so what's the allure of Pegoretti?

[wallymann]

serious query.

they're quite expensive and i'm having trouble understandign the allure.

mostly TIG welded custom steel with powdercoated finish using off-the-shelf tubesets.

no fancy lugwork or particularly noteworthy handiwork.

no fancy paint or particularly noteworthy finishing. it does look like you can get some fancy "watercolor" looking panels, though.

no chrome.

no bespoke tubesets.

no racing heritage.

they seem like well-made bikes indeed, but what's the allure to attract such premium pricing and long wait-times?

[ultraman6970]

My master builder that is retired now, did not even know the last name and the old man has 80 y/o. When i asked him he did not know, he even was friend with the 2 old guys who used to built originally in cinelli hehe

I agree with the OP. Like the bikes but can't get it 100% yet.

ps: maybe this is the allure... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dario_Pegoretti

[Tom]

No racing heritage? You must be joking. Ever hear of a guy named Roche, Battaglin, Chiappucci, Indurain, Tafi, Cipollini, Ghiroto, or Fondriest?

Jeez, do I rise to the troll bait...

[RonW87]

no fancy paint: Umm, Basquiat, nails, Ayer's rock, etc. Most would beg to differ.

no chrome: OK

no bespoke tubesets: Don't think this is true.

no racing heritage: Whoa! Who do you think made Big Mig's "Pinarello"? Many others from the era when racers slapped sponsor's decals on custom-bikes.

[echelon_john]

As for racing heritage, DP definitely has the credentials. (Built the Pinarellos ridden by Indurain).

To some, the bikes look beautiful. To some, they look awkward; a lot of folks don't like the large headtube extensions he uses sometimes.

I think a lot of what makes people who've ridden them love them is in the small choices that influence ride quality, like chainstay tube dimensions & orientation, and rear dropout design and integration that makes for a really efficient rear end. But agree that on the surface they may come off as a 'stock tig-welded bike'

[christian]

Oh yeah, and they're not powdercoated.

The allure is that they're fast, pure, great "race-ready" bikes that ride wonderfully.

[Wilkinson4]

Nuff said:)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3609/3317790296_732870f9e5_b.jpg

Only the Luigino takes my breath. The TIG bikes he creates and the paint jobs don't do it for me, although the "Day is Done" panels are very cool.

mIKE

[davidlee]

well, they are perfect :)
ride one and you will see

[Fixed]

hip artist like no other
lots of racing
lots of fans

cheers

[BillG]

Bikes are to ride. Those who ride a lot, and real fast, and long distances, ride Pegs. Like those listed above. They also look cool to many of us.

But if someone prefers a chrome lugged adult tricycle for riding the five miles to the coffee shop, more power to them!

[goonster]

no fancy paint or particularly noteworthy finishing.
The Pegorettis need to be seen in person before passing judgment.

The look is not for everyone, but I can appreciate that the finishing is part of the mystique and appeal.

[sg8357]

Pegoretti, the short history.

http://www.bikyle.com/pegoretti.asp

He's no Ernest Csuka, but he makes pretty nice bikes. :)

[bicycletricycle]

I am pretty sure that none of these are powdered, Custom handiwork would include sweet dropouts made for each tubeset, the twin plate fork available on the luigino in the past, custom oversize lugs for the Day is Done, custom drawn oversize stays for the Marcelo and Big Leg, handmade reinforced down tube on the Big Leg, Labor intensive pop art inspired paint options.

Just like many of the other super high priced long wait bikes (sachs, vanilla, weigle) you are buying the expression of a man with excellent taste. The all round all the time oversize lightweight steel mantra that Dario expresses in his bikes is unique.




no fancy lugwork or particularly noteworthy handiwork.

no fancy paint or particularly noteworthy finishing. it does look like you can get some fancy "watercolor" looking panels, though. I dont know what you mean here bout no fancy paint, what exactly constitutes fancy paint

no chrome.

no bespoke tubesets. Big Leg Emma and marcelo both utilize various custom columbus tubes.

no racing heritage. In the past Dario built many frames for racers that were ridden with some other brands decals

they seem like well-made bikes indeed, but what's the allure to attract such premium pricing and long wait-times?[/QUOTE]

[cmg]

Pegoretti frames tend to use large diameter chain/seat stays to stiffen the frame, along with placing ribs inside the downtube through cut slots (i forgot the name of the frame) on one his models, he's shown his ability to manipulate the amount of flexing the frame is doing under load. Since he's been building bikes for pros for a long time from steel one would think he would know a bit about how a frame performs under duress. That and he builds from the latest tubesets. one of the shops in my area has 3 of his frames hanging on the wall. i like the large diameter stays and dig the abstract paint jobs. Saw him hanging out at this years NAHBS in Austin, kind of a rockstar from the patrons walking by.

[jblande]

how about this true anecdote: as I was riding along Saturday on my Pegoretti Marcelo I thought to myself:
Wow, this bike does everything right, and it looks beautiful too. The bike simply rides the way I want a bike to ride: responsive without being harsh, fast, and accurate. Of all the bikes I have owned--and there have been a few too many--it is my favorite one.

[Spin71]

I love a rant when 99% of the OP's statements are inaccurate.

Powdercoat.. lol
Ever hear of Pegorichie tubing?
No chrome.. Thank god
His lugged frames are as good as it gets.

PS: Ride one than comment.

[goonster]

they're quite expensive and i'm having trouble understandign the allure.
The prices are quite high . . . but compared to what?

It's easy to lump the Pegs in with other "production" bikes, because they are listed as standard models with stock sizes. This can be misleading, because the level of craft, and Dario's approach to the process is really more on par with top-tier custom builders. The fact that many Peg's are sold in standard sizes and geometries should not detract from this.

[Spin71]

Yeah, these lugs are lame and that powdercoat is hideous :crap: .

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4862/pegorettiluiginorose2of.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/pegorettiluiginorose2of.jpg/)

[Climb01742]

as others have said, a ride on one will tell you all that can be said. it may speak to you, it may not. it's like a chef who gets raves. his/her food is the only test that matters.

[fiamme red]

Dario Pegoretti is a very talented builder and painter, but I admit that Wallymann's restored Gazelle in the custom gallery appeals to me far more than any Pegoretti. I don't really care for the looks of TIG-welded bikes, extended headtubes, or Basquiat paint themes. But to each his own.

[Fixed]

modern art
cheers

[Tom]

Dang. If that rendered well on my screen it'd be my new wallpaper.

To my earlier point: if I buy one more bike in my whole life it'll be a Peg.

[Spin71]

Dario Pegoretti is a very talented builder and painter, but I admit that Wallymann's restored Gazelle in the custom gallery appeals to me far more than any Pegoretti. I don't really care for the looks of TIG-welded bikes, extended headtubes, or Basquiat paint themes. But to each his own.

It doesn't have to be your cup of tea but you should have your facts straight. Than again this is an internet board. Facts are optional.

[jt2gt]

Dario Pegoretti is a very talented builder and painter, but I admit that Wallymann's restored Gazelle in the custom gallery appeals to me far more than any Pegoretti. I don't really care for the looks of TIG-welded bikes, extended headtubes, or Basquiat paint themes. But to each his own.

I have to say the restored Gazelle does look great. But as a steel bike to actually ride and race and keep for a long time, I'll take the Peg over the Gazelle any day. Plus...they aren't all Basquiat paint, extended HT and tig-welded.

jt

[goonster]

Dang. If that rendered well on my screen it'd be my new wallpaper.
Try this:

Unknown Skull (1981) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Hc505W05IxM/S8VKVJKreSI/AAAAAAAABbw/PDE0HvFApS4/s1600/Basquiat,+Jean-Michel+-+Untitled,+1981.jpg)

[SamIAm]

modern art
cheers

I like this, don't know what it is, but it appeals to me.

[Fixed]

I like this, don't know what it is, but it appeals to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Michel_Basquiat
here is one by Milton Ernst Rauschenberg

[uber]

I am no expert, but I love riding my Peg. Done . Hope you find a bike that does it for you too.

[SamIAm]

I wouldn't mind owning a Peg, but it would have to have a classic paint job, no extended HT and a carbon fork painted to match. So many Pegs seems to come with an unpainted carbon fork and that just kind of kills the vibe for me.

[dbh]

He worked with Richard Sachs to develop PegoRichie tubing from Columbus. Doesn't get more bespoked then that.

[rwsaunders]

I don't own a Peg as the racing geometry takes me out of the game, but his skills in getting the most out of 3-4 lbs of steel are pretty well proven. He's an artist who expresses himself through the canvas of a bike, like all of the great framebuilders. His brand loyalty says something of the man as well.

[SamIAm]

He worked with Richard Sachs to develop PegoRichie tubing from Columbus. Doesn't get more bespoked then that.

is PegoRichie the same thing as Columbus Spirit for lugs?

[ergott]

serious query.

they're quite expensive and i'm having trouble understandign the allure.

mostly TIG welded custom steel with powdercoated finish using off-the-shelf tubesets.

no fancy lugwork or particularly noteworthy handiwork.

no fancy paint or particularly noteworthy finishing. it does look like you can get some fancy "watercolor" looking panels, though.

no chrome.

no bespoke tubesets.

no racing heritage.

they seem like well-made bikes indeed, but what's the allure to attract such premium pricing and long wait-times?

What's the point of starting a thread on something you don't know anything about? What's the point of starting a thread judging someone's work that you know nothing about?

:crap:

[fiamme red]

So many Pegs seems to come with an unpainted carbon fork and that just kind of kills the vibe for me.I agree with that. I just don't understand a frame that appears to have taken so much time to paint, thrown together with a black Reynolds fork (or whatever the standard carbon fork is now), looking like an afterthought.

While steel forks aren't standard on his frames, I think that Pegoretti will make you one if you order a custom frame directly from him.

[mschol17]

I agree with that. I just don't understand a frame that appears to have taken so much time to paint, thrown together with a black Reynolds fork (or whatever the standard carbon fork is now), looking like an afterthought.

While steel forks aren't standard on his frames, I think that Pegoretti will make you one if you order a custom frame directly from him.

Until recently the forks were provided by Gita, not Pegoretti. That's why they weren't painted. Dario has been developing his own carbon fork (see NAHBS), so I imagine future forks will be painted to match.

[Ken Robb]

What's the point of starting a thread on something you don't know anything about? What's the point of starting a thread judging someone's work that you know nothing about?

:crap:

Well he wrote that he didn't get it and then proved it but I take it as a reasonable request for info.
Some have referred to the "extended headtubes" but I wonder, no kidding, if the bikes really have a dropped top tube.

[jblande]

Some have referred to the "extended headtubes" but I wonder, no kidding, if the bikes really have a dropped top tube.

bingo

[goonster]

So many Pegs seems to come with an unpainted carbon fork and that just kind of kills the vibe for me.
I started out feeling this way, but have come to accept that the Pegoretti approach is just different. It's a mistake, imho, to compare him too much to other, more "artisinal" builders. His customers may expect carbon forks, and since that is not something he has crafted, why paint it? We don't (normally) paint handlebars, or stems, or seatposts either.

It is often said that Van Gogh is the painter whose work most people relate to intrinsically. That is not really the case for me, but it's true for Basquiat. He suffered from overhype and an inflated art market in the 80's, but I think his work will continue to be appreciated long after most of his contemporaries are forgotten.

I highly reccommend the documentary 'The Radiant Child' (http://www.amazon.com/Jean-Michel-Basquiat-Radiant-Jean-Michel/dp/B003MWHUMY/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1304435912&sr=1-1), which is a bio of the artist that also shows his work chronologically. You are introduced to his street art and simpler works, and when the full-scale color paintings come on screen it is thrilling.

[Polyglot]

I think the OP is partially right in questioning why people buy them from dealers in the US who largely sell stock bikes. When you have a master like Dario who can custom design a frame for you and then throw in a custom paint job to boot, why would you even consider a stock frame? Quite a few of my Italian friends have made the trek to his shop and had a truly custom frame built. Dario has done something special for each of them, whether it be a modified geometry frame, a one-off paint job, a custom fork...

I'm not sure he'll do the same for foreigners, but I would expect so.

[cody.wms]

What's the point of starting a thread on something you don't know anything about? What's the point of starting a thread judging someone's work that you know nothing about?


Exactly.

They ride exceptionally.

They are built exceptionally well.

The guy behind the marque has most likely spent more time than any other builder at the pointy end of the european peloton.

Just because his name wasn't on the downtube doesn't mean he wasn't there. Until carbon took hold, few bikes were what they were labeled. He worked full time building pros bikes. Full time.

It's not about the paint, though it is a nice addition, as long as modern art doesn't scare you.

[jblande]

it is also my understanding that this fall he will have a new headset designed with Chris King to go along with the new carbon fork. He is also changing around the tube diameters to accomodate these new materials.

[fiamme red]

He worked full time building pros bikes. Full time.Please, let's not exaggerate here. He built Indurain's Pinarellos, from what I hear, and maybe a few others, but he wasn't single-handedly supplying the whole pro peloton with frames.

[fiamme red]

it is also my understanding that this fall he will have a new headset designed with Chris King to go along with the new carbon fork.A non-standard headset?

[garth]

I guess I could understand if this was posted on the bikeforums, but since this is on the Serotta forum, it's obviously a troll post. :no:

[ergott]

Well he wrote that he didn't get it and then proved it but I take it as a reasonable request for info.
.

The wording is such that he clearly doesn't think they warrant what they go for and uses reasons that aren't even accurate. It's a hater's thread in question form. Trolls do that. If he had legitimate questions he would actively participate in the discussion here instead of dropping a bomb and running away.

[jblande]

A non-standard headset?


yup: "Pegoretti is also partnering with Chris King to develop a new headset. The new design will incorporate a different diameter and a longer insertion in order to better flow with the lines of a classic steel frame."

http://www.2011.handmadebicycleshow.com/2011/02/26/pegoretti/

[goonster]

This thread illustrates why the Pegs inspire both confused headscratching and intense loyalty. Like the Bridgestone of old, they have a high "E-factor*". It is not immediately obvious why a Pegoretti is desirable at all.

They are just different enough, from both production and other custom bikes, that you are either on board or you're not. They don't make sense in an obvious way on paper, i.e. they're both expensive and not fully custom (from normal U.S. distribution channels). Then again, neither does something like an MX Leader.

(* = Explanation factor. Grant said his bikes required more time to explain to customers. Dealers hated that, and it made it very hard to expand market share.)

[cody.wms]

Some have referred to the "extended headtubes" but I wonder, no kidding, if the bikes really have a dropped top tube.

The larger ones do have a dropped top tube (above 60, I think).

My 58 has an extended headtube, about 2cm. It's a nice addition, and allows me to run less spacers than I would otherwise. But honestly, any competent shop can cut them down to size, if your fit dictates it.

[Pete Serotta]

He has a strong pedigree just as Kirk, Bedford, Spectrum, Sachs, Colnago, etc.... The one you lust for is the right one for you....

None of them make you go faster if they are designed to what you want and sized accordingly.

The closest I came was getting one like Steve Hampsten had in the green at Solvang a few years back. DBRK also has one.. It was a work of art.


Serotta has as deep or deeper pedigree in steel and racing in the 80s and 90s. (bet you are shocked that I mentioned that - and it is very true. ):banana: :banana: PETE (and yes I am biased but that does not mean there are not many excellent frames out there)


Just my 2 cents.....PETE


as others have said, a ride on one will tell you all that can be said. it may speak to you, it may not. it's like a chef who gets raves. his/her food is the only test that matters.

[cody.wms]

Please, let's not exaggerate here. He built Indurain's Pinarellos, from what I hear, and maybe a few others, but he wasn't single-handedly supplying the whole pro peloton with frames.

No, he didn't build everyone's bikes. That's for sure. But he did build over 20 bikes for Pantani one year.

What gets lost in these types of conversations is his experience. People think he builds bikes with big headtubes and stupid paintjobs. And they didn't hear of him until a couple of years ago. They dont see the fact that he built for Milani all those years, and on his own. He wasn't in the spotlight or even known in the US (remember the "best framebuilder you've never heard of" article?).

My point is simply this - he knows how to make a bike, and has experience, and that is the appeal. Maybe Goonster is right, these bikes might have a high "E-factor."

[texbike]

Wally,

At first I didn't get it. Then I got one. Now I get it.

The paint on mine sucks (the "Zoo" paint scheme-yellow snakes?!?!?!) but the ride is sublime and responsive. I've been fortunate to own several nice, high-end bikes over the years and I rank my Peg above all of them.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5672933977_612c50892f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39533604@N06/5672933977/)

Texbike

[fuzzalow]

Buying a Peg, just like any other bike whether mass produced or bespoke, is a leap of faith. If there isn't an open mind towards at least getting to a point where the bike can be evaluated on its own merits, then it is just wasting time.

Don't get Pegs? Then try one out. Or if the Peg doesn't click all the right tumblers for what is desired or thought to be desired, then don't bite. Because if one is predisposed to "not get it" then that's exactly what will happen. Differences between bikes are subtle. And the handling can always be screw-up with a bad fit. Blame the bike.

This was much too legitimate a response for a baiting OP question.

[wallymann]

that was a serious question, i honestly didnt know about pegoretti's bona-fides. the range of stuff he's done with his various models including apparently interesting tubesets and intriguing paint schemes and even some ornate lugs. there's definitely more to peg than i originally thought.

he's also done well to build the mystique around the brand, having that sort of cachet gives one the ability to charge premium prices. there are other boutique brands that have done the same. guess i'll keep tracking his brand to see where he goes with it. it saddens me to learn of his lymphoma diagnosis, my buddy's dad died from that a few years ago. good to see that he feels well enough to continue his passion. hope his treatment works.

"he wrote that he didn't get it and then proved it but I take it as a reasonable request for info."
to those that provided rant-free information for this thread, i sincerely thank you.

"What's the point of starting a thread on something you don't know anything about? What's the point of starting a thread judging someone's work that you know nothing about?"
i'm a pragmatist and like to learn. i can appreciate some of his old-world mentality when it comes to an artisans work.

"If he had legitimate questions he would actively participate in the discussion here instead of dropping a bomb and running away."
i really dont get the assumption of malicious intent. posting an honest question and coming back less than 24 hours away is "dropping a bomb and running away"? geez, cant a guy step away from his computer and maybe live his life?!

"Some posters on this thread should be ashamed of themselves."
ya think?! ;-)

[jr59]

I would say to all the responders to this thread. Click on the OP bike link.
He owns some nice stuff. No Pegs, but nice all the same.

No one can know everything, someone taught all of us at one time.

IMO; Some posters on this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

[c-record]

I've always wanted one. I probably heard the term 'planing' and such first used to describe the sweet way that Pegs ride. Tons of race cred, and something that would probably remain in my stable for the long haul once I get one.

The best bikes I've owned have been the ones that combine 'stiffness' with other factors that really refine the ride. I still pine for a Responsorium some day.

[ergott]

snipped

Perhaps if you asked the question without stating so many false presumptions your intent would have been better understood.

I'm sorry if I got you wrong on this.

[merlincustom1]

I have to agree with the OP that we are a tough crowd. He got some things wrong about Pegoretti, but some of his observations were correct, and I read his post not as gauntlet throwing but as an invitation for discussion. Things around here tend to degenerate rather quickly. Maybe it's human nature. And certainly being away from the keyboard for less than a day does not a runner and a hider make.

I fell in love at first sight with Pegoretti around 2003 when I saw a Fina in Ayers Rock hanging behind the cash register at Kyle's. I finally got a fixed Duende in Ayers in 2010 as a gift from my lovely wife. In between I read everything I could about the man and his work, and from what I read I knew the ride would not disappoint, and it hasn't. Like Sachs said on here awhile ago, in the end we wind up buying what speaks to us.

[Fixed]

[QUOTE=merlincustom1]. I finally got a fixed Duende in Ayers in 2010 as a gift from my lovely wife.}


i would really like to see a picture of that i have not seen one that can remember but my memory is not very good right now
thanks
cheers

[Spin71]

I have to agree with the OP that we are a tough crowd. He got some things wrong about Pegoretti

In the Mobs defense, he got everything wrong. :beer:

[cody.wms]

In the Mobs defense, he got everything wrong. :beer:

Well, they are quite expensive. :)

[Spin71]

Well, they are quite expensive. :)

So is every bike in their class, If he said I can't see putting down that kinda cash and waiting a year, I would have said many can't. But that wasn't his/her question/point.

[fuzzalow]

Well, they are quite expensive. :)
And "expensive" is a relative term that need not enter into the discussion.

I clicked the link to the OP bikes before I responded. No beginner bikes, not inexpensive bikes, looks like the OP been around the block a few times. Modern world - 30 seconds to Google Pegoretti. So the pieces didn't line up.

We're all comrades here, I retract the use of "baiting", I meant no harm.

[firerescuefin]

Don't claim to not know anything about a particular builder or brand.....then list off definitive negative statements (most of which are false).....and expect people to not be blunt in their responses.

That's a lot different than saying, can someone explain to me the history and mystique of brand X.

No harm no foul...everyone's over it.

[Ti Designs]

No racing heritage? You must be joking. Ever hear of a guy named Roche, Battaglin, Chiappucci, Indurain, Tafi, Cipollini, Ghiroto, or Fondriest?


Most americans can only name one bike racer, and he rode a Trek...

[oldpotatoe]

No racing heritage? You must be joking. Ever hear of a guy named Roche, Battaglin, Chiappucci, Indurain, Tafi, Cipollini, Ghiroto, or Fondriest?



Jeez, do I rise to the troll bait...

Thanks..you beat me to it.

'What's the allure______(put frame name here), I just don't get it.....

[Climb01742]

i was lucky enough to visit dario at his shop. in a corner, on the floor, dusty and almost forgotten was a box. in the box where dozens of build sheets for pro's bikes. the names on those sheets made my jaw drop. yet you'd have a hard time finding a more genuine, less-affected dude anywhere. some of his paint jobs and some of what's written and said about dario may give folks one impression. but spend any time with the man and i think you'd find someone you'd really like. he's at the top of his game yet he won't stop trying to see if there's one step farther he can take his craft.

[cody.wms]

So is every bike in their class, If he said I can't see putting down that kinda cash and waiting a year, I would have said many can't. But that wasn't his/her question/point.

This was a humor joke my friend. Hence the smiley.

Here's mine. I wish it had different paint, but it rides sooooo good. Took a day off of work Friday and spent 5 hours on it.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5680344567_62ebd2df03_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52811793@N02/5680344567/)
Pegoretti on Friday. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52811793@N02/5680344567/) by Cody Wms (http://www.flickr.com/people/52811793@N02/), on Flickr

[davids]

serious query.

they're quite expensive and i'm having trouble understandign the allure.

mostly TIG welded custom steel with powdercoated finish using off-the-shelf tubesets.
Dario pioneered TIG construction for racing bikes.

Pegorettis do not have powdercoated finishes.

Many of the tubesets Dario uses are, indeed, off the shelf. Note, however, that he has frequently been intimately involved in the design of these tubesets. He worked with Dedacciai for years developing tubesets, as well as in collaboration with Richard Sachs on the PegoRichie, or Spirit for Lugs, tubeset. More recently he's worked with Darryl McCullough on an OOS lugset.

no fancy lugwork or particularly noteworthy handiwork.
Dario does make one lugged model and, depending on his mood, the Luigino can have fancy lug carving and careful handwork. But the superficial part of framemaking is not where he puts his time and effort.

no fancy paint or particularly noteworthy finishing. it does look like you can get some fancy "watercolor" looking panels, though.
Although his paint designs and, even more so, his free-form Ciavete schemes can be very polarizing, it is incontestable that Pegorettis can be specified with "fancy paint".

no chrome.
Some of the Luiginos have some chrome on the fork crown.

(Is this a serious criticism? Really? Do all 'alluring' framemakers use chrome?)

no bespoke tubesets.
See my earlier comments. I doubt there are many framebuilders with a more intimate or sophisticated understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of various tubesets.

no racing heritage.
Dario got his start building for an Italian racing team. He built frames for top European pros from the 80s through the 00s, including Indurian's "Pinarellos", frames for Pantani, Boonen and quite a few others. His frames have won Grand Tours and the Classics.

they seem like well-made bikes indeed, but what's the allure to attract such premium pricing and long wait-times?
I personally own a Love #3 and a Responsorium, and they are superb bicycles. The Love #3 is responsive, solid and quick. The Responsorium is stable, smooth and fast. They are as good as any bikes I have ever ridden.

I'll leave you with two quotes, both from guys with more knowledge of racing bikes than just about anyone else I know.

#1, from Craig Gaulzetti, writing about the introduction of the Responsorium:


this guy has brazed over 40,000 race bikes in his life. he has designed thousands of race bikes....he dragged the entire industry out of the 1960's with his innovations in tubing design and building procedure....look at the proportions of that frame....look at the hand work of that frame, look at the tubing diameters of that frame and look at the balance and perfection of the angles and the lines as it all comes together into a coherent, comprehensive racing bicycle.

forget for a moment that it is made out of a new stainless steel tubeset that has tensile strenght and weight charachteristics that put other ferrous tubesets to shame and equal or exceed those of the best composites and alloys....this thing is the epitome of an art that never truly existed except in tiny historical accidents outside of myth; the man whos name is on the downtube designed that tubeset, mittered those tubes, welded those tubes and painted that frame and probably put the thing together too. it's a race bike that envelops the whole tradition and right paths and wrong paths of a century of italian race bike design and production. it pays homage to the past but destroys nostalgia and meets the travesty that is the race bike as compromised commodity and advertisment in the age of mechanical reproduction head on and spits on it and shows there is a better way.

forget all that bullshi'ite though...you want to know what makes this bike so special? it's a race bike designed and built by a guy who builds race bikes.


obtuse

#2 is from Richard Sachs:

after brazing and welding tens of thousands of tubes
for real champions as well as for people who can't pedal
14mph without knowing their stem angle, and doing so
for decades, the man and the machine are inseparable.
unlike legions of pretenders and folks who are simply
commercially driven and will do anything for the market,
dario has few equals. if all you're looking at is the frame,
some chainstays, a paint job - or any superficial dimension,
you won't see the art and you won't get the art.
mebbe i'll roll a head or two and post some text from an
email i sent dario a few months ago. it is shortened and
editted for forum reading:

i watched all the frames that georgio imported, first as giordanas,
and later as pegorettis, and knew that mister dario truly is the
best of all builders. i often wish i had other skills and more of
a curiousity about what is there in addition to steel. i believe
it takes a craftsman with no self-imposed bounderies to really
know what the limits are. i have stayed safely within the cocoon
of steel, and you have tried and succeeded with so many other
material combinations.

as you know from some of our exchanges and the posts i make
online, i am not too impressed from within our industry; i haven't
had much inspiration come from bicycles since the 70s, despite
still trying to forge ahead. but you, dario, are one of the true
geniuses of the craft, and i admire you like you cannot believe.
it is my pleasure to call you a friend, and an honor to be making
some of these decisions with you regarding the future of quality
steel tubing.

i want to thank you for all your dedication, for being the one
at the vanguard, and for being the leader of an industry that
should always have italian roots. the bicycle is a beautiful
object, and often the americans can complicate its beauty.
it's because of geniuses like you that the beauty remains.

he's an artist. the frames are art. i'm a fan. 'nuff said atmo.

I hope that helps you understand.

[ergott]

snipped.

Thank you for putting it far more eloquently than anyone else to date in this thread including me.

/thread.
:beer:

[dana_e]

I really like the PEGs

TIG is purpose built

yeah those monster frames for Indurain, that was Dario.

Nice stuff

[jblande]

davids: thank you for your post and for the quotes. really wonderful stuff.

[fiamme red]

I personally own a Love #3 and a Responsorium, and they are superb bicycles. The Love #3 is responsive, solid and quick. The Responsorium is stable, smooth and fast.In other words, both are superb bikes, and the main difference between the two is the paint scheme. ;)

[Lionel]

is PegoRichie the same thing as Columbus Spirit for lugs?
Yes

[buck-50]

The thing with custom bikes is that by definition, they won't appeal to everyone.

I've never cared for Pegoretti aluminum frames or his crazy-ass paint schemes, but then again, the person who buys a BLE with special paint isn't gonna like the custom I ordered. And that's fine. I don't want a Peg so I won't buy one, but I won't begrudge anyone who does...

In the end, it's great to live at a time when there are so many different choices for custom bikes- It makes me question why anyone would buy a $3k stock frame!

[palincss]

I have to agree with the OP that we are a tough crowd. He got some things wrong about Pegoretti, but some of his observations were correct, and I read his post not as gauntlet throwing but as an invitation for discussion. Things around here tend to degenerate rather quickly. Maybe it's human nature. And certainly being away from the keyboard for less than a day does not a runner and a hider make.


If you think the reaction on this forum is bad, you should check out what they had to say across the hall in response to BQ's review of the Pegoretti Love 3. In brief: made rec.bicycles.tech look good.

[palincss]

Well, they are quite expensive. :)

And, in truth, paint jobs excepted, the fat tube aluminum ones do look rather a bit like Cannondales at first glance, don't you think?

[buck-50]

If you think the reaction on this forum is bad, you should check out what they had to say across the hall in response to BQ's review of the Pegoretti Love 3. In brief: made rec.bicycles.tech look good.
I read that review and thought, "what's the deal, Jan just doesn't like it, big deal."

Then I read his review for the Surly Big Dummy and realized that outside of Rene Herse-inspired distance bikes, Jan really doesn't know what the hell he's talking about...

[fiamme red]

And, in truth, paint jobs excepted, the fat tube aluminum ones do look rather a bit like Cannondales at first glance, don't you think?Not really. Cannondales have much smoother welds. :)

[merlincustom1]

In the Mobs defense, he got everything wrong. :beer:

Well, "mostly TIG welding" and "no chrome" he got right, but let's not quibble. :beer:

[cody.wms]

And, in truth, paint jobs excepted, the fat tube aluminum ones do look rather a bit like Cannondales at first glance, don't you think?

Both look like bicycles. No one has ever mistaken mine for a Cannondale.

[cody.wms]

I read that review and thought, "what's the deal, Jan just doesn't like it, big deal."

Then I read his review for the Surly Big Dummy and realized that outside of Rene Herse-inspired distance bikes, Jan really doesn't know what the hell he's talking about...

My favorite quote from the Peg review:

"This means that bike handling may be less important for professional racers than it is for enthusiast riders who like to explore the limits of tire adhesion as they enjoy their bikes."

[merlincustom1]

[QUOTE=merlincustom1]. I finally got a fixed Duende in Ayers in 2010 as a gift from my lovely wife.}


i would really like to see a picture of that i have not seen one that can remember but my memory is not very good right now
thanks
cheers

Fixed, my Peg Fixed frameset is on page 9 of the Gallery.

[goonster]

My favorite quote from the Peg review:

"This means that bike handling may be less important for professional racers than it is for enthusiast riders who like to explore the limits of tire adhesion as they enjoy their bikes."
That review was deeply flawed, but Jan's definition of "enthusiast rider" may be different from yours . . .

[mschol17]

And, in truth, paint jobs excepted, the fat tube aluminum ones do look rather a bit like Cannondales at first glance, don't you think?

Other than the horizontal top tubes vs. sloping, the straight non tapered chainstays and seatstays vs. tapered and bent, the artistic paint jobs vs. annoying overbranding... yes they both look like race bikes.

[fiamme red]

That review was deeply flawed, but Jan's definition of "enthusiast rider" may be different from yours . . .When I read those words in the review, I thought of the Avocet ad with Jobst on his yellow bike.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/5460047009_03cda81f5a.jpg

[fuzzalow]

And, in truth, paint jobs excepted, the fat tube aluminum ones do look rather a bit like Cannondales at first glance, don't you think?
And a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse...although it feels now more like this thread is beating a dead one.

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE=merlincustom1]. I finally got a fixed Duende in Ayers in 2010 as a gift from my lovely wife.}


i would really like to see a picture of that i have not seen one that can remember but my memory is not very good right now
thanks
cheers

In that case Butch, when am I going to get the $1,000 you borrowed from me 3 weeks ago? :) :)

[Fixed]

[QUOTE=Fixed]

Fixed, my Peg Fixed frameset is on page 9 of the Gallery.

thanks
cheers ken as soon as i remember where i put it :)
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=823409&postcount=1
wow that made my day gorgeous

[steampunk]

Dario.

http://vimeo.com/13820554

[93legendti]

And a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse...although it feels now more like this thread is beating a dead one.

Faces!

[bike22]

i didn't read much of this thread but i don't quite under stand the pegoretti lust either, but i also don't under stand the serotta lust so maybe i am a little off upstairs... :o

[davidlee]

i didn't read much of this thread but i don't quite under stand the pegoretti lust either, but i also don't under stand the serotta lust so maybe i am a little off upstairs... :o

Sometimes I just gotta to wonder if some of these cats are on the wrong forum. :beer:

[bobswire]

modern art
cheers

I wonder if Dario is an admirer of Basquiat or coincidence? I like.

http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1029&bih=644&site=search&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Jean+Basquiat+paintings&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=

[rugbysecondrow]

Different strokes fellas. I don't understand the Vanilla/Speedvagen lust, so good thing there are options. Enough people obviously do though since there is a long wait for a Vanilla and people pay a ???? ton of money for the Speedvagen.
:beer:

[R2D2]

Until recently the forks were provided by Gita, not Pegoretti. That's why they weren't painted. Dario has been developing his own carbon fork (see NAHBS), so I imagine future forks will be painted to match.
Gita did more than supply forks. They created the whole Pegoretti brand.
He's a great builder and Gita is a great importer. It took both to build the brand.

[93legendti]

Different strokes fellas. I don't understand the Vanilla/Speedvagen lust, so good thing there are options. Enough people obviously do though since there is a long wait for a Vanilla and people pay a ???? ton of money for the Speedvagen.
:beer:
I agree. Pegs are wonderful bikes. If they speak to you and/or fit your needs, that's great. I've never heard of an unhappy Peg owner.

[mnoble485]

[QUOTE=Fixed]

Fixed, my Peg Fixed frameset is on page 9 of the Gallery.

This deserves pictures of the built up bike. Maybe in the Custom Thread so as not to get lost in all this verbage.

Mike

[victoryfactory]

He's an artist who expresses himself through the canvas of a bike, like all of the great framebuilders. His brand loyalty says something of the man as well.

Totally agree.
I also didn't "get" the Pegoretti until I saw them at the Richmond NAHBS
last year. It is real art, not utilitarian as some great bikes, but an element of fine art way beyond most "artsy" paint jobs I've seen.

I never got a thrill like that from looking at bikes on display before.
I must assume they are great as bikes, taking the word of all who have owned them
and the obvious pedigree, but what I didn't expect was the impact of seeing
them. True art, made me drool like no other bike I've seen.

VF

[stuckey]

forget it

[pdmtong]

there is a real bike underneath the paint. either it speaks to you or it doesn't, just as any custom builder does/doesn't. like someone else said, good thing there are choices.

I've got some nice bikes. Never had anyone comment on them around here. Was was next to my friend when someone pointed ot his Love #3 and asked, what kind of bike is that?

has to speak to you, no one else....

[wallymann]

seeing what folks have posted, their bikes and background for the brand.

i will say i'm not a fan of the extended head-tube when the seat-tube is not correspondingly extended. it would be OK if the head-tube extension were chromed, though. that's a real nit, though.

i love the phat chainstays and uber-creative paint schemes.

[anexetastos]

seeing what folks have posted, their bikes and background for the brand.

i love the phat chainstays and uber-creative paint schemes.

i've got a Big Leg Emma with the Guantanamo paint scheme (a custom thing, since the BLE doesn't come with that paint). forks are painted to match. it is a thing of beauty. picked it up from the legendary jack brunk. you can see it here: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=75566&highlight=brunk
it has chain stays as fat as most top tubes. lateral struts in the downtube for stiffness. the welding is perfect. the thing tracks so well on mountain descents you could almost take your hands off the bars and just lean. it sprints like a beast, climbs like it has a motor, rides distance like a dream, feels more comfortable and just downright freakin perfect than any other bikes i've ever ridden (and i've ridden plenty, Pegs and non-Pegs).
dario is an artist, makes unbelievable bikes, had made them by request for the best pros in the peloton for years (even with other brands' labels), worked with richard sachs to create pegorichie tubing for columbus in 2003-4 (http://2010.handmadebicycleshow.com/2009/07/richard-sachs-talks-pegorichie-tubing/), etc. the dead horse is beaten plenty above. i just couldn't believe the title of the post and had to add my two cents. glad you're now in the know and appreciating his craft. the best recommendation i've seen in this thread is this: ride a Peg, properly built up, and you'll get it.

[jlwdm]

Different strokes fellas. I don't understand the Vanilla/Speedvagen lust, so good thing there are options. Enough people obviously do though since there is a long wait for a Vanilla and people pay a ???? ton of money for the Speedvagen.
:beer:


Really. Beautiful bikes with a reputation of being great riding bikes.

Jeff

[rugbysecondrow]

Really. Beautiful bikes with a reputation of being great riding bikes.

Jeff

Yes, really. Hyped up in my opinion, but like i wrote, different strokes.

[jlwdm]

Yes, really. Hyped up in my opinion, but like i wrote, different strokes.


I don't think you should ever say "hyped' about other bikes (than Bedford).

Jeff

[Fixed]

why would i like this?
cheers

[rugbysecondrow]

Retracted. Thanks Steve.

[xeladragon]

This arrived at my front doorstep today...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_k6NxDFWBCfM/Tdgp-hRJ-ZI/AAAAAAAAA5I/Urjx_ZPEi1w/s400/IMG_0589.JPG

Can't knock it until you try it, so that's what I'm gonna do!

[sjbraun]

I bought a Marcelo based largely on the comments on this and other forums. (A test ride on a Big Leg Emma sealed the deal.)
I was pleasantly surprised to find that pretty much everything positive said about the bike rang true.



-Steve

[rugbysecondrow]

:)

[Elefantino]

I think we can keep this thread open now. :hello:

[superswede]

First post, bought myself a used Pegoretti Duende in excellent condition today!

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4396/image0002it.jpg (http://imageshack.us/f/684/image0002mc.jpg/)
click for larger size

Feels like sacrilege with Shimano though...

[JeffS]

Feels like sacrilege with Shimano though...


Oh please... if you believed that you wouldn't have done it.

This is just something people think they're supposed to say.

[rugbysecondrow]

I think we can keep this thread open now. :hello:


:beer:

[rugbysecondrow]

Oh please... if you believed that you wouldn't have done it.

This is just something people think they're supposed to say.


Dude, he said he just bought it used today. Lighten up and take it easy on the new fella, will you.

[Fixed]

First post, bought myself a used Pegoretti Duende in excellent condition today!

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4396/image0002it.jpg (http://imageshack.us/f/684/image0002mc.jpg/)
click for larger size

Feels like sacrilege with Shimano though...
beautiful bike enjoy it nice race set up

cheers

[m.skeen]

First post, bought myself a used Pegoretti Duende in excellent condition today!

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4396/image0002it.jpg (http://imageshack.us/f/684/image0002mc.jpg/)
click for larger size

Feels like sacrilege with Shimano though...

Congrats!!

Pegoretti + Shimano = Sacrilege? Nonsense. Ride it.

[jpw]

From what I've read it's all in the riding characteristics of his frames, and I've not ridden one so I can't really offer the OP an insight. There's only one way to find out I guess, but I'm happy with what I already have.

[JLP]

Well I doubt I can really add much to what's been said, but here you go:

I'm a steel bike addict, and I have been since hanging out at Kopp's back in the day. I have a garage full of bikes.

I would sell everything else in the garage before giving up my Pegoretti.

They make me smile.

[derosaking]

Hands down the best bikes i've ridden

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . before we up the minimum for the classifieds . . . :D :no:

BBD

[aoe]

. . before we up the minimum for the classifieds . . . :D :no:

BBD

haha...tryin to fly under the radar and not get called out by BBD, not gonna happen. I think I'll make another donation jus because of this....

[BumbleBeeDave]

haha...tryin to fly under the radar and not get called out by BBD, not gonna happen. I think I'll make another donation jus because of this....

:p

[Keith A]

Actually I think DK just likes Pegs :)

[thegunner]

Actually I think DK just likes Pegs :)

so why isn't he pegorettiking?

haha i'll show myself out -___-

[bluesea]

Thanks for bumping this cool thread!

My (yes, as of 9-12-12 I can say it's mine now) Duende was built about 5 weeks ago. There's probably too much raving about Pegoretti on the net, so I'll just say it takes me full circle back to my Cinelli Super Corsa which was acquired in '77-'78. This is it--at my age I don't plan to experiment with any other road frames unless its another Duende or a Responsorium.

Oh, and the thing about Italian bikes must have Campy--I'm kind of over that, although I did try Super Record at a local shop last week (with 2k+ in pocket), but I suspect the set up was sheight as I came away discouraged.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8023/7639863532_50b981af8e_b.jpg

[CaliFly]

1. See Magic Carpet Ride 1
2. Smile
3. Repeat

V
V
V
V
V
V
V
V
V
V
V
V

[majl]

Thanks for bumping this cool thread!

My (yes, as of 9-12-12 I can say it's mine now) Duende was built about 5 weeks ago. There's probably too much raving about Pegoretti on the net, so I'll just say it takes me full circle back to my Cinelli Super Corsa which was acquired in '77-'78. This is it--at my age I don't plan to experiment with any other road frames unless its another Duende or a Responsorium.

Oh, and the thing about Italian bikes must have Campy--I'm kind of over that, although I did try Super Record at a local shop last week (with 2k+ in pocket), but I suspect the set up was sheight as I came away discouraged.

One of the guys that works in a local shop has a Duende cross bike in this same arrows paint scheme. Looks beautiful in person. Congrats!

[oldpotatoe]

One of the guys that works in a local shop has a Duende cross bike in this same arrows paint scheme. Looks beautiful in person. Congrats!

It would ride better as a 650b...............

Doh!!

[dekindy]

Is there a source that summarizes the geometry and riding characteristics differences between the models? In other words why would you purchase one model over the other? I think the Big Leg Emma is built for heavier riders but not even sure about that?

[djg]

Thanks for bumping this cool thread!

My (yes, as of 9-12-12 I can say it's mine now) Duende was built about 5 weeks ago. There's probably too much raving about Pegoretti on the net, so I'll just say it takes me full circle back to my Cinelli Super Corsa which was acquired in '77-'78. This is it--at my age I don't plan to experiment with any other road frames unless its another Duende or a Responsorium.

Oh, and the thing about Italian bikes must have Campy--I'm kind of over that, although I did try Super Record at a local shop last week (with 2k+ in pocket), but I suspect the set up was sheight as I came away discouraged.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8023/7639863532_50b981af8e_b.jpg

Cool -- enjoy the ride.

Italian bikes must have parts. No pedals, no go. You can hang whatever parts you want, as you know. Something must have been fundamentally wrong with the setup on the super record you tried, however -- properly installed, it works like clockwork (and it's not finicky -- should keep working that way for a good while). But whatever -- hang the parts that work for you, get a nice set of hoops and tires, and you're ready to rock.

[reggiebaseball]

Is there a source that summarizes the geometry and riding characteristics differences between the models? In other words why would you purchase one model over the other? I think the Big Leg Emma is built for heavier riders but not even sure about that?

I would say that for most everyone who likes to ride but not race, especially over 40 the Duende is the right bike. It has all of the stiffness and racy feel up front of a modern carbon bike, with some of that steel "magic" to really eat up bumps in the back. I feel better after riding 60 miles on this bike than I do before I get on it.

If you are under 40, a very strong rider, and want to be FAST, the Marcelo is his signature bike. IT has the same awesome front end mated to a really beefy stiff back end. My Marcelo feels like a sledgehammer wrapped in velvet, it smoothly just smashes through bad pavement. I feel "FASTER" on the Marcelo but I doubt it. I certainly feel a little more achy in my bones after 60 miles.

If you are a SERIOUS GORILLA consider the Big Leg Emma, but it is still way, way too much bike. I really would one day like to meet someone who utilizes the BLE, I Think he would look like Griepel.

Love #3 is Aluminum, my understanding is that it is like the Marcelo (stiff-racy), but a tiny bit lighter. Dario says most people want this but few new need it. I have seen some serious bike-heads who like this best though.

I think this info is in the Gita catalogue explaining the models and such.

[reggiebaseball]

Thanks for bumping this cool thread!

My (yes, as of 9-12-12 I can say it's mine now) Duende was built about 5 weeks ago. There's probably too much raving about Pegoretti on the net, so I'll just say it takes me full circle back to my Cinelli Super Corsa which was acquired in '77-'78. This is it--at my age I don't plan to experiment with any other road frames unless its another Duende or a Responsorium.

Oh, and the thing about Italian bikes must have Campy--I'm kind of over that, although I did try Super Record at a local shop last week (with 2k+ in pocket), but I suspect the set up was sheight as I came away discouraged.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8023/7639863532_50b981af8e_b.jpg

I cannot help it if your shop is crap,
Get Campy Chorus, put it on your bike.

shinybikes.com - you will be pleased.

Dont let that shop assemble your bike.

[William]

Are Pegs the Saab (pre Chevy ownership) of the bike world....Not everyone gets them, but those who do love them?;):)

Would love to try a BLE under my gorilla frame.:cool:






William

[bluesea]

^ Hahaha, it was a sheight set up, but it did leave me wondering how SR compares to my last '05 Record which I was 105% happy with. Am keeping the door open by only doing a front end upgrade to 2012 Red, and keeping this campy freehub body for my Neutrons.

Makes sense in the short run, because I'm seeing a new frame being higher priority. Would be cool to see some direct comparisons of the Duende and Responsorium.

Pegs are less Saab, more Lotus.

[slowgoing]

I think the allure varies by model.

I have owned two Pegs, sold them both. The first was an aluminum fina estampa. Very unique, built like a tank, heavy for aluminum, nice breezer dropouts, beautiful ayers rock paint. It was very comfortable for an aluminum frame, rode like steel. In the end, I decided I'd rather have a steel frame than an aluminum one that rode like steel. The second was the lower level steel palosanto, discontinued model from many years ago. I felt it rode rather bland for a steel bike. Nothing really wrong with it but nothing stood out.

I'd love to try a Marcelo and Responsorum based upon the comments of forumites.

[nicrump]

A junior builders take.

Dario is one of the few, on and ever shrinking list, who still yields a torch and a paint gun, who also had the opportunity to build masses through a couple of eras where frame builders actually built frames for the professional peleton.

Thousands upon tens of thousands of frames through Dario's hands. With that comes tremendous feedback knowledge and experience beyond years. Something that I and dare I say any other builders who have started in the last 2 decades will never have the opportunity to experience. I honestly believe this.

Dario continues more prolific than ever. What he and others did in the past is lost. Probably forever. The peleton now rides ID/3D drawn bikes massed out of un-named factories. Sure, the designs are impacted by feedback maybe? Not bad, not wrong but definitely a divergence from Dario's past and his present.

With all this, Dario is still accessible, busy and being creative without pandering. I am sure there are others with a similar past still building but probably not in the manner as Dario.

Dario has transcended the history like no other.

[jr59]

A junior builders take.

Dario is one of the few, on and ever shrinking list, who still yields a torch and a paint gun, who also had the opportunity to build masses through a couple of eras where frame builders actually built frames for the professional peleton.

Thousands upon tens of thousands of frames through Dario's hands. With that comes tremendous feedback knowledge and experience beyond years. Something that I and dare I say any other builders who have started in the last 2 decades will never have the opportunity to experience. I honestly believe this.

Dario continues more prolific than ever. What he and others did in the past is lost. Probably forever. The peleton now rides ID/3D drawn bikes massed out of un-named factories. Sure, the designs are impacted by feedback maybe? Not bad, not wrong but definitely a divergence from Dario's past and his present.

With all this, Dario is still accessible, busy and being creative without pandering. I am sure there are others with a similar past still building but probably not in the manner as Dario.

Dario has transcended the history like no other.

Well said here^^^

:hello::hello:

[Birddog]

I find comparing a Peg to a Saab a little insulting, but then I have never been a Saab fan. If you want to make a car comparison please use an Italian make not a Swedish one.

[William]

I find comparing a Peg to a Saab a little insulting, but then I have never been a Saab fan. If you want to make a car comparison please use an Italian make not a Swedish one.

I have the utmost respect for Dario and his work....and I dig pre-Chevy Saabs.:p But you get my point. Insert any car maker that people either get...or don't.





William

[Rudy]

I returned a Luigino that evidenced a number of flaws that my stock Waterfords do not. It was an attractive ad but a disappointment when unwrapped.

No other experience with Pegorettis.

[Climb01742]

A point worth mentioning, I think: pegorettis have passionate admirers. I'm among them. We praise the bikes a lot. And some folks (naturally enough, I think) go, oh, really? They react to and question our extreme praise. That's fair.

But please know that Dario himself doesn't heap praise on himself or his bikes. He's one of the humblest, most genuine people I've met. To him, his bikes are tools. We, his fans, raise them higher.

So if you question the praise, cool. Really. But question us, his admirers. We say this glowing *****, not him. We may be over-enthusiastic fanboys. He isn't.

He's simply a damn hard working dude with a torch that tries to build the best tools he can. We make the fuss. He just likes a glass of wine and some good food.

[William]

A point worth mentioning, I think: pegorettis have passionate admirers. I'm among them. We praise the bikes a lot. And some folks (naturally enough, I think) go, oh, really? They react to and question our extreme praise. That's fair.

But please know that Dario himself doesn't heap praise on himself or his bikes. He's one of the humblest, most genuine people I've met. To him, his bikes are tools. We, his fans, raise them higher.

So if you question the praise, cool. Really. But question us, his admirers. We say this glowing *****, not him. We may be over-enthusiastic fanboys. He isn't.

He's simply a damn hard working dude with a torch that tries to build the best tools he can. We make the fuss. He just likes a glass of wine and some good food.


As they say: They're tools, not jewels.:)

But, some may disagree.





William

[FlashUNC]

A junior builders take.

Dario is one of the few, on and ever shrinking list, who still yields a torch and a paint gun, who also had the opportunity to build masses through a couple of eras where frame builders actually built frames for the professional peleton.

Thousands upon tens of thousands of frames through Dario's hands. With that comes tremendous feedback knowledge and experience beyond years. Something that I and dare I say any other builders who have started in the last 2 decades will never have the opportunity to experience. I honestly believe this.

Dario continues more prolific than ever. What he and others did in the past is lost. Probably forever. The peleton now rides ID/3D drawn bikes massed out of un-named factories. Sure, the designs are impacted by feedback maybe? Not bad, not wrong but definitely a divergence from Dario's past and his present.

With all this, Dario is still accessible, busy and being creative without pandering. I am sure there are others with a similar past still building but probably not in the manner as Dario.

Dario has transcended the history like no other.

Pretty much covers it I think.

[firerescuefin]

A point worth mentioning, I think: pegorettis have passionate admirers. I'm among them. We praise the bikes a lot. And some folks (naturally enough, I think) go, oh, really? They react to and question our extreme praise. That's fair.

But please know that Dario himself doesn't heap praise on himself or his bikes. He's one of the humblest, most genuine people I've met. To him, his bikes are tools. We, his fans, raise them higher.

So if you question the praise, cool. Really. But question us, his admirers. We say this glowing *****, not him. We may be over-enthusiastic fanboys. He isn't.

He's simply a damn hard working dude with a torch that tries to build the best tools he can. We make the fuss. He just likes a glass of wine and some good food.

Great perspective...thanks for sharing that....but I do like his bikes:cool:

[jimbolina]

I returned a Luigino that evidenced a number of flaws that my stock Waterfords do not. It was an attractive ad but a disappointment when unwrapped.

No other experience with Pegorettis.

May I ask what some of the problems were? I'm kinda picky myself, and interested in what others look for on purchases like this...

Jim

[Fixed]

Besides all the history with top racers
Anyone that builds a bike to honor t .monk is my kind of guy
Cheers

[Liv2RideHard]

I returned a Luigino that evidenced a number of flaws that my stock Waterfords do not. It was an attractive ad but a disappointment when unwrapped.

No other experience with Pegorettis.

So I am assuming that it was used? Please clarify for us before making a statement like that. I have seen a number of Pegs. I have hung out in Caldonazzo with the Master. I am very very picky. I looked over dozens of frames when in Caldonazzo. All were perfect in my eyes...and all done by hand.

Fatti con le mani...Made by hand. This must be kept in mind. Dario, Pietro and the rest of the guys build these with their own hands. There will be imperfections. That is one of the things that makes them so speciale. I want there to be imperfections. That way I know it was fatti con le mani.

If I look over my Tommasini there are imperfections. Even my Sachs road has imperfections. Dario is an artist. The man is brilliant. The man makes tools for us to use. Others have hit on this already. He is very humble. To him, these frames he produces are for our enjoyment. He is aiming to please us. When I was hanging around his workshop and admiring his work, it brought him joy to see me get excited about his work. Don't get me wrong, he is proud. He should be and has a right to be. Dario is one of the Masters and one of the few still standing.

Guy

[ultraman6970]

Not tying to cause problems but sincerely??? the best custom hand made frames are made in the USA.

[CaliFly]

Not tying to cause problems but sincerely??? the best custom hand made frames are made in the USA.

Not trying to be snarky, but that statement is severely myopic.

I'm a fan of the bikes...I have one. But I concede that there are other fine handmade bikes from different parts of the world.

[Grant McLean]

Not tying to cause problems but sincerely??? the best custom hand made frames are made in the USA.

I suppose that depends on what criteria you use to define "best".

Certainly a very high standard of cosmetic finish is being performed by
many custom builders in the USA. Which depending on your priorities,
is somewhere between 5% and 95% of the way people evaluate a frame.

-g

[Liv2RideHard]

Not tying to cause problems but sincerely??? the best custom hand made frames are made in the USA.

Ok...why? Now you have to expand upon your statement. No way you can say that and not back it up. Let's hear why.

In now way am I bumping machines made here. No way. I own a Sachs and a Ventana at the moment and have owned other bikes made here in the USA. I want a SV. I want a Firefly. I want a Spectrum. I want a Soulcraft...Geekhouse...Indy Fab...Spooky...GZetti...the list goes on.

You gotta back that up. I have already helped you in a big way mind you. But Dario is one of THE Masters. Much respect for him. He is an inspiration for so many builders.

[ultraman6970]

Knew this was going to happen... :)

And because of what Grant says is the reason I did not want to cause problems, and i did :)

Not saying his bikes are bad but is just thing of looking at the NAHBS during all these years... personally in the show there is a lot of stuff that is not my taste (type of bicycles, like touring for example) but just look at all the details all the american masters put to their creations. It is a lot of dough to get a custom frame but you get what you pay for... for example haven't seen an italian builder braze as americans do since a very very very long time in a matter of fact my 1st track bike was a cinelli and that thing straight forward besides the chroming was not like super well finished either, take the paint out and the lug work was pretty rough to say the least.

So now, put your hand over your heart with the eyes closed and think in the following.... anybody have seen italian fillets (or lug work) in a bare frame as nice as yamaguchi's for example??? Vanilla?? dykstra's?? ..other names escapes right now ok? not that I wanted to leave them out but between the old era and the new era of builders each and every of them work has nothing to envy to any super famous italian builder. Which was the answer?? no? only a few?...

Now look at the stuff shown at the british version of the NAHBS (cant find any link sorry)... From English is expected that they can braze really good but their creations aren't even close to what you can find in the american NAHBS. Not saying english bike is bad, mercier does pretty cool and well finished stuff.

Japanese build pretty classic straight forward stuff but here and there sometimes you find things that are really astonish to look and sure even under the paint you can find a really clean work, because they are careful of the details.

Again not saying european bikes are bad, because looks like some got mad or took my coment in the wrong way but if you look at it, the best craftmanship (i should have used this word instead), design (this is relative because many builder just do touring bikes because tourers have the dough) and beauty of their bikes is just here in the US...

In the case of pegoretti a lot of things have been said already in this thread...

Dunno.... is just my opinion.. anybody can lock this thread please?? :) it will continue going and going by the ones that are taking my words too personally and maybe think im attacking pegoretti because im not ok? :)

[Fixed]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1203883&postcount=1

[rugbysecondrow]

http://vimeo.com/13935357

How is this for allure?

[oldpotatoe]

http://vimeo.com/13935357

How is this for allure?

I'm surprised he's not blind by now, never using tinted goggles.

Faggin, Tomassini, Casati, Albeto Masi, DeRosa...there are other really nice, steel Euro frames still made but not the number of new and older US steel frame makers right now.

I wouldn't use NAHMBS as a guide, since it is almost more of an art show than bike show..why some have decided to not participate since so much is one-off, unique to the show. Yes it shows unique design and execution but not necessarily tools rather than trophies.

Heard Dario once say, "tanto fumo, no arrosto', 'all smoke, no fire', or something like that, when talking about 'modern' bicycle frame designs and materials.

Similar comments from Tommasini..also from Ambrosio and 'modern' wheels...

I lust after a Luigino, with the split fork crown fork, BTW...

AND the Rapha videos are really well made, IMHO.

[William]

http://vimeo.com/13935357

How is this for allure?

Great vid! And already on the vid page.


I'm surprised he's not blind by now, never using tinted goggles.

Faggin, Tomassini, Casati, Albeto Masi, DeRosa...there are other really nice, steel Euro frames still made but not the number of new and older US steel frame makers right now.

I wouldn't use NAHMBS as a guide, since it is almost more of an art show than bike show..why some have decided to not participate since so much is one-off, unique to the show. Yes it shows unique design and execution but not necessarily tools rather than trophies.

I lust after a Luigino, with the split fork crown fork, BTW...

Dazza comments on that in his vimeo video...
Darrell McCulloch - Framebuilder (Llewellyn Custom Bicycles)
http://vimeo.com/14916149


I would throw my leg over a BLE any day!


William

[bluesea]

Dunno.... is just my opinion.. anybody can lock this thread please?? :) it will continue going and going by the ones that are taking my words too personally and maybe think im attacking pegoretti because im not ok? :)



No problems. Whatever point you seem to be sharing, has zero to do with Pegoretti. Back on subject please.

[MadRocketSci]

As they say: They're tools, not jewels.:)

But, some may disagree.

William

I'm not the type to fetishize or ogle over aesthetic details. I've bought two unloved pegs...one was an 8:30am that painfully sat for a couple years on GVHbike's closeout list...it was just on a whim, and I didn't even take delivery for another year...it sat on layaway as I rode my legend ti. Only after a minor incident with a MUP pole in sausalito, did I decide to finally get the thing built up and delivered. I actually expected NOT to like it that much. But as I've said many times here, the thing rides exactly as I imagine a race bike should...it makes me want to go fast, it doesn't let the road break my stride, it goes where its pointed, and it puts me in what I consider a 'perfect' position. It has no fancy paint - its just blue. Some say the welds are chunky. I don't give a sh*t. The design is highly functional, a bit out of the mainstream at the time, and like nothing I had ever ridden. There's just nothing that's lacking IMHO.

My other peg is a used fina that, again, sat for sale for eons without any takers. I didn't really understand that...its a peg and it (should)* ride like a peg.

Bottom line, Dario makes great tools...the rest is just fluff IMO.

* still sitting in a box, just in case something happens to the blue one...

[round]

A junior builders take.

Dario is one of the few, on and ever shrinking list, who still yields a torch and a paint gun, who also had the opportunity to build masses through a couple of eras where frame builders actually built frames for the professional peleton.

Thousands upon tens of thousands of frames through Dario's hands. With that comes tremendous feedback knowledge and experience beyond years. Something that I and dare I say any other builders who have started in the last 2 decades will never have the opportunity to experience. I honestly believe this.

Dario continues more prolific than ever. What he and others did in the past is lost. Probably forever. The peleton now rides ID/3D drawn bikes massed out of un-named factories. Sure, the designs are impacted by feedback maybe? Not bad, not wrong but definitely a divergence from Dario's past and his present.

With all this, Dario is still accessible, busy and being creative without pandering. I am sure there are others with a similar past still building but probably not in the manner as Dario.

Dario has transcended the history like no other.
Nic ciao ,
many many thanks for your kind words ,I'm a little embarrassed, but if I told you that gives me no pleasure, especially from a colleague, I would say not the true. I try to do my best every day just like you and i am a big fan of your work.
take care
d

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . frame, I can think of VERY few builders besides Dario to whom I would go and just say "Here's my measurements, do whatever tickles your fancy and I'll love it."

I don't think I've ever seen one of his frames in the flesh or in photos that I wouldn't be proud to be riding.

BBD

[oldpotatoe]

. . . frame, I can think of VERY few builders besides Dario to whom I would go and just say "Here's my measurements, do whatever tickles your fancy and I'll love it."

I don't think I've ever seen one of his frames in the flesh or in photos that I wouldn't be proud to be riding.

BBD

Still lust over a Luigino, with the stepped steel fork..in 58...

[Rudy]

My Luigino had gaps of perhaps 1mm long and deep on two of the lugs. Some kind of slag rattled in the fork blades. The fork crown (major feature or the model) was incompletly stamped. The chrome, tired-looking.

I returned it with little inconvenience and with no regret. One anecdotal experience based solely on appearance, not performance. As always, take it for what it's worth.

Chap

[saab2000]

Nic ciao ,
many many thanks for your kind words ,I'm a little embarrassed, but if I told you that gives me no pleasure, especially from a colleague, I would say not the true. I try to do my best every day just like you and i am a big fan of your work.
take care
d

And there you have it from the man himself. I really should get one of these....

There are so many I should get, but this really is one of them. Marcelo for me. I love welded steel bikes!

[54ny77]

pretty darned good, sir.

thanks for the link!

http://vimeo.com/13935357

How is this for allure?

[jr59]

Nic ciao ,
many many thanks for your kind words ,I'm a little embarrassed, but if I told you that gives me no pleasure, especially from a colleague, I would say not the true. I try to do my best every day just like you and i am a big fan of your work.
take care
d

And there you have it from the man himself. I really should get one of these....

There are so many I should get, but this really is one of them. Marcelo for me. I love welded steel bikes!


So true!

[Greyball]

Allure....a Luigino
http://i45.tinypic.com/2m2sy6o.jpg

[MadRocketSci]

Here's the solution to high prices....

Bring back the 8:30AM!

Except, maybe give it a catchier name, I suggest "La Villa Strangiato"...

hire a good junior welder to build them, design a nice simple stencil set, charge around 2K for it...

you will have a bike that rides very closely to the Marcelo (even a bit lighter and perhaps a touch stiffer), doesn't rust, is more easily replaceable, that you can race, travel with, ride in the rain, or just put the price savings into wheels.

The problem the first time around was probably marketing related...people are drooling over Gaulzetti Corsas which are pretty much the same thing, except with modern touches. The 8:30AM/Strangiato should be the gateway peg for everyone who can't afford a 3500+ steel bike yet and want a pegoretti that rides pretty much like it.

I know, not going to happen....

[Waldo]

I owned two Marcelos, two Duendes, and a Luigino. I am 6'1" and 170lbs. The bike I liked the best was also the ugliest -- a late '90s orange Duende with aero shaped tubes and a steel fork. It was (and still remains) the best descending bike I've owned, but it was too ugly to keep, so I sold it. Then, I bought a new 2005 Marcelo. It descended almost as well as the Duende, but was too stout, so I sold it. Got another Duende with a Reynolds fork, but it was just meh. Then I got the Luigino. That was a nice bike but not much different from other steel bikes I owned at the time. The cache of the Pegoretti name wasn't enough, so I sold it. Wondering whether I missed something, I bought a used Marcelo, but no, as a friend who had ridden it put it, "it rode like a brick," so I sold it too. I am now Peg-less and I do not regret selling those frames, except perhaps the orange Duende. A friend is perfectly happy with his two Pegs and I am glad he is; those just weren't the bikes for me. And that's OK.

[texbike]

I've had a Fina Estampa which was a fantastic riding bike and now own an early 2000s Custom Team which appears to have the rear end of the Marcelo coupled with ovalized top and down tubes (Deda 16.5?). The Custom Team has a 1" steerer, steel fork, and uses a 27.2 seatpost. It doesn't accelerate as quickly as the Fina did when you crank on the pedals, but it is smooth, comfortable, and very neutral handling. I like it!

To me the allure of a Peg is that the bikes were designed and constructed by a craftsman that has built 1000s of race bikes over a period of more than 20 years and has had the feedback from some significant riders over that time period on what makes a bike work properly. To me, that results in a bike that is more than up to the rigors of what I would put it through.

Texbike

[christian]

Pics? Does it have the superman paint job? That's my absolute #1 dream bike.

[texbike]

Pics? Does it have the superman paint job? That's my absolute #1 dream bike.

Are you referring to the red/blue paint combo? If so, mine has the same paint layout, but in white/blue with silver logos.

Texbike

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/mspess/IMG_62481.jpg
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/mspess/IMG_62491.jpg
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/mspess/IMG_62501.jpg

[christian]

Beautiful! Yeah, I meant the red/blue with yellow stripe. Silver stripe between the white/blue on that one? Looks fantastic.

[texbike]

Beautiful! Yeah, I meant the red/blue with yellow stripe. Silver stripe between the white/blue on that one? Looks fantastic.

Yessir. It has the silver break between the blue and the white. It's the only Peg that I've seen with this scheme and color combo.

Texbike

[T.J.]

. . . frame, I can think of VERY few builders besides Dario to whom I would go and just say "Here's my measurements, do whatever tickles your fancy and I'll love it."

I don't think I've ever seen one of his frames in the flesh or in photos that I wouldn't be proud to be riding.

BBD

thats exactly what i did with Sacha and i have zeron/nada/zip regrets. i would wager the outcome would be the same with Dario

[Climb01742]

Yessir. It has the silver break between the blue and the white. It's the only Peg that I've seen with this scheme and color combo.

Texbike

tex, gorgeous indeed. and perfectly outfitted. well done.

[snowcrash19]

I just love that this is even a thread. I don't own a Peg nor will I ever have anywhere near the amount they cost. But seriously, whats not to love about a great hand built bicycle with art on it? Thats like asking whats the allure of going fast on a bicycle. Duh, because its awesome!

[Marz]

Just started riding the Marcelo after a layoff commuting and occasionally riding my other bikes.

The Pegoretti Marcelo is (IMHO) the best bike in the world. Smoooooth.

If I was allowed only one racing bike, The Peg would be it.

[witcombusa]

I just love that this is even a thread. I don't own a Peg nor will I ever have anywhere near the amount they cost. But seriously, whats not to love about a great hand built bicycle with art on it? Thats like asking whats the allure of going fast on a bicycle. Duh, because its awesome!

Disagree. I don't like the "art" at all.

sorry but a Peg won't even make my top 10 "would like one" list.

[bigflax925]

They're not for everybody. I also wondered about the allure... until I sawDario at NAHBS Austin.

I knew then I had to have one.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/bigflax925/Bikes/Pegoretti%20Luigino%202003/a99c5662.jpg

[MadRocketSci]

the art is the ride

[cnighbor1]

Darn He is Italian and one of few builders left building steel in Italy.
TIG even Waterford uses it.
I say it comes to this buy a bicycle to ride and perhaps race. Or buy a bicycle for it looks. If going for looks than steel with lugs best choice and maybe only choice

[54ny77]

it's taken me several years to warm up to them, but i'm starting to get an appreciation of some of the paint schemes. some of them i really like and would ride one in a heartbeat (almost bought one recently). regardless, i definitely respect the craftsmanship.

and of the craftsmanship, i don't doubt they're well made. you can kinda count on two hands the number of folks around the globe who've been around and have credibility like pegoretti.

they're not for all, but for some they're perfect.

[soulspinner]

i was lucky enough to visit dario at his shop. in a corner, on the floor, dusty and almost forgotten was a box. in the box where dozens of build sheets for pro's bikes. the names on those sheets made my jaw drop. yet you'd have a hard time finding a more genuine, less-affected dude anywhere. some of his paint jobs and some of what's written and said about dario may give folks one impression. but spend any time with the man and i think you'd find someone you'd really like. he's at the top of his game yet he won't stop trying to see if there's one step farther he can take his craft.

The last sentence seems to be true for so many great ones-they never stop trying to get better each time they make something.....

[rounder]

I went to NAHMBS a few years ago when it was in Richmond and Dario was there. His display bike was beautiful.

[Clean39T]

Why not.

...>>>>...

[rallizes]

This thread started interestingly. :)

[Clean39T]

This thread started interestingly. :)

My apologies to Wallyman, who I respect greatly.. but there's just too much good banter that sprang from his thumb-in-the-eye opener not to dredge it from the archives.

[geordanh]

Hahaha this is awesome.

Between this and all the other threads, I gotta fking build that mxxxxxo this weekend.

That white day is done with the yellow venetian panel and original hollow rear dropouts is my ultimate grail bike. Just insanely gorgeous. Haven't yet had the pleasure of riding a bike with UOS pegoritchie yet.

[nobuseri]

Not a bad way to start off the new year. Multiple Peg threads, abound.

I like where this is going and it may draw me back in to getting another.

[Tickdoc]

It's the looks, it's the man with his unbelievable spirit and skill infused into each one, it's the aura.....but it really is the ride.

I am at home on my duende more than any other bike I have ridden. It just feels great and responds well. That taller headtube suits me as I age, and the frame has a springy feel where you need it, without feeling loose. Doesn't hurt that it is also uniquely hand painted and really cool looking.

[witcombusa]

As a rider and never a racer his stuff has never had any appeal to me. But that's the great thing with where we have come to. There are so many great builders these days that between them serve all flavors of bikes.

Vive la différence !!! :banana:

[Clean39T]

As a rider and never a racer his stuff has never had any appeal to me. But that's the great thing with where we have come to. There are so many great builders these days that between them serve all flavors of bikes.

Vive la différence !!! :banana:

:hello: :beer: :hello:

Civility and rationality achieved.

Nice.

[AngryScientist]

In the spirit of good moderation I cleaned this thread up. Please keep it on topic.

[Clean39T]

If anybody is looking for a 57, you're not going to find a better deal for a recent production Marcelo than this one just listed at TheProsCloset:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=3198257&postcount=13003