So what's the most flat resistant clincher?

[EPOJoe]

After all this talk about blow outs, I've been searching around for a bomb proof clincher for training, but despite manufacturers declarations of wonder layers of fool-proof protection, all I have to do is head over to Road Bike Review to find examples of how these flat resistant tires proved anything but that for lots of folks who have tried them. And then there's the question of tight fitting/loose fitting tires, with the tight fitting tires being less likely to come off the rim. Will a wire bead *gasp* make it less likely for a tire to come off a rim or to get stuck in spokes/fork, resulting the Superman maneuver? I've thought about going with tubulars, but I'm pretty sure that an idiot like me with no knowledge of gluing these things to rims is more likely to suffer a problem with a tire rolling off a rim than from a flat with a clincher. Anyone try these super flat resistant clinchers and had luck with them?

[Ti Designs]

After all this talk about blow outs...

There's a simple two step prcess for eliminating blow-outs:

Step 1) If you have a tire/rim combination that allows a well mounted tire to come unbeaded, change the tire, the rim or both.

Step 2) Learn how to mount a tire.

Most people who know how to mount a tire never have a blow out just from the tire lifting off the rim. There will always be isolated cases of tires not holding the bead, but they are so few and far between that it's not worth the thought you've already given it.


all I have to do is head over to Road Bike Review to find examples of how


Stop reading road bike review. That site is all about isolated examples - that's all the reviews could be, it's all about the sample size of one. There was a time that I read MTBreview for laughs, people would review trails and I could just tell they didn't know the area at all... Road bike review is an open forum for people to ***** about what they don't like - it's noise.


And then there's the question of tight fitting/loose fitting tires, with the tight fitting tires being less likely to come off the rim.


Nope. The tire staying on the rim is all about the interaction between the bead of the tire, the hook bead of the rim and the pressure inside the tire. You can mount the tightest tire in the world on a rim, but if the bead doesn't hold it's going to blow off.

[Marco]

I have found it very difficult to mount tires on my Campy Protons....so did my LBS and they are a very experienced shop. Does anybody else find this to be the case? I have been told that Campy designed the wheels to avoid tire roll-off. Does anybody know anything about this?

[gasman]

I have tried two flat resistant clinchers.
The specialized armadillo- flat resistant but a terrible ride. Don't get them, I'm sure others would agree.

I have switched to Conti gatorskins 700/25 and have great luck commuting with them. I have yet to flat after just over a year and will need to replace them soon.I have ridden over glass and lots of road junk especially this winter and near the university after party weekends. They are mounted on open pros and were easy to install.

[PBWrench]

Giving your tire a good stretch first can help. That and a bit of patience and you'll be fine with Campy rims. BTW, I've found that Michelin ProRace install more easily than most.

[Birddog]

I have found it very difficult to mount tires on my Campy Protons..
They are a total beitch to mount. I hate them for that reason. I have Continentals on mine and that combo is terrible. I find it totally unacceptable to produce a rim like that. Surely they could have designed that rim about 2mm less in diameter and still been safe.

Birddog

[Marco]

"They are a total beitch to mount. I hate them for that reason."

Amen Bro

[weiwentg]

They are a total beitch to mount. I hate them for that reason. I have Continentals on mine and that combo is terrible. I find it totally unacceptable to produce a rim like that. Surely they could have designed that rim about 2mm less in diameter and still been safe.

Birddog

Continentals are tough to mount at first but get better with some stretching, ime. Michelins + Campy rims = terrible.

[Spinsistah]

I have found it very difficult to mount tires on my Campy Protons....so did my LBS and they are a very experienced shop. Does anybody else find this to be the case? I have been told that Campy designed the wheels to avoid tire roll-off. Does anybody know anything about this?
I hate the Proton wheelset for this very reason. I cannot get a tire changed without help. I sold them, and got Mavic Ksyriums. Easy as pie to change a tire , even a new one.

[Ozz]

sheesh! how often do you guys/gals need to change tires? ;) :)

most bullet proof i have heard of are the armadillos...never ridden 'em., but hear they suck.

Conti gators or Ultras work well....

[Jeff N.]

I have yet to get a flat with my Specialized Mondo S-works 700X23's. They take 127 PSI too. They're quickly becoming my tire of choice over all others these days. They LOOK great too! Jeff N.

[Ti Designs]

Surely they could have designed that rim about 2mm less in diameter and still been safe.

Nope. The bead seat diameter for a 700c wheel is 622mm. It's one of the very few standards that multiple companies within the bike industry can agree on, please don't ask them to change it.

As for ease of mounting, it's got nothing to do with the bead seat, it's got to do with the diameter of the base of the rim (where the rim tape goes). Try to put a tire on the rim all at once without working it around - you'll never do it. What allows you to mount the tire is the fact that the tire's bead sits BELOW the rim's bead seat as you're pulling it on.

So now you're thinking "why don't they just lower the base of the rim?". There are trade-offs there too. Part of the problem is that everybody looks at the weight of the rim first. The bead seat of the rim sticks up and has to hold the pressure of the tire, a shorter section can be made lighter while making that section taller would mean adding more material. Another factor is pinch flats. There is a ratio of volume within the rim to volume in the tire above the rim. When you hit a pothole, the tire flex can only take up the volume in the tire. Example: let's say you have a large tire on a shalow rim with 90% of the air volume above the bead of the rim. In hitting a pothole you could use all but 10% of the compression of that tire before you got a pinch flat. (it's really not that simple, the volume within the whole system must be taken into account, but it makes for a good example). If you have a skinny tire on a deep rim with say 50% of the air volume above the bead seat it'll pinch flat all the time.


I have yet to get a flat with my Specialized Mondo S-works 700X23's. They take 127 PSI too.

My guess here is that you read the packaging which said "127 TPI" - that's threads per inch, it has to do with the cotton casing, not the PSI rating. As for your review (and please don't take this as anything personal, because it's not), My guess is that you have less than 1000 miles on the tires. Specialized S-works tires rely on their tread to stop flats, the casing is all about ride quality (the same clearly can't be said about their Armadilo tires). When the tread wears thin they pick up flats at an alarming rate. So you can get 1500 flat free miles on a great feeling tire, then you get a flat, and another one 20 miles later, and another one 5 minutes later, then as you're changing that... My real point here is that it's a review of a product with a sample size of 1 - my guess is not even one (how many miles do you have on them?). It's what I hate about Road bike review, nobody understands the statistics behind a valid product review.


most bullet proof i have heard of are the armadillos...never ridden 'em., but hear they suck.

And not to be outdone, we have a review with a sample size of zero. Yeh, Armadillos don't have a great ride quality. hell, it's not even a good ride. Yeh, they suck - but with good reason. The Amadillo tire is designed not to puncture. I can think of a lot of commuters out there who don't much care about ride quality, they just never want to have to stop on the way to work to fix a flat.

[Jeff N.]

Ti Designs: Yep, it says 127 tpi. But I've been putting 127 PSI, or thereabouts, in them. Recommended pressure is 120 PSI with a max of 130 PSI, according to what my horrible eyes, using Rite Aid Specials reading glasses, can make out. I'd say I have just a tad over 1000 miles on these bad boys. The high pressure sure makes for a nice lively ride! And I've had flats with other tire brands with far fewer miles on 'em. Maybe I'm just having good luck staying clear of the sharpies on the road. All I can tell you is....I really like these Mondo S-works tires. Jeff N.

[CarlosContreros]

I use "tube-liners" in my quest to avoid punctures...and
while I never have flats anymore I think the "ride quality"
is kinda funky!!

The rear-tire gets feeling very "squiggly" when I pump up my
Conti's to over 100 psi!
Of course....my weight seems to fluctuate from 190 lbs.
to 205 lbs.....and when I'm heavier I feel the rear-tire become
"squishy"!....I can almost feel the tube-liners in the tire!!

[coylifut]

...are truly the most flat resistant tire. i've pulled out folded over razor blades, tacks, wire...all without puncturing the tube. the trick with getting a decent ride out of armadillos is buying the largest size that will fit your bike (i'd never use the 23s) and under inflating them. I run em as low as 85 pounds. initially they are tuff to mount, but that's what makes em safe to run at such low pressure.

I wouldn't put em in the training tire catagory, i'd put em in the commuter or rain bike catagory. the dillos are the tires you use when getting a flat is really inconvenient. Like on the rear of a fixed gear, when it's raining or after dark.

another thing the dillos do for you is give you more road. you know that 18 inch path adjacent to the gutter strewn with glass and other debris? with the dillos you can ride right trough it. that comes in handy when riding at night and mixing with commuter traffic. With that said, i'm sure you'll find somone who's flatted a brand new dillo on it's maiden voyage. it happens to modern steel belted auto tires, it can certainly happen to bicycle tires.

so, you dillo haters feel free to send me your discarded dillos. i'll see that they get used.

[palincss]

sheesh! how often do you guys/gals need to change tires? ;) :)

most bullet proof i have heard of are the armadillos...never ridden 'em., but hear they suck.

.

I had a set of the 38-622 Nimbus Armadillos on my commuter for about 1 month. The old Nimbus had been a fairly cushy tire that rode pretty well. The Armadillo version rode like it was made of cement. Harsh ride, high rolling resistance that felt like I had a brake stuck on; eventually I took them off and replaced them with Panaracer Paselas.

If you live in a place with goathead thorns, or if your commuting route is strewn with metallic debris and broken glass, you might like them. Otherwise, I'd forget them.

[christian]

I had the 28mm Armadillos. They were awful. Like they make you want to take the subway to work. (Which does avoid flats...)

Another flat-impervious tire is the Schwalbe Marathon XR. Smallest size is 700x35, so I doubt they'd fit on a roadbike. I've only ridden these in 26", so I can't say anything about the ride quality.

- Christian

[palincss]

I had the 28mm Armadillos. They were awful. Like they make you want to take the subway to work. (Which does avoid flats...)

Another flat-impervious tire is the Schwalbe Marathon XR. Smallest size is 700x35, so I doubt they'd fit on a roadbike. I've only ridden these in 26", so I can't say anything about the ride quality.

- Christian

Indeed, Schwalbe in general seems to have a good reputation for flat-impervious tires. If your definition of "road bike" has clearance for 700x28s let me suggest the Rivendell RuffyTuffy. It's a great handling and great riding tire, and it is quite flat resistant. Gets really good wear, too.

[christian]

Steve,

My definition of roadbike include the Rambouillet, so I can get Ruffy Tuffys on. That said, I am not crazy about them. Soggy at 90psi, harsh at 100psi. I do love Roly Polys, though. On my commuter, I have a Roly Poly on the front and Ruffy Tuffy on the rear. This is a pretty good combo.

- Christian

[little.man]

Fortezza road or tricomp with Mr Tuffy's. Great wearing tire.

Or probably any clincher with Mr Tuffy's or similar liner.

[William]

I know some folks think low-brow but Specialized All Condition tires in a 25 or 28 are very flat resistant. A training tire only. So far I've had very good luck with them (knocking on wood :) not flatting under my behemouthnesss ).

William ;)

[RichMc]

"They are a total beitch to mount. I hate them for that reason."

Amen Bro

I run nothing but Michelin tires, both Pro Race and Carbon models. Two of the bikes are fitted with Campy wheels. They are not that bad to mount tires, even Michelins. You may have to use tire levers sometimes. Sometimes a rag or small towel between your hand and the tire helps also. Last Thursday I fixed a flat on the front wheel and didn't need tire levers or the rag to reinstall the tire. Just so you and others know that Campy wheels don't totally *uck when it comes to getting tires off & on.