Speculation on the New model

[scooter01]

I can't belive I forgot about this

At the Open House; durring the auction Ben spoke about the next Dream bike raffle for the DPF, it would be a new model, not the Ottrott they did last year.

So what might this new model be? an all Carbon maybe??

Any thoughts?

[Ginger]

I dunno, but I have my check made out for the raffle ticket already!

[Sandy]

Custom all carbon.

Sandy

[Russ]

Did any of you get to see the new Mavic wheels? I heard that Serotta would have them on their display bikes...

Any comments? Any pictures?

Thanks!

[Smiley]

Scooter , nice meeting you last weekend . I don't think you meant a new model , rather you meant the design and make of the raffle DPF bike that they will raffle off . I think the Ottrott with the changes that serotta did last year is doing just fine , IF they do anything to this flagship model , it may have more to do with containing costs and lowering weight .

[Bruce K]

Smiley;

After you and Ellen had headed home, during the live auction, Ben announced/discussed this year's DPF raffl. He was quite clear that the prize would be "serial number 0001 of Serotta's new model".

That is what has triggered the speculation.

Over the weekend the question seemed to come up alot and when asked about an all carbon bike the party line seemed to be "not yet".

I was told by one of the folks that Serotta would not even consider making an all carbon bike unless they felt that they could do it themselves, in house, and at a level of technology and quality consitent with their other products.

It will be interesting to see what the new bike will be and it sounds like we may not have long to wait.

BK

[Onno]

Having toured the factory for a second time, it doesn't seem likely to me that it will be an all-carbon bike. James said that Serotta is looking to getting more computer-aided machining equipment, so that they can do nearly all the metal work in house. A new bike model would have to continue to allow for full and completely variable customization that machined bottom brackets, headtubes, etc., make possible.

Would the new model be above or below the Ottrott in price? Since the Nove occupies the niche below it in Carbon/Titanium, my guess is that a new model would be even more expensive than the Ottrott. The factory is already working to capacity, isn't it? Thus a new bike would not be to generate more frame orders, but perhaps to generate more expensive frame orders, and to continue the aura (reputation) of producing one of the world's very best bikes.

Onno

[Smiley]

BruceK , I missed alot and could not do my usual snooping around and even if I really knew for sure , I would have been sworn to secrecy anyway . Again , they are selling more Ottrott's then they can imagine , they are supplying more Gucci accessories to these frames that add to the bottom line . Why kill the goose before its run has died off . Containing costs is the name of the game , Their ti suppliers are passing on price increases , doing more in-house maching will save on OEM outsourcing and these are all translated to the bottom line . What the *hit was the Nove if it was not a new product . I just can't see a more expensive Ottrott , but maybe I am wrong . Better yet Keifel told me that all the bikes Wheat Ridges sells the Ottrott is still by far and away the BEST riding all around bike they have . This says something , if Ben can quantum leap this design technology then he's MORE genius then I give him credit for .

[Ginger]

I don't know a thing...I'm just buying the ticket and hoping it's a mountain bike!


Serotta has all the other bases covered, except perhaps a true dedicated touring bike, and a mountain bike. And we've seen the pictures of the MTB prototypes...

:banana:

And Smiley, Ben probably is more of a genius than you give him credit for. :)

[Sandy]

A "more expensive Ottrott" ?????

Is that even possible?? :)


Sandy

[Bruce K]

M-A;

Why would it be an MTB if the event is a road event? I'm just not sure if that would make sense.

The MTB's are apparently going to be hardtails only. No more CST's and no full-suspension.

They had a couple sitting out to look at and they looked pretty sweet. One was the bike from Sea Otter with the Black/Purple faded flame paint job with the "knockout" logos.

They were hiding Ben J-M's Kodak/Sierra Nevada Ottrott cross bike, but I found it. ;) The thing is amazing. 17.5# as what looked like a 56, all ready to ride with the exception of a missing front cable hanger. VERY sweet.

BK

[Ginger]

Ah Bruce, The Sunflower Revolution seems to be a cycling event. You're gonna tell me that you won't see one single mtb on the 25 mile ride? I'll bet you'll see plenty! Not that you'd see mine. I tend to use the correct tool for the job at hand. Using the "road event" logic you could argue that it won't be a cross bike either. A CF and Ti tri bike? Perhaps, or a return to a full blown touring specific bike.

Like kids at Christmas. What's in the box!

[dirtdigger88]

you all have it wrong-

Serotta is going to build a new lugged steel- 650b country bike :beer:


Jason

[Climb01742]

just a personal opinion, but without an all carbon frame, serotta would be missing something.

[Ginger]

Climb,
I agree, but since that idea was shot down, and we have seen the mtb prototypes...I'm sticking with the hope that it is a mtb. :)

[dirtdigger88]

just a personal opinion, but without an all carbon frame, serotta would be missing something.

from a marketing stand point- I agree

Jason

[Serotta PETE]

Spokes has a prototype in his garage a 999R. It is red and italian!!!

[Bruce K]

M-A;

I don't think anyone said the all carbon idea was shot down, just that it had certain restirctions in how Serotta would like to do it.

Could they get it done for the 06 model year? I wouldn't put it past this bunch. They are highly motivated and seem to be quite resourceful.

Nobody said that the DPF bike would be delivered in 2 weeks..... ;)

BK

[Climb01742]

from a marketing stand point- I agree

Jason

carbon bikes are more than marketing. :D ;) :)

[Len J]

carbon bikes are more than marketing. :D ;) :)

while I agree that a good carbon bike is more than marketing, I don't see Ben introducing one until/unless they can deliver an improvement over what is in the marketplace (Yjey won't just do a "me to" carbon bike).........Carbon is a different animal and it will take time for them to get there.

Len

[jeffg]

carbon bikes are more than marketing. :D ;) :)

But the question is how much more for a company like Serotta? Merlin has an all-carbon ride out now, and I can honestly say I would not buy it. If I wanted carbon I would get another Parlee (assuming I didn't have one), a Scott Cr1, or some other bike from a CF producer with a proven track record. Would it not be odd to see Calfee offering Ti next year? I think the marketing point is the notion that without a carbon bike, one is not au courant. It seems Pinarello just threw on a CF bike that is not going to be ridden by Fassa (or any other pro team) in the near future, so I am not sure what the point is. Serotta doesn't make AL bikes, and I would love a CCKMP, but I don't think Serotta is missing something by focusing on its current set of materials, just like I think Dario should do his thing and make steel and AL frames.

Don't get me wrong, I trust Ben & Co. to get it right, but I think they also have to be careful about diluting the brand.

[Onno]

I'd like someone to explain in practical terms how it is even remotely possible that Serotta could offer an all-carbon bike within the next several years.

Serotta's explicit goal, made more explicit as their bike designs have evolved, is for the perfect custom fit on a perfect custom bike (matching rider desires, abilities and physiology to a range of frame materials). A tour of the factory makes clear that changes there (more computer machining equipment) are to enhance this, to give them more control of all parts of the design and manufacture of their bikes. An all-carbon bike is impossible in their factory, as far as I can tell--they don't want simply to be gluing bits of premanufactured carbon together, because this would give them a lot LESS control of the frame design. Until they get equipment that allows them to make their own carbon tubes and joints, I can't see them making an all-carbon bike.

Onno

[Ozz]

What is the likelyhood of Serotta out-sourcing the frame construction? They could set up a similar arrangement as Hampsten has with Parlee...

[Ti Designs]

just a personal opinion, but without an all carbon frame, serotta would be missing something.


Yeh, "made in China" stickers... It's funny watching the bicycle industry jump on every trend, good or bad. Cannondale has been at the cutting edge of aluminum frame design for years. They decided that they needed to add carbon, so they mixed what they do well with a few carbon tubes. They worked out a bonding process and their Six13 frame has impresed many. They also figured out what Ben has known for a while, a carbon fiber seat tube isn't such a good idea, so the new Six13s will only have two carbon tubes. But then they needed a full carbon frame - gotta keep up with the industry, right?

Serotta had two farmed out bikes in the past. Their aluminum bike and the Serotta Titan (going way back). Neither bike did anything for building the name or reputation of the company - they simply weren't Serottas. So why go down that road a third time? I've been to the factory, I know what they are set up to do, and I have a better understanding of what those machines can or can't do than most. The full carbon thing should be left to those who are set up for it, or who don't mind putting their decals on a generic carbon frame.


A "more expensive Ottrott" ?????

Is that even possible??


Sure, just add marketing! Use the term "technology", that's worth a 20% increase in price all by itself. Take the Gobi or Arione saddle for instance, they use "wingflex technology" and cost an arm and a leg. My table saw uses featherboards, but they don't say "wingflex technology" on them and they cost a few bucks.

Here's my take on all this - not that you asked. I was on the Serotta demo ride from my shop a few months back (in the cold and rainy age). The average price of the bikes on that ride was staggering. Mostly Ottrott STs, an Legend thrown in for good measure, the IF show bike (not cheap), A Specialized and a couple of less expensive Serottas (mine and Steve's) just to bring down the average. The ride did the Allis loop (named after John Allis who was on an Ottrott ST, but still wearing 15 year old wool) which has a few hills. The ride didn't leave me thinking that anyone there needed faster wheels or more carbon, but I could see a few riding changes I could make to the riders. I rode an Ottrott ST most of last season, I own a Serotta Ti, I order Serottas for customers, I have a pretty good feel for what they offer, so...

My idea for the next Serotta offering is this: It's just called "Ben" (Cause Enzo was taken). It comes with unlimited fitting and coaching from a network of Serotta certified fitters and coaches (someone needs to put CTS out of business), and the bike itself is based on what Ben and Kelly think is the best frame for the rider. And if that happens to be a mountain bike...

Now I'm pretty sure nobody is still reading at this point, so I can say anything I damn well please without risk of insulting anyone or getting booted off the forum. I'm adding this 'cause my suggestion that the rider needs change more so than the frame went without notice... So let's go back to the original thread on the open house - the one that starts with 3 photos. I don't know who any of these people are, but it's clear from the picture that the world's finest bicycles aren't matched to the worlds finest riders... As the old saying goes, "if you're looking for the ultimate union of man and machine, we can supply the machine".

[Climb01742]

agree that a "me too" carbon would be a huge mistake. agree, also, that unless it was something unique, ben and co. would not persue it. but based on some frames i've ridden, all carbon offers a kind of performance that is unique...and something worth pursuing. if building high performance bikes is serotta's reason for being -- which i think it is -- all carbon is one avenue...far from the only avenue, to be sure, but one. that being said, ben may wish to go further down the ti path or the ti+carbon path...which is cool. but i'll stick to my belief that carbon offers more than simply a marketing gimmick.

[mavic1010]

Could it be a CSI with carbon tubes????

[Bruce K]

Serotta folks were quite adamant that IF Serotta were to EVER do an all-carbon bike it would NOT be outsourced.

Parlee makes custom all-carbon bikes every day. That is one of their selling points.

The way they do this is with tubes cut to the correct length and angle and essentially fabricating the "lug" in place. Their "lugs" are pre-cut pieces of carbon fabric that are formed around the joint in special molds and bonded to the tubes. This allows them to create any angle they desire.

Could Serotta do this too? Sure, why not?

Would they want to? Who knows?

Speculation is sure fun. :banana:

BK

[Ginger]

Yeah...good thing Ben doesn't read the board (well...didn't last time I talked to him). He'd think we were a bunch of whack jobs...

Oh hold it...

You know...if the announcement on the new bike is coming out soon...why isn't there a teaser on the Serotta page?


And doesn't it strike anyone as odd that you can't just click on the Serotta logo at the top of this page and have it take you to the Serotta web site?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and not just because he pays me! ;)

I see no reason why Serotta could not fabricate high quality custom sized carbon bikes in their present facility--IF they do it with the assembly approach of using separate lugs and tubes. Trek has for years offered only a limited range of sizes in their OCLV frames because (allegedly) of the high cost of each mold to make the one or two piece frame. I just don't see Ben having the resources for those expensive molds or his CAD milling machine being large enough to fabricate the entire molds onsite. But the machine is certainly large enough to fabricate lug molds, and Ben has certainly already done enough research with the tubing supplier to get whatever he wants in that department.

LOOK has for years fabricated their frames by assembling carbon tubes to aluminum and, later, carbon lugs. I see no reason why this system could not be used to make great custom all-carbon frames, and there is still enough room for innovation in that method for Serotta to make great strides. It might be in the method the items are hitched together, or even something more radical, like the aluminum spine + carbon skin approach taken by Cannondale some years ago with their Raven mountain bikes.

But no matter what the new model is, I can safely bet that it will be a carefully researched and developed product involving some degree of true innovation. Ben is a forward thinker and a good businessman, and I don't see THAT changing.

Now if only he could work on his table-waiting skills a bit . . . ;)

BBDave

[Climb01742]

if what really matters in a frame is the design of it...the intelligence and testing and knowledge that went into the design of it...does it really matter where it's built? serotta doesn't build its own tubes, steel, ti or carbon...no one does. that manufacturing is out-sourced. i'm not advocating outsourcing carbon production...but why be so afraid of it? if serotta were to maintain their classic level of quality control, would it matter where the frames were made?

[scooter01]

It is fun to speculate on this

Maybe they will reverse the Ottrott: Carbon lugs and Ti tubes??

Just kidding!

I was thinking more like Burce with a Cross bike maybe

[Big Dan]

I know......it has to be steel baby......the Atlanta is coming back....
more affordable lugged steel by Ben...... :D.................. :banana:

[Climb01742]

dan, you're crazy. ;)

[Big Dan]

Thank you Climb... I needed that...must be the heat down here in South Florida.... :help:

[dirtdigger88]

why not a steel carbon bike? Lemond is selling the hell out of theirs and I believe Jamis has one as well- I have seen one or two of Seven's steel/carbon bike as well

Jason

[Dr. Doofus]

doof predicted a serotta carbon a year ago...and will stubbornly stick to that until it comes through in 2021 or whenever....

deda has been selling custom carbon kits for a year now -- lugs and BBs in a few different "within the range" combinations, with tubes to match...so its not too big of a stretch for Reynolds to do the same thing...the key would be BBs and HT lugs to accommodate different sizes of CC tubes, and that's where it would get funky...you also lose the ability to make some cat a 73.4 seat tube angle, but c'mon, who actually needs such a thing?

for those who know more about the tech side, would it be as simple as having some CC carbon tubes and a sheeyatload of carbon BBs and lugs around, along with gobs of epoxy, or would it require going beyond that kind of setup (Landshark, for one, uses those Deda kits)?

[alembical]

can you say.....hors...... :banana:

Alembical

[Spinsistah]

What about a ti/carbon tandem?? I know, what was in my Wheaties this morning............

[dirtdigger88]

what was in my Wheaties this morning............

I'm not sure- but I met a guy in Jamacia who can get you more :p

Jason

[Ginger]

Jason, that baby of yours is gonna be trouble.

Spinsistah,
I've seen Serotta tandems before...I'd hate to see the upcharge on a tandem OttRott!!!

[Kevin]

I have been sworn to secrecy. But let me tell you, it is sweet. You are going to love it.

Kevin

[Ginger]

Kevin...

Is the forum in general going to love it, or me specifically?

:p

[victoryfactory]

I actually asked Ben at the open house if there was an all carbon
frame coming, he sort of chuckled, but didn't say.

As for me, I snooped around the factory during the tour and I couldn't
find any clues.

VF, 20% carbon ,70% water, 10% you know what

[aLexis]

What is the likelyhood of Serotta out-sourcing the frame construction? They could set up a similar arrangement as Hampsten has with Parlee...

0.00%

[Bradford]

aLexis,

If you PM me the real answer, I promise I won't tell anybody at all ;)

[aLexis]

Keep dreaming, big guy. :)

[Skrawny]

A Ti/carbon beach cruiser.
Yeah, that'd be sweeeeeet.

[Smiley]

OK , here it is ...A Steel / Ottrott type bike with a CS rear end . They can knock this puppy out tomorrow and you'd buy one in a NY minute . They should be pissed that they did not do it before Lemond did it . This could allow them to add a premium to a CIII and my guess add profit to a slower selling Steel bike product line . Alexis probably hid the proto-type frame in her apartment for safe keeping .

[Kahuna]

doof predicted a serotta carbon a year ago...and will stubbornly stick to that until it comes through in 2021 or whenever....

Same here...
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=684&highlight=carbon+rocket

[Kevin]

Kevin...

Is the forum in general going to love it, or me specifically?

:p


Everyone is going to love it. You are going to love it even more than the rest of the forum.

Kevin

[cs124]

OK , here it is ...A Steel / Ottrott type bike with a CS rear end . They can knock this puppy out tomorrow and you'd buy one in a NY minute . ...snip...


I really like the sound of this. How well do you reckon they'd sell?

A totally simplistic guess at pricing...

$Ottrott ST/$Legend ST = $5295/$3795 = 1.39(ish)

$CDA*1.39 = $1795*1.39 = $2495(ish), same as the Concours.

Another interesting number: $3395. Legend & Nove.

Anyway... this thread is fun!

[Ginger]

Hmmm, Kevin, you're a tease.

I'd say that it's a mountain bike...because if they were bringing back the DKS, SMILEY would love it more than the rest of the forum.

And, if they do bring back the DKS, all those people who have been pining away for a custom DKS better buy them fast! I've already got my Kirk...and I'm happy with it. That's why I've been passing on those used DKS that are almost perfect.

[Bruce K]

I'm inclined to line up with the "CDA on steroids" aka "Steeltrott ST".

It would seem to make the most sense and be the easiest to produce with minimal added tooling, etc.

It would also make it easy for them to produce a cyclocross version!! :banana: :banana:

(I gotta get off this kick and just order a frame). :crap:

BK

[Ginger]

Waaaaaiiiiit Bruce...WAAAAIIIIIIT

You know you want a Serotta 'cross bike or one from e-richie...so Waaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

[scooter01]

yup this thread is fun!

Maybe Alexis or someone from Serotta should drop a few hints, you know like:
Well its not a........all carbon

or:

It WILL be a road bike.....


Not a MTB......



Kind of a count down to the day of introduction

[Spinsistah]

Since the CSI is the flagship model of Serotta's steel frames, why not mate the Ottrott with the CSI and get a lugged steel/carbon frame with a DKS rear? Another thought, would Serotta work with another material such as magnesium?

[Ginger]

Hmm, is that two votes or three for the steel OttRott?

Where it would put that carbon technology at a hopefully lower price point, and it would be a new model, I'm not sure it's an innovation. And outside of the tri bike, it seems that most of the new models Ben & co. have put out have been a solid innovations in the field rather than a response to the market (oops...forgot the Nove...).
There are other carbon/ti mtbs out there, but full custom is difficult to come by in that realm. For Ti a Titus Racer X I think can be had in full custom, as can a moots, seven, and IF, and I think you can get the custom Titus with exogrid ti/carbon...but a custom ti/carbon mtb? Not as easy to come by.

Why send prototypes to Seaotter if you aren't coming out with the model?

[LegendRider]

There's rumor circulating at my LBS that Serotta plans to purchase Parlee. This, needless to say, is complete speculation. But, it's fun to talk about...

[mdeeds71]

Last night there was a new member added on the bottom of the forum that said ????@parlee....I cannot remember the name but it was apparent that the name@parlee was new to the forum.

[dirtdigger88]

did a google search for STEEL OTTROTT. Looks like on 7-22-02 dbrk and smiley were talking about the exact thing on the old forum. I cant seem to be able to pull up the link- but it is there. . . Interesting ;)

Jason

[Ginger]

Yikes...I've been hanging out here that long! Wow.

[Ti Designs]

OK, I'll try again.

First, let's talk materials. Steel? Carbon? Ti? The Ottrott is Carbon/Ti and we're looking for the next step. I say we stop hyping the material and find something new that offers technological advantages. My idea is to add some new technology - Mobile Speedpass, AmEx magnetic strip and lifetime pass to Disneyland all built right into the carbon weave...

Now about the name: When Ferarri replaced the F40 with the F50 it failed to make much of an impression, so their newest supercar which borrows a lot of technology from their F1 program is simply called the Enzo, after Enzo Ferarri. My first thought was to call it the Ben, but then people would go calling it a Ben Serotta (isn't there a human by that name?). So the idea of a name with 5 T's in the name (one step beyond Ottrott) came up. In the end I think there can be only one name - Benzo!

Seeing as a fair number of posts on this board are of the "help me pick out a color for my new Ottrott" kind, I think the finish needs to be a few steps over the line as well. Perhaps they can offer a reproduction of some masterpiece, painted on the carbon tubes of every bike, and no two the same.

[Smiley]

Hey Ti Designs , like your work , wish you could get with the folks at Serotta and have them commission you to make a freaking beautiful head badge for them , they can add this to the head tube for a decent mark up and put some BLING on their frames .

[mavic1010]

I had asked Ben when he first introduced the Ottrott (2000/2001?) about possibly doing a CSI version of the ottrott, since I wasn't extremely impressed when I test rode his prototype (of course I ended up purchasing 4 ottrotts since that time!). He had said at that time that he would consider it later, I'm sure to not cannabilize the more expensive frameset. Well, a few years have passed and I asked him a few months back and he said he wouldn't do it unless it was for a trade show or for some other unique situation.

I hope it is a CSi with carbon tubes and not a CIII with carbon tubes and a CS rear.....

[Dr. Doofus]

the maufacturing costs of a lugged CSi/Ottrott would be ridiculous...brazing steel tubes to lugs and bb shell, then bonding the carbon tubes to the steel tubes that you just brazed to the lugs...and some poor sap would have to shell out 7 grand for the frame....

tig steel nove/ottrot would be much more likely, offering that technology at a lower price point...but how much lower? 2000 would be the logical spot, similar to Seven's steel/carbon, and at the midway point between the concours and CIII....

still hoping for the all-carbon, though doof would never buy it because he don't have that scratch...heck, the cpg/giordana project is on the back burner until blue cross (state teachers' health plan) ponies up some cash for the 400 doof had to spend on new orthodics....

[Kevin]

Hmmm, Kevin, you're a tease.

I'd say that it's a mountain bike...because if they were bringing back the DKS, SMILEY would love it more than the rest of the forum.

And, if they do bring back the DKS, all those people who have been pining away for a custom DKS better buy them fast! I've already got my Kirk...and I'm happy with it. That's why I've been passing on those used DKS that are almost perfect.

Ginger,

I wish I could give you more information, but I have been sworn to secrecy. However, it is going to be great.

Kevin

[Ti Designs]

Hey Ti Designs , like your work , wish you could get with the folks at Serotta and have them commission you to make a freaking beautiful head badge for them , they can add this to the head tube for a decent mark up and put some BLING on their frames .

Back when I was riding a Seven I asked them if they would allow me to do some custom cutting and finishing on a set of lugs which would then be built into an Elium or Odonata, but they didn't want to produce anything that wasn't in their catalog. When I was at Serotta fit school I asked Kelly, but he didn't want to get into the whole surface area issue, so the answer there was a clear "no". I asked Matt at IF, and they kinda wanted to blow people away at the show, so they gave me a set of lugs and told me to knock myself out - my head still hurts from that! My plan is to build myself an IF XS fixed gear in the same geometry as my Serotta, but take a few months and do it right. I'm still thinking flames, but using thicker wall tubing and milling in the overlap, polishing some, blasting others for contrast. The flames would come up from the bottom bracket lug and form the water bottle holder (making it the most expensive bottle cage in the world - 'cause I so need one of them!). They don't have track dropouts for the carbon stays, so I'll have to mill them from soild stock, which gives me almost limitless freedom to carve anything back there as well.

There is at least one Serotta out there with some fancy Ti Designs hardware. When I make wedding bands for cyclists (about 1/3rd of my customers) I always offer the matching headset spacer...

[davids]

My idea for the next Serotta offering is this: It's just called "Ben" (Cause Enzo was taken). It comes with unlimited fitting and coaching from a network of Serotta certified fitters and coaches (someone needs to put CTS out of business), and the bike itself is based on what Ben and Kelly think is the best frame for the rider. And if that happens to be a mountain bike...

Now I'm pretty sure nobody is still reading at this point, so I can say anything I damn well please without risk of insulting anyone or getting booted off the forum. I'm adding this 'cause my suggestion that the rider needs change more so than the frame went without notice... So let's go back to the original thread on the open house - the one that starts with 3 photos. I don't know who any of these people are, but it's clear from the picture that the world's finest bicycles aren't matched to the worlds finest riders... As the old saying goes, "if you're looking for the ultimate union of man and machine, we can supply the machine".
Ed,

I read what you write!

The idea of a steel Ottrot is a winner, but your idea is even better. Let me add to it - The coaching would need to include some healthy dialog between the rider and the coach to define the rider's goals. Me, for example - I don't aspire to race, but I want to be stronger, faster, and a better bike handler, while I ride 25 - 75 miles with my friends.

And "unlimited fitting and coaching"? I'd take a bimonthly coaching session, with a single long fitting after 6 months of work.

A better bike, a better rider - I'll buy that. :beer:

[Ginger]

Each new OttRott will come with a signed glossy photo of Mr. Kerry!

[Bruce K]

If that were the case I would have to start researching Seven cross frames. :rolleyes:

BK

[bcm119]

A "more expensive Ottrott" ?????

Is that even possible?? :)


Sandy

Here is a more expensive (http://www.fasterisbetter.com/colibri.html) Ottrott ;)


My guess for the new model is MTB.

[Kevan]

An Ott w/ DKS.

[Ginger]

I saw one of those on ebay one time....

[mavic1010]

yup..Ottrott with DKS was an option for a short period of time...

[PanTerra]

Could it be a CSI with carbon tubes????

BLASPHEMER!!

[csb]

why would anyone want a csi with carbon tubes?!!

[dirtdigger88]

why would anyone want a ti bike with carbon tubes. . . never mind :crap:

Jason

[PanTerra]

It would no longer be a CSi. Like making a Legend with carbon tubes, it is no longer a Legend, but an Ottrott.

[csb]

i do not want a ti bike wid karbone tubes _ its aesthetically
displeasing _ csi'd even more so.

i like my materials straight up _ all carbon _ all ti _ all steel

its bad enough i ride a carbon fork on a ti frame

[Dr. Doofus]

magnesium+carbon frame...CC tubes...8 grand price tag...and some poor bastard would buy it and put the bars 2cm above the seat...

[weisan]

...and some poor bastard would buy it and put the bars 2cm above the seat...

DOofUs, this is poor form. You don't make fun of our pal Sandy especially when the man is down. :no:

[Dr. Doofus]

sandy's bars are 2 feet above the seat, and by god the doof respects a man unafraid to put ape-hangers and a (forum) banana seat on a serotta

[Serotta PETE]

i do not want a ti bike wid karbone tubes _ its aesthetically
displeasing _ csi'd even more so.

i like my materials straight up _ all carbon _ all ti _ all steel

its bad enough i ride a carbon fork on a ti frame

We can take care of your carbon fork and put an aluminum one on....meet me at the pub!!

[lnomalley]

here is my vote (it will never ever happen)... i want a single speed mountain bike to rival the merlin newsboy. give me a serotta newsboy with a rigid ti fork and track drop outs.

[dirtdigger88]

here is my vote (it will never ever happen)... i want a single speed mountain bike to rival the merlin newsboy. give me a serotta newsboy with a rigid ti fork and track drop outs.

the news boys have to be one of the coolest bike on earth. . .

Jason

[lnomalley]

this belongs to a (tall) friend of mine (*lust*)

[Ti Designs]

Somewhere in New York there is a Ti Designs refinished Merlin NewsBoy with a custom titanium springer fork, titanium copies of wald baskets and a titanium kickstand. She's a special customer, so when she wanted a stylish bike...

[jerk]

Somewhere in New York there is a Ti Designs refinished Merlin NewsBoy with a custom titanium springer fork, titanium copies of wald baskets and a titanium kickstand. She's a special customer, so when she wanted a stylish bike...


did you do her?

[Ti Designs]

did you do her?

It's funny how these threads come full circle. It started out as speculation of the new model, now it's speculation on the nude model...

[Ginger]

Well...any time a man admits to making a titanium kick stand for anyone...

[PanTerra]

Each new OttRott will come with a signed glossy photo of Mr. Kerry!

No no no, the idea is to make it more attractive. You want to sell the bikes.

[Serotta PETE]

No no no, the idea is to make it more attractive. You want to sell the bikes.


The plan has been updated and will include a signed picture of Sandy/Smily/Flydhest :fight: