Ok. school me on Merckx bikes

[roguedog]

Been googling on this but I can't find any a specific article or review that calls out what makes his bikes coveted, especially MXLs apparently.

Is it just that they were designed by him? I do see mention of his geometry though and about the resultant ride but don't see much describing the ride per se. Though I supposed it's hard to truly describe a ride or perhaps I should say the experience.. kinda like a Peg. Is there something special about his geo or design?

Anyway, have been seeing folks talk about these bikes and finally wanted to shoot it out there for you folks to educate me here.

Tks! I'm "listening" :)

[Louis]

You sure you don't want this in the GD section instead?

[roguedog]

oh ????e.. dang it. mods, please move, if you wish.

sorry bout that!

[texbike]

There's nothing magical. They're just solid, good-handling, responsive, no-nonsense bikes that get the job done. They ride the way a bike should ride.

The mystique is just icing on the cake. :)

Texbike

[bicycletricycle]

the MXL used columbus max tubing which is oversized and ovalized. Many high performance tubesets today have these charecteristics but the MXL has them put together with lugs which does not make it a better bike but in many peoples mind a cooler bike. Other companies built lugged max tubed bikes so there is no monopoly here except that the seat cluster merckx used was nicer. IMHO

also

Eddy is almost universally recognized as the best cyclist ever, having a bike with his name on it is just kinda bad a**

and

he had a head badge that was a picture of himself on it, no one else has got that.

and

the molteni paint scheme is a classic.

[dancinkozmo]

...just get a max tubed hampsten, better than a merckx imho.

[bicycletricycle]

Hampstens are nice but merckx won the giro 5 times

:)

[Fixed]

There's nothing magical. They're just solid, good-handling, responsive, no-nonsense bikes that get the job done. They ride the way a bike should ride.

The mystique is just icing on the cake. :)

Texbike
that is about it

[Fixed]

the MXL used columbus max tubing which is oversized and ovalized. Many high performance tubesets today have these charecteristics but the MXL has them put together with lugs which does not make it a better bike but in many peoples mind a cooler bike. Other companies built lugged max tubed bikes so there is no monopoly here except that the seat cluster merckx used was nicer. IMHO

also

Eddy is almost universally recognized as the best cyclist ever, having a bike with his name on it is just kinda bad a**

and

he had a head badge that was a picture of himself on it, no one else has got that.

and

the molteni paint scheme is a classic.
+1
cheers

[Aaron O]

The MXLs are pretty similar to Columbus MAX as I understand it...I've never ridden MXL, but have ridden MAX and I absoutely love it. It's best for heavier riders (me) or riders that put out a lot of wattage (also me). It's no heavier than SL (actually a fraction lighter), it's stiff and it provides a very smooth ride.

I've only ridden one Merckx (Reynolds 753), and honestly I'm not wild about it at all. Keep in mind it was a custom build for Steve Bauer, and not sized for me. The ST is too short in comparison to the TT for me to really get comfortable and the handling isn't great for me. I rarely ride the bike, and when I do...it's on a casual ride where I'm showing off.

[eddief]

are known to have some very slack seat tube angles. my guess is many who rave about them are those who are most comfortable with more setback. not sure i know of any other off the rack race-type bikes that feature such.

http://www.bikyle.com/MerckxGeometry.htm

[benb]

Nice.. I'd fit well on those. I don't know that I've ever walked into a shop and seen EM bikes for sale though even though I have seen riders on them.

Have these bikes always been made by the same company? Anyone older know? I wasn't even born yet when Merckx was destroying everyone.. but I have noticed he was already riding bikes branded as Merckx during his careers..

Curious what the history of the brand is.. something like Lemond? Or something else entirely?

[Fixed]

Colnago has sponsored at least one professional team every year since the 1970s, often sponsoring several. In the 1970s, Colnago sponsored the Molteni team, which included Eddy Merckx.
cheers

[lhuerta]

The ride of Merckx steel frames is really about the CENTURY geometry. I have owned Merckx frames in the designated RACE geo and in the CENTURY geo, and the two rides simply did not compare, The slacker angles, slightly longer wheelbase and increased BB drop of the century geo frames (found on models MXL, Century, Cora 0.1 and a few others) is simply sublime. Not to mention the nicer tubesets that were used on these models (MAX, TSX, Deda Zero). The race geo frames is to run of the mill with their steeper seat and head angles, while the century geo is simply more stable, better balanced and feels like you are always planted to the road, especially in high speed descents.

The century geo, however, doesn’t work for everyone. What one person finds sublime, another might find simply unattractive. So, like any frame, the Merckx frames will only be “magical” for you if the geo fits your body and riding style.

EM3

PS - a few corrections on posts above
*Aaron O…MXL tubests are made from MAX tubing, with the exception of a few tubes that were slightly different shape, and in some later production models some tubes were replaced with other Columbus tubes.

*eddief…the OP was referring to original steel Merckx frames, whose geo is slightly different then the late model Merckx frames. Here is the original Merckx Century geo table:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9091/eddymerckxcenturygeomet.jpg

[Aaron O]

Merckx was sold to another company a year or two ago.

The history of Merckx branded bikes is complex...he had a few folks building his bikes and he labeled them with Merckx decals. Colnago and De Rosa both made frames that had Merckx decals. Later, he had an arrangement with Falcon and there are Falcons, mid-range bikes, with Merckx decals. Some consider them Merckx bikes, I don't. The story is that early Merckx company -produced bikes were actually built by De Rosa, and after a year or two, he began making his own.

[christian]

Early Merckxs were Colnagos and De Rosas, primarily. Ugo De Rosa then helped Eddy set up his own factory in Belgium. So, newer Merckxs are Merckxs, even if it's pretty safe to assume Eddy did no brazing. Where the carbon ones come from I don't know, nor care.

[christian]

BTW, the purported makers of Merckx's racing bikes is here:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Benelux/Merckx/bicycle_makers.htm

[Bob Ross]

Eddy is almost universally recognized as the best cyclist ever, having a bike with his name on it is just kinda bad a**



You would think...

But that reminds me of one of the very first club rides I ever went on: It was led by a husband & wife; he took the A riders, she took the C riders. (I went with her.)

But one of the A riders that day showed up on a Merckx bike, wearing a matching full Merckx kit. A surly punk who talked a lot of trash, bragged a bit ("that's not a hill; we don't even downshift for that!"), looked down his nose at the C riders, etc. etc.

So for the entire first ~25% of the ride when the A's & C's rode together out of the city, Mrs. Ride Leader kept referring to this guy as "Eddie". Really put him in his place wonderfully.

I think back on that ride fondly whenever I see a Merckx bike.

[fiamme red]

So for the entire first ~25% of the ride when the A's & C's rode together out of the city, Mrs. Ride Leader kept referring to this guy as "Eddie". Really put him in his place wonderfully.

I think back on that ride fondly whenever I see a Merckx bike.I rode my Eddy Merckx on a brevet this past weekend, and one of the riders in our small group is named Eddy (he was on a Seven, not a Merckx). So it would have been confusing if someone had addressed me as Eddy. :)

[MadRocketSci]

Just curious, anyone know what the head tube angles for the century-geo merckx's were? Or is that still classified information?

[Aaron O]

You would think...

But that reminds me of one of the very first club rides I ever went on: It was led by a husband & wife; he took the A riders, she took the C riders. (I went with her.)

But one of the A riders that day showed up on a Merckx bike, wearing a matching full Merckx kit. A surly punk who talked a lot of trash, bragged a bit ("that's not a hill; we don't even downshift for that!"), looked down his nose at the C riders, etc. etc.

So for the entire first ~25% of the ride when the A's & C's rode together out of the city, Mrs. Ride Leader kept referring to this guy as "Eddie". Really put him in his place wonderfully.

I think back on that ride fondly whenever I see a Merckx bike.

Calling him Eddie was probably one of the nicer things she could have called him. I can think of others!

[christian]

Just curious, anyone know what the head tube angles for the century-geo merckx's were? Or is that still classified information?The smaller ones may have more kicked-out HTAs, but my 57cm MXL is as close to 73 degrees as I can measure with my protractor.

[torquer]

he had a head badge that was a picture of himself on it, no one else has got that.


Saronni got that, too. End of comparison.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zpbx71xv5OM/SuDe7YyIa5I/AAAAAAAAAFQ/Doe93jPMRSU/s320/saronni2.jpg
I sort of recall Hampsten doing something similar, too, maybe for a special edition. I'd check across the hall (Steve hangs out there) but I can't get there from here (work).

[Fixed]

nice
thanks for the cool nago pic.
cheers

[christian]

I sort of recall Hampsten doing something similar, too, maybe for a special edition.Hampsten Giro '88's, but it's on the seat tube.

See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11397373@N03/4664915730/in/set-72157624191920536

[that guy]

Colnago has sponsored at least one professional team every year since the 1970s, often sponsoring several. In the 1970s, Colnago sponsored the Molteni team, which included Eddy Merckx.
cheers

I'm pretty sure there was a year recently when no pro tour team was riding colnago. Maybe when rabobank went to Giant?

[Fixed]

I'm pretty sure there was a year recently when no pro tour team was riding collage. Maybe when rabobank went to Giant?
sorry
you are sadly correct
cheers

[that guy]

Fun fact: the iPhone auto-corrects 'colnago' to 'college'

[dawgie]

I have two Merckx, a Corsa 01 and an AX (ti), both with the Century geometry. They are very nice handling, stable bikes that inspire confidence -- what is commonly referred to as riding on rails. Before I got the Corsa, I rode a GIOS, which was a fun bike but the handling was much quicker and less stable. Merckx are great for long rides and twisty, curvy downhills.

While the MX Leader seems to get most of the buzz, the Corsa 01 is more suitable for many riders. The Max tubing is overkill for lighter riders (probably anyone less than 190 lbs), and Zero Uno provides a more comfortable ride. Years ago, I read a road test in one of the more reputable cycling magazines (can't remember which one but it wasn't Bicycling), and the reviewer said the Corsa 01 was the best handling bike he had ever ridden.

However, if you prefer bikes with steep angles and quick steering, then Merckx century bikes are not the ticket.

[mistermo]

[QUOTE=lhuerta]The CENTURY geometry.....[found on models MXL, Century, Cora 0.1 and a few others) is simply sublime].

Is the Century geometry found on all MXLs, and Corsa 0.1s?

[mistermo]

I just had my Corsa 01 repainted in 7-Eleven colors thanks to Allan Wanta.

*Headbadge changed to Eddy's image
*Since it's a Corsa 01 w/ Dedaciai tubing, the proper decal was used.
*Fork rechromed

I'm in the process of building with "modern" 10 speed Campy Record.

As an aside, I've had lots of bikes. Apart from this, the two best handling bikes I've had were my Pinarello Montello (Columbus SLX) built for me by Mr. Pinarello, when I was in Treviso. And my Steelman Eurocross (Dedaciai Zero Uno).

I won't claim that I can tell the difference between tubesets, but the Dedaciai ZeroUno -tubed bikes have always worked very well for me.

[christian]

All stock Corsas and MXLs are century geometry. There may have been some custom ones too, but I've never seen one.

My old ex-Axel MXL. Too big for me, so I sold it.
http://www.christianedstrom.com/merckx/008.jpg

[shankldu]

It would seem that a more slack head tube would slow handling ,but give a more compliant ride in the front ,just my 2 cents.

[slowgoing]

If you get a chance, you really should ride a corsa. I have a ’93. It is unlike any other bike I have ridden. The best description of its ride was given by Climb, who called it a diesel. It likes to go fast, forces you to take it up to speed, feels solid and sturdy like it will plow through and over anything, but at the same time, it takes very little wattage to keep it going once up to speed. So you spend most of your energy getting it up to the low wattage plateau, and then watch the miles tick away while you feel like you could plow over anything that gets in your way. Fork is a bit harsh, the entire ride is not as smooth as a MXL.

[mistermo]

If you get a chance, you really should ride a corsa.

By "Corsa", you mean a Corsa 01, rather than a Corsa Extra?

[slowgoing]

Mine is a plain "corsa" which is made of SL tubing and was out before the "corsa extra," which was SLX. Corsa 01 was many years later.

Not sure if the corsa extras or corsa 01s rode the same way, no experience with them.

[roguedog]

hey thanks for the education guys.

why is it that the corsa and the mxl seem to be the ones that stood the test of time? i'm assuming there were other models but these 2 are the primary ones i hear about.

also, was/is his century geo something that was different from what was offered at the time? i thought bikes of earlier eras were a bit more slack and had more of a sport touring geo..? or am i getting my era's mixed?

i love that the top tube are like 51.8. kinda cool given his rep for carrying around a tape measure all the time.

[roguedog]

oh.. and are only older merckx's worth the drool or are newer ones tweaked since it looks like they are running more towards carbon bikes.

it seems like the sweet era everyone drool's over are the 90s?

jus' askin in case one happens my way one of these days :) and might be worht adopting.

[Fixed]

my corsa likes rough roads
cheers

[mistermo]

oh.. and are only older merckx's worth the drool or are newer ones tweaked since it looks like they are running more towards carbon bikes.

it seems like the sweet era everyone drool's over are the 90s?

jus' askin in case one happens my way one of these days :) and might be worht adopting.

This is my opinion, and only that...

The steel Merckx's from the '80s and '90s are the most drool worthy. Prior to that, the Falcon made Merckx's were little more than frames made with plumbing pipes. The Merckx's made with Columbus SL, SLX, SPX, TSX, Max along with Reynolds 753 and Dedacciai, hit the sweet spot of the brand. There are a few models of Corsa's: Corsa, Corsa Extra, Corsa 01, and maybe others I don't recall. IIRC, the Century model was a Corsa Extra with the century geometry. Of course, the MX Leaders are considered by some, the most coveted because they were the last steel bikes, at the end of the line, and used the nice MAX tubes.

Merckx also had Litespeed make some ti bikes, but I don't believe they carry the same cache since they're only a rebranded Litespeed. I'm a fan of steel bikes, and I think carbon Merckx's are like the Litespeed Merck's: rebranded carbon bikes.

I think that one of the intangibles that makes the Merckx's collectible is their connection to him and many good riders who've ridden the brand over the years. They seem to carry some soul within them.

...just my .02

[nelson]

The Corsa Extra (SLX) was Professional Geometry, it was never Century (except for the limited edition 7-11 replica offered just a few years ago). Century Geometry came out with the Reynolds 653 Century model in 1989. In 1990 it went to TSX. The Corsa (SL) and Corsa Extra continued in the older geometry until they were discontinued. The ti frames were manufactured by LiteSpeed, but the geometry and design were all Merckx. I think building these for Merckx helped LiteSpeed learn a lot about designing frames. They made huge improvements in their designs soon after starting this joint project. Merckx now has one of the most talented carbon fiber engineers in the business who has helped develop their latest carbon frames. There is a lot of innovation there, including the first industry use of pitch-based carbon and Eddy still tweaks the geometry to his liking. The 2011 EMX5 and EMX7 are fairly high-trail frames which carry the legendary Merckx stability to a new level.

[Aaron O]

I honestly don't think my Merckx is anything special in ride, workmanship or aesthetics. It's just a bike and a somewhat sluggish one at that. I don't think it has a dramatic increased comfort level from the sluggish geometry.

Some of this might be that it's a custom, and not a custom built for me. Frankly my 1973 Raleigh International has the same TT and ST measurements, the same level of handling, but better comfort (with 23c tires on both).

[zmudshark]

Aaron, Isn't your Merckx a custom for Steve Bauer? He was notorious for wacky geometry. That may have something to do with it.

My '85 Professional is a wonderful ride, even if the workmanship isn't anything spectacular. It is a tool meant for a task, and it performs that task well.

[oldpotatoe]

Merckx was sold to another company a year or two ago.

The history of Merckx branded bikes is complex...he had a few folks building his bikes and he labeled them with Merckx decals. Colnago and De Rosa both made frames that had Merckx decals. Later, he had an arrangement with Falcon and there are Falcons, mid-range bikes, with Merckx decals. Some consider them Merckx bikes, I don't. The story is that early Merckx company -produced bikes were actually built by De Rosa, and after a year or two, he began making his own.

Pretty close. 1980 was the first year of Merckx bicycles for sale(not Falcon) and they were indeed make in Belgium in Eddy's factory. Previous models of Merckx(raced in Molteni) were made by DeRosa and before that thru Faema, Colnago. The close associaytion of Ugo and Eddy is why merckx and DeRosa geometrys are so close.

BTW-A high end Merckx/Falcon made of 531 is a pretty nice ride. Rare tho.

My Merckx MXLeader, along with an older Ciocc, were then finest riding bikes I have ever had, period. I also liked my Mondonico, one of the last made by Antonio, Neuron tubing..but it broke at the seatstay/rear dropout and the 'service' I received from Torelli caused me to drop Torelli and Mondonico.

[Aaron O]

Aaron, Isn't your Merckx a custom for Steve Bauer? He was notorious for wacky geometry. That may have something to do with it.

My '85 Professional is a wonderful ride, even if the workmanship isn't anything spectacular. It is a tool meant for a task, and it performs that task well.

He had that one insane bike...but this one conforms to fairly standard Merckx team bike geometry (long TT, but not radical). The ST is 53, the TT is 56. Judging from the other Merckx teams bike I've been able to find, that was pretty standard. I also read an interview with some of the 7-11/Motorola riders, and a rider (not Bauer) mentioned how the whole team was on bikes with longer TTs.

I do think the bike being custom for a pro rider plays a role in my reaction to it.

The workmanship is not especially impressive...no better than my old stock De Rosa Professional and notably less refined than my Sachs, Serotta and Marnati.

This article has some interesting information, as well as some riders talking about Merckx's "radical" geometry.

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/ARCHIVE-HOME-PAGE--LATEST-FEATURES/content/100/75/The-Real-Story-Of-The-7-Eleven-Team-Bikes.html

[Aaron O]

Pretty close. 1980 was the first year of Merckx bicycles for sale(not Falcon) and they were indeed make in Belgium in Eddy's factory. Previous models of Merckx(raced in Molteni) were made by DeRosa and before that thru Faema, Colnago. The close associaytion of Ugo and Eddy is why merckx and DeRosa geometrys are so close.

BTW-A high end Merckx/Falcon made of 531 is a pretty nice ride. Rare tho.

My Merckx MXLeader, along with an older Ciocc, were then finest riding bikes I have ever had, period. I also liked my Mondonico, one of the last made by Antonio, Neuron tubing..but it broke at the seatstay/rear dropout and the 'service' I received from Torelli caused me to drop Torelli and Mondonico.

I should have been more specific, because it left room for confusion. The early Merckx bikes in Belgium used some De Rosa bits and pieces and were supposedly designed by Ugo. At least that's what I've read from people who know more than me :)

[christian]

The ST is 53, the TT is 56. Judging from the other Merckx teams bike I've been able to find, that was pretty standard.Sorry, but that's different enough from "century" geometry to be render it basically irrelevant in this discussion. It's within the realms of "standard" diamond-frame racing bicycle geometry, but it's not even close to the stock geometry of the MXLs and Corsas people are discussing.

[Aaron O]

Sorry, but that's different enough from "century" geometry to be render it basically irrelevant in this discussion. It's within the realms of "standard" diamond-frame racing bicycle geometry, but it's not even close to the stock geometry of the MXLs and Corsas people are discussing.

Fair enough...and probably valid.

[torquer]

BTW-A high end Merckx/Falcon made of 531 is a pretty nice ride. Rare tho.
There was a discussion about Merckx bikes of the Falcon era across the hall a while ago; impression that I got was that contemporary Merckx-branded Kessels from Belgium were the shizzle, while the Falcons were several steps down the quality and desirablility ladder. That seemed right to me, not based upon any riding experience, but rather because it seemed like every NYC bike messenger in the early 80's was rockin' a distressed Moltini replica, complete with orange bartape minimally protecting the main tubes from the heavy, unsleeved chains that were standard issue in those days.
OP, by "high end Merckx/Falcon," are you saying some of these bikes didn't deserve that fate?

[zmudshark]

I just went and measured my 54cm Professional, it has a 54.5 TT. A bike that is 53X56 is WAY out of whack for a 'normal' Merckx frame. I can't imagine it rides anywhere near what one would call typical.

[fiamme red]

The Kessels frames, besides being much more nicely built, were also racier (i.e., Kermesse geometry). The Falcons had a more laid-back geometry.

Here are two Kessels:

http://www.speedbicycles.ch/showBike.php?enr=303

http://www.speedbicycles.ch/showBike.php?enr=227

[jroden]

I had a Corsa for many years and when it rusted through replaced it with an MXL. I have to assume that when the corsa was made, the MXL had the same geometry as the Corsa, but my newer MXL had fairly different geometry to the point where I am riding a 60 size frame to get a 58.5 top tube, which to my recollection I had with my 58 Corsa.

In any event, I liked the Corsa and raced it for many year, sometimes the lower BB got me in trouble in crits but it was a nice comfy bike. It tended to have a fair bit of flex in the BB area to the extent that the front derailleur would rub when I sprinted.

Getting on the MXL was a real treat, all the flex that I felt in the Corsa was gone and the larger frame set the BB up a little higher. The bike is very stiff and sprints nicely and provides a stable comfortable ride.

It's very heavy by today's standards, around 23 pounds on my scale. I really like it a lot, it's just a nice bike to ride. It's still just another bike, I don't hesitate to ride it down dirt roads or forest trails if the urge pops into my little brain.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/jroden99/hell002.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/jroden99/DSC00964.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/jroden99/em5.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

There was a discussion about Merckx bikes of the Falcon era across the hall a while ago; impression that I got was that contemporary Merckx-branded Kessels from Belgium were the shizzle, while the Falcons were several steps down the quality and desirablility ladder. That seemed right to me, not based upon any riding experience, but rather because it seemed like every NYC bike messenger in the early 80's was rockin' a distressed Moltini replica, complete with orange bartape minimally protecting the main tubes from the heavy, unsleeved chains that were standard issue in those days.
OP, by "high end Merckx/Falcon," are you saying some of these bikes didn't deserve that fate?

I have seen a picture of one Falcon/Merckx made with 531, w/o the crappy dropouts and lousey workmanship of the typical 70s Falcons. This was pretty nice.

[dawgie]

The titanium Merckx frames were not simply rebranded Litespeeds. Although Litespeed manufactured the frames, they were made to Merckx specs and geometry. I have a 57 cm Corsa 01 and an AX (ti), and they both have identical dimensions and geometry; they handle and ride very similarly.

Not all Corsas have the Century geometry. Some have the Criterium geometry with steeper seat tube angles and other differences.