Need a person with knowledge of Rivendell Models and Maybe Rohloff

[Aaron O]

I have some photos of a Rivendell, not very good ones, and was hoping someone could tell me the model and maybe a bit about it...also have a side shot of the IGH, and I know little about IGH hubs. I suspect it's a Rohloff based on some things the owner said, but am hoping someone can ID it.

Here's the rub...I can't show photos at work, person must be willing to have me forward them the email.

[goonster]

PM sent

I will say this: even if we exclude the customs, there are a lot of Rivs out there that were prototypes, one-off's, part of very small lots and just general oddballs that a simple, positive ID is not always possible with a cursory inspection.

[christian]

Ah, this one was easy.

Weird, but easy.

[Aaron O]

Thanks so much gents! Now i just have to decide what to do with it, assuming I get it.

[christian]

Ride it to the farmers market in welding glasses, Crocs, and a seersucker shirt?

I keed, I keed!

[Aaron O]

Heh! I've never seen angles that slack, on anything...not even a Surly. It must handle like a tandem.

[goonster]

Really hard to say what the bike was intended to do without knowing more about the original owner. Remember, Grant designed the '87 MB-1, which started the trend away from super-slack MTB angles.

It's an odd one, that's for sure.

[skijoring]

post a photo of this strange beast, goonster. :beer:

[cnighbor1]

Ask Grant Petersen at rivendell. His email on their web site

[Aaron O]

Home from work...can post the lousy photos now.

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/riv1-1.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/riv2.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/riv3.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/riv4.jpg

[roydyates]

Ah, this one was easy.

Weird, but easy.
I scrolled down and looked at the photos.

Weird? Yes! Easy? Not for me. Ya gotta give us a clue.

Also, what's the red car behind the bike?

[skijoring]

quickbeam variant?

[Aaron O]

Christian and Goon both said custom, Joe Bell paint and high end builder. Honestly, I think it looks ridiculous as a rider. Those angles look exaggerated to the level of mockery. I'll try it out...but this looks like a flip all the way, even if it is probably sized right for me.

[roydyates]

Christian and Goon both said custom, Joe Bell paint and high end builder. Honestly, I think it looks ridiculous as a rider. Those angles look exaggerated to the level of mockery. I'll try it out...but this looks like a flip all the way, even if it is probably sized right for me.

Is it possible those are 26 inch (559) wheels on a 700c touring frame? I can't see the brake bridge which might show that it's not.

In any case, I'll look forward to a full ride report.

[christian]

It's a riv custom with Nexus 7 rear hub and Nexus roller brake front hub. Goon and I agree it's a Starck/Goodrich era bike. The car is a Fiat Cinquecento (500).

[bicycletricycle]

those are waterford dropouts, im going with early waterford built riv custom all rounder spec model. It was an early option made to mimic the awesome bridgestone XO series. This one was made with horizontals. I have those same dropouts on a waterford track frame.

[Louis]

there are a lot of Rivs out there that were prototypes, one-off's, part of very small lots and just general oddballs

To put it another way, Grant has had so many kooky ideas and projects, they sometimes overshadow the great ones.

[Aaron O]

Those angles look absurd to me...I'll give it a shot, but I don't see this working out; especially not as a mountain bike build.

[Louis]

Those angles look absurd to me...I'll give it a shot, but I don't see this working out; especially not as a mountain bike build.

As long as you can get the saddle where you want it relative to the BB, ST angle is almost meaningless.

Edit: of course it also affects TT, so a super-slack STA makes the TT appear to be longer, but the more important issue (at least the way I think of things) is how the dimension are relative to the BB (the one thing on the frame you can't move).

[bicycletricycle]

that bike is also totally sweet, I know most of the people here are performance bicycle oriented however a huge amount of the bicycles ridden on this green earth have 65 degree angles with high bars and ride like boats. They are really fun and super usefull. Nothing wrong with someone making a nice one.

I have one of these in the stable-

http://www.workcycles.com/home-products/handmade-city-bicycles/workcycles-opafiets

it is a really good time around town, a pig going uphill but if it gets too steep i just walk it :) It has got a center stand, rack rated for 150 pounds with integrated bungees, generator lighting front and back, fenders, centering spring on the fork to keep the bars straight when its parked, bolt upright position, 8 speed internal, sealed roller brakes, sealed chain case to keep my pants clean and a back ache from carrying it up stairs.

I would buy this bike in a minute.

[roydyates]

It's a riv custom with Nexus 7 rear hub and Nexus roller brake front hub. Goon and I agree it's a Starck/Goodrich era bike. The car is a Fiat Cinquecento (500).
Thanks ... for the Fiat pointer.

As for the bike, I still think it might have small wheels and seem less crazy with 700c wheels.

[Aaron O]

Maybe the ubiquitous and trendy 650bs?

[Aaron O]

that bike is also totally sweet, I know most of the people here are performance bicycle oriented however a huge amount of the bicycles ridden on this green earth have 65 degree angles with high bars and ride like boats. They are really fun and super usefull. Nothing wrong with someone making a nice one.

I have one of these in the stable-

http://www.workcycles.com/home-products/handmade-city-bicycles/workcycles-opafiets

it is a really good time around town, a pig going uphill but if it gets too steep i just walk it :) It has got a center stand, rack rated for 150 pounds with integrated bungees, generator lighting front and back, fenders, centering spring on the fork to keep the bars straight when its parked, bolt upright position, 8 speed internal, sealed roller brakes, sealed chain case to keep my pants clean and a back ache from carrying it up stairs.

I would buy this bike in a minute.

I'll give it a shot...

I had a bike sort of like this in style, a Surly Karate Monkey with a 9sp IGH, generator hub and mustache bars. I HATED it, though this one might be different in feel. Part of what annoyed me so much was the lack of a QR hub...I REALLY like QR hubs. I initially thought the rear was a rohloff based on some comments the current owner made, and I thought that might make it bearable because rohloffs work with QR.

I'm actually not buying it...it's a trade for my awesome Schwinn Triplet. I'd MUCH rather have the triplet, and think it's a much more interesting bike, but I just don't have the space.

[bicycletricycle]

this frame was made pre trendy 650b, no one was making tires then.

[bicycletricycle]

your not going to like this bike then, getting nexus hubs off is in no way quick. Both shifter and brake cables are kind of a pain to get off. Use tires that never get flats and you will be fine. If you ever sell it give me a ring, i have a friend who would love it :)

[Aaron O]

If it rides nicely, whose to say it couldn't get a rohloff? It would have to be a pretty damned nice ride though...those things are PRICEY as I recall. I'll give you a shout should that occur.

The QR issue would be relevant because if this were kept, it would have to double as a winter bike...with studded tires...meaning frequent swaps.

[Louis]

If you don't like it, keep the triple.

[Aaron O]

If you don't like it, keep the triple.

It's not an option :(

The triplet lives with my parents in the burbs...they have a nice garage and it hangs from the ceiling. They're moving into a condo and don't have space. I live in downtown Philly and just don't have room for it. It's also just not realistic here...can you imagine riding a triplet through Philly congested streets? I had wanted it to go to my sister, but she married an idiot and I just don't see them ever fixing this up. If it goes to her...he'll take it when they invariably separate and it will rot unused.

This deal works out perfectly for me...the guy getting it lives in South Philly with two daughters. It will be used as it was meant to be used and I've made a deal with the future owner bartering riding privileges for restoration help.

My last trade ended a bit like this too...I got Steve Bauer's Motorola Merckx, which is quite cool hanging from a hook, but isn't my favorite rider.

[bicycletricycle]

those nexus roller brakes work like crap all the time, especially in the winter so be careful out there. if you dont have a frame with rohloff specific dropouts than you will still have to have some wrenches to remove the torque arm from the chainstay. The only way to have a real quick release internal hub setup is to have a frame made for a rohloff with special vertical dropouts and a eccentric bottom bracket. I think that rohloff requires that you use a bolt on axle with horizontal dropouts like this.

the pour mans way to have a full quick release rohloff is to use a disc brake frame and a chain tensioner. Rohloff make a thing called a dog bone (i think) that bolts to the disc mounts and replaces the long torque arm.

[Aaron O]

those nexus roller brakes work like crap all the time, especially in the winter so be careful out there. if you dont have a frame with rohloff specific dropouts than you will still have to have some wrenches to remove the torque arm from the chainstay. The only way to have a real quick release internal hub setup is to have a frame made for a rohloff with special vertical dropouts and a eccentric bottom bracket. I think that rohloff requires that you use a bolt on axle with horizontal dropouts like this.

the pour mans way to have a full quick release rohloff is to use a disc brake frame and a chain tensioner. Rohloff make a thing called a dog bone (i think) that bolts to the disc mounts and replaces the long torque arm.

Add a rear v brake or canti? I didn't know front roller brakes existed until today. Bizarre. I'm kind of a stickler for being able to stop quickly, especially in winter. This just seems like a plane that's not getting off the ground.

Thanks for the rohloff background, I had no idea they weren't QR with any bike. I really don't know IGH stuff well at all.

[bicycletricycle]

looks like no other brake mounts so your are stuck with the rollers or getting the frame modified but that would be a shame. Getting internal hubs right can be a pain sometimes.

[Aaron O]

looks like no other brake mounts so your are stuck with the rollers or getting the frame modified but that would be a shame. Getting internal hubs right can be a pain sometimes.

I guess I'll just have to see how bad the rollers really are. I thought I saw some canti mounts on the rear, but it's just the license plate of the car. The photo is so bad that it's hard to see details.

Goon made a comment that I think seems to be very accurate...this is a $4000 version of a $400 bike. It makes no sense to have racks or fenders on a bike with weak braking...more weight means even worse stopping and if the brakes are not good, you won't want to use it in the rain, so why bother with fenders?

I'm sure it will be very beautiful, but it's not changing my mind about Rivendell/GP at all. Of course it could have been a customer request, absolving him from most blame.

[goonster]

Of course it could have been a customer request, absolving him from most blame.
I'm sure this was customer-driven, and I've never seen another Riv custom like this. Grant has been known to accomodate some unusual requests if he thinks they are functional and the bike will be ridden. Sadly, this bike appears not to have been ridden much at all.

Bicycletricycle, that's a good catch on the dropouts, as I did not recognize them. However, I would not take that as a surefire indication that the frame was built by Waterford.

The wheels are definitely not 650b, as the tires appear to be Avocet Cross II, which were not available in that size.

[bicycletricycle]

i know that waterford has these dropouts cut for them and that they are not a henry james or some other stock deal. That plus the lug style and 26" wheels say that this thing is an early waterford custom I think.

[Aaron O]

I'm sure this was customer-driven, and I've never seen another Riv custom like this. Grant has been known to accomodate some unusual requests if he thinks they are functional and the bike will be ridden. Sadly, this bike appears not to have been ridden much at all.

Bicycletricycle, that's a good catch on the dropouts, as I did not recognize them. However, I would not take that as a surefire indication that the frame was built by Waterford.

The wheels are definitely not 650b, as the tires appear to be Avocet Cross II, which were not available in that size.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it rides...that's for sure. That insanely long top tube, combined with the ridiculous stem, are making me think mustache bars.

[markie]

The bike looks like it is begging for some fixed gear action, at least that would solve the rear braking issues.

Are there any bikes with a larger gap between the rear wheel and the seat-tube? They must be 700c stays on a 26".

I too would think about a moustache bar.

[Aaron O]

The bike looks like it is begging for some fixed gear action, at least that would solve the rear braking issues.

Are there any bikes with a larger gap between the rear wheel and the seat-tube? They must be 700c stays on a 26".

I too would think about a moustache bar.

I thought fixed...but I've never fancied myself a fixie rider, and if I wanted to go that way, I'd go flip flop and front brake, which this can't do. It's the longest tail I've ever seen on a bike...it almost looks like a parody of Riv's philosophy.

[markie]

I ride fixed all-the-time. It was/is addictive for me. Even the MTB is fixed.

That bike looks like it is going to be a smooth and stable ride. I think that would be great for a round town/ easy-trail/ fixie with fenders.

Like my quickbeam, but goofier looking.

Here is mine hanging out on a frozen lake with studded tyres:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4358339432_8f4c7ec761_z.jpg

[Aaron O]

I took a look at the Rivendell...it's beautiful and looks unridden. It was apparently a display bike that took a long and winding road to its current owner, and possibly to me. It's very small and I'll need to work a lot with positioning if I intend to ride it.

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo0618.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo0619.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo0620.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo0621.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo0622.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo0623.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo0624.jpg

Serial Number - H96101

[Louis]

It's very small and I'll need to work a lot with positioning if I intend to ride it

This is pretty. But also pretty small.

What do you normally ride, vs what are the numbers on this one?

Perhaps you could sell it to someone who would fit.

[Aaron O]

I typically ride a 55-56 cm TT...as small as 54 with a long stem. I traditionally rode 54cm STs, but my custom is close to a 56, and it's the best fit I've felt. I'm a hair under 5'10 and longer torso, shorter legs. Usually people go smaller on MTBs, or so I've read.

I neglected to bring a tape measure with me, but it's small. If it were to work for me, I'd need a HUGE stem and drops or straight bars. I'd probably use drops. The odds are it's getting sold or going to my wife. My wife doesn't seem terribly interested.

I think the proportions would improve somewhat with 700c wheels. The spacing isn't as crazy as it seemed in the photos...it's about right for fenders and 700s.

[bigflax925]

Bicycletricyle's right: this is almost certainly an early Waterford. Seeing that it has 753 tubes, as well as early lugs.

I may be drinking the 753 Kool Aid, but that might male getting braze-ons fir brakes, etc more difficult, as I thought 753 required special handling...like low heat and silver? Waterford could do it though.

[Aaron O]

Bicycletricyle's right: this is almost certainly an early Waterford. Seeing that it has 753 tubes, as well as early lugs.

I may be drinking the 753 Kool Aid, but that might male getting braze-ons fir brakes, etc more difficult, as I thought 753 required special handling...like low heat and silver? Waterford could do it though.

It wasn't 753...I can't remember what it was, maybe 725. The fork was 531.

[roydyates]

Bicycletricyle's right: this is almost certainly an early Waterford. Seeing that it has 753 tubes, as well as early lugs.

I may be drinking the 753 Kool Aid, but that might male getting braze-ons fir brakes, etc more difficult, as I thought 753 required special handling...like low heat and silver? Waterford could do it though.

From the new photos, it has the same lugs as my Waterford built All-Rounder. In fact, the rear triangle spacing bears some resemblance to my All-Rounder with 26 inch wheels and 44cm chain stays. I think the difference is that my frame is a 59cm, so that the small wheels on the fairly tall frame give my bike a weird vertical look that de-emphasizes the long stays.

[Aaron O]

From the new photos, it has the same lugs as my Waterford built All-Rounder. In fact, the rear triangle spacing bears some resemblance to my All-Rounder with 26 inch wheels and 44cm chain stays. I think the difference is that my frame is a 59cm, so that the small wheels on the fairly tall frame give my bike a weird vertical look that de-emphasizes the long stays.

I was definitely happy that the fork was drilled for a brake...it'll be a bit odd to have two brakes on the same wheel, but if the rollers are as bad as I hear, the second brake is a necessity. The stem looked so monstrously long in the early pics, but in fact it's quite average, maybe even short. I'll try it out with a long stem and drops...if it rides well for me, or my wife, I'll toss on a more modern shifting setup.

Roy...what tubing was your bike?

[roydyates]

I was definitely happy that the fork was drilled for a brake...it'll be a bit odd to have two brakes on the same wheel, but if the rollers are as bad as I hear, the second brake is a necessity. The stem looked so monstrously long in the early pics, but in fact it's quite average, maybe even short. I'll try it out with a long stem and drops...if it rides well for me, or my wife, I'll toss on a more modern shifting setup.

Roy...what tubing was your bike?
My All-Rounder is 753 with a 531 fork. Here's my same sticker? (https://picasaweb.google.com/roydyates/RivendellAllrounder#5508337429907348530) A weird similarity I forgot to mention is that the bottle cage on the seat tube is mounted pretty much as low as it can go. I'vee wondered if this is some sort of Riv or waterford "feature" ?
Here's a pic of my All-Rounder (https://picasaweb.google.com/roydyates/RivendellAllrounder#5508337355330208434) If you shorten the HT and ST and reposition the seatstays, I think you get something similar to your custom.

[Aaron O]

It's looking like the it fell through :(

[bicycletricycle]

thats too bad, are they willing to sell it straight out?

[Aaron O]

It didn't sound like it...but I can ask for you if you'd like.

I didn't understand the complexity to the deal...the guy I was talking to apparently was storing it for a friend who he thought abandoned it. He checked with the friend before trading it and the friend said no...he had forgotten about what happened to it...thought his wife took it...blah blah blah.

Translation...waste of time and energy.