PSA- Bin Laden Dead

[avalonracing]

Not a political thread. Just a PSA if you want to turn on the TV to catch the President talk about it on TV. A press conference about to start.

Now lock this.

[Blue Jays]

Hurray, USA! Hurray, world!

[Aaron O]

Long overdue.

[rustychisel]

Saved me the trouble of starting a thread...

ugh, is this politics?

justice?

retribution?

[Aaron O]

Retribution. Justice would be discrediting his dogma and movement to where no one took these lunatics seriously and they couldn't recruit anymore.

I'll settle for retribution at the moment.

[Jason E]

This is important, and goes to show the hunt never stopped. I am sure some will turn this political, and figure out a way to give credit to one group or another...

I'm not sure if this is Justice or Retribution. I know thousands of American Families will take it to heart that their loved ones can rest in peace almost 10 years later.

[dave thompson]

Operationally his death won't affect much, his number 2 guy has been calling the plays. He was the 'spiritual' leader. Still, I'm glad he's dead.

[Aaron O]

This is important, and goes to show the hunt never stopped. I am sure some will turn this political, and figure out a way to give credit to one group or another...

I'm not sure if this is Justice or Retribution. I know thousands of American Families will take it to heart that their loved ones can rest in peace almost 10 years later.

+1...screw the politics, a man who helped kill Americans and a symbol of our wealth and power finally got his. Will it make a difference? Who knows...probably not...but I'm glad they got him.

[Wilkinson4]

Cut one head, many grow back. I worry what may happen, what may be put into motion, etc... I travel a bit for my job and will be pretty nervous when I step on the plane next week.

Regardless, glad the sob is gone.

mIKE

[BobbyJones]

-

[Charles M]

http://www.sacramentoplasticsurgeonblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/trident.bmp

Well Done.

Edited. Had that wrong. 1st report last night was US Army Ground forces, a small team via helicopter. That would have been 1st SFOD-D...

Updated, they said SEALs involved. Could have been both, but then I would guess we'll not ever get full disclosure.

[firerescuefin]

It means everything and nothing all at the same time. Kudos to the Special Operators that took him out.

[Wilkinson4]

Anybody watching some of the celebrations on television??? Is it just me or is that a bit surreal?

mIKE

[Aaron O]

Not appropriate, deleted. Sorry mods.

[firerescuefin]

Aaron...we've had him in the crosshairs numerous times and let him get away.....trust me. Thankfully, our leadership let the professionals do their job this time.

[93legendti]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/US_Army_Special_Operations_Command_SSI.svg/125px-US_Army_Special_Operations_Command_SSI.svg.png

Well Done.
Indeed, although I wonder if it was Rangers of GBSF...

[sjbraun]

GBSF??

CNN and NBC say it was a Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) operation, which means it could be the Army's 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta, the Navy's Naval Special Warfare Development Group, or the Air Force's 24th Special Tactics Squadron; or one of those other tactical groups we don't know about.

[93legendti]

GBSF??

CNN and NBC say it was a Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) operation, which means it could be the Army's 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta, the Navy's Naval Special Warfare Development Group, or the Air Force's 24th Special Tactics Squadron; or one of those other tactical groups we don't know about.
GBSF=Green Beret Special Forces

[Bud_E]

GBSF=Green Beret Special Forces

Whoever pulled it off, chalk one up for the good guys. I'm hoping we can get some more of these bastards.

[michael white]

they just said it was SEALS thru helicopters

[mgm777]

I am thinking it was hand picked Delta, Secret Army, Seals, Force Recon and maybe AF CCT. Politically, in the military, every service wanted someone on the team. Every single member on that squad was hand-selected, and you can bet, was considered to be the best of the best.

[93legendti]

Whoever pulled it off, chalk one up for the good guys. I'm hoping we can get some more of these bastards.
Absolutely. The best thing would be NOT to say which Unit got him.

[firerescuefin]

Not that I wouldn't have taken a Reaper or Predator shoving a Hellfire up his @ss, but I do take satisfaction that he died at the hands of our best. I imagine Coronado is a pretty fun place to be right about now

[StanleySteamer]

Thank you President Obama, US intel, and the heros that completed a 10 year mission to rid the world of evil. Hitler and Stalin just got a new roommate.

[sjbraun]

There appears to be more than one acceptable spelling of "Osama."

My apologies to Fox News for implying they didn't know how to spell.

[firerescuefin]

I am thinking it was hand picked Delta, Secret Army, Seals, Force Recon and maybe AF CCT. Politically, in the military, every service wanted someone on the team. Every single member on that squad was hand-selected, and you can bet, was considered to be the best of the best.


Any one of those teams was more than capable of pulling off this mission. They are already the elite of the elite, but some are better at certain missions than others. Different tools for different jobs. Not better, just different.

[LegendRider]

Absolutely. The best thing would be NOT to say which Unit got him.

From an initial report:
U.S. Joint Special Operations Command Special Mission Unit (SMU) from the United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group (DEVGRU — formerly known as Seal Team Six) did the shooting. There were other JSOC spotters on the ground, as well as two special operations helicopters and an unmanned drone overhead.

[C5 Snowboarder]

Place the body on Ebay and see how much it brings... then give the $$ to the 9-11 victims..

[93legendti]

Apparently 1 of 4 choppers used in the assault crashed, so let's hope the crew members survived and any injuries are not serious.

[BrownBear]

From talking with my brothers and father (former SEAL, Ranger, and SOG), they believe it could have only been done with attachments like Delta or Seals or at the very least JSOC

[93legendti]

It's already on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Special_Operations_Command

JSOC is credited with killing Osama Bin Laden in an operation authorized by President Barack Obama on May 1, 2011 near Islamabad, Pakistan.[2]

[michael white]

Apparently 1 of 4 choppers used in the assault crashed, so let's hope the crew members survived and any injuries are not serious.


they already said no American injuries. they torched the broken chopper on the way out just to be sure.

[dd74]

Supposedly Osama has already been processed and buried at sea (according to CNN).

Supposedly, Obama has sealed his second term as president (again, according to CNN).

Osama is killed 66 years to the day after Adolph Hitler dies. (according to history).

Interesting...

[leooooo]

Wow, the details that are coming out!
We had that site on surveillance for 2 years before making the move.

The lack of casualties on our side and the bullet in bin laden's head was well worth the time and planning!

[jpw]

Wow, the details that are coming out!
We had that site on surveillance for 2 years before making the move.

The lack of casualties on our side and the bullet in bin laden's head was well worth the time and planning!

In politics timing is everything.

[witcombusa]

Where's a thread lock when we really need one.......

[BumbleBeeDave]

Where's a thread lock when we really need one.......

I'm too busy jumping up and down and cheering.

BBD

[soulspinner]

Navy Seals, glass of red to ya............. :beer:

[Mr. Squirrel]

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll67/korgak_ironfist/misc/animated%20gif/squirrel-dance.gif

[Ray]

Here's to EVERYONE who had a hand in pulling this job off. Took their time, made sure, and did it right!

My wife and I were at the Phillies/Mets game last night and suddenly these chants of USA, USA, USA started spontaneously going up around the stadium. We didn't know what was going on and I couldn't get a cell signal in our upper deck seats (probably because EVERYone was checking their smartphones at the same time). Eventually I heard little bits of conversation that led me to surmise that we'd somehow gotten Gadhafi, but we didn't know what had actually happened until we left the game and could get a signal.

Its not mission accomplished - I don't think this problem has a solution as much as it has to be continually managed from here on out - but its a huge victory in the process!

-Ray

[Pete Serotta]

You can voice views, opinions, etc.....


No closing.... :beer:

[AngryScientist]

here's to the good guys.

[93legendti]

Now the news is reporting 24 Navy Seals conducted the raid...I really wish they had kept the name of the Unit classified...

[Climb01742]

mark twain sums it up for me, "I didn’t attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."

[SamIAm]

As pleased as I am with this outcome, I guess it bothers me just a bit to see the celebrations. It reminds me of the scenes from Muslim countries celebrating 9/11. It seems a bit undignified.

However, I think it is awesome that they finally got him.

[RPS]

As pleased as I am with this outcome, I guess it bothers me just a bit to see the celebrations. It reminds me of the scenes from Muslim countries celebrating 9/11. It seems a bit undignified.

However, I think it is awesome that they finally got him.
+1

Exactly what I've been thinking since last night. Regardless of how depraved a person may be, and how necessary and justified the killing, I can’t personally relate to throwing a party. Besides, in the long run I’m not sure it’s in our best interest to openly demonstrate such joy.

[palincss]

Place the body on Ebay and see how much it brings... then give the $$ to the 9-11 victims..

Osama Bin Laden sleeps with the fishes.

[1happygirl]

+1

Exactly what I've been thinking since last night. Regardless of how depraved a person may be, and how necessary and justified the killing, I can’t personally relate to throwing a party. Besides, in the long run I’m not sure it’s in our best interest to openly demonstrate such joy.

+1000

Won't this make him a martyr?

[jpw]

+1000

Won't this make him a martyr?

Yes. A myth would have been less dangerous.

[drewski]

Let's salute the bravery of our Seals. Incredible. By reading the about the design of the Bin laden compound, it sounds like it was formidably fortified.

[leooooo]

As pleased as I am with this outcome, I guess it bothers me just a bit to see the celebrations. It reminds me of the scenes from Muslim countries celebrating 9/11. It seems a bit undignified.

However, I think it is awesome that they finally got him.

Totally see where you're coming from. But we're not celebrating the death of innocents.

[Vientomas]

+1

Exactly what I've been thinking since last night. Regardless of how depraved a person may be, and how necessary and justified the killing, I can’t personally relate to throwing a party. Besides, in the long run I’m not sure it’s in our best interest to openly demonstrate such joy.

Agreed.

[avalonracing]

As pleased as I am with this outcome, I guess it bothers me just a bit to see the celebrations. It reminds me of the scenes from Muslim countries celebrating 9/11.


Last night it was a bunch of drunk 20 year old kids in front of The White House. These kids were 10 years old and were playing with toys when 9/11 happened. While they are the right age group to have friends overseas in uniform I think that most of these DC college kids were just looking for somewhere to put their drunk energy.

While I don't think we should censor a crowd in front of The White House, I think that this frenzied celebration looks exactly like the overseas protests and celebrations that frighten and enrages middle America when it is seen on TV.

[michael white]

the Vatican spokesman took the high road:

". . . In front of the death of man, a Christian never rejoices but rather reflects on the grave responsibility of each one in front of God and men, and hopes and commits himself so that every moment not be an occasion for hatred to grow but for peace."

[BillG]

As pleased as I am with this outcome, I guess it bothers me just a bit to see the celebrations. It reminds me of the scenes from Muslim countries celebrating 9/11. It seems a bit undignified.

However, I think it is awesome that they finally got him.

I totally agree, and that's why it was good that no photographs of dead bodies were released.

Hey all you cyclists is anyone interested in doing this ride with me with the amazing Susan Retik on 9/9-911? She is one of my greatest heros and the ride goes to building community centers for Afghan war widows.

http://www.beyondthe11th.org/

http://www.beyondthe11th.org/events.beyondthebike.php

[93legendti]

I am pretty sure death made him a martyr, rather than spontaneous celebrations...

Neither the USA, US Armed Forces or American Gov't is officially, openly celebrating. If others choose to do so, it's their prerogative.

[William]

I understand your point and the feelings behind it. A lot of American, European, and Middle Eastern blood was shed in the hunt for this man and his accomplices. All because he took it upon himself to plan and execute the killing of thousands of American lives. I'm not losing any sleep over the fact that he's dead, or the fact that people are celebrating his death. As unfortunate as it may be, there are people in this world that would kill you or me without a second thought... and celebrate it. Celebrating this event in the street is not my thing, but when it comes down to us or them, I pick us every time. For Bin Laden, this was the only way he was going out. I'm happy we could oblige him (though some might say a little "Black Jack" might have been in order).


W.

[93legendti]

THIS announcement is a mistake:

US team's mission was to kill Osama bin Laden, not capture
By REUTERS AND HILARY LEILA KRIEGER
05/02/2011 15:29


Special forces team that shot al Qaida leader had no intention of merely taking him prisoner; "This was a kill operation," says security official. WASHINGTON - The US special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaida mastermind, not capture him, a US national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.

[michael white]

THIS announcement is a mistake:

US team's mission was to kill Osama bin Laden, not capture
By REUTERS AND HILARY LEILA KRIEGER
05/02/2011 15:29


Special forces team that shot al Qaida leader had no intention of merely taking him prisoner; "This was a kill operation," says security official. WASHINGTON - The US special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaida mastermind, not capture him, a US national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.

I don't agree. you don't send in the Seals for tea and cookies.

[Nooch]

All I can say is today is the perfect day to rock a red, white and blue stars and stripes kit :)

I'm rocking some stars and stripes socks under my slacks today :beer:

[ergott]

THIS announcement is a mistake:

US team's mission was to kill Osama bin Laden, not capture
By REUTERS AND HILARY LEILA KRIEGER
05/02/2011 15:29


Special forces team that shot al Qaida leader had no intention of merely taking him prisoner; "This was a kill operation," says security official. WASHINGTON - The US special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaida mastermind, not capture him, a US national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.


+1 Unnecessary detail. "Killed during operation" is more than sufficient.

[oldguy00]

I find it very hard to believe he has been buried at sea.
Years and years of hunting him, they finally get him, and they get rid of the body within 24 hours? Using Muslim tradition as the excuse?
I don't buy it. Not saying they didn't kill him, but this part of the story seems strange...

[indyrider]

I tipped my glass last night to the unit that took this bastard out. Yep, I celebrated :beer:

[michael white]

I find it very hard to believe he has been buried at sea.
Years and years of hunting him, they finally get him, and they get rid of the body within 24 hours? Using Muslim tradition as the excuse?
I don't buy it. Not saying they didn't kill him, but this part of the story seems strange...

this was probably the best out they had. Couldn't exactly bury him on US soil, could they? get what they needed to make positive id, then that's it.

[William]

I find it very hard to believe he has been buried at sea.
Years and years of hunting him, they finally get him, and they get rid of the body within 24 hours? Using Muslim tradition as the excuse?
I don't buy it. Not saying they didn't kill him, but this part of the story seems strange...

I will admit that this crossed my mind as well.




W.

[rwsaunders]

THIS announcement is a mistake:

US team's mission was to kill Osama bin Laden, not capture
By REUTERS AND HILARY LEILA KRIEGER
05/02/2011 15:29


Special forces team that shot al Qaida leader had no intention of merely taking him prisoner; "This was a kill operation," says security official. WASHINGTON - The US special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaida mastermind, not capture him, a US national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.

Why a mistake, as the drones and "kill teams" are doing the same thing every day in Afghanistan and Pakistan? It just happened to be OBL's house yesterday. A statement that teams were sent to kill him, as opposed to reports of him dying valiantly while evading capture...which would you rather a jihadist read?

I am sure that that OBL and his crew understood that it was only a matter of time before before his whereabouts were known and would think we are fools not to have taken him out. We keep looking at terrorism issues from an American perspective. When you swap shoes and deal with it like your opponent does, it sends a clear message that you can play too.

[93legendti]

I find it very hard to believe he has been buried at sea.
Years and years of hunting him, they finally get him, and they get rid of the body within 24 hours? Using Muslim tradition as the excuse?
I don't buy it. Not saying they didn't kill him, but this part of the story seems strange...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/bin-laden-body-buried-sea

Senior US officials initially told news agencies that his body would be disposed of in accordance with Islamic tradition, which involves ritual washing, shrouding and burial within 24 hours...

The 24-hour rule has not always been applied by the US in the past. For example, the bodies of Uday and Qusay Hussein – sons of the Iraqi dictator – were held for 11 days before being released for burial. Burial at sea is rare in Islam, though several Muslim websites say it is permitted in certain circumstances...

[93legendti]

Why a mistake, as the drones and "kill teams" are doing the same thing every day in Afghanistan and Pakistan? It just happened to be OBL's house yesterday. A statement that teams were sent to kill him, as opposed to reports of him dying valiantly while evading capture...which would you rather a jihadist read?

I am sure that that OBL and his crew understood that it was only a matter of time before before his whereabouts were known and would think we are fools not to have taken him out. We keep looking at terrorism issues from an American perspective. When you swap shoes and deal with it like your opponent does, it sends a clear message that you can play too.

Because it's better to give fewer details when more aren't needed. Better for the enemy to not know who and how the killing took place. Better for the commandos doing the assault. For the terrorist who wants to die, knowing a team is being sent to kill him makes his task easier and the kill harder. For the terrorist who would surrender when faced with capture, this needlessly escalates the confrontation.

There are high value terrorists who would surrender when staring down a team of 24 Navy Seals.

Dead men do not give up secrets.
All warfare is based upon deception.

To be clear, it's fine that the order was to kill. It's great that the Seals did it.

The enemy doesn't need to know and shouldn't know what the order was and which of our guys did it.

[firerescuefin]

I am going to caution anyone passing judgment on how people are processing this.

I was a 22 year old Airman/AF Firefighter in Riyadh in 1996 when The Khobar Towers was attacked. I spent 3 days in search and rescue effort pulling bodyparts of my friends and aquaintances out of the building.

I was in Kosovo in 2001 during Sept 11, when the NATO soldiers from the UAE were celebrating the attacks on the towers....and were removed under armed escort from the compound as the rest of us were angry and stunned.

I have spent 18 months in the middle east ToOs and have lost friends and aquaintances. My wife runs family support programs for the military in Colorado, and has been there for families @ 2 in the morning telling them a loved one has been killed and to help start picking up the pieces.

I have not lost a family member, and can't imagine what I would feel if I lost a son/daughter/dad/mom/brother/etc.

Last night I was stunned.....felt no joy.....was angry, and glad he was gone. I could not relate to those cheering in the stadiums or on the street, but certainly wasn't angry/dismayed that they were.

Will he be a Martyr...certainly. Will there be more attacks on our soil...no question. Are there 10s of thousand of disillusioned radical muslims that would/will take his place....absolutely.

This is personal for everyone on this board and for 10s of millions around the world. Respect each persons perspective, and don't pass judgement.

[rugbysecondrow]

Because it's better to give fewer details when more aren't needed. Better for the enemy to not know who and how the killing took place. Better for the commandos doing the assault. For the terrorist who wants to die, knowing a team is being sent to kill him makes his task easier and the kill harder. For the terrorist who would surrender when faced with capture, this needlessly escalates the confrontation.

There are high value terrorists who would surrender when staring down a team of 24 Navy Seals.

Dead men do not give up secrets.
All warfare is based upon deception.

To be clear, it's fine that the order was to kill. It's great that the Seals did it.

The enemy doesn't need to know and shouldn't know what the order was and which of our guys did it.

Agreed.

[Vientomas]

I am going to caution anyone passing judgment on how people are processing this.

I was a 22 year old Airman/AF Firefighter in Riyadh in 1996 when The Khobar Towers was attacked. I spent 3 days in search and rescue effort pulling bodyparts of my friends and aquaintances out of the building.

I was in Kosovo in 2001 during Sept 11, when the NATO soldiers from the UAE were celebrating the attacks on the towers....and were removed under armed escort from the compound as the rest of us were angry and stunned.

I have spent 18 months in the middle east ToOs and have lost friends and aquaintances. My wife runs family support programs for military in Colorado, and has been there for families @ 2 in the morning telling them a loved one has been killed and to help start picking up the pieces.

I have not lost a family member, and can't imagine what I would feel if I lost a son/daughter/dad/mom/brother/etc.

Last night I was stunned.....felt no joy.....was angry, and glad he was gone. I could not relate to those cheering in the stadiums or on the street, but certainly weren't angry/dismayed that they were.

Will he be a Martyr...certainly. Will there be more attacks on our soil...no question. Are there 10s of thousand of disillusioned radical muslims that would/will take his place....absolutely.

This is personal for everyone on this board and for 10s of millions around the world. Respect each persons perspective, and don't pass judgement.

I agree, the experience is personal, as are all experiences. I have read this entire thread and did not perceive anyone passing judgment. My impression is that folks here are making observations and expressing concerns in a very civil manner. I hope the discussion continues in the same manner.

[RPS]

Apparently our military has communicated to service men and women that “gloating” is not appropriate. That’s a good word to use in my opinion.

[crownjewelwl]

I find it very hard to believe he has been buried at sea.
Years and years of hunting him, they finally get him, and they get rid of the body within 24 hours? Using Muslim tradition as the excuse?
I don't buy it. Not saying they didn't kill him, but this part of the story seems strange...

had to do it at sea...otherwise, peeps would make a shrine

[rwsaunders]

How about the report that OBL's compound was in close proximity to Pakistan's military academy (Kakul)?

[michael white]

How about the report that OBL's compound was in close proximity to Pakistan's military academy (Kakul)?

that's what I've been thinking about. I mean, it might just be like ROTC or something. . . . but this will be a diplomatic story for a while to come.

[tuxbailey]

I am glad that he is gone. I am also not one of the type who celebrate on the street (for that I will wait the Redskins to win the SB, haha.) But I can't help but feel a little misty in my eyes last night as I am sure that like myself, most people in this country can recall exactly where they were when 9/11 happened, and that part of the memory cannot be erased.

Symbolically, this offers a closure for not only the family of victims, but many others.

[palincss]

I don't agree. you don't send in the Seals for tea and cookies.

Or to Mirandize them, either.

[Keith A]

<snip>

This is personal for everyone on this board and for 10s of millions around the world. Respect each persons perspective, and don't pass judgement.Great statement!

[1happygirl]

I am glad that he is gone. I am also not one of the type who celebrate on the street (for that I will wait the Redskins to win the SB, haha.)
Symbolically, this offers a closure for not only the family of victims, but many others.

:D You'll be waiting a while. :D

[tuxbailey]

:D You'll be waiting a while. :D

You bet. If I have been a Ravens fan I would have been a much happier football fan :(

[Pete Serotta]

I am going to caution anyone passing judgment on how people are processing this.

I was a 22 year old Airman/AF Firefighter in Riyadh in 1996 when The Khobar Towers was attacked. I spent 3 days in search and rescue effort pulling bodyparts of my friends and aquaintances out of the building.

I was in Kosovo in 2001 during Sept 11, when the NATO soldiers from the UAE were celebrating the attacks on the towers....and were removed under armed escort from the compound as the rest of us were angry and stunned.

I have spent 18 months in the middle east ToOs and have lost friends and aquaintances. My wife runs family support programs for the military in Colorado, and has been there for families @ 2 in the morning telling them a loved one has been killed and to help start picking up the pieces.

I have not lost a family member, and can't imagine what I would feel if I lost a son/daughter/dad/mom/brother/etc.

Last night I was stunned.....felt no joy.....was angry, and glad he was gone. I could not relate to those cheering in the stadiums or on the street, but certainly wasn't angry/dismayed that they were.

Will he be a Martyr...certainly. Will there be more attacks on our soil...no question. Are there 10s of thousand of disillusioned radical muslims that would/will take his place....absolutely.

This is personal for everyone on this board and for 10s of millions around the world. Respect each persons perspective, and don't pass judgement.


Thanks for the well done statement from the view of someone who has been in the region,

PETE and :beer: if we can ever personally meet

[Pete Serotta]

+1

Exactly what I've been thinking since last night. Regardless of how depraved a person may be, and how necessary and justified the killing, I can’t personally relate to throwing a party. Besides, in the long run I’m not sure it’s in our best interest to openly demonstrate such joy.



Thanks for posting it. PETE

[Pete Serotta]

Thanks everyone for views and opinions (and no personal attacks).


Pete

[Keith A]

As pleased as I am with this outcome, I guess it bothers me just a bit to see the celebrations. It reminds me of the scenes from Muslim countries celebrating 9/11. It seems a bit undignified.

However, I think it is awesome that they finally got him.
+1

Exactly what I've been thinking since last night. Regardless of how depraved a person may be, and how necessary and justified the killing, I can’t personally relate to throwing a party. Besides, in the long run I’m not sure it’s in our best interest to openly demonstrate such joy.I really appreciate these two comments as this is exactly the way I feel about this situation...and I was starting to wonder if I was the only one feeling this way. Thank you both for your remarks.

[dave thompson]

My son spent 3 combat tours in Iraq, largely because of Bin Ladens doings. It was kind of sweet when he called last night..."Dad, we got him!"

[firerescuefin]

My son spent 3 combat tours in Iraq, largely because of Bin Ladens doings. It was kind of sweet when he called last night..."Dad, we got him!"

:beer:'s plural.. hopefully between you and your son.

[michael white]

I just read a piece which said the first plan was to B-2 bomb the complex last month. I am SO glad the president did it this way, eye to eye, a million times better.

[SEABREEZE]

I find it very hard to believe he has been buried at sea.
Years and years of hunting him, they finally get him, and they get rid of the body within 24 hours? Using Muslim tradition as the excuse?
I don't buy it. Not saying they didn't kill him, but this part of the story seems strange...


As others has commented it has crossed there mind, a report said that the US offered the body to the Saudi's, but they refuesd.

Another report said that Obama squashed a bombing attack of the compound in March, because once he understood it would be rubble, there would be no clear proof that Usama, Osama, would be dead.

Yes,,, they could get a high security clearance make up artist, and make anyone of us look like Usama, Osama,, but I dont think they can alter DNA, and supposeably they have DNA of him.

We shall see how this all plays out, because there will be many doughters out there, who have the Missouri philosphy, Show Me...

[edmoses]

Somebody in planning has an eye on history, 66 years to the day that Hitler's death was confirmed on 1st May 1945.

This is not an event to gloat over, but it does bring some closure and the chance to move on for a number of people.

I say this as somebody in the British Military who has worked around the place and who lost friends/colleagues in Tower 1 on 9/11.

Regards,

Ed

[mister]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/05/2011522132275789.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/05/20115251555423645.html

[Ti Designs]

I've never seen the point in blaming an individual for the amount of hate there is, so I'll try adding a bit of humor...


Who gets his bike???

[rugbysecondrow]

I've never seen the point in blaming an individual for the amount of hate there is, so I'll try adding a bit of humor...


Who gets his bike???


Do you actually believe this is the case and that the sentiment is undeserved?

It seems obvious that the blame and hate is for that which HE claimed credit for.

[jpw]

I'm happy to be abused and banned for saying this, but the man was not against the American people. He was at war with the policies of the United States government, which is something quite different from the American people, most of whom have absolutely no influence over their country's foreign policies. He carried an AK47 assault rifle in battle against the soldiers of the army of the Soviet Union (no friend of the USA). He never claimed responsibility for 9/11 (and thus far I've never seen any evidence linking him to it regardless of the impression given by media). He came from a very wealthy and privileged Saudi family and could very easily have lived a comfortable and safe life, but chose to fight against imperialism in his Islamic world, from wherever it came. I would expect most Americans too would do the same if their world was being invaded and occupied by foreign powers. He was a warrior who fought for what he believed in. He lived by the word of his God, and he lived by the sword and he died by the sword. Now he is gone. Is that the end of the threat to Americans? No. The threat will end when the United States government changes its foreign policies and learns to live in greater harmony with the world beyond its territorial borders. Foreigners are not lesser people. Muslims are not creatures from a dark place. The American people need to change their government's policies to reduce the threat they may face in the future from those who might replace Osama, or the threat will never end.

[michael white]

He did claim it. You can google it in one second.

[JMerring]

Who gets his bike???

depends - campy, shimaNO or, allah-forbid, srucks? :)

jpw - while you make some factually correct assertions, i think you're being just a little bit generous to oz. i'll leave it at that.

[jpw]

He did claim it. You can google it in one second.

Please link to it.

[mister]

I'm happy to be abused and banned for saying this, but the man was not against the American people. He was at war with the policies of the United States government, which is something quite different from the American people, most of whom have absolutely no influence over their country's foreign policies. He carried an AK47 assault rifle in battle against the soldiers of the army of the Soviet Union (no friend of the USA). He never claimed responsibility for 9/11 (and thus far I've never seen any evidence linking him to it regardless of the impression given by media). He came from a very wealthy and privileged Saudi family and could very easily have lived a comfortable and safe life, but chose to fight against imperialism in his Islamic world, from wherever it came. I would expect most Americans too would do the same if their world was being invaded and occupied by foreign powers. He was a warrior who fought for what he believed in. He lived by the word of his God, and he lived by the sword and he died by the sword. Now he is gone. Is that the end of the threat to Americans? No. The threat will end when the United States government changes its foreign policies and learns to live in greater harmony with the world beyond its territorial borders. Foreigners are not lesser people. Muslims are not creatures from a dark place. The American people need to change their government's policies to reduce the threat they may face in the future from those who might replace Osama, or the threat will never end.

well said.
his obituary touches on some of the same subjects as your post.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/05/20115251555423645.html

[firerescuefin]

JPW....good luck with that (sarcasm inserted).

[michael white]

Please link to it.
In the 2004 Osama bin Laden video, bin Laden abandoned his denials without retracting past statements. In it he stated he had personally directed the nineteen hijackers.[101][113] In the 18-minute tape, played on Al-Jazeera, four days before the American presidential election, bin Laden accused U.S. President George W. Bush of negligence on the hijacking of the planes on September 11.[101]

According to the tapes, bin Laden claimed he was inspired to destroy the World Trade Center after watching the destruction of towers in Lebanon by Israel during the 1982 Lebanon War.[114]

In two other tapes aired by Al Jazeera in 2006, Osama bin Laden announces,

I am the one in charge of the nineteen brothers ... I was responsible for entrusting the nineteen brothers ... with the raids [5 minute audiotape broadcast May 23, 2006],[115]

and is seen with Ramzi bin al-Shibh, as well as two of the 9/11 hijackers, Hamza al-Ghamdi and Wail al-Shehri, as they make preparations for the attacks (videotape broadcast September 7, 2006).[116]

[1centaur]

This literally took 1 second because it comes up first after typing "bin laden claims" in Google

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html

[Charles M]

I am pretty sure death made him a martyr, rather than spontaneous celebrations...

Neither the USA, US Armed Forces or American Gov't is officially, openly celebrating. If others choose to do so, it's their prerogative.

+1...

I'm sure we all want to believe "we" are better than "they"...

Not meaning to offend, but Expecting "us" not to celebrate is another form of ignorance and racism... Wishing we didn't celebrate isn't, but "expecting" is...


I wish the entire country could have "one -up" the people that celebrate when we get hurt, but that's just not going to happen.

It's a lesson really, about thinking our society is always better or right...


As for what comes now... Do you think this will make things worse? Personally, I don't think there were any plans to kill Americans that extremists would do now that they wouldn't do before...

Maybe it makes em get sloppy and rush, but the threat doesn't grow when a mythical / untouchable man goes from figure head to bullets through the head. He's not adding to courage and confidence and that was his biggest offering in the last several years.

[1centaur]

and here's what he thought of the American people:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

[johnnymossville]

He was given the chance to surrender. I'm glad he didn't take the advice. Congrats to the Navy Seals and all those involved.

The fight goes on.

[goonster]

He did claim it.
Yes, he did.

But: anybody can claim anything. Every time someone in an Afghan army or police uniform causes ISAF casualties, the Taliban claims that it's one of their infiltrators. Doesn't make it so.

Bin Laden claimed, after initial denials, that he organized the 9/11 hijackers. More importantly though, his leadership, and connection to KSM et al has been established fairly well to the world, imho.

[torquer]

My son spent 3 combat tours in Iraq, largely because of Bin Ladens doings. It was kind of sweet when he called last night..."Dad, we got him!"
Really? I could see if it had been Afghanistan, but Iraq?
Glad to hear your son's OK after 3 tours. No regrets about OBL's death, either, though I wonder about the celebrations, too. This isn't exactly VJ day.

[rugbysecondrow]

Any fool can cherry pick his "Facts" to make a point Being intellectually honest requires you to at least address that which you know will both favor and not favor your argument. You have not done that.

This history of US/Osama relations is twisted and long, no denying that. But to say he was not against the American people when he specifically picked targets to kill the highest number of them, well that is just purposefully incorrect (a lie).

I'm happy to be abused and banned for saying this, but the man was not against the American people. He was at war with the policies of the United States government, which is something quite different from the American people, most of whom have absolutely no influence over their country's foreign policies. He carried an AK47 assault rifle in battle against the soldiers of the army of the Soviet Union (no friend of the USA). He never claimed responsibility for 9/11 (and thus far I've never seen any evidence linking him to it regardless of the impression given by media). He came from a very wealthy and privileged Saudi family and could very easily have lived a comfortable and safe life, but chose to fight against imperialism in his Islamic world, from wherever it came. I would expect most Americans too would do the same if their world was being invaded and occupied by foreign powers. He was a warrior who fought for what he believed in. He lived by the word of his God, and he lived by the sword and he died by the sword. Now he is gone. Is that the end of the threat to Americans? No. The threat will end when the United States government changes its foreign policies and learns to live in greater harmony with the world beyond its territorial borders. Foreigners are not lesser people. Muslims are not creatures from a dark place. The American people need to change their government's policies to reduce the threat they may face in the future from those who might replace Osama, or the threat will never end.

[dd74]

I think bin Laden once said in one of his tapes from the cave that he was happily surprised (sic) of the damage to the Twin Towers.

Buried at sea, now that I think of it, helps to less ensure he being a physical martyr. (No one parading his body up and down the street like what was done with Ayatollah Khomeini).

I wonder who buried him, though? Relatives?

[93legendti]

1C, you beat me to it!

Osama was against American imperialism in Islamic world? No-he railed against American presence in Saudia Arabia. Only problem is, the Saudis ASKED us to come defend them against Iraq. Same with Kuwait.


Osama believed that only the restoration of Sharia law would "set things right" in the Muslim world, and that alternatives such as —"pan-Arabism, socialism, communism, democracy"—must be opposed.[32] This belief, in conjunction with violent jihad, has sometimes been called Qutbism after being promoted by Sayyid Qutb.[33] Osama believed that Afghanistan, under the rule of Mullah Omar's Taliban, was "the only Islamic country" in the Muslim world.[34] Osama consistently dwelt on the need for violent jihad to right what he believed were injustices against Muslims perpetrated by the United States and sometimes by other non-Muslim states,[35] the need to eliminate the state of Israel, and the necessity of forcing the US to withdraw from the Middle East. He also called on Americans to "reject the immoral acts of fornication (and) homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling, and usury," in an October 2002 letter.[36]

Osama's ideology included the idea that civilians, including women and children, are legitimate targets of jihad.[37][38] Osama was antisemitic, and delivered warnings against alleged Jewish conspiracies: "These Jews are masters of usury and leaders in treachery. They will leave you nothing, either in this world or the next."[39] Shia Muslims have been listed along with "Heretics,... America and Israel," as the four principal "enemies of Islam" at ideology classes of bin Laden's Al-Qaeda organization.[40]

In keeping with Wahhabi beliefs,[41] Osama opposed music on religious grounds,[42] and his attitude towards technology was mixed. He was interested in "earth-moving machinery and genetic engineering of plants" on the one hand, but rejected "chilled water" on the other.[43]

His viewpoints and methods of achieving them had led to him being designated as a "terrorist" by scholars,[44][45] journalists from The New York Times,[46][47] the BBC,[48] and Qatari news station Al Jazeera,[49] analysts such as Peter Bergen,[50] Michael Scheuer,[51] Marc Sageman,[52] and Bruce Hoffman[53][54] and he was indicted on terrorism charges by law enforcement agencies in Madrid, New York City, and Tripoli.[55]

Salafist Muslims have criticized bin Laden for adherence to Qutbism, takfir and Khaarijite deviance. Critics are said to include Muhammad Ibn Haadee al-Madkhalee, Abd-al-Aziz ibn Abd-Allah ibn Baaz, Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan and Muqbil bin Haadi al-Waadi'ee.[citation needed]

Osama also had a beef with the Saudis:

Bin Laden said these grievances about Saudi Arabia:

“ 1.The intimidation and harassment suffered by the leaders of the society, the scholars, heads of tribes, merchants, academic teachers and other eminent individuals;
2.The situation of the law within the country and the arbitrary declaration of what is Halal and Haram (lawful and unlawful) regardless of the Shari'ah as instituted by Allah;
3.The state of the press and the media which became a tool of truth-hiding and misinformation; the media carried out the plan of the enemy of idolising cult of certain personalities and spreading scandals among the believers to repel the people away from their religion, as Allah, the Exalted said: {surely- as for- those who love that scandal should circulate between the believers, they shall have a grievous chastisement in this world and in the here after} (An-Noor, 24:19).
4. Abuse and confiscation of human rights;
5.The financial and the economical situation of the country and the frightening future in the view of the enormous amount of debts and interest owed by the government; this is at the time when the wealth of the Ummah being wasted to satisfy personal desires of certain individuals!! while imposing more custom duties and taxes on the nation. (the prophet said about the woman who committed adultery: "She repented in such a way sufficient to bring forgiveness to a custom collector!!").
6.The miserable situation of the social services and infra-structure especially the water service and supply, the basic requirement of life.,
7.The state of the ill-trained and ill-prepared army and the impotence of its commander in chief despite the incredible amount of money that has been spent on the army. The gulf war clearly exposed the situation.,
8. Shari'a law was suspended and man made law was used instead.,
9.And as far as the foreign policy is concerned the report exposed not only how this policy has disregarded the Islamic issues and ignored the Muslims, but also how help and support were provided to the enemy against the Muslims; the cases of Gaza-Ariha and the communist in the south of Yemen are still fresh in the memory, and more can be said.[10][11]
”

Bin Laden wanted to overthrow the Saudi monarchy (and now other Middle East governments)[12] and establish an "Islamic Republic" according to Shari'a law (Islamic Holy Law), to "unite all Muslims and to establish a government which follows the rule of the Caliphs."[13]

Of course, Al Qaeda also attacked Spain and Britain...because of American (or those countries') imperialism? No.

[firerescuefin]

Couple of books that may be of interest. All great reads

http://www.amazon.com/See-No-Evil-Soldier-Terrorism/dp/140004684X

http://www.amazon.com/Not-Good-Day-Die-Operation/dp/0425207870/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358075&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Commandos-Douglas-C-Waller/dp/0440220467/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358110&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Chaos-Secret-History-Special/dp/1586483528/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358150&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Warrior-Elite-Forging-SEAL-Class/dp/1400046955/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358188&sr=1-1


The only one I would put a caveat on is Marcinko's book (founder of Seal Team 6)...it's a little over the top.

http://www.amazon.com/Rogue-Warrior-Mass-Market-Paperback/dp/B003Q87SSU/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358240&sr=1-4

[93legendti]

Couple of books that may be of interest. All great reads

http://www.amazon.com/See-No-Evil-Soldier-Terrorism/dp/140004684X

http://www.amazon.com/Not-Good-Day-Die-Operation/dp/0425207870/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358075&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Commandos-Douglas-C-Waller/dp/0440220467/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358110&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Chaos-Secret-History-Special/dp/1586483528/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358150&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Warrior-Elite-Forging-SEAL-Class/dp/1400046955/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358188&sr=1-1


The only one I would put a caveat on is Marcinko's book (founder of Seal Team 6)...it's a little over the top.

http://www.amazon.com/Rogue-Warrior-Mass-Market-Paperback/dp/B003Q87SSU/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304358240&sr=1-4
Thanks for the links...I'm going to pick some of those up. My kids and I get a kick out of the Military Channel's show's about making the "cut" for these elite units.

[Nooch]

1C, you beat me to it!

OSama was against American imperialism in Islamic world? No-he railed against American presence in Saudia Arabia. Only problem is, the Saudis ASKED us to come defend them against Iraq. Same with Kuwait.




Fixed that for you

[rugbysecondrow]

Fixed that for you


HA, good one. :)

[jpw]

Fixed that for you

That would be the democratically elected Saudi government representing the will of the people of Saudi Arabia? No.

That would be the same government that sends troops to support the government of Bahrain to crush pro democracy demonstrations? Yes.

That would be the same Bahrain that is base to the United States 5th fleet? Yes.

A never ending spiral of contradictions.

[Bob Ross]

To be clear, it's fine that the order was to kill. It's great that the Seals did it.

The enemy doesn't need to know and shouldn't know what the order was and which of our guys did it.


^^^This. Or, as Vito Corleone so succinctly said in The Godfather, "Never let them know what you're thinking."

[firerescuefin]

That would be the democratically elected Saudi government representing the will of the people of Saudi Arabia? No.

That would be the same government that sends troops to support the government of Bahrain to crush pro democracy demonstrations? Yes.

That would be the same Bahrain that is base to the United States 5th fleet? Yes.

A never ending spiral of contradictions.


I don't like the company/friends we keep, and there isn't a country in the world that operates out of altruism with regard to allies and conflicts they enter. This world is "a never ending spiral of contradictions" ....are you just learning that now.

That's a long way from painting OBL as some sort of religious hero/victim.

[michael white]

I don't like the company/friends we keep, and there isn't a country in the world that operates out of altruism with regard to allies and conflicts they enter. This world is a never ending spiral of contradictions....are you just learning that now.

That's a long way from painting OBL as some sort of religious hero/victim.


agreed, this is something most Americans should be able to agree on, just as Bush and Obama did.
And I still think it's good to be open about it. For instance, in 2008 you say, "We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority," Then you freaking do it.

And if the Seals are responsible, you let them take credit if they want credit.

[michael white]

actually, here's what the SEALS wikipage says about OBL:


Death of Osama bin Laden

Main article: Death of Osama bin Laden

In the early morning of May 1, 2011 local time, a team of 40 CIA-led Navy SEALs, 24 on the ground, successfully completed an operation to kill Osama Bin Laden in Abbottabad, Pakistan a city about 35 miles (56 km) from Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan.[12] The SEALs were part of the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, previously called "Team 6".[13] President Barack Obama later confirmed the death of Bin Laden, but did not directly mention the involvement of Navy SEALs, saying only that a "small team" of Americans undertook the operation to bring down Bin Laden.[12]

[93legendti]

Fixed that for you
Oops!!
Thanks for pointing that out. I just fixed it myself.

[93legendti]

I don't like the company/friends we keep, and there isn't a country in the world that operates out of altruism with regard to allies and conflicts they enter. This world is a never ending spiral of contradictions....are you just learning that now.

That's a long way from painting OBL as some sort of religious hero/victim.
That and an invitation from an ally is NOT imperialism.
Osama was upset at us all because we weren't Sharia compliant. He said it over and over again.

[EvanOT]

Im glad some Americans are able to find some peace...but I think its classless to celebrate the death of a human in such a negative manner.

[goonster]

Obama was upset at us all because we weren't Sharia compliant. He said it over and over again.
Dude . . . :rolleyes:

[rugbysecondrow]

Dude . . . :rolleyes:


Awesome part deux

[victoryfactory]

From a strictly operational POV I hope the US authorities had this place
under surveillance long enough to study who came and went and how
they operated so they can catch more of these people. (I bet they did)

Police will watch a big time criminal's operation for as long as possible
to make those connections before acting, allowing them to cast a wider net.

And I agree, dancing in the streets to celebrate this kind of thing is stupid.
How about some dignity?

VF

[michael white]

Originally Posted by 93legendti
Obama was upset at us all because we weren't vertically compliant. He said it over and over again.
better? or not . . .

[firerescuefin]

From a strictly operational POV I hope the US authorities had this place
under surveillance long enough to study who came and went and how
they operated so they can catch more of these people. (I bet they did)

Police will watch a big time criminal's operation for as long as possible
to make those connections before acting, allowing them to cast a wider net.

And I agree, dancing in the streets to celebrate this kind of thing is stupid.
How about some dignity?

VF

They had him under surveillance long enough to build an exact replica of the compound....exact. I got to see this done for another operation and watch them train for it. Those guys define attention to detail.

[93legendti]

Dude . . . :rolleyes:
oops.... :D

[rugbysecondrow]

Can you be a little more specific?

Read his letter and get back to me. He wasn't at war with the Saudi's because they were occupying Muslim lands and supporting Israel. :D

Your Freudian slip with the Osama and Obama was made again...hence the "Dude".

[firerescuefin]

Originally Posted by 93legendti
Obama was upset at us all because we weren't vertically compliant. He said it over and over again.
better? or not . . .

Word on the street was that this all started when the Saudi national cycling team was looking to ditch their steel Merckxs and ride Carbon Looks in the late 80's and OBL found the larger framed carbon bikes unrideable, and was banished from the team.....coincidence....probably not ;)

[paulh]

Hey at least his second Freudian slip wasn't as bad or as public as a Faux News Affiliate anchor who really screwed the pooch by saying,"President Obama is in fact dead".

[EvanOT]

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/05/02/bin_laden/index.html

[Joachim]

I think it is sad the we as a human race celebrate the destruction of each other (doesn't matter which side we are on). So much for higher order cognitive processes, why do we have a prefrontal cortex?? :rolleyes: At least in the animal kingdom they do it for food (most of the time).

[mister]

I think it is sad the we as a human race celebrate the destruction of each other (doesn't matter which side we are on). So much for higher order cognitive processes, why do we have a prefrontal cortex?? :rolleyes: At least in the animal kingdom they do it for food (most of the time).

yeah pretty much.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/02-2

[93legendti]

:crap: Your Freudian slip with the Osama and Obama was made again...hence the "Dude".
Thanks...my iphone spell checker keeps changing Osama to Obama...I'm on the pc now...

[93legendti]

yeah pretty much.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/02-2
Interesting.....

And the killing of bin Laden, who has absolutely no operational role in al-Qaida – that’s clear – he’s kind of a spiritual mentor, a kind of guide … he functions in many of the ways that Hitler functioned for the Nazi Party. We were just talking with Warren about Kershaw’s great biography of Hitler, which I read a few months ago, where you hold up a particular ideological ideal and strive for it. That was bin Laden’s role. But all actual acts of terror, which he may have signed off on, he no way planned.

[rwsaunders]

I just read a piece which said the first plan was to B-2 bomb the complex last month. I am SO glad the president did it this way, eye to eye, a million times better.

There's not much to identify when you drop a couple of 2,000 lb GBU's on a residential structure.

[avalonracing]

:crap:
Thanks...my iphone spell checker keeps changing Osama to Obama...I'm on the pc now...

You must have downloaded the Fox News app to your iPhone.

[flydhest]

:crap:
Thanks...my iphone spell checker keeps changing Osama to Obama...I'm on the pc now...
Pun intended?

"on the pc"

:)

[firerescuefin]

You must have downloaded the Fox News app to your iPhone.

Interesting....on my CNN app it changes Obama to Messiah. ;)

[SamIAm]

Interesting....on my CNN app it changes Obama to Messiah. ;)

I thought that was the MSNBC app :)

[phcollard]

I just read a piece which said the first plan was to B-2 bomb the complex last month. I am SO glad the president did it this way, eye to eye, a million times better.

I don't believe it's a question of being eye to eye but more about preserving innocent lifes. OBL was living in a quiet residential suburb. Many families, many children. By the way the people there were totally stunned to learn that OBL was their neighbor!

I keep asking myself why they did not capture him alive instead...

[phcollard]

yeah pretty much.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/02-2

Excellent writing. Thanks a lot for the link.

[JMerring]

I keep asking myself why they did not capture him alive instead...

all the crap with gitmo and nyc and ksm and due process and evidentiary concerns and torture and military tribunals and whatnot. justice, such as it is, was delivered much more swiftly this way.

[palincss]

Besides which, he resisted.

[michael white]

all the crap with gitmo and nyc and ksm and due process and evidentiary concerns and torture and military tribunals and whatnot. justice, such as it is, was delivered much more swiftly this way.


duh, they asked him to surrender. He shot at a SEAL team and got what everyone wanted. Next question.

ps: Jmerring, this is agreeing with you!!!!!!

[JMerring]

delete - sorry to mw for being snippy.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I don't believe it's a question of being eye to eye but more about preserving innocent lifes. OBL was living in a quiet residential suburb. Many families, many children. By the way the people there were totally stunned to learn that OBL was their neighbor!

I keep asking myself why they did not capture him alive instead...

They then have to get him out of there alive. IF they get him out alive they then have to decide what to do with him and how to do it. The rest of the world has time to react and things get ugly.

I think it is far scarier to potential further terrorists to have this guy just disappear. He wasn't tried. He wasn't captured. He wasn't paraded around. He just disappeared--violently--and then we announce we did it.

The intimation to potential successors is obvious. Do it and we will make YOU disappear too. It may take us 10 years, but we WILL get you.

Very intimidating. Very effective. Shows that we can be just as cold and efficient if we need to as they can. We need to show them that because they depend on the assumption that we are shallow, soft and weak. In many cases, unfortunately, they are right.

BBD

[phcollard]

duh, they asked him to surrender. He shot at a SEAL team and got what everyone wanted. Next question.

ps: Jmerring, this is agreeing with you!!!!!!

I did not know he was asked to surrender. Do you have a full report of the operation?

From what I read he was the last man standing in the attack so while he probably resisted I can surely see a whole team of highly trained soldiers capture him alive without casualty on the american side. So to me the question remains open. We'll probably learn more in the next hours/days.

Everone wanted his death you mean?

[phcollard]

Very intimidating. Very effective. Shows that we can be just as cold and efficient if we need to as they can. We need to show them that because they depend on the assumption that we are shallow, soft and weak. In many cases, unfortunately, they are right.

Interesting view Dave, thanks a lot. That might answer my question :)

I don't think that anywhere in the world the US is perceived as a shallow, soft and weak nation! (and I am not American).

But I am worried that this might just bring more hate, more fear, more disasters. That was probably a very tough decision for your President but he's intelligent and a man of peace so he probably did the good thing.

[oldpotatoe]

I did not know he was asked to surrender. Do you have a full report of the operation?

From what I read he was the last man standing in the attack so while he probably resisted I can surely see a whole team of highly trained soldiers capture him alive without casualty on the american side. So to me the question remains open. We'll probably learn more in the next hours/days.

Everone wanted his death you mean?

The question does not 'remain open'. What question, should they have tried to baby him? There is no question, none, zero. I lost friends in the Pentagon...He resisted, he got 2 in the face, no regrets, no tears shed by me. He didn't shed any tears for the people in DC or on the Cole. Fu_k him, glad he's dead.

Rant off-

-Retired USN Naval Officer

[gasman]

Why the heck would you plan a whole operation to bring him out alive as your only option ? It's a heck of a lot harder and then what do you do with him ? I am not a violent person but these were pros who did the job they were asked to do. Get OBL.
We will never know what happened other than they killed him and took the body out. War and combant is ugly, messy and things happen really quickly. I agree with BBD, it was the most effective thing that could have happened.

[Ray]

From the reporting today (from Brennan I think), the team had a bring him out alive option in the playbook. When they arrived they were met with hostile fire from, among others, Osama himself. At which point that option was off the table.

-Ray

[oldpotatoe]

From the reporting today (from Brennan I think), the team had a bring him out alive option in the playbook. When they arrived they were met with hostile fire from, among others, Osama himself. At which point that option was off the table.

-Ray

Go Navy!!

[gdw]

"From what I read he was the last man standing in the attack so while he probably resisted I can surely see a whole team of highly trained soldiers capture him alive without casualty on the american side."

That's a pretty naive statement. This wasn't a police raid. The SEALs met force with force and Osama got what he deserved.

[michael white]

I did not know he was asked to surrender. Do you have a full report of the operation?

From what I read he was the last man standing in the attack so while he probably resisted I can surely see a whole team of highly trained soldiers capture him alive without casualty on the american side. So to me the question remains open. We'll probably learn more in the next hours/days.

Everone wanted his death you mean?


there are many great articles coming out about this, and frankly we will not hear the last of this action for years. But here's a couple of articles mentioning the "surrender" option that OBL apparently had. http://4gwar.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/bin-laden-the-raid/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/02/bin-laden-killed-cia-led-seals-team-death-hailed-blow-al-qaeda/

Regardless of which side of the political fence you are on, and no offense to the pacifists, but this is one of the best moments for our military in many, many decades.

[phcollard]

Thanks a lot for your opinions folks. Just to avoid being misunderstood I want to make clear that I am not anti-army, anti-US or anything, and 9/11 is a day that I will remember as one of the saddest in my life. I believe today is a day that many American fellows will remember with pride as a giant success in the anti-terrorist war. That must also be a huge relief for the families of victims. Justice is done. Finally. And I'm not a naive pacifist who wanted OBL to be babied neither but thanks for mentioning! :rolleyes:

I had what I think was a legitimate question about the options that the commando had. I just read more news and learned that they indeed had the option to capture him alive but were finally given the order to shoot him down. That's probably for the best. A trial would surely have brought more chaos, more bad than good.

I'm withdrawing from the discussion now. I fear than as English is not my native language I might be unable to communicate in such an intricate debate.

Go Navy indeed. You guys can be proud! Cheers to you all :beer:

[Pete Serotta]

It is ok to express your views and beliefs. There are more and more snips on information coming out and probably will continue TO become known.

my personal opinion is that there was no way to extract him alive but I also believe that it was self defense on the SEALs' part. That is just me.


I could say more of my opinion, but it would not change the fact that he is dead and folks that have lost their loved ones and fellow comrades will feel better.

I do not know of a single published contribution he made to anyone over the past decade. :o


PETE




Thanks a lot for your opinions folks. Just to avoid being misunderstood I want to make clear that I am not anti-army, anti-US or anything, and 9/11 is a day that I will remember as one of the saddest in my life. I believe today is a day that many American fellows will remember with pride as a giant success in the anti-terrorist war. That must also be a huge relief for the families of victims. Justice is done. Finally. And I'm not a naive pacifist who wanted OBL to be babied neither but thanks for mentioning! :rolleyes:

I had what I think was a legitimate question about the options that the commando had. I just read more news and learned that they indeed had the option to capture him alive but were finally given the order to shoot him down. That's probably for the best. A trial would surely have brought more chaos, more bad than good.

I'm withdrawing from the discussion now. I fear than as English is not my native language I might be unable to communicate in such an intricate debate.

Go Navy indeed. You guys can be proud! Cheers to you all :beer:

[ergott]

Thanks a lot for your opinions folks. Just to avoid being misunderstood I want to make clear that I am not anti-army, anti-US or anything, and 9/11 is a day that I will remember as one of the saddest in my life. I believe today is a day that many American fellows will remember with pride as a giant success in the anti-terrorist war. That must also be a huge relief for the families of victims. Justice is done. Finally. And I'm not a naive pacifist who wanted OBL to be babied neither but thanks for mentioning! :rolleyes:

I had what I think was a legitimate question about the options that the commando had. I just read more news and learned that they indeed had the option to capture him alive but were finally given the order to shoot him down. That's probably for the best. A trial would surely have brought more chaos, more bad than good.

I'm withdrawing from the discussion now. I fear than as English is not my native language I might be unable to communicate in such an intricate debate.

Go Navy indeed. You guys can be proud! Cheers to you all :beer:

If it helps I think waiting a few months until all the real facts are sorted out will help you with your questions. People are in such a rush to present news that all sorts of stories pop up. I think your question is of a finer point than is realistically possible to answer right now.

Cheers,

[ergott]

I could say more of my opinion, but it would not change the fact that he is dead and folks that have lost their loved ones and fellow comrades will feel better.

PETE

This being such an emotional topic I am with you. There's so much more I feel than I'm prepared to put in writing for all to see forever.

[Dekonick]

+1...screw the politics, a man who helped kill Americans and a symbol of our wealth and power finally got his. Will it make a difference? Who knows...probably not...but I'm glad they got him.

It will make a difference... as long as we do not stop hunting the remaining nest of rats... and continue to do so. There can be no quarter for terrorists... politics should not matter.

[1happygirl]

Since I am still sick, and have nothing more to think about then how my work is stacking up at work......Aren't they planning other attacks anyway at the time he was killed so...

Shouldn't we release the photos, or produce the body? Didn't the burial happen fast? I mean there are some peeps still think Hitler is/was alive in Argentina.

Half the world is uneducated, the other half uniformed, what's DNA? Half the world won't believe it unless they see the pictures/body. As to the idea that we just 'assassinated' him, didn't he turn down surrender? So the idea that the body would be grotesque with the bullet in the head, is his doing right? Can't that be explained? Supposedly there are more tapes of his that they got that he was planning to air. After the fact, won't a lot of peeps still think he's making them?


I'm glad if only for the fact alone the OSBL yelled fire in a crowded theatre and incited so much violence that he's gone. The idea that he was just slightly this side of innocent is not something I ascribe to.

Won't this vindicate a lot of peeps that we got him through watching his couriers for years and years?

hahaha:
It just occurred to me... Should I have written "Spoiler Alert" when I started this thread? I hope that I didn't ruin last night's Presidential announcement for anyone.

[avalonracing]

It just occurred to me... Should I have written "Spoiler Alert" when I started this thread? I hope that I didn't ruin last night's Presidential announcement for anyone.

[Louis]

I think you guys should hold out on believing anything until they produce the long-form death certificate. And even that could be faked.

[Fixed]

24 special ops guys shoot him not much left to show
bon voyage mass murderer
cheers

[Dekonick]

Thanks for the links...I'm going to pick some of those up. My kids and I get a kick out of the Military Channel's show's about making the "cut" for these elite units.

One of my good friends and fraternity brother from college just retired from the SEAL's - after serving 20 years. He was recycled 2 times before he completed BUDS... all I can say is he REALLY wanted to be a SEAL, and he is one tough son of a bitch... but doesn't look it, act it, or talk about it. I have the utmost respect for anyone who completes training and becomes a member of our uniformed services. I raise that respect a million fold for those who choose to attempt SF training... and even more so those who complete it. Thank GOD for our men and women in uniform. Y'all make me proud every day!

Even better to hear a story of their actions... more often the SF missions will never be made public... better that way too.

:beer:

[93legendti]

http://www.startribune.com/nation/121089124.html

WASHINGTON - Officials say CIA interrogators in secret overseas prisons developed the first strands of information that ultimately led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Current and former U.S. officials say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden's most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed's successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania.

The news is sure to reignite debate over whether the now-closed interrogation and detention program was successful. Former president George W. Bush authorized the CIA to use the harshest interrogation tactics in U.S. history. President Barack Obama closed the prison system.

[93legendti]

One of my good friends and fraternity brother from college just retired from the SEAL's - after serving 20 years. He was recycled 2 times before he completed BUDS... all I can say is he REALLY wanted to be a SEAL, and he is one tough son of a bitch... but doesn't look it, act it, or talk about it. I have the utmost respect for anyone who completes training and becomes a member of our uniformed services. I raise that respect a million fold for those who choose to attempt SF training... and even more so those who complete it. Thank GOD for our men and women in uniform. Y'all make me proud every day!

Even better to hear a story of their actions... more often the SF missions will never be made public... better that way too.

:beer:
+1!

[Bruce K]

Depending on which weapon he was actually shot with there might not be a lot left of his head to see.

Typical sniper rifles could use anywhere from a .357 magnum, to a .762 full metal jacket, to a .50 caliber round. Most of these leave a pretty big hole going in and obliterate everything on the way out.

Conpiracy folks will question the speed of the burial but I believe eventually photos, video, etc. will come out.

All I know is that freinds of ours who died that day in September in a field in PA are probably resting a little easier tonight.

BK

[BumbleBeeDave]

It is now officially starting to roll downhill . . .

Bruce, do you want to lock it or shall I? . . .

BBD

http://www.startribune.com/nation/121089124.html

WASHINGTON - Officials say CIA interrogators in secret overseas prisons developed the first strands of information that ultimately led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Current and former U.S. officials say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden's most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed's successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania.

The news is sure to reignite debate over whether the now-closed interrogation and detention program was successful. Former president George W. Bush authorized the CIA to use the harshest interrogation tactics in U.S. history. President Barack Obama closed the prison system.

[1happygirl]

Thanks everyone for the understanding of what happened. I thought it was one shot.

I just see so much unpleasant stuff on tv and didn't they release the photos of the Hussein brothers? I don't care if they do release photographic proof. I'm happy he's gone.

[drewski]

Excellent writing. Thanks a lot for the link.

I was thinking along the same lines as this article, when Bush said we would do whatever it took to get the evil doers. No matter how long it takes. I was thinking he did not have to go too very far to get them.

[sjbraun]

Would those be the "enhanced interrogation techniques" largely denounced by the US military?
Good golly, man. The President of the United States just made a really gutsy call that resulted in a tremendous success and you still have to find a way to criticize him.

Could you, just for a minute, give Obama some credit?

[BumbleBeeDave]

I think the fun celebration is over. We bent the rules seriously in deference to a special event. Let's all move along and talk about bikes.

BBD