OT non-stick cookware

[jimcav]

cooking experts--i remember a thread a ways back on swiss diamond cookware. i am looking for an alternative to teflon based non-stick, but it turns out swiss diamond is also PTFE based. haven't found anything online that is not PTFE based
My mom cooked with cast iron, but i worry it is too heavy with my little guys trying to help in the kitchen etc. anyone have any alternatives?
edit--i am planning on buying some decent stainless steel pans this week--so if anyone has suggestions along that line or a non-stick option please PM me or reply

thanks
jim

[Ozz]

check out ScanPan....

Sur La Table -- Scan Pan (http://www.surlatable.com/category/cat450431/Scanpan?cleanSession=true&pCat=CAT-5779)

Pricey...but good stuff. It was my first set of nice pans.

For regular stainless stuff, I like All-Clad. You can put the full stainless line in the dishwasher, which is nice. I have a mix of the Ltd. and Stainless lines.

That said, it is my 12" cast iron skillet that sits on the stove and gets 80% of my cooking action....

[jimcav]

so far I have no luck finding out exactly what they do use in the greentek coating, but at least it is not teflon based!
thanks
jim
check out ScanPan....

Sur La Table -- Scan Pan (http://www.surlatable.com/category/cat450431/Scanpan?cleanSession=true&pCat=CAT-5779)

Pricey...but good stuff.

[Ozz]

From Scan Pan website:

"Our Environmentally-friendly Nonstick

Scanpan is the world’s first manufacturer of nonstick cookware that was certified PFOA-free. Recent concerns linked to PFOA and its environmental impact prompted us to develop a PTFE compound that would not require a PFOA emulsifier.

Prior to GREEN TEK, PFOA was used to support the polymerization of PTFE though it was always extracted after the production process. By the time the nonstick compound was applied to the pan surface, PFOA was no longer present.

We want to assure our customers that Scanpan cookware is completely free of PFOA during all stages of our manufacturing process.

Our GREENTEK nonstick compound continues to work flawlessly in conjunction with our patented Ceramic Titanium technology and our customers will see no difference in Scanpan's superior performance in our Classic, Professional and CTX cookware ranges. "

I am not sure what all this means, but it looks like they do use PTFE, but the PFOA is not present....is that what makes PTFE bad? Not sure....

The older Scan Pan lines just used the Ceramic Titanium embedded in the cookware surface and made it non-stick. That is what I have...from about 1993 or so.

[jimcav]

anyway, for those interested, seems even the scanpan greentek stuff is PTFE based, all i have found is Demeyere Controlinduc which limits the max temp--idea being if you don't overheat non-stick, it won't breakdown and so won't expose you to any harmful byproducts
looks to be expensive stuff--anyone actually use it?
thanks
jim

[yngpunk]

edit--i am planning on buying some decent stainless steel pans this week--so if anyone has suggestions along that line or a non-stick option please PM me or reply

thanks
jim

While not as "nice" looking as the retail offerings, you should look into commercial stainless steel used by restaurants and foodservice industries and available through restaurant supply stores, either online or locally. From what I can tell, same quality and more durable than what is typically available from retail outlets at a significant cost savings. Smaller sized pots and pans are available, so you don't need to end up with a 40 qt stock pot, but that's available if you need it.

PM me if you're interested in a recommendation for an online restaurant supply store.

[djg]

For stainless, the all-clad stuff is (a) great, (b) mostly US-made, and (c) pricey. You'll notice that just about everybody has all-clad on sale now, however -- mostly 20% or more off standard prices, and better on some pieces. Apparently they're moving to the 5-ply model and the mfg is sponsoring the sale. Prices on some key pieces are really pretty good right now, and on some select things prices are better than that.

If you get some (or a lower-priced alternative, such as the calphalon tri-ply), buy yourself some barkeeper's friend cleanser -- really does work, and really does not ruin the pans.

We still have some non-stick coated pans and I'm not really sure that I have anything much to say in their defense (or mine) -- although they're not what we use for really high heat and when one gets seriously scratched or gouged we get rid of it.

Cast iron really is excellent in certain applications, but not in all by a long shot and, as you say, it can get pretty darn heavy.

[Nil Else]

I use All-Clad Stainless pans too (I want to try some of the ones that restaurant supply stores sell... the thin all dented well used pans that you often see pro cooks use). For non stick I just get cheap Kitchen Aid ones; regardless of heavy duty industrial coating or whatnot special treatment they never seem to last very long... must be how I use/wash them... How toxic is PTFE anyway? I know it's supposedly not good for birds.

[pdmtong]

calphalon just warranty replaced our flakng set with their "unison" line. not sure if it meets your needs but it works noticeably better than the previous generation calphalon

[jroden]

I have a bunch of the stainless allclad and boy do they take a beating. I boil them dry, put them under the broiler, you name it and they never ever warp. The 12 inch saute is my daily driver

I have a 12 inch non stick from allclad and it works very well, but I baby it,

[Ozz]

anyway, for those interested, seems even the scanpan greentek stuff is PTFE based, all i have found is Demeyere Controlinduc which limits the max temp--idea being if you don't overheat non-stick, it won't breakdown and so won't expose you to any harmful byproducts
looks to be expensive stuff--anyone actually use it?
thanks
jim
Do you have an induction stovetop?

Most sticking comes from overheating the pan anyway....don't cook with high heat and you won't have a problem with sticking or PTFE emissions....

What do you cook that you need a nonstick pan? I've found that nothing works better than cast iron for eggs.... :beer:

[DRZRM]

Stainless Al-Clad at Williams-Sonoma (http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/all-clad-d5-stainless-steel-french-skillet/?bnrid=3101864&cm_ven=E3&cm_cat=EDM&cm_pla=0506_FrSkilletRTL&cm_ite=cta&cm_em=zrmwork@gmail.com) was on sale for $99 last weekend for a 9 & and 11 inch pan. Still not a bad deal at $169 but I think you'd do as well or better on Amazon.

[jimcav]

What i have is a 4 and 7 yr old who constantly distract us and one burner that has lost is regulatory function--it gets super hot if you turn it on at all--so for speed my wife tends to use it to boil water and that has killed a few pans. we just have non-stick stuff--started with a calphalon wedding set and we just keep getting non-stick. I know PTFE breakdown products are considered carcinogens, so i just want to keep that away from the kids.
Ideally we'd use proper care for the pans, but in the midst of real life we either overheat or someone sets a fork in the pan in the sink, something goes on top of that, next thing you know it is scratched.
wish i could warranty them, but we lost the receipt 2 moves ago.
thanks
jim
Do you have an induction stovetop?

Most sticking comes from overheating the pan anyway....don't cook with high heat and you won't have a problem with sticking or PTFE emissions....

What do you cook that you need a nonstick pan? I've found that nothing works better than cast iron for eggs.... :beer:

[jimcav]

do you think long term I'd notice anything in longevity for 5-ply i assume the sale stuff is 3?
i am no chef, just tired of seeing scratched and ruined non-stick. as folks have said, whether expensive or cheap, none of it stands up to poor care (we end up over heating or scratching it)
thanks
jim
For stainless, the all-clad stuff is (a) great, (b) mostly US-made, and (c) pricey. You'll notice that just about everybody has all-clad on sale now, however -- mostly 20% or more off standard prices, and better on some pieces. Apparently they're moving to the 5-ply model and the mfg is sponsoring the sale. Prices on some key pieces are really pretty good right now, and on some select things prices are better than that.

If you get some (or a lower-priced alternative, such as the calphalon tri-ply), buy yourself some barkeeper's friend cleanser -- really does work, and really does not ruin the pans.

We still have some non-stick coated pans and I'm not really sure that I have anything much to say in their defense (or mine) -- although they're not what we use for really high heat and when one gets seriously scratched or gouged we get rid of it.

Cast iron really is excellent in certain applications, but not in all by a long shot and, as you say, it can get pretty darn heavy.

[Ozz]

What i have is a 4 and 7 yr old who constantly distract ...jim
I hear you...I have two boys (6 & 10)....time is a precious commodity.

Like I said, I use my cast iron skillet for most of our cooking. It is the easiest to care for. In most cases I just wipe it out with a paper towel. If it needs more cleaning, then I just scrub it under hot water and re-oil it. No soap needed.

The All Clad stuff are lifetime pans. The oldest I have is 15 yrs old (12" Chef's Pan - Ltd. (wedding gift)) and the inside still looks as good as the day we got it. There are a few stains on the outside, and some scratches around the rim, but I expect it to last at least another 30 yrs.

The only pan failure I've had was when a housesitter left a 4 Qt Stainless Saucepan on the stove and overheated it. I think she was making popcorn or something and forgot about it. It is discolored and the bottom is warped, but it still works. It has been relegated to the camping gear. :)

I would advise weaning yourself off the non-stick stuff. Maybe keep one skillet that you can baby, but when time is precious, you want stuff you don't have to worry about.

I still have some of my ScanPan stuff, but it doesn't go in the dishwasher, so it generally stays in the cupboard.

Cheers.

[tele]

I'll echo what Ozz said, we use a combo of All-clad and cast iron with our 5 and 8 year olds. Best money you'll ever spend, spend it now, then done for your life.

[Idris Icabod]

do you think long term I'd notice anything in longevity for 5-ply i assume the sale stuff is 3?
i am no chef, just tired of seeing scratched and ruined non-stick. as folks have said, whether expensive or cheap, none of it stands up to poor care (we end up over heating or scratching it)
thanks
jim

We (actually my wife) just bought the 5 ply All-Clad stuff from Williams Sonoma. I would liken the 5 ply argument to the rubbish spouted by frame manufacturers about verticle compliance and lateral stiffness. The stainless on the outside is there for longevity, the aluminum in the center is there because it is a good conductor but a soft metal so not good to make the entire pan from. Now with 5 ply they have added an additional layer of steel in the center to "diffuse" the heat. I'm not a materials scientist but I do have a Ph.D. in organic chemistry and this is a bit far reaching for me, after all it is just cooking, i.e. heating a surface, isn't the conductivity of aluminuum enough? I say buy the 3 ply stuff on sale and forget the marketing voodoo they are selling.

[DRZRM]

Instead of cast iron (which I still use for bacon and steaks, but the Mrs. can't seem to remember not to soak it in soapy water), I like the Le Creuset 12" fry pan. It cooks like cast iron, but you don't need to season it (though you certainly can if you so choose). It's non porous so it will not transfer flavors like cast iron, and you can scrub it clean with soap and a scrub brush after use if you don't season it. Not quite non stick, but you'd be surprised how easy it is to clean, and it does not have to be babied at all. Even my wife has not managed to destroy it.

If you have a Le Crueset outlet near you, wait for when they put unpopular colors on sale, and you can sometimes do better than 50% off on the seconds. I think I got mine for around $65, and it's among my favorite pan. Heavy though.

Link (http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/le-creuset-12-inch-fry-pan/?pkey=ccookware-le-creuset|ckwlcecls)

[bluekudu]

I finally threw in the towel on teflon and now only use cast or stainless. I picked up this stainless set (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11503441&search=stainless&Mo=73&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=stainless&Ntt=stainless&No=25&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1) from my local costco and think it works great, especially for the price. I'm not sure if I'm missing anything by not having bought something more high-end. Ignorance is bliss?

[Skrawny]

1+ on the All Clad pans. I beat them up and they always perform.

I only have one non-stick that I use for eggs, otherwise I have no real problems.

There is some Chinese cooking saying that goes: Hot pain, cold oil food don't stick. Must use enough oil though. Also don't poke at the food until it has had a chance to carmelize and release. If you want to go the way of too little oil, then you have to use a non-stick, but in my opinion the actual caloric difference between enough and too little oil is insignificant. Any stuff left on the pan is good, it is called "fond" and it is the stuff from whence all good sauces are born.
-s

[yngpunk]

Instead of cast iron (which I still use for bacon and steaks, but the Mrs. can't seem to remember not to soak it in soapy water), I like the Le Creuset 12" fry pan. It cooks like cast iron, but you don't need to season it (though you certainly can if you so choose). It's non porous so it will not transfer flavors like cast iron, and you can scrub it clean with soap and a scrub brush after use if you don't season it. Not quite non stick, but you'd be surprised how easy it is to clean, and it does not have to be babied at all. Even my wife has not managed to destroy it.

If you have a Le Crueset outlet near you, wait for when they put unpopular colors on sale, and you can sometimes do better than 50% off on the seconds. I think I got mine for around $65, and it's among my favorite pan. Heavy though.

Link (http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/le-creuset-12-inch-fry-pan/?pkey=ccookware-le-creuset|ckwlcecls)

+1 on the Le Crueset cookware...expensive though. The reason that stuff is so heavy because it is cast iron at the core, just coated with enamel. You can often find assorted pieces at places like Marshalls, TJMax, and Tuesday Morning for a discount, but its hit or miss.

Cooks Illustrated often does reviews of various pieces of cookware...might be worthwhile to take a look at their website/magazine, but I believe most of the content is behind a pay wall.

[SEABREEZE]

All Clad is the way to go, buy them once and your done for life.

Not cheap, but worth every penny.

[Nil Else]

We had a Le Crueset pan a long time ago. It had wooden handle with a metal eyelet end that screwed in. I forget exactly why we stopped using it but I remember the wooden handle kept getting loose/spinning and the surface of the pan getting kinda nasty and not working well after a while. I think the enamel coating eventually started to come off or wore out. Well at least it seems they no longer make wooden handled pans.

[Skrawny]

We had a Le Crueset pan a long time ago. It had wooden handle with a metal eyelet end that screwed in. I forget exactly why we stopped using it but I remember the wooden handle kept getting loose/spinning and the surface of the pan getting kinda nasty and not working well after a while. I think the enamel coating eventually started to come off or wore out. Well at least it seems they no longer make wooden handled pans.

The handles are now metal, and the knobs (for lack of a better word) are some kind of heat-proof resin (and occasionally need tightening). I don't know what temp the knobs are good to.

I have a Le crueset "dutch oven" and love it. It is the way to go for those wet roasting and braising cooking applications. Otherwise I have All Clad for fry pans and sauce pans.

I have heard the enamel can crack, but I have not experienced it.
-s

[yngpunk]

The handles are now metal, and the knobs (for lack of a better word) are some kind of heat-proof resin (and occasionally need tightening). I don't know what temp the knobs are good to.


I trick of the trade I picked up is that if you're going to go to high temps, wrap that resin knob in aluminum foil which will help keep it from coming loose, or worse yet, melting. I wrap the knob in foil regardless of temperature whenever it goes in the oven.

[Karin Kirk]

I am amazed at the Serotta Forum unity around All-Clad pans. But if you think about it for half a second, it makes perfect sense.

So count us in too, as devout users of All Clad and cast iron. We just got another All Clad pan at the aforementioned sale. It is beautiful. Stuff does not stick, the pans last forever and they are a pleasure to use. With tasks that tend to become chore-like, I am a big fan of appreciating the little things like nice handles, a pleasing shape and a beautifully polished surface.

One thing that can help with cast iron and kids are the little mitts that slide over the handles. This makes the pans much easier to handle when they get hot. Also some brands have a helper handle that makes them easier to wrangle. There are also some nice small sized skillets that even a kid could handle.

The Cook's Illustrated reviews are excellent. That is a neat magazine that will make your mouth water when you read it. :)

[SEABREEZE]

Every household needs a couple aged Cast Irons in there aresnal and a good Caserole Oven cooker.

[Skrawny]

Every household needs a couple aged Cast Irons in there aresnal and a good Caserole Oven cooker.

Walking through NY's upper West side I happened upon a full set of 6 nested cast iron skillets. They had been well used but were rusty from being outside. My brother thought I was nuts when I lugged them all back to his place and crammed them into my carry-on (oof!). I cleaned 'em up, seasoned them, and they remain in my cooking armamentarium today.
No better way to sear a steak.
:beer:

-s

[djg]

do you think long term I'd notice anything in longevity for 5-ply i assume the sale stuff is 3?
i am no chef, just tired of seeing scratched and ruined non-stick. as folks have said, whether expensive or cheap, none of it stands up to poor care (we end up over heating or scratching it)
thanks
jim

Hard to say but I truly doubt it. The stuff that's getting replaced is very durable -- beautifully made and there's nothing lightweight about it -- and it has a lifetime warranty. I mean, if you look at one of the french skillets that has a "normal" price of 150 bucks, but has a long-running "special" price of 100, on sale for 79 bucks -- I wouldn't wait for the new-and-improved one to have a retail price of 175 or 200.

I have one 5-ply all-clad Ltd2 stock pot -- retail is something shocking like 350, and I found it at Marshall's for 99 bucks. It's a great pot, and it looks great, but I have no idea whether it's really a step up over the 3-ply version.

BTW, if you think that you or the wife has scorched a stainless pan try the barkeeper's friend -- you might be surprised.

[rugbysecondrow]

Thanks, very timely thread all. Very helpful. I think I am going to get a frying pan to give it a shot first, then take inventory of what I need. Anybody use both the stainless as well as the copper? Any opinions or preferences? I have some older Calphalon that I would like to upgrade.

Anybody selling a frying pan or skillet? :)

Great thread.

Paul

[SEABREEZE]

Walking through NY's upper West side I happened upon a full set of 6 nested cast iron skillets. They had been well used but were rusty from being outside. My brother thought I was nuts when I lugged them all back to his place and crammed them into my carry-on (oof!). I cleaned 'em up, seasoned them, and they remain in my cooking armamentarium today.
No better way to sear a steak.
:beer:

-s

Wright in my old stompping grounds as a kid...

[SEABREEZE]

Rugby a lot of mantainence to keep the Copper just like the way you bought them. As time goes by, they wont look so PRETTY

[rugbysecondrow]

Thanks. Stainless sounds good for me. Thanks!

[Wilkinson4]

I have a sitram cybernox pan and it works great. Hard to find and I don't think they make it anymore. They call it stick resistant.

mIKE

[19wisconsin64]

without a doubt, and with the blessing of consumer's reports on the best fry pan

http://www.lecreuset.com/en-us/Products/Enameled-Cast-Iron/Skillets--Grills/Iron-Handle-Skillet-10--1--qt/

they are now pre-seasoned, and come in a lot of great colors...though you may want to stay with the classic colors of either flame or red.

these don't crack, will last a lifetime, and are much easier to clean than stainless.

i usually use a little non-stick canola oil spray from trader joes, and can easily cook everything from eggs to steaks. they also brown foods very well.

on sale these are about $100, but it's a lifetime investment.

all the stuff with "non-stick" surfaces have, over time, been thrown out, or have been found to be toxic (yikes!) in some manner!!

whatever you choose..... cheers!

[djg]

without a doubt, and with the blessing of consumer's reports on the best fry pan

http://www.lecreuset.com/en-us/Products/Enameled-Cast-Iron/Skillets--Grills/Iron-Handle-Skillet-10--1--qt/

they are now pre-seasoned, and come in a lot of great colors...though you may want to stay with the classic colors of either flame or red.

these don't crack, will last a lifetime, and are much easier to clean than stainless.

i usually use a little non-stick canola oil spray from trader joes, and can easily cook everything from eggs to steaks. they also brown foods very well.

on sale these are about $100, but it's a lifetime investment.

all the stuff with "non-stick" surfaces have, over time, been thrown out, or have been found to be toxic (yikes!) in some manner!!

whatever you choose..... cheers!

Probably excellent, but I like my Staub 12" fry pan. Awesome for searing steaks. Heavy as hell, not vertically compliant, and if it planes at all there's probably an extra baggage charge for it, but it does a great job with that cast iron storing-energy thing and it comes in cobalt blue.

But I still use the stainless skillets for all sorts of things and don't find them hard to clean -- at least not regularly.

[jimcav]

I am always impressed by the level of expertise in so many areas (also enjoyed the turntable thread as i know nada on that subject)
i am going to check out all clad today
thanks
jim

[jimcav]

looking fwd to cooking without teflon
thanks
jim

[tanghy]

check out the rikon black star range of pans, once you season it right it will last a lifetime

[Ramjm_2000]

Cook’s illustrated recently did a comprehensive test and surprisingly T-Fal Professional series beat out the competition (including All-Clad). We bought a set to replace our aging Calphalon and couldn’t be happier/more impressed given the price and performance. Just an FYI...