co2 - too many choices

[bironi]

Hello,

I am looking for your recommendations on which co2 inflation package to purchase for my road bike under seat bag. I have been a frame pump guy until now. There are too many models out there to choose from. What has worked well for you, and why.

Thanks for your opinions!

[stackie]

The Ultraflate brand inflators work well. Make sure it uses nonthreaded CO2 cartridges. They can be purchased much cheaper at your local BB gun retailer much more economically than the cycling specific ones sold at your LBS.

Jon

[wasfast]

I use the Innovations air chuck like this one:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=20000&subcategory_ID=4362

and the 16g cartridges. The 12g don't get high enough pressure. Some folks like the version with the mini pump built in. I've only gotten stuck once in 8000 miles without an extra cartridge. This was a solo ride and now when I do this, I just take an extra cartridge just in case.

[JohnS]

I have the Innovations one with the built-in mini pump. That way I can seat the tube with the pump and then blow it up with the CO2.

[dirtdigger88]

I use this one

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=16498&subcategory_ID=4362

I like that I can use threaded and non threaded cartridges.

I buy the cart. from Wal- Mart or the likes


Jason

[Homsie]

I use the same one as dirtdigger....it works great and I use the 12g unthreaded cartridges from Walmart. One cartridge doesn't give enough pressure, so I change cartridges and top off with another. This inflator has a locking switch, so the next time that I flat, I can use the rest of the 12g that was used before....seems to hold it well.

James

[2LeftCleats]

Slightly off the original question, but I've been wondering: why CO2? Why aren't there compressed air cartridges, like little SCUBA tanks? Does CO2 compress better than air? The problem I have with CO2 is that the tire is flat again in a few hours. Can someone with a better grasp of gas laws enlighten me?

[ClutchCargo]

I use the same one as dirtdigger....
James

yep, that's a good one. the Innovations folks know what they're doing - well designed dependable product at a reasonable price.

[Richard]

2left, as a guess, I would suggest a couple of things. One, CO2 is a byproduct of many industrial/chemical industry processes. "Havesting" it for use and sale saves money. I don't believe it is specifically produced for this intended use. Two, air is possibly more corrosive than pure CO2, even when compressed to a liquid. The container might then cost more. And, I think the equivalent gas to liquid size of air vs CO2 would be bigger. Those are my guesses based on a memory of chemistry from 30 years ago.

[christian]

Can someone with a better grasp of gas laws enlighten me?

As to why the tire goes flat again, here is what I posted on a local board a few weeks ago:

Partial pressure gradient of the individual gasses is what causes the tube to go flat again.

In the case of CO2, you've got CO2 at 8 atm on one side of a semi-permeable membrane, and effectively no CO2 on the other side. And N2 at 1 atm outside the tube and no N2 on the inside. Since the diffusion of each gas is affected only by the partial pressure gradient across the membrane, the N2 will seep in and the CO2 will seep out.

Eventually, this will settle to approximately 1 atm N2 (well, air actually) both inside and outside the tube.

Three things:

1) I know atmospheric air isn't 100% N2, but it made the description easier.

2) I haven't taken chemistry since 9th grade, so this could be totally wrong, but I think I'm on the right track.

3) I have no real world experience to back this up, as I don't use a CO2 cartridge. I use a pump.

- Christian

[Ozz]

I use the same one as dirtdigger....it works great and I use the 12g unthreaded cartridges from Walmart. One cartridge doesn't give enough pressure, so I change cartridges and top off with another. This inflator has a locking switch, so the next time that I flat, I can use the rest of the 12g that was used before....seems to hold it well.

James
Try the 16g cartridges designed for mtn bike tires...gets a 700x23 right up to 100+ psi

[Bradford]

slightly off topic:

I switched to CO2 with my Legend for looks. At the Open House I was talking to some of the Sierra Nevada guys and noticed they both had uggly frame pumps jammed into there frames, they looked absolutly awful. I made a comment to them and they said that they wouldn't dream of riding with CO2 because frame pumps are more reliable and CO2 doesn't work well under 32 degrees.

I'll stick with CO2 as an experiment, but it was an interesting comment from some good riders.

[Too Tall]

Bradford, it goes a little beyond that. When you train so many miles as those fellers you can't depend on CO2. Multiple failures, helping others etc. and a good frame pump is fast too. For the same reason you won't find alot of Brevet riders carrying CO2. The only time I ever carried CO2 when I was riding long was to affect quick(er) flat repairs so not to delay fast pack riding. Kinda like a mud flap for the guy behind you. Style is less an issue.

[Keith A]

Like the others have said, Innovations makes a great product. I've been using one of the orginal Ultraflate for years. Check out their website (http://www.innovationsaz.com/retail.html) for some of the choices available. It looks like they have recently redesigned most of their CO2 products.

[pdonk]

I have used an innovations for years, and that ended up being a problem a few weeks ago as the O ring had dried up and ended up leaving me stranded as the cartridge would not seal, a frame pump is now on my road bike. Will probably replace it for the mountain bike though as I am ussally within walking disatnce of the car.

[SoCalSteve]

and never a problem. Fast, easy and away you go. Try pumping up a tire to 120 with a small pump. Good luck. And, if you get close, chances are you will either break the stem or be so tired that you will not want to ride again.

That being said, I keep 3 cartridges with me at all times. 2 in my saddle pack with a small nozzle inflate gizmo and 1 in my jersey pocket with the bigger inflate nozzle gizmo.

Remember, I coach 20 partcipants at any given time. I've never had a reliability issue with CO2.

Oh yeah, Innovations is the best one to use! Actually, it seems like they are the only one on the market.

Steve

[Homsie]

Try the 16g cartridges designed for mtn bike tires...gets a 700x23 right up to 100+ psi

Yup, I know that one of the 16g cartridges will inflate a 700x23 to 100+ psi, but can you find them in bulk anywhere for less than a buck? I haven't been able to find the unthreaded 16g cartridges anywhere for less than a couple of bucks each, so I use the 12g that I can buy at walmart for about .50 each....

I carry three of the 12g on a typical ride (good enough for 2 flats) and if I'm going to be out in the middle of nowhere, I'll throw my mini pump in my rear center jersey pocket. It will inflate a tire enough to limp home or to a gas station where i can use one of the schraeder to presta adapters to top off. Haven't had a 3 flat ride in a while, but I have had one before!! That's why I also carry some of the glueless patches...

James

[Too Tall]

If you are reacting what I said fuggetaboutit. I love CO2 however, think before you flame...if you have three flats using up all your CO2s and gots no pump whatchagonna do call ghostbusters? Eh?

Group riding reduces the chance you will have a problem natch. But when the chips are down and you can't make a mistake carry a good pump. An XL Silca will make 90 PSI in short order and looks good and weighs not much. If you are a real pump dork like I apparently AM when riding tandem for long miles carry one of the jobs that has a fold out handle and foot peg...it will make 130 PSI in REAL short order and it has an extension hose so no worries about broken anything...'sides I never broke no valve stem using a Silca Pump...broke a few pumps but no stems ;)

Again, it is an application thing use the right tool(s) for the job. CO2 GOOD. Pumps GOOD. Tarzan like Jane. Good Cheetah.

I need another beer.

[Homsie]

Too tall, I wasn't trying to flame anybody...just trying to explain what I carry on rides. Have a good weekend...

James

[DfCas]

A 23mm tire inflated to 100psi with CO2 weighs 4 grams more than one inflated with a pump at STP. :banana:

dan