Have you ever had a tire...

[SoCalSteve]

that just wont fit on a rim????

I bought a pair of Continental GP4000s 700 x 25 tires from a well known ebay seller and for the life of me, I cant get one of the tires on a rim (handbuilt DT 1.1's 32 spoke laced to DT 340 hubs).

The other tire went on fine (well, a bit of a struggle) but I got it on!

Suggestions? Opinions? Experiences?

I am at my wits end and my fingers and hands end as well.

Thank you all in advance,

Steve

[akelman]

Walk away. Drink a beer. Get some baby powder on the contact points. Try again.

[bicycletricycle]

i have run into this a few times over the years. not many options. even if you do get it on what are you going to do when you get a flat?

solutions-

1. thinner rim tape
2. baby powder on the tube/rim/tire
3. better tire installation technique (you may already be highly skilled here but how am i supposed to know?)

I would just try them on another bike with different rims that are a little deeper on the inside or get rid of them.

[jeo99]

Steve, if that does not work go to plan "B". Step away again and have another beer and add the baby powder. It will work!

:beer: :beer:

[akelman]

If it still doesn't work after you try everything we've suggested, PM me with your address. I'll send you a bnib GP4000 25, and you can send me yours. I've got a set of rims that are especially easy to deal with, and I'm sure they'll accept your problem child of a tire.

[bigreen505]

Walk softly and carry a big tire lever. I'm not sure what mine is, but it is 8" long yellow plastic with a black handle. They get easier to put on/take off after they stretch some.

[BillG]

The DT 1.1/Conti combo is notorious. The best solution is Zipp rim tape. Super thin.

[bicycletricycle]

when i think back about all the super tight tires i have had to put on customers bikes i think that most of them were continentals. except on some rims which always seem to be problematic, nucleons, some old matrix, etc..

[Louis]

I have the exact opposite issue.

I swapped my front wheel and was able to put the old tire onto the new rim using just my thumbs, with really not much effort at all. I now have two rides on the tire + wheel combo and no problems yet, but it was a bit disconcerting. That's the first time I've ever been able to do that with such little force.

[ultraman6970]

Got a set of wheels with continental tires and broke like 4 levers trying to take those &$%&^$%&^*&$^$#@%$ out. Unbelievable!!! No wonder the guy did not want to take them out and just gave me the wheels with them already :)

[davidlee]

I had the same experience once with some 1.1's and contis. I just wrestled with it till it went on and my thumbs were worn out . I guess they stretched a bit bc they were easier to get off as I remember..
Good luck mate

[SoCalSteve]

Oh, btw, I am using VeloPlugs...so, the rim tape issue doesn't exist.

And, thank you all for your words of encouragement. I dont drink beer, but I do have some baby powder-talc type that I will try.

And, I have put on many, many tires on rims over the 10-12 years that I have been cycling. I think I know what to do.

Honestly, its just NOT a close fit. Even with tire levers I cant even get that last 6" (approx) to go over the rim.

Akelman, thanks..I may take you up on your offer. Also, I wrote to the ebay seller, who happens to be somewhere in LA. I may just be able to take it to them and have it swapped out.

I guess I am spoiled using Reynolds carbon rims for the last couple of years...With Conti tires, no issues whatsoever.

Thanks again!

Steve

[rustychisel]

Got a set of wheels with continental tires and broke like 4 levers trying to take those &$%&^$%&^*&$^$#@%$ out.

Proof that Conti tyres are so tough they do not like being messed with... :hello:

Actually, some tyre/rim combos are rubbish, that's just the way it is. Anyway, like most tyres, the Conti's will stretch a bit so punctures on the road usually not a problem. Toughest for me? Veloflex on Eurus wheels... HOLY MOLY!! :crap:

I think the 'walk away, have beer, talcum powder...' suggestion is a good one. See if you can line up a thumb massage for afterward.

[mgm777]

Get a bucket and fill with some warm water and little dish soap mixed in. Wet the bead of the tire with the soapy water before attempting to mount. Worked on my 1.1s + contis.

[BobbyJones]

Can someone tell why thinner rim tape would help in this situation?

[gasman]

I just put on the same tires in 23's last night on the same rims. it was tough but some baby powder and a push with a tire lever did the job, I also couldn't push it on with my thumbs but I'm a weenie in hand strength.
Good luck.

[Louis]

Can someone tell why thinner rim tape would help in this situation?

the tire sits lower at the other end as you are trying to get the last few inches on (due to reduced OD of the rim)

[Louis]

Dave Thompson swears by the Kool Stop lever jacks:

(that's assuming you're willing to trust a guy like that)

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=73728&stc=1

[regularguy412]

Might try warming the tire a little (not too much) so that it is a little more pliable. You might also try and mount it on a different (read:easier) rim, first,, just to get it aired up and stretched.

I've had success with problem tire/rim combos with these methods.

Mike in AR:beer:

[bicycletricycle]

don't use thumbs for the last part, roll it over with your palms.

[akelman]

don't use thumbs for the last part, roll it over with your palms.

Hottt!

[don compton]

that just wont fit on a rim????

I bought a pair of Continental GP4000s 700 x 25 tires from a well known ebay seller and for the life of me, I cant get one of the tires on a rim (handbuilt DT 1.1's 32 spoke laced to DT 340 hubs).

The other tire went on fine (well, a bit of a struggle) but I got it on!

Suggestions? Opinions? Experiences?

I am at my wits end and my fingers and hands end as well.

Thank you all in advance,

Steve
Any Michelen tire on any Italian Wheelset. Why????????
Don C.

[godfrey1112000]

The DT 1.1/Conti combo is notorious. The best solution is Zipp rim tape. Super thin.

I have a set of 1.1, instead of working out for two hours I just change the tires,
never have sweated so much in my life,

the Park Tool solved the problem, Park Tool TL-10 Shop Tire Tool

http://www.bicycletires.com/pptuhw/park_tool_tl-10_shop_tire_tool/pp.htm

Now the Gatorskins slipped on easily

[weaponsgrade]

I dont drink beer,

Steve


There's your problem.

Actually, have you tried switching the tire that did fit onto the wheel that didn't fit? or maybe using a different tire to help determine whether it's the wheel or tire? Maybe try using soapy water (at least that's what's recommended for tubeless tires).

[guylimey]

Use dishsoap as a lubricant between the tire and the rim and wipe off the excess when tire is inflated. Used to install motorcycle tires that way without using tyre levers too and they are lot harder to install.

[Birddog]

Throw the tire in the dryer for about 5 to 10 minutes. I'm not kidding, it works.

[rounder]

I never had any problems changing tires until a few years ago when i changed from mavics (open 4s and cosmics) to campy neutrons and continued to use Conti 4000s. Then it was a struggle with each tire change. If i had a flat, i would tell others that i was fine and to ride on. There were no issues until about two years ago, when i was descending around a curve and had a blowout. The tire stayed on the rim and there was no adventure. I thought the tight tire fit helped keep the tire on the rim.

[biker72]

Another vote for baby powder.
Bontrager tires with a wire bead were the most difficult tires I ever mounted.

[tele]

Throw the tire in the dryer for about 5 to 10 minutes. I'm not kidding, it works.
+1zillion
it really really works for Conti tires, just do it when the wife isnt home or expecting to do any laundry for a bit :crap:

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

I gotta try that. Sounds like a good trick.don't use thumbs for the last part, roll it over with your palms.

[slowandsteady]

Get a bucket and fill with some warm water and little dish soap mixed in. Wet the bead of the tire with the soapy water before attempting to mount. Worked on my 1.1s + contis.

+1 but just wet the bead & rim. No need to wash the whole thing down or slop a ton 'o water in the rim. Worked for some tires I had in your same situation last summer.

[rugbysecondrow]

dumb question, but did he send you a 650 instead of a 700?

That sounds like the sort of dumb thing I would forget to check.

[zap]

Rugby dude, that would be pretty obvious quickly.

Some combo's are pretty tough. I recently had a mother of a time with my wife's commuter bike, 26" Mavic rims with some 26" Conti semi slick tire. One rim was easier than the other.

[Elefantino]

Throw the tire in the dryer for about 5 to 10 minutes. I'm not kidding, it works.
Absotively.

Try getting GP4000s on Fulcrum wheels. Even the cats run and hide when they hear that kind of swearing.

I had to put the tires in a shoe bag as a placation for the boss ("I don't want melted rubber in my dryer!") but it works swimmingly.

It's not so bad once you're on the road because the tires heat up. Except if it's cold. Then you're screwed.

[rugbysecondrow]

Rugby dude, that would be pretty obvious quickly.

Some combo's are pretty tough. I recently had a mother of a time with my wife's commuter bike, 26" Mavic rims with some 26" Conti semi slick tire. One rim was easier than the other.


I agree, but I have toiled with some issue that ends up having the most obvious solution. Steve said he had approx 6" left he couldn't get on the rim, that is a lot. Anyway, best of luck Steve.

[Bob Loblaw]

Something I haven't seen suggested that's worked for me from time to time:

Try mounting the tire from the other side of the rim. Sometimes rim wall height is ever so slightly different from one side to the other. It works for me often enough to be worth a shot.

BL

[SoCalSteve]

dumb question, but did he send you a 650 instead of a 700?

That sounds like the sort of dumb thing I would forget to check.

Good suggestion, but that was one of the first things I checked.

Thanks!

[jblande]

The toughest time I have ever had was with tubeless mtn bike tires.

Schwalbe Easy Fit paste was the only way I could get them on. And it still took the levers.

[11.4]

That's definitely a tight combination.

I wouldn't recommend the soap solution. It leaves everything slippery even after the water has evaporated and causes problems with the adhesive on the base tape over time -- your base tape slips and your tire blows out into a ferrule.

Talcum powder does help, but not if the tire just doesn't want to fit. If you do use talcum, be sure the container is real talc and not cornstarch. You have to read the label because baby powder comes both ways and you have to read the label to know which it is. (Cornstarch turns to a sticky adhesive when it gets wet and actually dissolves away.)

Best and ultimate solution for a clincher that just doesn't want to fit is to put it in the clothes dryer at a low setting for a few minutes. Don't let it get more than hot to the touch (not burning, just very warm), and it'll soften up quite a bit. The biggest mistake is to let it sit on the hot metal of a dryer drum that's stopped. The problem is not in the dimension of the bead itself, but in the fabric that Conti uses for their casings -- in final processing it tends to shrink up significantly due to the coatings applied. Conti improved with the fabric used in their 4000S tires, for what it's worth, but they like tight tires. Like Bjarne Riis, who never let his mechanics stretch tubulars before mounting them. Ugh.

[rugbysecondrow]

Somebody made this point in another thread, but if it is this hard to get on at home, how the hell are you going to tend to a flat on the road? I would ditch the tire, swap it out in favor of a tire you can rely on. I would be wicked pissed if I was stranded roadside and unable to change a flat.

Just some wisdom I thought I would pass on from another forumite...might have been RPS.

[oldpotatoe]

Somebody made this point in another thread, but if it is this hard to get on at home, how the hell are you going to tend to a flat on the road? I would ditch the tire, swap it out in favor of a tire you can rely on. I would be wicked pissed if I was stranded roadside and unable to change a flat.

Just some wisdom I thought I would pass on from another forumite...might have been RPS.

It should be noted that when DT went from the 1.1 designation to the 465/415, they also made the rims a wee bit smaller, to help fix this problem.

[rounder]

I used to inflate a little air in the tube to shape it before mounting the tire (Conti). Now I put a minimum amount of air in to begin and the tire mounts easier. Also, once the tire has been mounted changing for a flat seems to be a lot easier because the tire has been stretched some (i guess).

[skijoring]

It should be noted that when DT went from the 1.1 designation to the 465/415, they also made the rims a wee bit smaller, to help fix this problem.


...this is good to know, OP. I have a set of 1.1's which are tough to install most tires on, but also have a set of 465's built up that are waiting for me to put tires and a cassette on. :beer:

1.1's and Conti's are *very difficult*. Michelin tires and Vittoria's snapped right on, though.

[zap]

Eleven point Four-thanks for your info. Next time I will give the dryer solution a shot.

Rugby, in my experience, clinchers loosen up some once installed.

[rugbysecondrow]

Eleven point Four-thanks for your info. Next time I will give the dryer solution a shot.

Rugby, in my experience, clinchers loosen up some once installed.


True, but I would rather not have that doubt in my equipment. That is me though, others might feel more comfortable.
:beer:

[palincss]

Somebody made this point in another thread, but if it is this hard to get on at home, how the hell are you going to tend to a flat on the road? I would ditch the tire, swap it out in favor of a tire you can rely on. I would be wicked pissed if I was stranded roadside and unable to change a flat.


Out on the road, you can forget about finding soapy water solution unless you carry a small bottle of it with you, but you always have spit right there at the end of your tongue. I've found spit works wonderfully well in lubricating tire beads. Note: it should be obvious, but I'll say it anyway -- put it on with your finger, don't just lick it...

[bambam]

New tires always seem tight to me. I have used the dryer on delicate maybe 5 muinutes and put them on as soon as I get them out of the dryer. It also give your place that nice bikeshop smell.

I have also placed unfolded tires outside on the top of my black garbage can on a sunny day. Has the same affect but the house doesn't smwell like a bike shop.

They usually stretch enough before you get a flat so its a non issue later down the road.

[DHallerman]

Dave Thompson swears by the Kool Stop lever jacks:

(that's assuming you're willing to trust a guy like that)

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=73728&stc=1

I love that Kool Stop tool, too -- but too big for the road, unless you're packing.

[DHallerman]

don't use thumbs for the last part, roll it over with your palms.

That works very well, I use my palms much of the time -- but I've also found with the palms-method that you need to be super-careful that the tube isn't caught between the tire bead and the rim.

But just looking and fixing, if it's caught, takes care of that.

[RPS]

that just wont fit on a rim????

Yes Steve, I wrote about my "bad" experience in this thread just last month.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=89156

After going through a similar problem with Michelins many years ago I told myself I’d rather give the tires away than risk a puncture on the side of the road and not be able to fix it in reasonable time. Saving the cost of the tires wasn’t worth the problem I encountered during a century ride far from home.

I’d try different things before forcing them on the rims and creating a potential future problem. Options may include mounting on different rims, returning them, selling them, or giving them away to someone who can better use them. Even if short on cash I’d rather trade them for cheap tires that can be mounted with normal effort. For me things have to work right and be reliable.

[SoCalSteve]

First off, thank you all for your great suggestions!

What I ended up doing was changing out wheels and tires with a different set I had already had mounted (Open Pro's-older Conti GP4000 700 x 25's). It worked like a charm!!!

I guess the combination of the new Conti's and the DT 1.1's just wasn't a good "fit". (pun intended).

So, if you ever run into a situation like this, just try swapping wheels and tires with a different set. Worked for me.

Again, thank you all!