My Sunday morning ride... with questions

[aarondgirard]

I made plans with a friend to take this ride (http://ridewithgps.com/trips/242504) before we went to see our moms today. We have been talking about this climb (Thatcher Park, just outside of Albany, NY) and decided today was the day to do it at the front of a 50 miler.

Some background.. I am 6'2 250 and have been riding for just over 2 years. My regular ride is somewhere between 15 and 20 miles with an occasional "long" ride of 30-40. I have a couple of bikes that I ride regularly (CAAD9, Ultegra, Ksyrium Elite, and a LeMond Versailles, Ultegra/DA, 36h hubs with cxp33) and decided to take the LeMond given it's more comfortable ride compact crank.

I guess my questions are about gearing, and pedaling efficiency...

I rode this ride with a 50-34 crank and 12-25 cassette. If I went to a 12-27 to get a little more climbing range would the gaps be really noticeable on the flats? Alternatively, I was considering an 11-28 specifically for rides like this, knowing well that the gaps are pretty big in that.

My CAAD9 has a standard 53-39 with a 12-27, would I have been better off with this gearing on a ride like this one?

I am having a hard time being efficient with my pedaling specifically out of the saddle. At least I don't feel terribly efficient. I have searched around online for information, but there are so many different things to read. Does anyone have something that they learned from that they can point me in the direction of?

This ended up being really long, but hopefully I will get some insight from you all.

Here is a picture of my bike at the top of the climb..

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j92/b14SERNY/photo.jpg

Aaron

[dave thompson]

Gearing gaps are terribly overrated. Get the gearing that will get the job done. Why not try a similar ride using the rear wheel off your CAAD9, a simple and cheap way to tell if it could be something that you can use.

[xjoex]

You won't notice the "gaps" and you will love the extra teeth on the top end on long climbs.

Go for it!

-Joe

[BillG]

Try shifting less, it makes you a stronger rider. Learning to climb steep stuff in bigger gears is a really good riding skill.

[Jason E]

I am having a hard time being efficient with my pedaling specifically out of the saddle. At least I don't feel terribly efficient. I have searched around online for information, but there are so many different things to read. Does anyone have something that they learned from that they can point me in the direction of?

In what way are you being inefficient? Are you bogged down on the steeps, or flailing about in too easy of a gear and just getting shot out the back?

THough some snob's here do not like computers or HR monitors ( :rolleyes: ) I would suggest that either way you stay seated, work on a smooth cadence, and do not shift until your pedaling falls under a certain level... You need to find your comfort zone, but easier climbs that may be 80 RPM, longer Steep climbs, 60 RPM... You need to play with it, and find out where you still can maintain momentum, while keeping your lungs in your chest.

There are alot of ways to climb, like different names for snow in Albany, but it is just an idea, until you give us more info...

Do you have a lot of miles in this year already?

That's a great ride. I used to live on State Quad and loved going up and being able to overlook pretty much everything.

JE

[regularguy412]

Try shifting less, it makes you a stronger rider. Learning to climb steep stuff in bigger gears is a really good riding skill.

+1 on this,, and I think this sort of goes toward what JasonE has said.

Being efficient in a wider range of cadences will make the perceived gaps in gearing and climbing steep sections more bearable.

Mike in AR:beer:

[Peter P.]

If I went to a 12-27 to get a little more climbing range would the gaps be really noticeable on the flats? Alternatively, I was considering an 11-28 specifically for rides like this, knowing well that the gaps are pretty big in that...

...I am having a hard time being efficient with my pedaling specifically out of the saddle. At least I don't feel terribly efficient. I have searched around online for information, but there are so many different things to read. Does anyone have something that they learned from that they can point me in the direction of?

You don't say whether you actually felt the need for lower gears on this ride; the answer to this question would help.

Stepping down to one larger cog size i.e., usually 2 teeth more, isn't going to mean a drastic difference between gears. There are just too many gears on the rear end these days for it to be an issue. The 2.3" gear difference between the low gear on each bike isn't much of a difference to choose one bike over the other.

Another good thing about wider gearing; it teaches you to have a wider range in your pedaling speed to cope with the inevitability of not have the perfect gear in any situation.

On the other issue, you're a big guy, so standing on climbs isn't usually a talent large riders have; they mostly prefer to stay seated as much as possible. It's the wispy little climbers that have climbing grace, fluidity, and can do so for longer periods of time.

I'll also open my mouth and say the bike, as it's set up, gives me the distinct impression it's too small for you. I would first verify that your position on the bike is good, either with a fitter or a friend and using one of the many detailed methods that can be found in some of the cycling books or on the internet. I'm wondering if part of your problem is the bike isn't properly sized for you.

P.S. I have been fortunate enough to ride the Rte.85 section up to Thatcher State Park. Beautiful view from atop the escarpment.

[Mr. Squirrel]

dear sir,
a question that has not been asked would inquire "what size cranks" are on your bike? you seem to be large for a human and your bike appears to be on the small side. i like your wheels. where do you ride?

mr. squirrel

[CNY rider]

No insight other than to say that a guy your size probably needs a bigger bicycle but I want to chime in and say that I also used to live in Albany and you brought back a lot of fond memories of that ride.
Thanks for posting. :beer:

[FlashUNC]

As a bigger guy like you (6'2", about 215 or so), I can say from experience its very unlikely you'll ever dance on the pedals like Pantani when going uphill.

So I'll echo what others have said. I'm a grinder on climbs (usually 70-90rpm) and stay seated for long periods. I usually only stand on climbs for a few pedal strokes just to stretch out the legs, use a bit different muscle group, and give the gooch a bit of a break.

You can train to improve that by standing more often, but I personally see that as tilting at windmills.

I've resigned myself to the fact I'll never be the fastest climber, and instead relish getting the lightweight guys at the town line sprint.

[Johnny P]

Swapping the wheel from your CAAD9 so you can try a 12 /27 seems like a good idea and a very easy thing to do. I also ride in the Capital District and use a 13/29 with a 50/34 compact crank. It's nice having a bail out gear.

The picture of your bike does show a lot of seat post. A bigger frame may give you a better fit and you may then feel more comfortable and efficient on climbs.

My 2 cents.

[aarondgirard]

thank you all for such helpful hints... also it's nice to see that others on the forum have ridden this route and have fond memories. Here are some answers to your questions.

In what way are you being inefficient? Are you bogged down on the steeps, or flailing about in too easy of a gear and just getting shot out the back?


I am using a Garmin 705 with HR and cadence, which have both been helpful in trying to stay consistent... but I am most puzzled about pedal stroke I guess. I don't feel like I am "pedaling in circles"


You don't say whether you actually felt the need for lower gears on this ride; the answer to this question would help

I'll also open my mouth and say the bike, as it's set up, gives me the distinct impression it's too small for you. I would first verify that your position on the bike is good, either with a fitter or a friend and using one of the many detailed methods that can be found in some of the cycling books or on the internet. I'm wondering if part of your problem is the bike isn't properly sized for you.


On the steeper sections I did feel like I needed a bigger gear. I was unable to sustain a steady cadence without my heart and lungs busting out... so I guess that is the answer to my own question.

As far as the bike fit :confused: I got this frame used in a attempt to ride a bike with a shorter top tube (my CAAD9 is a 60cm, this LeMond is a 57) but it is not really working out. I am probably going to tear it down and find a frame that better suits my needs.


dear sir,
a question that has not been asked would inquire "what size cranks" are on your bike? you seem to be large for a human and your bike appears to be on the small side. i like your wheels. where do you ride?

mr. squirrel


The crank length on all my bikes is 175mm. I have been looking around for a set of 180's, but nothing has turned up. I ride all around the Capital District

[EDS]

Having done that climb many times I think the gearing you have is plenty low enough.

[veloduffer]

Since you have a few bikes, why not make one of them a triple for the hilly rides? I use compacts but do find the gaps and need for more shifting (on the front) frustrating. The great thing about a triple is that you can use closer spaced gearing in the back and easily find an optimal gear within a click or two.

While most of my bikes are doubles, my ti all-rounder has a Campy triple and it's easy to find a suitable gear/cadence. I run it with a 50/40/30 and 12-23 (10 spd) in the back. There are days where you just don't have your climbing legs and you need to grind it out. Or what happens to me during the hot weather is cramping in my quads. That prevents me from getting out of the saddle and I just need to find a cadence to keep going without totally seizing my legs.

[William]

As a certified Clydesdale I know where you are coming from. I've got four inches on you height wise, and about five pounds on you weight wise. The majority of folks at our size aren't going to be standing and dancing on the pedals for any length of time while climbing. I can't comment much on your fit without seeing you on the bike, but judging from the amount of seat post you have showing, and the amount of spacers under your stem would lead me to believe that that bike is a little small for you.

From my own experience, when I was running 175 mm cranks I always felt like I was fighting to stay on top of the gears when climbing. When I went to 180's, the added leverage allowed me to stay on top of the gear and climbing became much more efficient and faster. I am a seated climber on all but the very steepest climbs, and I can climb well for someone my size. I think that added bit of length/leverage put me in the sweet spot for my size to strength ratio. I was also a pseudo sprinter when I was racing and I can spin even 180's smoothly at a high cadence. it helps a lot.

The point to my ramble: If you can do it, try going to 180's...and if you haven't already, have someone knowledgeable check your fit.

I hate to admit it, but the rodent may have been on to it. :crap:



William

[false_Aest]

Somewhere Dave Kirk has written something about climbing. Go find it and read it. It may answer some of your questions about standing while pedaling.

I'm one of those dudes that notices gaps in cassettes (I want 17-18-19 not 17-19) but whatev.

Pedaling out of the saddle isn't efficient. It just isn't.

Someone else said it. I'll say it in a different way.

Yo life is absurd. There's no point to doing anything. You struggle yo but at the top you just ride back down. It always hurts and you always sweat. No reason to ride.

But Camus says,

Rock your inner Sisyphus. Ride the hill yo. The answer isn't the gear or the gaps. The answer isn't an 18 between a 17 and a 19. The answer is somewhere else.

Your answer comes with the struggle up the hill. That 9% kicker brings out the inner danseuse. The struggle becomes the reward.

The answer to your question isn't in the cassette. It's in the ride and the climb.
------

If you have the time, your regular ride should be lengthened yo.
If you have the will, your long ride should make Camus' proud.