Open house question, Sandy? Climb?

[Ginger]

After all that noise, did the race go off as planned? Who won?

[Sandy]

Climb was too much of a gentleman to even mention the possibility of racing. There is no doubt in my mind that Climb could have made the climb to Lake Desolation twice in the time it took me to do it once.

I was very disheartended and discouraged by my cycling at the Open House this year and I plan to do a lot about it by next year's Open House. Climb will always be far superior to me in cycling, as will be most everyone else, but I will be different and improved next year.I did fine the year before.

Sandy

[Ginger]

Sandy,
I didn't mean to bring up a disenheartening point. You're awfully tough on yourself my friend. Even though you don't think your cycling has improved, I'm sure it has.

And I bet you could still beat him on the descents!

:banana:

[Kevin]

Climb was too much of a gentleman to even mention the possibility of racing. There is no doubt in my mind that Climb could have made the climb to Lake Desolation twice in the time it took me to do it once.

I was very disheartended and discouraged by my cycling at the Open House this year and I plan to do a lot about it by next year's Open House. Climb will always be far superior to me in cycling, as will be most everyone else, but I will be different and improved next year.I did fine the year before.

Sandy

Sandy,

Next year I will make it to the Open House and promise that you will destroy at least one person; me. :beer:

Kevin

[Ti Designs]

I was very disheartended and discouraged by my cycling at the Open House this year and I plan to do a lot about it by next year's Open House. Climb will always be far superior to me in cycling, as will be most everyone else, but I will be different and improved next year.

Sandy,

I've noticed you're grand dislike for hills and that post about being a better hill climber never got a good clear answer (as so few questions on this board ever do) My suggestion is to find a good coach in your area, start with the basics, assume nothing and learn the sport from the ground up. It's something I do every year with the riders I coach, while the start is a lot of work on things so simple you would never think to work on them, I get results. When I say coach, I'm not talking someone who tells you how many hours to ride on which days. I'm talking about someone who will work with you on riding technique. Correcting common problems will make more of a differenc in your climbing and riding than weeks of struggling with the same problems.

[Sandy]

Thanks so much for your suggestions. I actually really enjoy climbing hills. It is just that I m so poor at it, relative to those that I ride with. I feel as if I can accelerate and sprint faster than some of those that drop me so very badly on the hills. I have no confidence and at the first hill, I have already given up.

I know that at 220 or so, I am much too heavy and I know that I am not focused enough in my riding, and that I often ride with slower riders. But maybe, I am just too old, and simply don't have the necessary focus, and endurance to improve very much. I believe my leg strength is adequate for my age. I seem to be able to catch a lot of people on the flats who drop me big time, and quickly, in the hills. Perhaps, I just am not good enough.

I am most fortunate at my age to have the physical and mental ability to enjoy a passion- my passion for cycling. I LOVE it. It has made me a most different person, both physically and emotionally. But sometimes I just get discouraged.

On the Friday ride, I was one of the last ones up the hill to Lake Desolation. I went down the hill very, very slowly since, not knowing the turns on the way down, it was not worth it for me to take any chances. When I got to the bottom, I was quite discouraged, and even embarassed to have everyone waiting for me.

I hope to have the mental toughness and focus to do what is necessary for improvement for next year.

Thank you, Ginger, and Kevin the very kind comments and suggestions given.

Sandy

I

[Ginger]

Ah Sandy, I should have come to Open house, you certainly would have beat me both up and down the hills.
Ti designs has it right. An actual coach would do you wonders. Every time I've gone riding with one my riding has improved.

However, from your last post I see it's your mindset not your riding that's at issue!
After my mortocycle accident I too have issues with speed. People wait for me...that really used to bother me. Embarrass me even.

Then I realized that these people on the rides were not waiting for me because I was slow.
They were waiting for me because they are my friends!

Ride On!

[weisan]

Oh my dear friend S-A-N-D-Y, don't fret. Your prayer has been answered....LOOK! You even get to keep the helmet...:D

weisan

http://www.holycows.net/index_files/Corporate%20Logo.jpg

[BigMac]

My good mate Sanford. Listen to the wise Miss Ginger. Riding is a pleasure and should be enjoyed by those fortunate enough to participate. The folks waited for you at bottom of grade and you were embarassed? Brother, this was not done out of pity, spite nor a means to embarass you, it was an act of kindness, adoration and fondness for your company, humour and spirit. Please, next time this happens, smile, shake a few hands, thank everyone and even have some fun with it. Of all the cyclists I know, I honestly would have thought you more than anyone would have fun and find humour with such circumstances.

Unlike others, I would not support working with a professional coach. You do have some fine friends and mates locally in Smiley and Fly, I'm sure there are others. Perhaps they can pace you and help you with good cadence w/o the overbearing nature of a coaching environment. If you're REALLY serious, you may want to mount a cadence computer on bike and do some interval workouts but honestly I would probably avoid even items as fundamental as this. Cycling is a pleasurable experience for folks like you and I, be greatful you still have the ability to ride w/o excessive pains. You could monitor your weight a bit but I would never suggest a diet for purpose of losing weight, just monitor diet for proper cholesterol and salt intake. When riding, be sure you properly hydrate (H2O only) 30 minutes before a ride, maintain hydration during rides and use moderate electrolyte supplements on rides in excess of 1 hour. Spend a minimum of 30 minutes before and after each ride stretching, not just leg muscles but especially trunk areas like back, abs, neck and hips. Mix it up a bit, do some hiking, try swimming and occasionally push it hard up hills, then on your next ride, avoid the hills and concentrate on long sustained spins averaging 90+rpm cadence for 90 minute minimum. Most of all, learn to enjoy your riding opportunities and when you approach a hill take it in steps where you push hard for 3-5 minutes, relax 2-3, then push hard for another 3-5, etc.

You will never feel comfortable or enjoy riding in the hills if you feel as poorly about your climbing skills as you have expressed herein. If you're the slowest to the summit, so fricken what. Didn't you reach the summit and wasn't it fun? Stop and smell the roses occasionally, life is indeed a grand thing and being last to summit is hardly worth this much fret or "embarassment". Trust me, I speak from personal experience, the opportunity to ride a bicycle, any bicycle is a great opportunity...I wish I could still enjoy it myself...and I am still hopeful that one day I will again.

Ride on!

[Smiley]

Big Mac , Sandy has no problems climbing hills from the rear when he's following a SMOKIN HOT BABE , I guess he failed to mention this point :) . We love the Big Fella to death and I still remember the first HILLY ride we took Sanford on at Black Hills , the man after Lake Desolation should have no more fears , last year he conquerd Spiers Falls . So what does Alexis have in mind next year to torture the big guy with for 2006 ???

[dave thompson]

BigMac! How very nice to 'see' you again on the forum.

[vaxn8r]

Sandy,

I've noticed you're grand dislike for hills and that post about being a better hill climber never got a good clear answer (as so few questions on this board ever do)
Hey HEY HEY! Are you kidding me? There were about 5 pages of well thought out posts in response to Sandy's "problem" with hill climbing. Some excellent suggestions were put forth. I don't agree with your knock on the forum. This is the most helpful group of cyclists, internet or not, I have ever run across. Lots of problems solved around here. IMHO of course.

[Climb01742]

yo big mac, welcome back!!! you've been guininely missed. hope to "see" more of you. your posts are always insightful, helpful and kind.

and sandy...seeing you and riding with you this year at open house was a true pleasure. please don't beat yourself up. the ride up to desolation lake was tough for everyone!!! and saturday's ride was unnecessarily harder because of lousy directions/misplaced arrows/general chaos, whatever. it had nothing to do with you or your fitness. you've got a ton of forum-pals who care about you a lot. isn't that a pretty sweet reward for your riding efforts? :D

[William]

I second what Climb said. Going up and coming down, everyone has their own pace. We all waited for you because we like your company. :) Besides, the heat and humidity was kicking my, and probably most everyones arse that first day so it was tough on everyone. Just do what you can do at your own pace. Devote a day to doing hill intervals (TT can help you out there & set up a regimen for you). Coach? Your choice. I personally don't think they are necessary, but that's just my opinion.

We love you: XOXOX :D . Rhea Basset sends you a wet one. ;)

Vax:
Ti's been on a rant lately. Yes Ti, I read all of your post in the other thread, even the part in the middle where you felt no one would be reading at that point and blathered on. I believe you even knocked everyone in the first photo of the climb up to the lake (correct me if I'm wrong). What gives man? :confused:

BigMac:
Good to have you back. :) Stick around for a while and join us. :beer:

William

[Len J]

Trust me, I speak from personal experience, the opportunity to ride a bicycle, any bicycle is a great opportunity...I wish I could still enjoy it myself...and I am still hopeful that one day I will again.

Ride on!

Big Mac:

Welcome back, didn't realize you couldn't ride........hope it's nothing serious.

Sandy:

"The mind limits what the body can endure."

You may not be a great climber, but as Mac says....you can choose to enjoy it. Will you?


I hope I'm as strong a rider as you are when I'm your age.

Len

[Ti Designs]

Hey HEY HEY! Are you kidding me? There were about 5 pages of well thought out posts in response to Sandy's "problem" with hill climbing. Some excellent suggestions were put forth. I don't agree with your knock on the forum. This is the most helpful group of cyclists, internet or not, I have ever run across. Lots of problems solved around here.

Yeh, but like with any forum, any direction points both ways. Use this thread for example, my take on this is that Sandy has learned to struggle on hills - I've been coaching on the bike for almost 10 years now, probably worked with well over a thousend riders on exactly this. They see a hill, they think "oh no, a hill - must push harder", and their pedal stroke falls apart. They think push harder, but their legs translate that to push longer. They wind up pushing down before the top of the pedal stroke or past the bottom, both take effort, neither does a thing to get you to the top of the hill. My suggestion is to take a step back, correct the problems with power delivery, and go forward from there. BigMac has another take on all of this. He views cycling as an enjoyment activity, not to be confused with the oncentration or efforts of competition. To that end his advice is to skip the coach and enjoy cycling 'cept for those pesky hills. And if you wait another day I'm sure someone else will post yet another suggestion to simply hold onto Climb's seatpost (jerk, you gonna back me up on this one???).

My problem with any forum is that there's no way of establishing who anyone is, so any good info is so often lost in a sea of opinions. On the bike things are different, things are more clear and good answers ring true. For all my opinions, I don't post that often because it gets lost and wastes my time. When I'm coaching you can't get me to shut up (must be that overbearing nature that BigMac talks about) because I know I've established some understanding that I know something about cycling - and it's not the weights of every component on the market...

As for people's views of cycling, there are a number. BigMac thinks it's about enjoying it as it is, and there's something to be said for that. Climb on the other hand sees challenges ahead of him, he works with a coach, he's picked the brains of just about everybody in the bike industry... Others are in it for the technical aspect - I don't understand these people, but I deal with them every day at the bike shop. I feel cycling is a freedom which takes work on skills and work on fitness (yes, they really are two different things). I know what it's like to get on my bike and not worry aout the hills or the distance or the technical challenges (mountain biking) that lay ahead of me - that's where this sport gets good. To that end I still train like I did when I raced because it's just more fun to not have the fear of hills or the fear of getting dropped. When I started coaching I would work differntly with people who raced and people who didn't. On one local ride I saw two people I had worked with, one raced and one was just in it for fun. On the club ride the racer had more fun - they were relaxed riding in the pack, they went for town lines, they stayed with the front group.

My perspecive on this came into clearer view when I took up another sport - rock climbing. In simple terms, I suck. It's not much fun to suck, and poking fun at how much I suck gets old in a hurry. I'm not about to embrace sucking, it's simply no fun. I can give up the sport and try something else with more comfortable shoes, or I can put some effort into learning techniques and building strength. Getting better at rock climbing is a lot like getting better at cycling - beginners think it's all about strength, it's not. In rock climbing there's a saying - "climb like a girl", which means stop trying to be a gorilla and start learning technique.

[Kevan]

I can see now you could really use my help Sans mans.

TellyawhaddaIgonnado, I'm going to ride with you my big brother, yup, right next to you and when I see a hill approaching, I'm gonna turn the conversation on all about me. You know.. things about how great I am, how handsome I am, how people love me... things like that. Brother, when you hear that song you'll be up over that hill faster th'n a Saturn rocket goin' for the moon.

I'll be knocking on your front door 7am, this Father's day. I'll make us some waffles and then we're off!

[victoryfactory]

Sandy;

After reading your posts for years, But never actually meeting you in person,
I was happy to shake your hand as we stood in line at the beginning of the
ride last Saturday. For me the ride was great fun, and meeting you was a
highlight. When I look back on that day, I'll remember those things and not
who got dropped on the climbs.

Victory Factory,
who also lost contact with the group a couple of times,
but recovered in time to finish right behind Bbdave, who's wheel I followed
for the last few miles.

PS: I always wanted to be handed a water bottle out the window of a
yellow Mavic car with a rack of wheels on the top, Dream Accomplished!

[flydhest]

Sandy,

As usual, I'm ready to ride with you and work on your climbing. I don't think you have a realistic view of yourself. Even at your current weight (mine is not too different than yours) and current endurance, you could climb a lot better than you do. What you need is awareness. You can climb much, much better than you do just by changing the technique and attitude. I'm not around this weekend, but I'm around next week after Tuesday if you want to ride some hills in the Park.

[Serotta PETE]

Sandy, come down and ride the hills around DUKE. We can have Professor Flydhest and Lori instruct us on the hills. I need MUCH MORE help on the hills than you do..................


Your bud.


PETE

[weisan]

...For all my opinions, I don't post that often because it gets lost and wastes my time....

Ti-master, please don't fret either. Nothing gets lost here, no, not on this forum with its neat little search capability and infinitely inexpensive storage space.

One day the FBI will come knocking on your door and ask that you do a couple of star-jumps and 180-rpm spins on the rollers just so that they can verify your death certificate. :D

BigMac? Who's this "big-hearted-healthy-meal" man that I heard so much about but never had the privilege to meet or trade posts with? I know I know....he's dbrk and dnovo-reincarnated coming back to haunt us b'cos we never follow his advice.

Welcome back, big guy. Don't go away now...tune down the sensitivity level, take a jab at Sandy or Keven, accept a couple from others, and we can all live like one happy family....old wine is good....it only gets better with age. ;)

weisan

[Ti Designs]

Yes Ti, I read all of your post in the other thread, even the part in the middle where you felt no one would be reading at that point and blathered on. I believe you even knocked everyone in the first photo of the climb up to the lake (correct me if I'm wrong). What gives man?


Must be a midlife crisis... I've put everything into cycling, I work in the cycling industry, I raced for 15 years, I'm out there coaching new riders. My views are simple, it's about the rider, it's about learning to ride, for me it's about teaching others what they wouldn't get by just getting on a bike and pushing the pedals. I belive in that so strongly that I refuse to take payment for coaching until I see results.

Being at the bike shop gets me down at times. I do fittings on people who want aero bikes to go faster, they don't want to hear me spew crap about how they should probably learn how to pedal first. They come in looking for the latest carbon wheels - these are people who can't keep up with my women's B team. But it's retail, so I order the parts and take their money with a [fake] smile.

This forum is my way of looking for an escape from the shop - maybe there's something good posted that I'll want to jump in on. Most of it these days is about new equipment and stuff that isn't going to make much of a difference to most people - but they gotta have it. '06 Ksyriums? A more expensive bike than the Ottrott?? Rotational weight - does it make you a bad person???

The combination of the Serotta ride from Wheelworks and the postings about the open house set me off. Everybody wants to ride the best bike, or go riding with someone famous, or ride someplace other than where they are - the actual riding gets lost in all that.

[Tom]

... Everybody wants to ride the best bike, or go riding with someone famous, or ride someplace other than where they are - the actual riding gets lost in all that.

Man, you're starting to sound like Dr. Brooks! You're right though.

[Smiley]

Just all in a bad day my friend Ti Design . I for one can relate , I have talked people out of spending more for a bike since they did not need it . More expensive never made anybody faster/better . Wishing you a better day .

[weisan]

Ti-master....try meditation, I heard there are many levels one can attain to that end. :D

Seriously speaking though, thanks for getting it out of the system...my solution to this problem is taking jabs at Sandy and Kevan...it's an amazing pressure release valve, TRY IT!!! Once you did it, you never want to look back b'cos it's so much fun and it's FREE! (wink, wink).

weisan

ps. Sandy-pal, our plan is on track, very soon, everyone would have to pay us admission fee for jabbing at you and Kevan. Remember what we agree on, it's a 95/5 split ie. the pimp gets ninety-five, you and Kevan split the rest. ;)

[jeffg]

I could see how you would read BigMac's post as a "just ride" statement. Perhaps it is, since the main thing is enjoyment, however you get there. Sandy, for whatever reason, is being too hard on himself and diluting the joy he should be taking from cycling.

Sure, there are things he (and most of us) could do to improve our cycling. So, should I be depressed, for example, because the first finisher on La Ventoux rode the course at 32km/h and I could only manage a little over 24? No, I am happy because I did my best and am improving. I do not improve every ride out, but I am working to maximize my cycling experience every time out, and that has to be enough.

And to be honest, I would venture your views on cycling basics and BigMac's are not so different. What I have taken from him is the primary importance of pedaling mechanics, strength and flexibility training, nutrition, etc. Despite what he says about his own climbing ability, I am sure he has knocked off Ventoux in much less time than I, and his DMD (Devil Mountain Double) PR is still well beyond my reach.

I guess the real issue is what does Sandy need to get the most out of his cycling? Only he can answer that, but he should know that there are a whole group of us who would love to help him any way we can. Here that, soon to be supersonic spinning salite-slamming Sandy? :banana:

[shaq-d]

Must be a midlife crisis... I've put everything into cycling, I work in the cycling industry, I raced for 15 years, I'm out there coaching new riders. My views are simple, it's about the rider, it's about learning to ride, for me it's about teaching others what they wouldn't get by just getting on a bike and pushing the pedals. I belive in that so strongly that I refuse to take payment for coaching until I see results.


hi Ti Designs... i for one, appreciate your words. i started cycling last year with the local big cycling group, and all the rides i did were essentially alone; those i did where we pacelined were usually when i left the group and saw a small group of 3-4 people working together and joined them, on sunday morning rides. those were also the most fun. i put in 5000km last year, and cycling was great.

but it's even better this year, and i'm cycilng less. i joined a racing club and went through a "skills clinic" on saturday, where we double echeloned for 70km. that was, frankly, the most amazing and funnest cycling experience i've ever had, to be working in a team and going faster with less work. the coach/racer was a funny guy too, yelling at me to stick to my wheel then noticing when i did later on... all this for free (membership dues are $50 cdn, and that's all u pay).

then i did my first time trial yesterday. 15km, 28 minutes, huge wind. it was so big the guy was saying we should knock 2 minutes off our times, lol. anyway, yeah... at the same time i've been doing this, i have now absolutely no interest in upgrading to lighter bike parts or whatever. i don't even flip through catalogues any more, and ROAD and velonews are more interesting now. i have been considering bike pedals that are easier to snap into though, cause it slows me down to look down adn snap in...

sd

[Ginger]

sd:
I've found the not looking down when you clip in thing is a similar mindest to hills. You need to practice (trainer is great for that) and you need to stop thinking that you need to look down and you need to stop looking down! I always used to look down at my feet when I clipped in, but I've found I get clipped in faster now that I don't look anymore.


The reason I suggested a riding coach for Sandy was not for a "ride this many miles today at this pace" type of coach, but for someone who Sandy would meet each week for a month or so to practice certain riding techniques. Someone who is paid to pay attention to Sandy's form during the whole hour. Someone who can help Sandy stayed focused on the task at hand while he's on his bike. It's difficult when you're out on a group ride to pay attention to both your form and where the group is going. And frankly, people can explain things all day long to me but until I see them demonstrated or someone rides next to me and says: No, further back, drop your chest to the bars, etc etc it takes me forever to figure it out on my own.

Once I get back on my mtb, I'll be doing a similar thing because I was off it long enough before my last accident that I've forgotten any skillz I had.

[Climb01742]

for me, it's not either/or. there is the riding. and there is the "stuff". i enjoy both. (ok, i probably enjoy the "stuff" a little too much. ;) ) but both sides of the equation -- the riding and the stuff -- add to the fun. stuff is no substitute for learning to ride "better" (however one chooses to define that.) but riding isn't all there is to riding. you can't separate the equipment from the enjoyment. at least i can't. for me, it's like cars. the pleasure of driving and the pleasure of a particular machine are linked. same with bikes. one bike or another doesn't make me a better rider. but one bike or another changes the "experience" of each ride. some days i feel like riding an ottrott. some days a parlee. some days a peg. no day is better. just different. i enjoy that difference. i can't buy improvement. but i can buy a different experience. those differences give me pleasure. that's my story, and as long as my bank account holds out, i'm sticking to it. :D

[Ginger]

More expensive never made anyone faster or better unless they are in need of a custom bike. Both my speed and my riding technique have improved since I spent money on a bike that fit.


I agree that the other "stuff" won't make you faster...it's the engine...but the stuff is fun! (I'm hearing the echo of my housemate...Why in the world do you have Record 10 speed on your bike, you don't need that...)
No, I don't. But I like it so it's mine!

Climb...I think you and SO Climb need to adopt me...I think I can help with that bank account thing...I think I need another bike. :)

[vaxn8r]

Being at the bike shop gets me down at times. I do fittings on people who want aero bikes to go faster, they don't want to hear me spew crap about how they should probably learn how to pedal first. They come in looking for the latest carbon wheels - these are people who can't keep up with my women's B team. But it's retail, so I order the parts and take their money with a [fake] smile.

With all due respect, ti, and I mean that...I think you're taking the sport and yourself a bit too seriously. Honestly, what is wrong with somebody plunking down their money on something they want, for a sport they enjoy. A lot of people like stuff, whatever hobby/sport. Who "needs" a BMW? Ferrari? A $50,000 home theater?

Don't make it about morals. Oh, you don't need a new bike. You need to learn to ride one first. You could say that about every single person on this forum. I mean, not one of us has proved a real thing on a bike, right?

If a pair of ADA'a is going to make you enjoy cycling more, then be my guest. Go buy a pair. That's my philosophy. I don't need 90% of the bikes or wheels I own, but it makes it more fun for me. Whether or not I know how to pedal up hill.

[bcm119]

With all due respect, ti, and I mean that...I think you're taking the sport and yourself a bit too seriously. Honestly, what is wrong with somebody plunking down their money on something they want, for a sport they enjoy. A lot of people like stuff, whatever hobby/sport. Who "needs" a BMW? Ferrari? A $50,000 home theater?

Don't make it about morals. Oh, you don't need a new bike. You need to learn to ride one first. You could say that about every single person on this forum. I mean, not one of us has proved a real thing on a bike, right?

If a pair of ADA'a is going to make you enjoy cycling more, then be my guest. Go buy a pair. That's my philosophy. I don't need 90% of the bikes or wheels I own, but it makes it more fun for me. Whether or not I know how to pedal up hill.

You took the words out of my mouth. I've never subscribed to the philosophy that one must be "worthy" of his/her expensive bike. For 99% of us, we're just out there trying to have fun, stay healthy, and get our minds off of our work. Improving your riding technique is fun; buying equipment can be fun too. It is usually unrelated, but they both are part of the enjoyment of riding. Taking a spin on some new tires can make me feel like I'm 12 years old again... I wouldn't want to take that away from anyone by saying their skill level doesn't match their equipment.

[Ginger]

I don't think Ti designs is saying that his customers aren't "worthy" of high zoot stuff....

Just that they're buying it to go faster and it isn't going to make them any faster...

Of course, what I've observed is when people buy new stuff, they ride more because...hey, I got new stuff! Which makes them faster because they're riding more...

:banana:

[weisan]

I don't think Ti designs is saying that his customers aren't "worthy" of high zoot stuff....

Just that they're buying it to go faster and it isn't going to make them any faster...


That simple eh? Thanks for clearing that up for us, Miss Ginger. Boy, it's a lot harder trying to decipher what cees-pal is saying than the Ti-Master....even dirt-pal and fly-pal would go nuts over him... :D

[Ginger]

Weisan pal, I could be wrong...the ti guy could be saying that none of us are worthy, but I don't think that was his point.

Generally people here get way too defensive about spending money. Spend it any way you like and go as slow as you like. It's all good.


Of course, I think every single one of you should drop a check in the mail to the MMBA to help gain access to more mtb riding opportunities in Michigan! C'mon, Patron Level! You ALL need to be MMBA members! (No, I don't get any money for being president...only headaches, late nights, and blisters from trail work)

[William]

Ti man, I know where you're coming from. There are just certain habits of human behavior that will never change. Just state the facts, if they continue headlong on their course...smile, let them go and ring them up. It's what they want. Nothing really wrong with that. You'll get through to some and that's great. Same for coaching, I'm sure you're good at it so try to convince those that will listen and don't worry about the rest. Life is too short, especially for a dead guy....speaking of which, dead guys can't have a mid-life crisis can they?

William (the non-stargazer who rides old-school motor specific with anyone who will have him & likes to look at things he can't have) ;)

[vaxn8r]

I don't think Ti designs is saying that his customers aren't "worthy" of high zoot stuff....



Being at the bike shop gets me down at times. I do fittings on people who want aero bikes to go faster, they don't want to hear me spew crap about how they should probably learn how to pedal first. They come in looking for the latest carbon wheels - these are people who can't keep up with my women's B team. But it's retail, so I order the parts and take their money with a [fake] smile.
Well, if you reread the quote I don't see how you can come to another conclusion. They're slower than girls so they shouldn't be buying expensive equipment.

Hey, I agree with the premise. They likely won't be preceptibly faster. But why should that get you down? We're all wanna- be's. Just different levels. Who's to say who's worthy of Zipps?

[Ray]

Generally people here get way too defensive about spending money. Spend it any way you like and go as slow as you like. It's all good.

I propose a new performance value that we could actually measure - cost per mph. The slower you are and the more you spend, the higher your score. I figure that I have in the neighborhood of about $5,000 in my Spectrum - maybe not, but close. I'm really slow and I ride in a very hilly area, so I frequently average only about 15 mph, sometimes even less. So that comes to, what, $333.33 per mph. If we figure that ALL of my bikes figure into how fast I ride on any given day, the value is much higher, but I'm a mere piker compared to some on this forum, so I think you can only count the bike you're on for a given ride. I'm sure a lot of you have more in your bikes, but you're probably faster, maybe even enough to top this. But for this brief shining moment, I proclaim myself the champion until someone else steps up to the challenge :cool: .

Anyone, anyone?

-Ray

[Ti Designs]

With all due respect, ti, and I mean that...I think you're taking the sport and yourself a bit too seriously.

I don't know that I've ever taken myself too seriously.



Who "needs" a BMW? Ferrari? A $50,000 home theater?

I hate multiple choice - I'll take all of the above, and Ginger would like an autographed picture of John Kerry...



I'm not saying any of that suff is bad - I certainly don't need a Serotta, the tricycle I had when I was 3 is probably on a par with my skill level. My point is that the equipment end is all most people know about. Sure, a few people work on their skills, but for every post on this board about skills I can find 25 about equipment. Take a look at the weight weenie board and the ratio moves to 100:1.

Getting back to what started this all, how many people in the past have offered to take the time to work with Sandy in the past? I know someone took the time to sell him a bike... Now I'm thinking of taking some vacation time, going down there to work with him. I'll bet in two weeks I can have him climbing better, being more relaxed on the bike and enjoying it more. Oh yeh, I'm not taking any bets under $2000.

[vaxn8r]

I hear you...and agree with a lot of what you say. I just think that the equipment drives the fun for a lot of us. I'm guilty too. Having said that, I still like to let my legs do the talking on group rides.

My real point is don't let that part of it gripe you. So what if 99% of us are equipment geeks? It makes it fun for me/us.

I like the fitness and technique stuff too. But it is easier to talk equipment because we can all relate to hardware. OTOH, quite a few of us had some advice for Sandy, but only those who ride with him and know him can truly help him...other than him sifting through all our posts and culling the few which he feels really apply to him. Then again, that's exactly what he asked for, our input.

[victoryfactory]

Unlike Lance, For me it IS about the bike.....
My art is geek-ness, my medium is bikes. (and cameras, stereo, computers,
etc.)

VF, I should be ashamed of myself, but I'm not. I'ts only a bad thing if you
are attached to the material things, and don't realize that they are
transitory, an illusion, the Hindus call it maya.

[slowgoing]

It's easy to talk about equipment on the internet. It's not so easy to talk about training or to help someone train.

[Ginger]

Ti designs...*ONLY* if it comes with a free Ottrott!

[flydhest]

Getting back to what started this all, how many people in the past have offered to take the time to work with Sandy in the past? I know someone took the time to sell him a bike... Now I'm thinking of taking some vacation time, going down there to work with him. I'll bet in two weeks I can have him climbing better, being more relaxed on the bike and enjoying it more. Oh yeh, I'm not taking any bets under $2000.

Ti, I agree with a lot of what you've said. My coach of years ago was old-school and all about drills and skills. That said, there are many, many people who have offered to take the time to work with Sandy in the past. I find him a joy to ride with on most occasions because he has a great, compassionate outlook on life and regard for people. I would wager that 9/10 people who meet him would gush about how much they like him. All he has to do is ask the people he knows and then listen to what they say.

[Climb01742]

TAll he has to do is ask the people he knows and then listen to what they say.

and then put in the work, discipline and sacrifice necessary. (a tiny tough-love interlude, written with affection.)

[sc53]

Hey Sandy, I was disheartened to read your disheartened post about the Open House ride. You know, your signature block used to have a haiku-like verse that said something like, "Speed is nice but enjoyment is nicer." Don't lose sight of that mantra! We could all be thinner/fitter/faster/better cyclists and work much harder at it, but unless you're a paid professional, why beat up on yourself if you're slow or feeling out of sorts or not in shape, or just out for a nice ride? Cycling is great recreation as well as a competitive endeavor. I don't think one experience is superior to the other. I guess I'm just not that competitive in nature! I ride to enjoy the outdoors, the smell of the cut grass in the park, the feel of the path under my wheels, the sensation of health and freedom a good ride gives me. If I can't climb a steep hill very fast or very well, so what? That's no measure of my character or my worth, or my "suitability" to own an Ottrott.
IMHO

[Tom]

- Sandy, don't feel bad if the group waits for you. People wait for you because they like riding with you.
- If you want to get better at some part of your riding, ride with people that are really good at it and watch them. For example, as I was losing contact with the lead group this weekend I thought to myself "There's those goddamn blue and white jerseys bobbing up and down again" as the TIAA-CREF guys went up the hills. Monday, the light went on. They looked like that because they kept their backs straight even when they stood to climb. I tried it. Son of a *****, it works really good! My point is, watch these people, try out what they do and see if it works for you.
- Stop and smell the blackberry bushes. The other morning I had a screaming ride going but by the road there were these bushes plastered with white flowers like I hadn't seen before. Finally my curiosity got the best of me so I had to stop and man, are we going to have a berry season up here! Speed is nice but knowing where the berries are going to be is nicer...

[Andreu]

Sr Sandy,
There is a phrase here that cyclists use about training "a poc a poc" - it basically translates in English as "slowly". I use this philosophy quite a lot when I am training - you get better slowly, you lose weight slowly. I was racing alot about 6 years ago then stopped.....I put on weight I enjoyed life in a different way. After a 2 year lay-off it took me another 2 years to regain my fitness. Cycling is not a sprint. To improve or lose weight you need to suffer a little but don't try and get better in 1 month or lose 5 pounds in a week.....you can do it (the newspapers are full of get thin quick diets that work short term and I can improve my hill climbing in a month) but in my experience I go back to where I was before just as quick.
Coach or no-coach?.....I don't know you well enough to advise (although Sr Ti sounds like a good one to me). And whatever you do..... lose the weight and get better on the bike slowly.
A

[Ray]

Hey Sandy, I was disheartened to read your disheartened post about the Open House ride. You know, your signature block used to have a haiku-like verse that said something like, "Speed is nice but enjoyment is nicer." Don't lose sight of that mantra!
Not to beat this dead horse of mine, but WHAT HE SAID!.

Sandy, I also saw you ride a bit a few weeks back at Smiley's ride. You did fine. You're not an A+ rider. So what, most of us aren't! The problem is that a number of folks on this forum ARE, and you're comparing yourself to them instead of the general population of riders. As Climb said, getting significantly better on the climbs will take a lot of work and dedication and discipline. And no matter how much better you get, the odds are that a lot of the folks on this forum will STILL outclimb you because they're way younger and lighter. Unless you want to all but bury yourself with training, you may never ride at that level. I know I won't. And my fear is that the amount of dedication and discipline necessary to do that will make cycling a whole lot less fun for you. And you'll still get dropped by the really fast guys (maybe not by as much, but once you're dropped, it sort of all feels the same). And then you'll be even more frustrated. Which means you'll ultimately do less riding and then your climbing really will suck. Which it doesn't now.

Go for a ride with the fly-man and listen to his tips. Maybe go up north and ride with Ti guy and pay him for a couple of hours of his expertise about climbing skills. And watch strong climbers and emulate some of the things they do. But then try to relax and enjoy the climbs at whatever speed you can do 'em, because then you'll do more of 'em and you'll get somewhat faster and more relaxed just from climbing more. And that'll be the right speed for you to climb.

ENJOY!!!!

-Ray

[JohnS]

I feel as if I can accelerate and sprint faster than some of those that drop me so very badly on the hills. I have no confidence and at the first hill, I have already given up.

I seem to be able to catch a lot of people on the flats who drop me big time, and quickly, in the hills.


Sandy

I
Okay, so you're Cipo instead of Pantani, what's the problem? :beer:

[Ken Robb]

SANDY: Your cranks are too short! :-) :banana:
And climbing for me is a necessary evil so I get out and back from my home and also enjoy the whoopee factor of the descent. (I used "whoopee" because I couldn't spell "exhileration" and this site doesn't have spellcheck.

[jerk]

the jerk goes away for a week and his old pal big mac returns? to answer a whoa-is-me from sandy? did someone put something in the water?

sandy-
listen up. the jerk sucks at hills. he was never able to climb with the climbers...so here's what you do; move to the front of the pack position yourself well and it is much easier to not get dropped.

but first you have to just go out and hurt yourself with some interval work. anyone can ride a 100miles at 18mph. you need to develop some power and then work on your weight. climbing is all about power to weight. replace lunch with intervals and hill repeats. the ratio will get down there. sorry brother for the tough love. you can catch people on the flats because anyone can ride tempo on the flats. go get a coach if you need the discipline. other wise the knowledge is out there and readily availabl.e

jerk

[rnhood]

A little coaching work on form, pedaling, positioning and riding habits may be in order - probably for most everyone here, very much including myself. However, I don't necessarily agree with all that interval, hard mashing and zoom-away spinning & such.

My recommendation is to cycle some around the Parkway, Front Royal, the Winchester area or nearby - places that are beautiful (most in VA are) and have some hills. Ride for enjoyment and concentrate on enjoyment. You leg strength, stamina and bio-rhythms will just fall in place exactly where they should be for the person you are. Don't try to be someone you are not. Everyone's performance will fall off with age so accept it and don't try to be young again. It creates stress and that's not good.

I would seek an experts opinion or guidance on some bio or endurance expectations for your age group and experience and, use this as a benchmark, not the performance your friends are capable of.