Road Race/Fast Training Wheelset Suggestions Needed - Budget of ~$700 (used or new)

[tlarwa]

I've been looking for a new (to me) set of clinchers that'll serve as both "fast" training wheels (the Tuesday/Thursday "hammer" club rides) and race-day wheels (road race only, no crits). My daily riders are Neuvation M28's, and while they've been bomb-proof, I'd like something a little lighter and/or more aero. I'm not a great climber (I'll get up anything, just not quickly), and I don't expect the new wheels to fix that for me. Where I am looking for some help from the wheels is on the rollers (lots of them in WI) and working in the paceline at 26-30mph. That's where I really start to feel it. The Zipp 101's look nice, but way out of my budget. Anyone using the SRAM s30? Seems like it might be an option. My mind still leans towards the Mavic Carbone SL (love the look, and would meet the aero requirement), but I'm not sure what the best way to go is. I do NOT want a full carbon wheel ... just don't want to fool with changing out pads. I am not looking for "climbing-specific" wheels ... in fact, I just sold my AC 350 wheelset, which was pretty light. I want something lighter than the M28's, but more aero too. By the way, I'm 6'1, 170 or so, so not especially "whispy", but not a clydesdale either.

My budget is about $700 (either new or on the pre-owned market).

By the way, some of you may have seen my post on picking up some full carbon tubies ....that deal fell through (guy sold them out from under me :no: ). I've since reconsidered the tubie/full carbon option and decided to stick with what I know and am confortable with.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Tom

[slowandsteady]

I would think if you are training in the 26-30mph zone you should be looking for sponsers to buy you some wheels!!!

[oldpotatoe]

I've been looking for a new (to me) set of clinchers that'll serve as both "fast" training wheels (the Tuesday/Thursday "hammer" club rides) and race-day wheels (road race only, no crits). My daily riders are Neuvation M28's, and while they've been bomb-proof, I'd like something a little lighter and/or more aero. I'm not a great climber (I'll get up anything, just not quickly), and I don't expect the new wheels to fix that for me. Where I am looking for some help from the wheels is on the rollers (lots of them in WI) and working in the paceline at 26-30mph. That's where I really start to feel it. The Zipp 101's look nice, but way out of my budget. Anyone using the SRAM s30? Seems like it might be an option. My mind still leans towards the Mavic Carbone SL (love the look, and would meet the aero requirement), but I'm not sure what the best way to go is. I do NOT want a full carbon wheel ... just don't want to fool with changing out pads. I am not looking for "climbing-specific" wheels ... in fact, I just sold my AC 350 wheelset, which was pretty light. I want something lighter than the M28's, but more aero too. By the way, I'm 6'1, 170 or so, so not especially "whispy", but not a clydesdale either.

My budget is about $700 (either new or on the pre-owned market).

By the way, some of you may have seen my post on picking up some full carbon tubies ....that deal fell through (guy sold them out from under me :no: ). I've since reconsidered the tubie/full carbon option and decided to stick with what I know and am confortable with.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Tom

Got a decent wheelbuilder locally that can design and build a wheelset specifically for you?

Like shimano or Campagnolo hubs, Velocity or DT rims, etc??

[dekindy]

http://www.rolwheels.com/rol_race_sl_wheels.php

How about some Rol Race SL's at $625?

http://www.rolwheels.com/customer_press_reviews.php
http://www.roadbikereview.com/mfr/rolwheels/wheelsets/PRD_366181_2490crx.aspx#OW

I am sold on road tubeless. You could get a set of Shimano 7850sl's in that price range if you shop around and are patient and the Ultegra level model is within your price range.

[tlarwa]

I would think if you are training in the 26-30mph zone you should be looking for sponsers to buy you some wheels!!!

I don't think I said anywhere that my training zone was 26-30 mph. But, we routinely hammer in the paceline at those speeds. And it's a LOT of work! I'm looking for any technical edge I can afford to help me there (within my budget, of course).

[eddief]

I just sold mine. They were stiff and light and seems as if they would have fit the bill for you. They rode a little harsh/stiff due to low spoke count and did not fit my riding style, but would probably be perfect for the purpose you describe. good looking, handled my 190 lbs, smooth, and no clicking pawls.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=38244

[AngryScientist]

http://www.williamscycling.com/images/wheel_systems/sys30/30.jpg

THE ROLLEUR - your aerodynamic asset.
The Williams custom designed 30s have been created to offer the benefits of a
drag reducing deep-dish rim profile while keeping the advantages of a lightweight,
dependable alloy clincher. At 1580 grams, the 30s offer a fast and energy saving
wheelset that cuts through wind for those long break-away efforts, or when called
upon to chase at high-speeds for a team leader.
The 30s are an excellent choice for the rider looking for that all-around wheelset
dependable for technical criteriums, exposed road races, or that hilly time trial where
weight is as important as aerodynamics. As with all Williams wheelsets, the 30s
also offer hubs built with Hybrid Ceramic Bearing Technology to reduce rolling
resistance, increase durability, and improve stiffness.
190 pound rider weight limit, etc.

[AngryScientist]

few guys in the club have these and they are pretty highly regarded. 1580 grams, $479 brand new.

[hoonjr]

First off, I was in Lake Geneva last summer and those roads around there are beautiful. Definitely made me wish I had my road bike and knew a good group to ride with.

I will second the Shimano tubeless recommendations. I have the Dura Ace scandium version and they're great.

[rice rocket]

The Williams stuff is all Kinlin rims and Novatec/Joytech hubs, and have a pretty weak 1 year warranty to boot.

A custom builder could probably do better than that, even if you had him build the exact same wheel.

[AngryScientist]

The Williams stuff is all Kinlin rims and Novatec/Joytech hubs, and have a pretty weak 1 year warranty to boot.

A custom builder could probably do better than that, even if you had him build the exact same wheel.

really? i didnt know that, they certainly seem to get great reviews, both online and in real life. if that's the case though, good to know.

[Gummee]

I'm a big fan of Ritchey Pro level wheels. Durable enough to ride on lots, not super heavy, aero enough to be aero, and best of all! regular spokes. I rebuilt my rear with CX-Rays a few years back.

I've had Zipp 404s (not the new shape, the old one) and yes, they are faster and lighter. They're also tubulars and well... tubies are great, but you'd better have your own stuff cause the days of borrowing a teammate's spare are gone.

Over the years I've ridden first gen Shamals, CXP30s, the Ritcheys, Zipps in both 303 and 404, Grecals, and a few more that escape me now. Bang for the buck, the Ritcheys have been my favorites.

HTH

M

[rice rocket]

really? i didnt know that, they certainly seem to get great reviews, both online and in real life. if that's the case though, good to know.
It's not a bad thing, both Kinlin and Novatec have proven products at great prices. It's just a lot of markup for what's $200-250 in parts at "street" prices (I'm sure wholesale is even less).

[AngryScientist]

It's not a bad thing, both Kinlin and Novatec have proven products at great prices. It's just a lot of markup for what's $200-250 in parts at "street" prices (I'm sure wholesale is even less).

i agree, i was considering a set for my next build, but with this information, maybe not for the price.

[Joachim]

I'm with OldPotatoe on this one. My best (durability, weight, etc) clincher wheelsets have always been a handbuild set by a good wheelbuilder. With a $700 budget, this is certainly possible.

[Fixed]

"I just sold my AC 350 wheelset, which was pretty light. "

i don't think you can go lighter than that
cheers

[tlarwa]

"I just sold my AC 350 wheelset, which was pretty light. "

i don't think you can go lighter than that
cheers

At ~1350g, you certainly can go lighter. But the rims were a shallow depth, and I'm looking for something more "aero". It may be psychological, but it is what it is. If I "think" they're faster, I'll probably make them go faster! That said, they certainly felt light on the bike. But even at that weight, I didnt become a "climber" by any stretch of the imagination...

[BCS]

2009 NOS Shamal Ultra 2 way fit for $668


http://totalcycling.com/index.php/product/parts_accessories/wheels_road/WH_SHAM_TI_2.html

[tlarwa]

2009 NOS Shamal Ultra 2 way fit for $668


http://totalcycling.com/index.php/product/parts_accessories/wheels_road/WH_SHAM_TI_2.html

Unfortunately, I need Shimano ...

[PaulE]

Unfortunately, I need Shimano ...

Campy makes a Shimano compatible freehub too!

I feel your pain and don't want to discourage you from getting another wheelset. But I am skeptical that you'll be able to feel any aero advantage during your pull at the front of the paceline or the lighter rotating mass during any climbs from you new wheels. I think the impact is psycholigical - new wheels are worth 25-50 watts until the newness wears off, and a new bike is worth 50-100 watts until the newness wears off.

This is being said by someone who's been on the receiving end and occasionally the giving end of a good butt-kicking, whether my wheels were 32 spoke Open Pro's or Velocity Aeroheads with CX-Ray spokes, Ksyrium SLs or Lightweight Standard clinchers, and 25 mm Conti Gatorskins, 23 mm Vittoria Open Corsas or 22/23 mm Conti Attack/Force tires.

[false_Aest]

Maybe a little heavier than you want but

Kinlin XR-300 with Sapim bladed spokes (CX-Ray), alloy nipples and a set of lighter hubs might be the way to go.


24/28H with a 130g front hub and a 260g rear hub you're looking at about 1550g.

A circus monkey hub will save you 60g in the front and 35g in the rear.


Dropping down to a lower spoke count (20/24) will save you another 30g or so which brings you into the 1400g range.

Swapping to the XR-270 saves you 20 grams/wheel.

[EDS]

You should be able to get a set of mavic cosmic carbone clinchers in very good condition for $700. Not light but seems like you need aero more than lightweight.

[oldpotatoe]

Maybe a little heavier than you want but

Kinlin XR-300 with Sapim bladed spokes (CX-Ray), alloy nipples and a set of lighter hubs might be the way to go.


24/28H with a 130g front hub and a 260g rear hub you're looking at about 1550g.

A circus monkey hub will save you 60g in the front and 35g in the rear.


Dropping down to a lower spoke count (20/24) will save you another 30g or so which brings you into the 1400g range.




Swapping to the XR-270 saves you 20 grams/wheel.

Alloy nipps on a non eyeleted rim=broken nipples. I would not recommend it, will not build with them.

[cmg]

you might try the rev27x wheelset from revolution wheelworks http://www.revolutionwheelworks.com/REV-27X.html similar Kinlin rim, not as deep but within the weight and price range. or you could buy the rims from Alchemy bike shop, buy the 30mm deep rim or rims and a hubset from eBay if you want to keep cost low and get a wheelbuilder in your area build you a set. you could go 30m deep 28 spokes for the rear and something lighter for the front.

[rice rocket]

There's also the Rolf Prima Vigor SLs. 1450g, 34mm deep. I think it's among the lightest "deep" aluminum clinchers out there. They have polarizing looks though.

http://www.rolfprima.com/images/products/2011/2011_VigorSL_set.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v341/169/46/557445984/n557445984_1880137_4925.jpg

Sorry for the NDS photo, it's not mine! :D

[tlarwa]

[QUOTE=rice rocket]There's also the Rolf Prima Vigor SLs. 1450g, 34mm deep. I think it's among the lightest "deep" aluminum clinchers out there. They have polarizing looks though.

I like the look of Rolf's. Had a set of Vector Comp's back in the day. They may fit the bill ... anyone know of a good source?

[rice rocket]

For $700, you're stuck with getting used unless you open up your budget to $900.


They show up on eBay pretty often, although maybe not the SLs. The non-SL version is only 30g more though, difference only being they use a heavier gauge spoke. Checking the completed listings, all sets in previously sold have been under $700, some down to $350.

There's a set on there now for $700, zero bids.

[qjetha]

I would probably jump on this if I was in your position:

http://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=25171&cat=

No relation to seller. Just saw it posted on rbr and thought you may be interested! I am a recent convert into the hand-built custom wheels but I think they are definitely the way to go :)

[tlarwa]

I would probably jump on this if I was in your position:

http://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=25171&cat=

No relation to seller. Just saw it posted on rbr and thought you may be interested! I am a recent convert into the hand-built custom wheels but I think they are definitely the way to go :)

I'd be all over those, if they were Shimano. Just sent a message to the seller to see what would be invovled in converting that free hub to Shimano.

Tom

[Black Dog]

At ~1350g, you certainly can go lighter. But the rims were a shallow depth, and I'm looking for something more "aero". It may be psychological, but it is what it is. If I "think" they're faster, I'll probably make them go faster! That said, they certainly felt light on the bike. But even at that weight, I didnt become a "climber" by any stretch of the imagination...

If you know, and it sounds like you do, that new wheels are not going to make a difference other than some hopeful sort of placebo effect what is the point of this exercise? Aero wheels will make very little difference on your own and no difference in a group ride. Are asking for approval to buy new wheels so that you can rationalize a purchase? Just buy wheels then, no one here is going to judge you. We all buy things for our bikes that we don't really need. If you are just looking to buy some status, not so hard to do in the right crowd. If you want to buy speed, real or imaginary that is not possible. Go out and train like hell, speed is purchased through your hard work not hard earned cash.

Sorry to sound like such a stick in the mud but folks here are bending over backwards, like they always do, to help you out and it seems like you are playing games.

[tlarwa]

Not playing games at all ... my original question was intended to get opinions on a set of wheels that would suit my needs the best. No harm in that. It's always interesting and educational to hear others' opinions and take away from that. The title of my post was pretty specific, I think. If you didnt want to read it and/or participate, then don't. For those that have, thanks.

I'm sure I'm not the only one looking for a fairly light, fairly aero set of wheels. And while I know they won't be the be all end all for my performance, that doesn't mean I shouldn't try to buy to the best of my ability. The choices are mind-numbing ... Rolf, hand-built, Carbones, etc. Getting opinions and suggestions can only help.


Tom

[cmg]

have you looked at SOUL 3.0 wheelsets http://www.bikesoul.com/2009/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3&Itemid=11 Same 30mm rim that you have been talking about.

[AngryScientist]

what about the american classic 420? definitely

-reasonably light
-aero
-alu

,,,

[tlarwa]

After reading everyone's comments and weighing the pros/cons, I think I'm going to go the hand built wheel direction. I just got a quote from Ron Ruff for some Kinlin/White Ind/CX-ray wheels, which I think would fit my needs quite nicely. I've read nothing but good things about the WI H2/H3 hubs, and am comfortable that they are a known entity. Now I'm trying to decide on a rim shape. Ron quoted me on the XR270 rim, mainly because it's a little deeper and I expressed my interest in a semi-aero shape. But the more I read about the Velocity A23 rim, the more intrigued I am about trying the 23mm width. By the way, the set Ron quoted me weigh in at 1472g. That would be a little less with the A23 rims.

I'm zeroing in on a decision ... any other comments on rims or hubs to consider in the same price range? I also looked at the HED C2 rims, but they are double the price. The other option (at the other end of the depth spectrum) is to go to the XR300 rim, which is a little deeper, but weighs a little more too. Not that it would affect my performance, I'm sure! So it comes down to technology (23mm width) vs. appearance/aero-"ness" (27mm or 30mm depth vs. 20mm).

Decisions, decisions....

Tom

[rice rocket]

If you are to believe Zipp and HED, it's likely that the 23mm rim with proper width tires is more aero than an XR270.

Zipp's shape is slightly different though (brake tracks aren't parallel), and closer to 24mm.

[jlwdm]

Dave Thomas - Speed Dreams get some good reviews. No experience with them myself. 1310 grams $795.

Speed Dreams (http://speeddream.com/road-wheels.php)

Jeff

[sbparker31]

I bought a set of Speed Dreams as well, back in 2004. White Industries Hubs with Velocity Aerohead rims, bladed spokes. Really nice, light wheels. I still have them, passed them down to my daughter for her bike, have never really had to true them.

[jtakeda]

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/bik/2401226213.html

Hope this helps.
Shimano and all.

[kohlboto]

Alchemy/Kinlin wheelset for sale on the RBR classifieds:

http://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=25171&cat=

looks like a great deal within your budget.

no affiliation with the seller, etc, etc...

[tlarwa]

Alchemy/Kinlin wheelset for sale on the RBR classifieds:

http://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=25171&cat=

looks like a great deal within your budget.

no affiliation with the seller, etc, etc...

They're Campy ... I need Shimano. Good deal on a nice set of wheels, though!

[Keith A]

I know you've already figured out what you are going to do...and you've already mentioned these wheels being too pricey...but the Zipp 101's look pretty interesting.
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT_REVIEW&ARTICLE_ID=3718&RETURN=Zipp%202011%20Zipp%20101%20Clincher%20Wheel set%20page&RETURNLINK=/za/CCY%3FPAGE%3DBUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD%26PRODUCT.ID%3D9 036%26CATEGORY.ID%3D41%26MODE%3D%26TFC%3DTRUE

BTW, I've been extremely pleased with my Dura-Ace 7850-SL. However, they may not have the aero profile that you are looking for.

[johnnymossville]

...BTW, I've been extremely pleased with my Dura-Ace 7850-SL. However, they may not have the aero profile that you are looking for.

There was a review in one of the major magazines a few years ago that gave the 7850SL's very good marks for aero, considering they aren't "aero" rims.

I wish I could remember which mag it was. Road or Velo-News probably.

[rpm]

After reading everyone's comments and weighing the pros/cons, I think I'm going to go the hand built wheel direction. I just got a quote from Ron Ruff for some Kinlin/White Ind/CX-ray wheels, which I think would fit my needs quite nicely. I've read nothing but good things about the WI H2/H3 hubs, and am comfortable that they are a known entity. Now I'm trying to decide on a rim shape. Ron quoted me on the XR270 rim, mainly because it's a little deeper and I expressed my interest in a semi-aero shape. But the more I read about the Velocity A23 rim, the more intrigued I am about trying the 23mm width. By the way, the set Ron quoted me weigh in at 1472g. That would be a little less with the A23 rims.

I'm zeroing in on a decision ... any other comments on rims or hubs to consider in the same price range? I also looked at the HED C2 rims, but they are double the price. The other option (at the other end of the depth spectrum) is to go to the XR300 rim, which is a little deeper, but weighs a little more too. Not that it would affect my performance, I'm sure! So it comes down to technology (23mm width) vs. appearance/aero-"ness" (27mm or 30mm depth vs. 20mm).

Decisions, decisions....

Tom

After using HED wheels for the last three years, I'm totally sold on the wider rims, and won't get wheels with narrower rims ever again. They improve cornering, rolling resistance, comfort, and aerodynamics. So I would say if you go with the A23 rims, you'll be glad you did. You could also consider a couple of the HED Ardennes models that are in your price range, the CL and the GP. The Ardennes wheels are plenty aero; I often coast past people on downhills.

If you don't decide to go with the wider rims, you can take advantage of the 20% member coupon at REI for Shimano or Mavic wheels.

[BlackTiBob]

As others have said, the HEDs wider rims really do work. More aero with tire mounted, can run less PSI and have better ride and much better cornering.
Check out the HED website for more info as HED doesn't blow smoke.
I had called them and was prepared to buy extra price ceramic bearings and they indicated their tests showed fraction of a watt gain with no load and no perceptible improvement under load so don't waste your money.

On downhills, I too cruise by others even when they're in aero tuck and I'm just on the hoods.

FYI,
I'm considering moving up to the bling Ardennes FR with carbon fiber hubs and selling my Ardennes. Mine are next to topline FRs. Paid $1050.
Excellent condition. Sell for $800 shipped.
If interested I can get some pics.
Bob in MN

[tlarwa]

Just want to thank everyone for their input, and to put this thread to bed with my decision(s)...

I committed to a set of Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL wheels, which is probably what I really wanted all along. But, there's more! After reading all of your input and doing some research, I've decided that I'm going to sell my Neuvations and replace them with a set of hand builts. They will be Velocity A23 rims, Velocity Race hubs, DT Rev spokes, 20/28, radial front, 3x rear. About 1500g (200+g lighter than my Neuvations) and I can get them built up for about $350. The big draw is that it will allow me to try out the 23mm wide rims on the cheap. These will be my training/hilly ride/wet wheels and the Carbone's will be my road racing/fast group ride/dry wheels. I think it'll work out well!

Tom

[cmg]

Velocity A23 rims, Velocity Race hubs, DT Rev spokes, 20/28, radial front, 3x rear. I can get them built up for about $350.

any chance you could share where you can get this set for $350?

[tlarwa]

PM sent

[oldpotatoe]

any chance you could share where you can get this set for $350?

With those hubs, that price isn't that amazing. Altho I would do 1/2 Revs rear, drive side Comps. And 2 cross front.

[Geeeewiz]

Easton EA90 Aero's are awesome. I love mine. Check them out.

http://www.eastoncycling.com/en-us/road/products/wheels/race/ea90-aero-700

Good luck

G

[xeladragon]

any chance you could share where you can get this set for $350?

share with me too! :D

[tlarwa]

With those hubs, that price isn't that amazing. Altho I would do 1/2 Revs rear, drive side Comps. And 2 cross front.

Good advice ... thanks. I'm far from a wheel builder (very far), so I appreciate the input. And while I'd rather see them built with DT Swiss or White hubs, it's not in the cards going to two sets of wheels. I figure these hand builts, even with the Velocity hubs, will be a better, lighter wheel than my Neuvations, and I'll get to try the wider rims as well.

Tom

[champ]

Fulcrum Racing 1 is a good all-around wheelset and can usually be found for around $700.

[san]

i know this has probably been discussed before, but what about using hubs from bikehubstore? are those chinese alternatives not the worth the risk? for the price, i feel it wouldn't matter

[tlarwa]

share with me too! :D

That was a quick quote from prowheelbuilder.com. $340 to be precise, with a weight of 1468g. Not that I'm committed to using them to build these, but it gave me a quick look at what I can likely get them built for. Hope that helps. And to be exact, that was with the Velocity Race front hub and Velocity Road rear hub, and DT Competition spokes, not DT revolutions. Again, it was more to get a ballpark estimate of what I can get into a second set of wheels with 23mm rims for. I'll have to hammer out the exact details before I actually place an order with someone, so the price may change a bit.

[echelon_john]

(Shameless Self Promotion)

I've been building a bunch of wheels with Velocity hubs/rims (including quite a few sets for forum members) and would be happy to help anyone out who's interested. References available, etc...

John

[mjb266]

Okay, i've found the answer. Head over to CC and buy the marked down DT240's laced to the DT's and tied and soldered to boot. Done deal.

[mcewen]

I would recommend the HED Bastogne wheelset. 1480 grams, a nicer ride-quality, low RR, and FAST.

I saw them for $480 on the net too.

[Tony]

I have a front wheel from Neuvation, excellent wheel!
http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wheels.html

Also had two wheel sets built by Dave, both are still going strong after several years of hard riding.
http://www.speeddream.com/index.php

Tony

[jlwdm]

I would recommend the HED Bastogne wheelset. 1480 grams, a nicer ride-quality, low RR, and FAST.

I saw them for $480 on the net too.


Don't know where you are seeing these but usually the low priced Bastognes are pre wider rim.

Be careful.


Jeff