oh, by the way, have you seen some "custom" bikes that TRULY look "gooney"? Your word, not mine.

Again, opinions, for what they are worth,

Steve

[eddief]

I really was joking about the gooney factor. That factor is in the mind of the beholder. You know I have been involved in heated discussions about aesthetics...to a fault.

But the honest answer to your question, based on my idea of aesthetics, I have seen a number of bikes that look gooney to me that could have had the same angles and contact points and been much more pleasing to my eye.

And others think those same things about my bikes. We likes what we likes.

I still find it interesting that you are 6 inches taller than I, and you ride bikes only 2 cm bigger. I'm probably less flexible than most.

[SoCalSteve]

Remember, I have super short legs and a very long torso....

So, a bike with a 60cm ST would work just fine for me, given the headtube being tall enough. But, the top tube is where it really matters to me (all torso, no legs, remember?).

Thats where my 60cm or longer TT's with a 120-130 stem come in to play.

Capice?

Steve

PS: You should see me at Mens Warehouse.. Thank G%d I only need to wear a suit at weddings, funerals and Bar Mitvahs.

[eddief]

yo copice!

My top tubes are 56.8 up to 58 all with 8,9 or 10 stems

[coylifut]

fit is only one aspect of custom

[e-RICHIE]

Who does really need a custom fitted bike? And, if I can fit myself on all 4 bikes, who needs a fitter? (cut) ...unless you are truly a weird size, that custom is not neccesary. (cut) Whats the point?


the point is that you're missing the point.
who ever said that the reason to have a frame
built was 'cuz you can't fit a stock bicycle from
the mall? that's a true throwback to the halcyon
days of bicycling magazine when writers would
invoke all this text about "...going to a builder
to be measured and picking out your angles and
deciding about which lugs windows to carve.
yada, yada, etecetera".

just because the concept of a frame, or more simply
put, the client, precedes the execution of the order,
that in itself does not constitute "custom" as in a
custom frame.

framebuilders do not exist to service the hard to
fit; if they did, they'd be ex-framebuilders!!!!!!!!!!
(that was 10 exclamation points).

framebuilders, in general, exist outside the lines of
conventional commerce. most that i know simply want
to "make things better" and NOT be constrained by
a time clock or a price point.

in many cases, you can tweak a mm here and and
2 minutes to an angle there to help a frame geometry
"cooperate" with an "uncooperating" body type. but
in the end, there are certain basic tenents of frame
and bicycle design that can't be shoved aside because,
if done, the bicycle simply won't work.

despite the regular use by many of the term "custom",
many frames built by framebuilders (as opposed to
those coming from industry) are really not that different
at all, geometry-wise. the difference is, more often than
not, in the quality level of he build, the tolerances met,
and to a small extent, the attention lavished on the
"finish work".

this is my off-duty opinion.

hey - thanks for reading.
e-RICHIE

[H.Frank Beshear]

Yea what richie-issimo said. banana-banana. red-twizzlers Frank

[Ginger]

And I guess...what is the point of the original statement other than a good weekend troll?

[e-RICHIE]

Yea what richie-issimo said. banana-banana. red-twizzlers Frank


yeah what h. frank beshear-issimo wrote.
and it'd all make even more sense if happy
hour did not run from 5 - 9pm tonite!!!!!!!!
(seven exclamation points...)

[dirtdigger88]

the point is that you're missing the point.
who ever said that the reason to have a frame
built was 'cuz you can't fit a stock bicycle from
the mall? that's a true throwback to the halcyon
days of bicycling magazine when writers would
invoke all this text about "...going to a builder
to be measured and picking out your angles and
deciding about which lugs windows to carve.
yada, yada, etecetera".

just because the concept of a frame, or more simply
put, the client, precedes the execution of the order,
that in itself does not constitute "custom" as in a
custom frame.

framebuilders do not exist to service the hard to
fit; if they did, they'd be ex-framebuilders!!!!!!!!!!
(that was 10 exclamation points).

framebuilders, in general, exist outside the lines of
conventional commerce. most that i know simply want
to "make things better" and NOT be constrained by
a time clock or a price point.

in many cases, you can tweak a mm here and and
2 minutes to an angle there to help a frame geometry
"cooperate" with an "uncooperating" body type. but
in the end, there are certain basic tenents of frame
and bicycle design that can't be shoved aside because,
if done, the bicycle simply won't work.

despite the regular use by many of the term "custom",
many frames built by framebuilders (as opposed to
those coming from industry) are really not that different
at all, geometry-wise. the difference is, more often than
not, in the quality level of he build, the tolerances met,
and to a small extent, the attention lavished on the
"finish work".

this is my off-duty opinion.

hey - thanks for reading.
e-RICHIE


Jason

[jerk]

so what if they all "fit"? it doesn't matter. any bike can "fit" given enough goody equipment changes. "fit" is the easy part. getting a bike that balances and rides properly, there's the rub. that's what custom is about. custom is most certainly not about letting bike shop employees, or customers or other morons* "design" frame geometries. "fitters" specifying 63cm top tubes without being able to even define front-center or trail is more awful than the morons of yore who used to go to english frame builders and demand a fleur de lille lug with three swastikas and bottom bracket drop of 8.23 and a 531 seat tube and a columbus top tube but some other stupid downtube from some guy in leeds who used to build plumbing pipes for the guy who cuts the queen's corgis nuts off; and those guys were pretty stupid.

*no offense to morons.

jerk

[dirtdigger88]

so what if they all "fit"? it doesn't matter. any bike can "fit" given enough goody equipment changes. "fit" is the easy part. getting a bike that balances and rides properly, there's the rub. that's what custom is about. custom is most certainly not about letting bike shop employees, or customers or other morons* "design" frame geometries. "fitters" specifying 63cm top tubes without being able to even define front-center or trail is more awful than the morons of yore who used to go to english frame builders and demand a fleur de lille lug with three swastikas and bottom bracket drop of 8.23 and a 531 seat tube and a columbus top tube but some other stupid downtube from some guy in leeds who used to build plumbing pipes for the guy who cuts the queen's corgis nuts off; and those guys were pretty stupid.

*no offense to morons.

jerk


did everyone but me go to happy hour? :beer:

Jason

[e-RICHIE]

"snipped"
for the guy who cuts the queen's corgis nuts off;
jerk

raw deal.
all thse past 10 years we (my wife, aka "the lovely deb") have
endured (sic) life with a poodle onaccounta we thought that
the queen had poodles. now you're saying they were corgis?!

unfair to local 12, villains, thieves, an scoundrels union.

[Len J]

for me is about more than physical fit on a bike.

It's about stiffness, and comfort
It's about design for a purpose
It's about pump pegs and chain hangers and maybe fender eyelets
It's about color
It's about craftsmanship and attention to detail
It's about aestetics
It's about the whole package

& Oh yea, it's about what e-richie said

Just my opinion

Len

[Spinsistah]

did everyone but me go to happy hour? :beer:

Jason

You aren't alone. :)

[1centaur]

Somewhat in the mode of jerk's comments, I have two custom bikes and several stock bikes. They all fit well enough or are a stem change or a setback away from something close to excellent fit at worst. But my customs give me something extra, much like custom suits and shirts look better on my body than off the rack suits that look fine. Custom fits effortlessly and naturally, but also gives me the tweaks I have come to appreciate in a bike that are hit or miss on stock bikes: a BB drop deeper than the semi-ubiquitous 7.0, chainstays longer than 41, head and seat tube angles of 73 or less with forks that give a trail I like, a top tube with a very minor slope, and of course a paint job that's all my own. Could not care less what a builder thinks is important in a bike - I've learned what I like and I can only get the combo in custom (not that I can't be lured by a nice stock bike of course :) )

[jerk]

no happy hour for the jerk tonight.

jerk

[Ginger]

I *needed* to go to happy hour...but I didn't.

Now that I have one, custom to me is someone coloring in the spaces between my three points in space to create the best balanced bike that does everything I ask of it. And I ask a lot of a bike even if I don't race.

[e-RICHIE]

I *needed* to go to happy hour...but I didn't.

Now that I have one, custom to me is someone coloring in the spaces between between my three points in space to create the best balance bike that does everything I ask of it.

between between???
is that like duran duran?
lisa lisa and the cult jam?!
johnson & johnson?

you don't need to answer that!
bananas.

[Ginger]

No, it's like the the

[zeroking17]

I give my business to custom builders because I want a frame built by non-alienated labor.

[jerk]

I give my business to custom builders because I want a frame built by non-alienated labor.

even the aesthetic activities of political opposites are one in their enthusiastic obedience to the rhythm of the iron system.
jerk

[stackie]

Steve,

Your post is pretty interesting to me as a fellow tall guy. I am just a skosh under 6'4'' with a 89.5 cm "cycling inseam". As flexibility decreased due to age, damage, interference I have progressed from a 57x57.5 frame to a 60x60 and finally to a 65x61. The last, being a custom fit. The second iteration of custom bike was 64x61 simply because I wanted to drop the top tube a centime for my aesthetic (and to have seatpost fit into repair stand). I'm using 130mm stems to get a nice long fit and keep my elbows off my knees. So, I'm surprised that with more height than me, you have less reach (top tube plus stem). And, no, I don't have my seat forward at all. It's back on the Dura Ace post. It'd be interesting to see you on the bike. Whatever, though, just thoughts.

Otherwise, I'd have to agree with E-richie (how could one argue?). You go custom for that extra bit of craftsmanship and attention to detail. I also second zeroking's ideal of supporting a better kind of labor. I've got a spare dollar or two, so I choose to spend them buying a great frame built by an independent American builder who takes great pride in his frames because they are his own. I feel the pride and quality in my bikes everytime I ride them, clean them, or just tweak a bolt. These days, there are so few arenas in which one can actually afford to buy a product built by a true craftsman, I feel fortunate to have my obsession be in one of them.

Jon

[SoCalSteve]

He brings up a great point...Thats its much more than a bike "fitting".

I just happen to be lucky to have found bikes that "fit" that were made by custom frame builders. So, in essence, I got the best of that world.

My Seven, both my Serotta's and my Fondriest (yes, even though its a stock bike, they dont make very many of them and the attention to detail is beyond compare!).

I am so happy that I found this Forum for oh so many reasons...

I threw out the original post kind of to play devils advocate and kind of to see what everyones opinion is about custom, etc.

Thank you all for bringing so much to the table (and not flaming me).

This is truly a great place (Happy Hour or not).

Everyone have a great weekend!

Steve

[Ray]

As usual, late to the thread. I'm about 5' 11" and not all that wierdly proportioned. I've been on a lot of bikes on which I could arrange the seat and handlebars around the bottom bracket in such a way that I was quite comfortable. I've owned quite a few nice spec bikes over the years and been insanely happy with a few of them. I finally had a custom made not out of dissatisfaction with my bikes, but just to see what more was possible. Turns out a lot more was possible.

And I'm not even talking about the ultra in craftsmanship - that's nice but I pretty much had that in some other non-custom bikes. I'm talking, as Jerk was, about a builder looking at the way I sit on a bike, making a few adjustments to that, and determining the right angles, trail, front-center, chainstay length, wheelbase, tubing diameters, etc, etc, etc, to produce a bike that I'd be perfectly balanced on, given my particular strengths (limited) and weaknesses (prodigious). And I came out of it with a bike that handles like no other bike I've ever been on. At once more stable at speed than any other bike I've ridden and still able to turn in and react more quickly and smoothly than any other bike I've ridden. Really quite a revelation. I wouldn't say I'm more comfortable on this bike than on any other - I've been pretty comfortable on others - but the ride and handling are beyond comparison.

I too was dubious about the benefits of custom, but having put myself in the hands of one expert fitter/designer/builder, I've seen the light. I'm going to do the same thing with another to see how their approaches differ. Given all the money most of us have spent over the years on various pieces of bike equipment, I'd say paying for the expertise of a master is the best money I've spent on bicycles.

-Ray

[soulspinner]

It appears the jerk has hit upon the essence of what the problem was with my first frame. The bike never handled great in my hands even though it was a custom. When I called Carl Strong to get a second custom built, I gave him all the numbers on the first frame and he immediately said the balance for / aft was wrong. Needless to say the new frame, built for me handles better than any bike I have ever been on(Ive been on a lot). Its amazing how much more confident I am decending.

[Climb01742]

to me, custom has two aspects: fit and ride. being able to achieve exactly the ride qualities you want is, for me, the best reason to go custom. the second best is to ride a true expression of passion and craftsmanship. so few objects in life are built with passion and with perfection as their goal. we compromise in so much of our lives. it's great to be able to pursue perfection and craftsmanship in one area. which (to borrow from another thread) is not to degrade stock frames, but to praise custom frames.

[Kevan]

are the measurements of your bikes the same (assuming same/similar styled saddles):

- saddle tip to bar

- saddle tip to hood (reach)

- bar to ground

My Calfee is an off the rack 60 w/ a 110 stem, the Serotta is an off the rack 58 w/ a 130 stem. In terms of saddle nose to bar, the lengths are dead on, though saddles are a "bit" different in style. The bar height from ground of the Serot is about a centimeter lower, but the diff in bb drop in both bike's likely compensates, to what extent I'm not sure. The interesting aspects (at least to me) are the reach on the Serot is less than the Calfee, by almost 2cm and that's related to a different bars being used, and, as has been mentioned here, is the balance of weight placed fore and aft of the bike. I perceive the Serot assumes a larger percentage of my top weight than the Calfee. What I haven't yet determined yet is.. is that a good or bad thing?

Speaking of gooney and custom, a good friend has returned to riding because what custom builds offer. An old cycling injury damaged her neck making a conventional bike impossible. She tried the recumbent thing, but that wasn't her bag. It was really David Novo and his earlier rigs, when he was coping with back issues, building strange looking (dare I say "gooney"?) bikes, that the idea that this was her solution too, came into my head. She voiced her frustrations with fit, I sent her pictures of Dave's bikes as proof of what could be had, and now she rides a tricked-out Seven that has a head tube with the length of a rolling pin. I mention this not as an argument because we all know that extenuating circumstances do exist that require customizing above and beyond just the tweaks others want.

All in good fun and understanding. It's a gorgeous day out and I should be out riding, but today is son's day and we're off to tweak this here pc for some video editing use.

[Dr. Doofus]

doof has five pairs of shorts, three are from j.c. penny, one is from the gap, and one may have been someone else's but they left them here...food still isn't certain.

anyway, they all fit

but...

mrs. doof says mr. doof looks dorky in all of them

[Ginger]

Perhaps in that case, it isn't the shorts fault? Although, I'm sure you're totally custom.

[Dave]

When you note that two of you bikes have the same geometry, you have to consider the STA before you say that. Two bike with the same c-c size, and same TT length will fit differently if the STA is not the same.

The Fondriest would also have a "virtual" (horizontal TT) size that could be compared more directly to your other bikes.

[SoCalSteve]

Thanks to one and all for expressing different veiw points, all valid and all worth considering.

Maybe one day I will go "custom" just to see. But, where do I go? There is no science to it, correct? Its an art form, yes? And every bike fitter has a different opinion on how a bike should fit...

Who is correct? Who is right? Is this why E-Richie has a 2 year back log?

I have heard HORROR stories about "trained" Serotta fitters. And of course, I am sure there are great ones too.

I'd like to know where I could go and feel very confident that I am in comptent hands. I mean, I dont even have to buy a bike from that person, just get the "spec's" and take it to a custom bike builder.


Suggestions? Opinions? Clues? Oh, as you can tell, I am in Southern California. Los Angeles actually.

As always, thank you all for such great insights, wisdoms and experiences,

Steve

[eddief]

interesting to note that they don't seem to be there. I'm not sure what the motivation would be if you are as comfy as you say. You might be surprised to have competent fitter check you out on a fit bike and see how their point of view compares with what you currently ride. Sometimes they can watch you pedal and spot things that can make it all even better.

[e-RICHIE]

Thanks to one and all for expressing different veiw points, all valid and all worth considering.

Maybe one day I will go "custom" just to see. But, where do I go? There is no science to it, correct? Its an art form, yes? And every bike fitter has a different opinion on how a bike should fit...

Who is correct? Who is right? Is this why E-Richie has a 2 year back log?

I have heard HORROR stories about "trained" Serotta fitters. And of course, I am sure there are great ones too.

I'd like to know where I could go and feel very confident that I am in comptent hands. I mean, I dont even have to buy a bike from that person, just get the "spec's" and take it to a custom bike builder.


Suggestions? Opinions? Clues? Oh, as you can tell, I am in Southern California. Los Angeles actually.

As always, thank you all for such great insights, wisdoms and experiences,

Steve


this doesn't make sense. you have four bicycles that you
like, even though each may be different by a whisker.
why are you second guessing yourself? these bicycles
serve you well, i assume. does riding induce pain or
injury? no? i'd stay put rather than spend money to have
some guy you've never met tell you what's better than what
you already have.
e-RICHIE

[SoCalSteve]

spice of life, I guess.

I have no kids, my wife doesnt mind as long as her Merlin is in good working order, the mortgage is almost paid off, after 25 years as a Teamster in the movie biz I have a great pension coming...

So, why not? Whats wrong with having 10 bikes? How many does DBRK have? And, it seems like many of them are very different from one another.

The point you make about having a total stranger give me his/her opinion is interesting....How many people come to you who have never met you? You give them your opinion and they trust you and buy a frame from you, right? Why do they do this? Probably because you have a proven track record that you can deliver a product that people like.

Well, I wouldnt go to a comnplete stranger, I'd go to someone like you, Dave Kirk, Tom Kellog, etc, etc, etc...People who all have great reputations for delivering a quality product.

An example, after reading the praises of Mike Garcia on this forum, I called him up and now have 3 sets of wheels that he built for me. I would have never known he existed if not for his great reputation.

What I am looking for is someone local to me that has a great reputation as a bike fitter. He doesnt need to be a frame builder. Just someone who can fit me and then I can take these specs to a frame builder...Or does it not work this way???

Please enlighten me.

Thank you,

Steve

[e-RICHIE]

spice of life, I guess.

I have no kids, my wife doesnt mind as long as her Merlin is in good working order, the mortgage is almost paid off, after 25 years as a Teamster in the movie biz I have a great pension coming...

So, why not? Whats wrong with having 10 bikes? How many does DBRK have? And, it seems like many of them are very different from one another.

The point you make about having a total stranger give me his/her opinion is interesting....How many people come to you who have never met you? You give them your opinion and they trust you and buy a frame from you, right? Why do they do this? Probably because you have a proven track record that you can deliver a product that people like.

Well, I wouldnt go to a comnplete stranger, I'd go to someone like you, Dave Kirk, Tom Kellog, etc, etc, etc...People who all have great reputations for delivering a quality product.

An example, after reading the praises of Mike Garcia on this forum, I called him up and now have 3 sets of wheels that he built for me. I would have never known he existed if not for his great reputation.

What I am looking for is someone local to me that has a great reputation as a bike fitter. He doesnt need to be a frame builder. Just someone who can fit me and then I can take these specs to a frame builder...Or does it not work this way???

Please enlighten me.

Thank you,

Steve


one cannot enlighten another. it comes from within.
in your case, my only opinion is to go to a framebuilder
and not a fitter. you mentioned being satisfied with your
4 bicycles. fit is part of the equation. get someone who
understands the interaction between the fit, which is
static, and the working specs of a frame meant to
allow you to fit over it; one that can inspire confidence
at 56 mph, one that can carve a turn, one that is both
rigid and comfortable simultaneously. etectera.

[Don49]

I'd like to know where I could go and feel very confident that I am in comptent hands. I mean, I dont even have to buy a bike from that person, just get the "spec's" and take it to a custom bike builder.


Suggestions? Opinions? Clues? Oh, as you can tell, I am in Southern California. Los Angeles actually.
Steve

There don't seem to be any custom builders in the LA area. My one and only custom is a Curtlo Advanced Mountaineer, built when Doug was still located here in Canyon Country or Saugus, and he fit me himself. Steve Rex is in Sacramento, not an impossible onetime trip from LA. I think the San Diego area has some custom builders, perhaps Brian Baylis.

I did have a "fitting" done by a Serotta dealer in Agoura Hills in preparation for ordering a custom road bike. But I've come to realize, through trial and error with my existing bikes, that the frame size recommendations that resulted from my fitting are probably not ideal for me.

I'd like to try a custom road frame from Curtlo or Strong, but I'm really reluctant to have a frame built for me unless that frame builder can see me and fit me in person, and really understand how I'm going to be using his frame.

Don
Northridge, CA

[Dr. Doofus]

one cannot enlighten another. it comes from within.
in your case, my only opinion is to go to a framebuilder
and not a fitter. you mentioned being satisfied with your
4 bicycles. fit is part of the equation. get someone who
understands the interaction between the fit, which is
static, and the working specs of a frame meant to
allow you to fit over it; one that can inspire confidence
at 56 mph, one that can carve a turn, one that is both
rigid and comfortable simultaneously. etectera.


exactly..."fit" has been oversold by bike shops and has become a customer obesession because the parties involved in the conversation don't know enough to have a meaningful one. doof isn't being a smarty-pants here...he used to be a "fitter," and was one one of those morons who would say "buy the bike that fits." as our jerk sez, you can make anything fit. it is, as the brazing budda sez, about how the framebuilder designs the bike to manage weight distribution, handling, rigidity (both front and rear) and ride quality, within a range of the positions created by the fit. why positions? because fit and position changes over the course of a season...the bike is designed not to dial in one perfect and unchanging fit nirvana (that's another bike shop load of crap) but a limited number of workable combinations of height, setback, drop and reach within a given range....

if you have a big *** pension coming, go to kellog or kirk or the CT man himself and have them build you a bike...be happy with your current rides, they're all nice...but don't expect to find "the one perfect fit" that never changes...that's a load and it has to do more with marketing than with any real reason to buy a bike.

[malcolm]

First off let me say I love serotta. I own two an ottrott and a hors. But you really can't compare serotta, seven or those type of companies where your bike is fitted by someone in a shop be it great or not so great to something like e-ritchie, kirk or kellog. When one man or woman with a passion defines your three points in space and then creates a one off piece of art to connect those points that is the paragon of custom and for those that love bicycles beyond a tool to move you under your own power it gets no better. I'm thankful that people like e-ritchie, kirk, kellog, dario and I'm sure many others exist, if for no other reason than to allow me to lust afer their product. A yugo will get me to work, but I would be much happier in a turbo porsche.

[austin_cycling]

As others have mentioned, custom frames are not just for fit.

At 5'9" and 150lbs, I fit most stock 55cm frames almost perfectly. However, I wanted a bike with internal rear-brake cable routing so I could sit on the top tube at stoplights and carry it on my shoulder. I also wanted an extended head tube so I could ditch the stack of spacers. Slightly curved seatstays for a compliant ride? Check! Rear clearance for 28mm tires in the winter? Check! Beautiful fillet brazes? Check!

Basically no 'off the shelf' frame has all the features I wanted on my ride, so I went custom. Interestingly though - my custom ride does actually fit better than any stock frame I've ridden. Hoods, drops or tops, climbing or descending - it feels natural.

Builders can also fine tune the ride of your bike to your taste by using different guage and ovalized tubes where appropriate. Did I mention you get your choice of paint too?

I feel a custom ride is more than just fit - it's an expression of you and type of rider you are.

[weisan]

...I wanted a bike with internal rear-brake cable routing so I could sit on the top tube at stoplights and carry it on my shoulder. I also wanted an extended head tube so I could ditch the stack of spacers. Slightly curved seatstays for a compliant ride? Check! Rear clearance for 28mm tires in the winter? Check! Beautiful fillet brazes? Check!

Austin-pal, now do tell us what name this coveted bike of yours carry with it? It wouldn't happen to start with a "K", would it??!
:D