Tubeless Newbie Help

[hairylegs]

Hey Guys -

Just grabbed a pair of used Dura-Ace 7850s for my Serotta and am gearing up to grabbing some Hutchinson Fusion 3s and sealant. I'm getting some conflicting reports though, that's all I need, right? What's everybody's favorite sealant? And does it just go through the valve or do you (can you?!) remove the valve core.

Can't wait to ride with these guys! :)

Thanks!

Cody

[hairylegs]

Pretty sure it's this simple, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCb8_PP-8O4

Hutchinson Tire Sealant like this is good?

http://www.amazon.com/Hutchinson-Fast-Tubeless-Bicycle-Sealant/dp/B003L4K246/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1304831507&sr=8-2

Thx! :)

[feta99]

I would recommend Stans or Caffetex. I've used both and can't really tell the difference. One fills holes a bit quicker but my primary use was to seal the tire with the rim to keep the pressure stable over the course of a few days. I think Zinn recommends Caffetex.

The shimano wheels don't have a removable valve core so you will have to try and inject it through a narrow opening. It is a messy process and I ended up with some sealant on the floor. I would first install the tire and get it to set on the rim properly, you will be able to tell when the bead is set as it latches into the rim after you deflate the tire. Then pinch the bead to unset it and try injecting some sealant through that opening.

Also, you might want to have a few co2 cartridges laying around as some of the tires don't set correctly without enough pressure.

Have fun.
-AC

[BillG]

I love my tubeless wheels and Hutchinson tires. I bought the Hutchinson sealant which I put in the tires when i was seating them -- i.e. not through the valve stem. Worked just fine.

[hairylegs]

Rockin thanks guys - it's obviously not rocket science, just pouring a little sealant into a space - for some reason I thought you do it through the valve stem.

I have an air compressor, but I don't necessarily need to use it, right? I don't have the proper connection and the presta attachment is like $40!

Thanks again guys and happy mothers day! :)

Cody

[fjaws]

Depends on the fit. You may not be able to get it to seat with your floor pump. I've never needed anything more than a CO2 cartridge for the road tires though.

Air gun, hose from old pump with presta head still attached, and a hose clamp is a cheaper solution to your expensive compressor dilema. You can find cheap airguns at any number of tool outlets. I've been using this setup for the last 6 years and it works great. No pressure indication on it but I just use it for seating my tubeless MTB tires.

[martinrjensen]

I have done both ways, meaning through the valve stem, and then when I replenished the liquid, I just popped one side of the tire off and pored in close to a couple oz of Stans (as recomended) and rolled the tire back on. Either way seems to work fine. Last time I did this I got a real good seal and filled with my bike pump. Usually not but I'm thinking this might be because I'm using different rims not designed for tubeless (AC rims) but using the Stan's kit to make them so.

[BillG]

There's no need for a compressor on Dura Ace 7850s. The seal is very tight. Just a regular old pump.

[dekindy]

Hey Guys -

Just grabbed a pair of used Dura-Ace 7850s for my Serotta and am gearing up to grabbing some Hutchinson Fusion 3s and sealant. I'm getting some conflicting reports though, that's all I need, right? What's everybody's favorite sealant? And does it just go through the valve or do you (can you?!) remove the valve core.

Can't wait to ride with these guys! :)

Thanks!

Cody

7850SL's which are tubeless designed and can also use a standard clincher? If not, in addition to the sealant and road tubeless tire you will need special rim tape and a tubeless specific valve, preferably with a removeable core to replace the standard valve,. Verify that Stan's conversion kit valve is compatible with the Shimano rim.
http://www.notubes.com/Road-Tubeless-C78.aspx
I have used the Fusion 2's and Intensives. Go for the Intensive unless you are a weight weenie.

Assuming you have the SL model, the Shimano valve does not have a removeable valve core so you have to dump the Stan's into the tire using the cup. I recommend airing the tire up first without sealant and then removing the tire enough to pour the Stan's inside. Use a standard tire pump and there is usually one spot on the tire that the air leaks. Just apply some pressure to seal the sidewall at that point and then pump like crazy when it starts to inflate and begins popping indicating the the bead is sealing. An assistant makes it very easy if there is more than one spot on the sidewall leaking. Make certain the tire is sealed around the valve which is a classic spot for air to leak if the tire is not seated properly at that spot.

I have read many reports that Caffelatex can be inserted successfully through the valve without removing the core so I plan to try it as soon as my current supply of Stan's is exhausted.

[Vientomas]

Folks may think that I'm a dork, but I don't use any sealant in my tubeless set up. Campy 2 Way and Hutchinson Fusion tires. I did not buy the set up for flat protection, but instead for the promised magic carpet ride of tubeless.

[rice rocket]

Is sealant absolutely necessary to run tubeless?

Coming from cars, using tire sealant is the easiest way to anger your mechanic. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

Edit: thanks Vientomas, that's what I was wondering. :)

[martinrjensen]

if you don't want flat protection and just a great ride, go tubular with Vittoria Evo'sFolks may think that I'm a dork, but I don't use any sealant in my tubeless set up. Campy 2 Way and Hutchinson Fusion tires. I did not buy the set up for flat protection, but instead for the promised magic carpet ride of tubeless.

[martinrjensen]

If you use a rim made for tubeless you can probably get away with that. If you modify a standard rim for tubeless according to Stan's directions you are most likely (almost for sure) going to have to use sealant.

But, you're not going to take your bike to a mechanic just to fix a flat are you? It's really not that bad, if you did get one, of course you have to wipe out the gooey stuff then insert a tube for the rest of the ride. It's actual not a bad idea to plan for that but the fact is that with sealant, minor flats will be a thing of the past.
I've gotten 2 flats with tubeless. One was my fault (road over a metal plate that I saw and got quarter inch cuts in the tire*) and the other sealed itself up in a few miles of riding. When you are home do a proper fix what ever it might be.
*note I successfully patched the Hutchinson Fusion 2 tire and continued to ride it tubeless for a year, after which I pulled it because I found I had a unpatched tubeless spare just sitting around. One of the patches was on the sidewall but it still ran for a year.

Is sealant absolutely necessary to run tubeless?

Coming from cars, using tire sealant is the easiest way to anger your mechanic. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

Edit: thanks Vientomas, that's what I was wondering. :)

[Cinci Jim]

I bought these last fall on Bonktown (7850SL) and I'm running Fusion 3 tubeless tires. I took them to the LBS and had them mount the tires for the first time. Best $10 I ever spent. It's not hard to do but having a compressor to set the bead is really helpful.

I run mine with no sealant and have has no problems (but no flats either)

[Vientomas]

if you don't want flat protection and just a great ride, go tubular with Vittoria Evo's

Then I'd just end up sniffin' the glue like Towlie would. :rolleyes:

[Vientomas]

Is sealant absolutely necessary to run tubeless?

Coming from cars, using tire sealant is the easiest way to anger your mechanic. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

Edit: thanks Vientomas, that's what I was wondering. :)

You were wondering if I am a dork? :rolleyes:

You're welcome. It is just one man's opinion. :beer:

[fjaws]

Not really comparable. Your bike tire would take 1 to 2 ounces maximum of sealant. The car guy doesn't usually see a tire that's been pre-treated but rather one that's had a full 20 ounce can of fix-a-flat sprayed in it after a puncture.

It's not very messy and, for my money, the added flat protection is well worth any drawbacks (but I haven't found any).

[rice rocket]

It's not very messy and, for my money, the added flat protection is well worth any drawbacks (but I haven't found any).

I guess what I can't wrap my head around is if you're going tubeless and using sealant, why not tubular? There's MUCH better tire selection, it's just as much hassle for mounting/dismounting tires, the "goo" is contained in your tire, and it's usually ~a pound lighter in wheels. Oh, and your carbon wheels won't overheat and warp either on long descents.

[gemship]

Is sealant absolutely necessary to run tubeless?

Coming from cars, using tire sealant is the easiest way to anger your mechanic. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

Edit: thanks Vientomas, that's what I was wondering. :)


I don't think so. I have these tubeless Shimano wheels and I'm still using them as clinchers but I do look forward to trying out a set of tubeless tires in the future. Having said that unless one regularly rides in thorny areas with their road tires I would think they could simply fix flats with a spare tube but sooner or later I think the sealant does provide a decent fix for minor punctures on the tubeless tires as the miles roll on. :D

[slowandsteady]

I have an air compressor, but I don't necessarily need to use it, right? I don't have the proper connection and the presta attachment is like $40!


You can find the brass adapter at many LBS for $2-3 - NOT $40!!!

[fjaws]

I guess what I can't wrap my head around is if you're going tubeless and using sealant, why not tubular? There's MUCH better tire selection, it's just as much hassle for mounting/dismounting tires, the "goo" is contained in your tire, and it's usually ~a pound lighter in wheels. Oh, and your carbon wheels won't overheat and warp either on long descents.


I don't follow your logic? There is no hassle in mounting/dismounting the tires; they go on and off just like any other clincher. Haven't heard of or experienced warping or overheating of the wheels and I've had mine down both sides of the Peyresourde in France.

Will agree with you on the tire selection, but have found the Hutchinson's to be excellent. Not sure I'd switch given the option.

[oldpotatoe]

I guess what I can't wrap my head around is if you're going tubeless and using sealant, why not tubular? There's MUCH better tire selection, it's just as much hassle for mounting/dismounting tires, the "goo" is contained in your tire, and it's usually ~a pound lighter in wheels. Oh, and your carbon wheels won't overheat and warp either on long descents.

Cuz there is all sort of mis information out there about 'gluing......ooooo shudder'. and 'Rolling a tire', heating it up on decents, etc...

Tubualr gluing is much less of a deal than tubeless tape, valve and goop. Better ride, better cornering, lighter 'package'. Put some Stan's in the tire via the valve(yes even in latex, Vittoria) and you will see almost zero flats.

[hairylegs]

So my Stan's and Fusion 3s are coming next Monday and I can't wait. Thanks everybody for your input. I'll try and do this right the first time. :)

[hairylegs]

Well I got the tires mounted, filled them up and they held first try! Then I peeled the bead up and added 2 oz of Stan's each, did the soap thing and pumped them up. The front tire had some sealant spill out, but then held air just fine. Went for a quick ride and these wheels/tire feel AMAZING! Really happy. Thanks again for all the help.

[fjaws]

What pressures did you run? I typically run traditional tubed clinchers very firm but find the tubeless ride very well and still feel fast at significantly lower pressure than I would run in a tubed clincher.

[Louis]

the promised magic carpet ride of tubeless.

So, are they really that much different from / better than, say, PR 3's ?

[Vientomas]

So, are they really that much different from / better than, say, PR 3's ?

Well, I don't have any experience with the Michelin's. However, I was running Gommitalia Calypso K's with latex tubes previous to the Campy 2 Way/Hutchinson set up I have now. My completely subjective observation is that the tubeless has a better ride - very smooth and fast. At 140 lbs. I run 85-90 psi in back and 80-85 psi in front depending upon road conditions.

[dekindy]

Well I got the tires mounted, filled them up and they held first try! Then I peeled the bead up and added 2 oz of Stan's each, did the soap thing and pumped them up. The front tire had some sealant spill out, but then held air just fine. Went for a quick ride and these wheels/tire feel AMAZING! Really happy. Thanks again for all the help.

Soap should have been applied on the first inflation.

Did you have the wheels on the floor when you inflated them with the sealant installed? Stem positioned above the sealant pooled at the bottom of the rim?

Did any air leak out the first time before fully inflating? It is okay but I think it is best when the tire is sealed tightly against the rim without any sealant in between.

Glad you enjoy them!

[Louis]

Boy, it looks to me like tubeless mounting technique is slowly approaching tubular gluing black-magic levels. I bet that once they are equally complicated then both will be rated as having the same ride quality. ;)

I have some wheels of each type, but haven't had a chance to try them yet. Need to get some tubeless tires.