Di2

[mlindy]

Does anyone have experience with Di2 and is it worth the upgrade? From all reports, it's amazing.

[WickedWheels]

As a certified Di2 mechanic and seller of many Di2 bikes/groups...

Our shop has not had anyone come back with any issue other than one... a customer forgot to charge the battery for 1/2 a season.

As for my impressions...
The rear derailleur shifting is not a quick as it is with the mechanical group. The front is quicker and much more "on the ball". It doesn't feel like a chain is being forced onto a different ring and the shifting is always dead on. There is no feeling of "finessing" a shift. You're either shifting or you're not. The closest comparison I can make is shifting a car with an automatic transmission in the +/- mode rather than actually driving a manual.

The biggest advantage I see is for newer riders who have not developed any finesse yet or for people that are looking for multiple shift positions. The triathletes should be all over this. The advantage should be right on par with aero wheels. Recreational riders should be all about this simply so that they can have a shift position on the tops rather than always reaching for the hoods.

I can't wait until the technology trickles down to hybrids (in a decent price point) as it will radically change who rides bikes. They will not be nearly as scary for new riders.

I see a lot more bikes coming back for adjustments with mechanical Dura-Ace than I do with Di2... that's not because mechanical is more popular. We see it at a rate of 2 to 1, I would estimate, but Di2 rarely comes back (only once or twice that I can recall in the last 2 years).

All of that being said, I ride Campy and consider SRAM a four-letter word. I love the engineering behind Shimano, but Campy feels better to me. And no, I don't think that Campy's electronic is going to be anything special. If looking for electronic shifting I would stick with Shimano.

For 2012/2013 Shimano has a goal of having an electronic Ultegra and 105 options. They are shooting to have $3000 carbon bikes with electronic 105, according to my rep.

[mlindy]

Thanks. Lots of good information.

[thwart]

'Ryun' did a nice review a week or so ago... try searching the general discussion section for it.

[jpw]

As a certified Di2 mechanic and seller of many Di2 bikes/groups...

Our shop has not had anyone come back with any issue other than one... a customer forgot to charge the battery for 1/2 a season.

As for my impressions...
The rear derailleur shifting is not a quick as it is with the mechanical group. The front is quicker and much more "on the ball". It doesn't feel like a chain is being forced onto a different ring and the shifting is always dead on. There is no feeling of "finessing" a shift. You're either shifting or you're not. The closest comparison I can make is shifting a car with an automatic transmission in the +/- mode rather than actually driving a manual.

The biggest advantage I see is for newer riders who have not developed any finesse yet or for people that are looking for multiple shift positions. The triathletes should be all over this. The advantage should be right on par with aero wheels. Recreational riders should be all about this simply so that they can have a shift position on the tops rather than always reaching for the hoods.

I can't wait until the technology trickles down to hybrids (in a decent price point) as it will radically change who rides bikes. They will not be nearly as scary for new riders.

I see a lot more bikes coming back for adjustments with mechanical Dura-Ace than I do with Di2... that's not because mechanical is more popular. We see it at a rate of 2 to 1, I would estimate, but Di2 rarely comes back (only once or twice that I can recall in the last 2 years).

All of that being said, I ride Campy and consider SRAM a four-letter word. I love the engineering behind Shimano, but Campy feels better to me. And no, I don't think that Campy's electronic is going to be anything special. If looking for electronic shifting I would stick with Shimano.

For 2012/2013 Shimano has a goal of having an electronic Ultegra and 105 options. They are shooting to have $3000 carbon bikes with electronic 105, according to my rep.

Excellent insight. Auto trim and multiple hand positions are very good innovations. I like the new sprinter buttons.

[August]

In my experience, there is no reason not to buy Di2 other than that it is expensive. That's it, it's that good. In terms of durability, I've removed an absolutely filthy group from a Madone, cleaned it thoroughly in a parts washer and reinstalled it, and it shifted perfectly without any adjustment. Front shifts are not particularly fast--watch the front derailleur cage as you shift--but it's deliberate, never misses. My Super Record shifts faster but not as consistently and evenly. With that said, I now find myself, as I write this, accepting the fact that I just don't shift that often. Maybe it's the way or the terrain on which I ride, but a well adjusted, properly installed group, cable or electronic, will get the job done without a problem, and I don't shift enough to notice any issues comparing the top end groups from two manufacturers (I have bikes with Di2, SR and Red; Red is not so good). I also maintain that severe conditions like 'cross and mountain are those for which electronic shifting will pay off most--no cables means consistency.

[oldpotatoe]

Does anyone have experience with Di2 and is it worth the upgrade? From all reports, it's amazing.

'Worth' is a big word, kinda like 'ride quality'.

More consistent shifting over time. Best FD shifting by far owing to a very stiff(and very expensive) big chainring on the 7900 crank.

Since it is one gear at a time in either direction, actually slower shifts than any mechanical system.

Very expensive with very expensive replacement parts if you fall and kill a lever(no singles available-sets only) or rear derailleur, for example.

Pretty whizbang, and as one of the probably many 'certified' by shimano Di2 mechanics, won't be getting it for myself.

I have ridden it but it wasn't a OMG' moment for me.

I Like the Wicked Wheels comment, 'sram is a four letter word'...teehee, funny and true, IMHO.

[Dave Wages]

I had a chance to sit in on Shimano's tech seminar during this year's NAHBS, and Wayne Stetina had an interesting way to describe Di2. He likened it to a light switch in your house, once that switch is installed properly, it never goes out of "adjustment", it just works, for 20,30, maybe 40 years. Over that time, you'll need to change bulbs, or on a bike, change your cassette, chain, maybe even pulley wheels, but the switch never wears out or goes out of adjustment like a mechanical system. For example, he has something like 20,000 miles on his Di2, and he's replaced almost all the parts that wear in the drivetrain, but the Di2 has never needed adjustment since he built the bike. That's kinda cool and impressive.

Cheers,
Dave

[hockeybike]

Has anyone marketed this to people who have wrist issues? The reduced amount of force/range of motion needed to go up/down the cassette could be a HUGE selling point for a lot of people with wrist issues.

[benb]

Ugh.. you had to say that didn't you. I bet it would really help my left wrist. But damn they gotta get the price down a lot before I would try it.

[Acotts]

I had a chance to sit in on Shimano's tech seminar during this year's NAHBS, and Wayne Stetina had an interesting way to describe Di2. He likened it to a light switch in your house, once that switch is installed properly, it never goes out of "adjustment", it just works, for 20,30, maybe 40 years. Over that time, you'll need to change bulbs, or on a bike, change your cassette, chain, maybe even pulley wheels, but the switch never wears out or goes out of adjustment like a mechanical system. For example, he has something like 20,000 miles on his Di2, and he's replaced almost all the parts that wear in the drivetrain, but the Di2 has never needed adjustment since he built the bike. That's kinda cool and impressive.

Cheers,
Dave

I like Wayne. That dude is a rocket to ride with.

[PoppaWheelie]

I've had Di2, SR and Red...yet to try 7900. Not much to add that hasn't been said except that I think you really need to pay attention to the fit of the levers to your personal (are there any other kind?) hands. The Campy levers are by comparison very short and curvy....almost too short for my wide man-hands. Shimano levers have a "pistol" feel and are much longer. They also have less of a curved transition from the bar ramp. The net effect is that the default hand position on the Shimano lever feels considerably further out than Campy, or even SRAM. The difference between this position and the tops gives you a bit more variation (and more length off the ramp), but I think does warrant pulling back a bit on the stem length, IMHO. If you ride an ergo bar with a lot of flat ramp section you could end up with a lot of flat up there. Not good or bad, just something to bear in mind. I think they work really well with short shallow classic bars like the Rotondo.

I love it though...it is SO satisfying to hear the FD servo during an upshift. My brain has learned to equate that sound to "ok, now GO"...

And those brakes....oh, those lovely brakes...

[yipsan]

Has anyone marketed this to people who have wrist issues? The reduced amount of force/range of motion needed to go up/down the cassette could be a HUGE selling point for a lot of people with wrist issues.

This is very true. For riders with hand strength issue, or riders with smaller hands, front shifting has always been uncomfortable with a long stroke against strong springs. And there are still many riders who cannot tell the half step click vs. the full click.

My wife's bike runs Di2 and she is much happier to shift the front up and down than when she was on a mechanical one, and that it just works make her feel confident to shift when she wants instead of preemptive-shifts-just-in-case-it-misses.

[AFS]

Ugh.. you had to say that didn't you. I bet it would really help my left wrist. But damn they gotta get the price down a lot before I would try it.
Every time my busted thumb starts acting up I think more and more about Di2. But yeah, those prices are just too high for me. I look forward to seeing the Ultegra/105 versions.

[dd74]

This month's Bicycling magazine has a small pre-test on Campy SR electronic, just for comparison. At least you can shift more than one gear at a time with Campy.

[katematt]

I was thinking about DI2 the other day while on a ride and the essay in the 1992 Bridgestone catalogue regarding friction shifting versus index shifting came to mind. We have certainly come a long way.

Interesting arguement of purity, simplicity and the human connection to the bike that obviously through the years didn't hold water, at least for the industry at large anyway.

Not sure if I could push a button to shift, but I suppose like anything else could get used to it.

[PoppaWheelie]

Not sure if I could push a button to shift, but I suppose like anything else could get used to it.

To some extent I certainly agree, but there is something "mechanical" about the Di2 shifts that remains. The chain still gets pushed around, there is still the same "thunk" when it hits the gear...you feel all that just as before through the frame and pedals. It's just the finger push sensation that changed...and with the lever design it is really just the down-shift button that has a button'y feel to it. It still feels like a bike, and for some funny reason my bike didn't get much faster when I installed it. Perhaps it might be defective?

[jonnyBgood]

Very good impressions from all and I agree. One of my good friends is the local Shimano Rep so I have been able to ride a few different bikes with Di2.

I currently have 7900 "mechanical" on three of my bikes. I recently built a new bike and was debating weather to go with Di2 and for the reason I had two other Non-Di2 I went with "mechanical" again so if I had to swap parts here and there there I would have no issues.

I'm just not convinced just yet or enough to switch over all my bikes.

It's interesting still to see how many "paid" Shimano guys still choose to use "mechanical".

[Bob Loblaw]

I'm reading a book called The Lost Cyclist about a turn-of-the-century attempt to circle the globe by bike. It was the time of the earliest safety bicycles, and apparently number of cyclists said the safety bicycle would never replace the high-wheeler because that enormous wheel rolled so smoothly over bumps, and was better. Technology marches on

I was thinking about DI2 the other day while on a ride and the essay in the 1992 Bridgestone catalogue regarding friction shifting versus index shifting came to mind. We have certainly come a long way.

Interesting arguement of purity, simplicity and the human connection to the bike that obviously through the years didn't hold water, at least for the industry at large anyway.

Not sure if I could push a button to shift, but I suppose like anything else could get used to it.