Every once in a while, you see how really great, great is!

[Len J]

Picked up the latest edition of Spokes (Free Mi-Atlantic cycling guide) today, and there is an article by a local Cat 3 rider from Washington DC who had the pleasure to Join Lance, Chan McRae & two of Lance's training buddies for a 5 hour training ride in Austin last December. He wrote an article on his various rides with Lance (up to and including his ride in the DC Ride for Hope where he almost got mugged trying to "protect" Lance from all the wellwishers).

When describing his "training" ride" in Austin, he describes a relativly flat section (After they had been riding for awile), where Lance took a 5 mile pull at between 34 and 37 MPH. ON A TRAINING RIDE IN DECEMBER. The poor guy was over red-lined the entire time trying to hang on to 4th position in a 4 man pace line. It's a pretty good read (and most of our dreams).

It got me thinking about sports (And any endevour that requires skill & talent) in general and the various levels of achievement. Every once in a while, you get a view of just how good the really great are, and how far better than even an above average performer they are. Examples that come to my mind are:

1.) Gretzky in his prime. My grandmother happened to be in the living room while a hockey game was on. She knows nothing about hockey, and less about sports. After watching for a couple of minutes, she asked me: Who is that little guy that is so much better than anyone else on the ice? It was that apparent.

2.) I played Basketball in an over 25 league many years ago. We reached the finals and played a team that only really had one talented player, a guy who had played for 4 years at Villanova, and who had hung around as a 12th man in the NBA for 4 or 5 years, getting sporadic minutes at best. Anyway, to make a long story short, we had a dominent team and lost 84-83, this guy had 82 points! He was a scrub in the NBA and we couldn't stop him, and we were pretty good. Made me wonder how good, good is.

How about you? Any examples like these?

Len

[Dr. Doofus]

I've seen it in many areas....

When I was in college, I had a go at being a swimmer. I was an excellent HS swimmer -- 4:48 in the 500 free, one of the top 20 in the state. When I got to university, I tried walking on. They let me train over the summer, but that was it, and my soph year I was an assistant to the coaching staff. Now, at that point, I was 4:38 for the 500 -- that will win some D3 or D2 conference meets. I found out that, really, that wasn't much compared to the big boys...we had a guy who was 4:19 and made two Olympic teams -- 4:19 to 4:38 is like getting toasted in a pursuit by 20 seconds, folks...we also had a guy who was 3rd in the NCAA in the 50 free. They were simply on another plane....

I went to France in 1989, with a connection in Rennes. Now, I wasn't very good -- a borderline 2; likewise, the club wasn't very good -- we had matching jerseys and bikes, but that was as far as it went, and though it wasn't an elite squad, hey, I can say I raced in France.... On the many occasions that I found myself getting roasted at the back of what was basically a strong 2-3 field, there was usually some little craphead at the front who maybe, maybe, got a four-week stint as a stagiare, then nothing, but like a guy who makes NCAAS in track or swimming, only to place last, any guy whose pro experience lasted a matter of weeks was a super stud when he was 19 or 20.

Finally, I've seen it in music. I've had a couple of songs get taken by friends of mine that have ended up on their crappy little indie CD, which would still be better than my crappy little self-made CD...now, I was good enough to scratch out a living without a day job for a year, and during that time I gigged with people who were unbelievably good, but never broke out beyond the Southeast...I had no buisness on the same stage as them, but they weren't making a whole lot more than I was....

Talent works on an exponentially steep curve. The next level always requires a jump that was as big as the one from the very start to your present level. There's a reason that, in any highly specialized field, there's only about 300 people in the world who are really good at it...the rest of us are just chasing....

My own talent? I don't know.... I've been reasonably good, close enough to really good to realize I wasn't even close, at a lot of things...swimming, cycling, music, scholarship, teaching, writing...I suppose I either have the talent, or sheer bloody-mindedness, to be your basic jack of all but master of none....

[dbrk]

I've had the sort of life that has seemingly surrounded me with such greatness, infusing plenty of humility as well as a keen eye for the extraordinary. 'Seen it in sport and the arts, in the company of great spiritual beings, and, yes, even occasionally in the bike biz.

But hands down the most impressive example of human talent I have witnessed was the intellectual presence of the late Daniel Henry Holmes Ingalls, once Wales Professor of Sanskrit at Harvard University. Called by Zeph Stewart, Chairman of Harvard's Classic's Department. "the best classicist I have ever known", Ingalls would routinely quote from Homer in Greek, Shakespeare at length, Cicero in Latin, Voltaire in French, Tolstoy in Russian, and even Burns in old Scots---all in an effort to explain some or another obscure reference to Indo-European linguists, theories of parsody, or a common simile. He could read more than a dozen ancient Asian languages and spoke as many modern ones. It is simply impossible to describe adequately the prowess of this fine man's genius. During WWII he and his mates broke Japanese codes in Washington and when they had finished up that small task, he was shipped to Afghanistan as an attache (spy) to keep an eye on the Great Game (British, Russian, and Chinese interests, see Kipling's Kim for the fun version or Hopkirk's The Great Game). The story goes on. When I met Ingalls as a graduate student he wore tweads, bow ties, black horn-rimmed glasses and called you by your last name, as in, "That won't do, Mr. Brooks..." We were told that he had mellowed but he nonetheless evoke pure, unadulterated awe. I've known lots of smart folks, really, really smart, many current MacArthur Fellows, etc., not a one comes close to Professor Ingalls, who never finished a PhD. He was appointed to the professorship on the basis of his Master's degree, simply too brilliant to be required to do more in any formal sense.

dbrk

[Sandy]

Len,

A Cat 3 could ride in a paceline for 5 miles between 34 and 37 mph? That is amazing to me. I must be a Cat 842. I would really love being able to hit 34-37 mph on the flats, if only for a instant of time. How much wattage would Lance A. be producing to pull at that speed for 5 miles? I relaize that he has time trialed at over 30 mph, which is a really remarkable feat, so far beyond the scope of 99.9999999999999999999999 percent of cyclists.

So Old, So Very Slow, So jealous, STill Serotta Sandy

[Dr. Doofus]

Sandy --

1) Don't forget that having riders drafting behind you actually helps you a little bit, by "making you longer." Picture a single scull -- the water will form its wake quickly behind the small, one-person shell, thus adding to the form drag that must be overcome. Now, look at the longest shells in rowing -- the distance between the bow and the stern is much greater, thus reducing the overall drag. This is why swimmers learn to streamline and hold a glide between strokes -- making their bodies longer in the water.

For a cyclist, having a rider behind "lengthens" the aerodynamic shape, thus making it a little easier to hold speed. The benefit increases the more the paceline or peloton lengthens, until a point of diminishing returns....


2) So, it isn't as simple as taking Lance's weight, probably around 160 this time of year, and figuring out watts from 35mph.

3) Just as a guess, and figuring in a slight tailwind, I'll say LA was putting out around 420 watts -- ungodly high for most professionals, and what would be a LT workout, if not a full-on time trial, for 90% of the pro peloton. Bearing in mind that LA's LT is estimated to be around 450, or higher, that 420 watts was a tempo/L3 effort, something quite manageable during December, especially since Lance's "quiet time" on the bike is Sept-Oct. The equivalent for most of us would be a steady effort at, say, 23-26, depending on age and fitness.

[gt6267a]

in college, i did photography for the school newspaper and yearbook. at the begining of basketball season, the editor handed me two rolls of film and sent me down to the game with the instruction, "for the first roll, get a little of everything. for the second roll, shoot whoever is looking good."

shooting basketball was always fun with all the ap, si, etc. etc. guys with their high-end equipment. at this same game, i heard a click, click, click, click of a shutter. it was faster and smoother than anything i had heard yet. i turned and it was a prototype nikon F5.

i digress, i'm shooting away on the first roll and it quickly becomes clear that one of our new guys is smoking everyone. it's not even close, this guy is way better than anyone else on the floor. i shot half the first roll and the entire second roll of this guy passing, shooting, in the huddle ...

after my editor had looked at the film, he told me something like, "nice job, we needed to get some pictures of (stephan) marburry. "

even to my untrained, inexperienced eye, he was clearly better than everyone else.

he played for one year and then went to the pros. i don't follow basketball so i don't know how successful he is there.

[csm]

if you ever get a chance to see colin mcrae in a rally car. either in person or on tv. he can do things with a car that us mere mortals would only do by accident!

[mavic1010]

How is he doing in the NBA? One of the premier point guards in the game...so I think he's doing pretty well....

[bulliedawg]

Played intramural basketball in college at Florida State. One of the teams was made up of footnball players. One of the players was Deion Sanders. He was the quickest human being I've ever seen. Could have played in the NBA if he wanted. But chose to play football and baseball instead.

Talk about great athletes -- here's a trivia question for those interested: Who's the only athlete to ever be drafted into the NFL, NBA, and Major League Basball? Hint: He chose baseball.

sic'em

[Dr. Doofus]

Bulliedawg, that one is easy: Dave Winfield.


Tom Williams, the sprinter we had at Iowa, was similar. Six three, 175, a 40+ vertical...he could have been great in a lot of sports...his best was swimming.

For what its worth, Peter VanPetegem was a *serious* soccer player, and could have done that as a pro...same with Luca Scinto...Greg Lemond and Steve Bauer were amazing all-around athletes. As a rule, any guy who can make it happen on the cobbles has a lot of athletic ability, with balance, hand-eye coordination, reflexes...the jerk can elaborate there....

[bulliedawg]

Doofus:

You da man! I went to grad school at Iowa in the early 90s. Don't remember Tom Williams. Where are you in South Carolina? My wife hails from the upstate metropolis of Liberty.

sic'em

[Ken Robb]

how about watching a really good mechanic's fingers fly while he carries on a conversation with me and seems to be barely looking at the bike (or car, motorcycle, etc.)? Or watch a carpenter cut a perfectly fitting plug or shim WITHOUT measuring--just thye old eyeball?

[mikemets]

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=5300

[don compton]

dear riders,
i played golf in college,70-73, for cal. i played against several guys who later made a living as pro golfers: craig stadler,peter jacobsen, and mark pfiel. i was all league,(pac-8 in those days).
the best move i made was deciding to make a living doing something else. i enjoyed golf for many more years and began cycling after my back gave out.
reality: the above mentioned men were no not so superior in any one aspect of thier game, but total of their games. cycling is different, however we look at the superstars and forget that we are much older and even at there young age would not have made the sacrifice both physical and social that these special individuals make to reach their incredible successes.
don compton, current proud of a wonderful c-111 and future owner of a new legend ariving in january

[shinomaster]

That is how people feel when they encounter my pottery. How can a man so young be so experienced? So gifted? So able to see beauty, where others can not....life is tough.:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :

[bulliedawg]

Shino:

You must be busy as hell this time of year. Pottery is the in thing to give for Christmas. We have pottery sales all over the place down here this time of year. Wifey's a pottery freak, and I bought her some stuff for Santa to give her.

sic'em

[ChamUK]

I got to see George and his older brother race when they were a juniors, kicking everyone's butts. George was like 12 or 13, blowing away seniors at the Kissena velodrome. I belonged to the Kissena Cycling Club as well as the Hincapie brothers. Their Dad used to drive them to the track. I believe at that time the boys were riding Cuevas frames. Another great junior at the time was Mike McCarthy (from Century Road Club).

[keno]

Some years back, I was a spectator at the Honda Classic, a professional golf tournament in southern Florida. I was watching the players warm up on at the practice area. There was a player swinging a driver left handed, smooth as silk and hitting the ball dead center about 230 yards. That's not very far, not then not now, but fabulous for most golfers, particularly the straight down the middle part.

What I realized was that the pro was Fred Couples, a righty, who was simply swinging the club left handed, hitting the ball with the rounded back edge of his right handed driver. Might be like a training ride, hands off.

[CIII_bill]

>>There was a player swinging a driver left handed, smooth as silk

Freddy's swing is definately smooth as silk. I love his swing.

[BigMac]

I became a big fan of cycling in summer of '70 when I saw Eddy Merckx win his 2nd TdF GC title. I was introduced to him by a friend, even as a relative cycling neophyte it was obvious that I was in presence of greatness.

I had similar experience while in college. I was a senior, generally well regarded as a skilled tackler. We played USC at Coliseum. The game began and ended with USC running its famous 'student body' sweeps. The rb was one OJ Simpson. Believe me it pains me to mention this murdering SOB, but as a pure running back I have never personally faced another player who so humbled me. On two separate occasions I was left diving at air attempting to tackle him. A couple years later I faced he and the Bills. The Bills were clearly the least talented offensive team in league, OJ still went for over 150 yards in the game. His acceleration through hole and vision were the best I ever witnessed.

More recently I have met President Bill Clinton and former Chairman of Joint Chiefs/current Secretary of State Colin Powell. Now these may not seem "great" by some definitions, but Mr Clinton was the leader of the world's most powerful nation, meeting any current or former world leader is greatness in my book, regardless of politics. Colin Powell was a tremendous pleasure. A gracious, highly articulate man yet extremely approachable and intelligent. A man who has experienced more in his life than most could ever dream of. He is also a fan of cycling and motorbikes which puts him very high on my list.

Ride on!

[averyupdike]

The second was Dave Logan (Univ of Colorado) played football for the Browns.