Anyone running 25s on their 23 rims?

[jwb96]

I think my next wheelset will be built around the Velocity A23 rims (for price, over the HED C2). The wide rim = more volume concept makes sense to me - it's why I ride 25s now instead of 23s.

Has anyone tried running 25s on the new wider rims? Anyone willing to hazard a guess as to what it might accomplish? Why it might be a stupid idea?

Thanks,
Jim

[tele]

I think my next wheelset will be built around the Velocity A23 rims (for price, over the HED C2). The wide rim = more volume concept makes sense to me - it's why I ride 25s now instead of 23s.

Has anyone tried running 25s on the new wider rims? Anyone willing to hazard a guess as to what it might accomplish? Why it might be a stupid idea?

Thanks,
Jim
I have some gp4000 25's on my A23 rims. I really like the feel and the ride is nice and cushy.
Stupid, maybe/maybe not, I will even try to roll with 28s and 32s this summer. Stupid is as stupid does--whatever that means. Just do it.

[veloduffer]

I have some 25s on mine to counter the rotten roads this spring. I also use 28s on my all weather bike. No issues and they ride fine.

[Dave Wages]

There's nothing stupid about running 25's, 28, or 32's on a set of 23mm rims. I've been riding 28's on my HED rims for the last year or so, and the benefits are the same. I can ride any given tire at a slightly lower pressure on the wider rims with no loss in rim protection, but a big increase in comfort!

Cheers,
Dave

[jlwdm]

Always a lot of riders using bigger tires on the wider rims, but for pure road riding HED recommends 22-24mm tires.

Jeff

[Black Dog]

It is wonderful. Like riding on a greased pillow!

[RPS]

The wide rim = more volume concept makes sense to me - it's why I ride 25s now instead of 23s.


Jim, what exactly is the "more volume concept"? Is it just a name they give the use of fat tires or does it imply that tire volume affects ride?

I'm not questioning your choice at all, just curious about the origin of this "more volume" term that I've now seen a few times.

[RPS]

It is wonderful. Like riding on a greased pillow!
I’m ashamed of the first thing that came to my mind when I read this.

[John M]

More volume is exactly that---More air. A wider, larger volume tire can be run a lower psi and provides a smoother, more cushy ride. This doesn't make much difference on really smooth roads, but on rough roads or gravel, it makes a big difference. In experience, the slightly larger tires also gives a more more secure grip on rough or wet surfaces. Perhaps that is due to a larger contact patch or maybe the lower pressure allows more conforming to the surface.

[RPS]

More volume is exactly that---More air. A wider, larger volume tire can be run a lower psi and provides a smoother, more cushy ride.
Although related that’s not really what I meant to ask. If the concept is based on greater tire “volume” I want to learn about its technical basis.

Tire volume, low pressure, and tire width may be related but I wouldn’t treat them as equals – not in a technical sense. And as it relates even closer to this thread, the effect of a wider rim is yet another variable.

So, is there such a thing as a greater tire “volume” concept or is it just a common use of language to describe fat tires? Just trying to stay informed.

[flydhest]

RPS, are you asking: If I take a 23 tire an mount it on two different rims--open pros and A23--will the volume of air in the tire be different?

Is that the question? I don't have an answer, but it seemed like you had an interesting question that might have got lost.

Or is it "does volume per se matter differently than tire width?"

[Pyramor]

I am running 28s on my A23s. Much smoother than the Mavic rims I was running the tires on previously.

[572cv]

I run pro-race 25s on the wide Hed Ardennes. It is a forgiving ride over the rough roads here in Vermont this time of year. IMHO a successful combination.

[swt]

PR 25's on HED Belgiums. This time of year I usually ride pave tubulars. I can't say I can make a direct comparison because I don't think I understand the pressures on the PR 25's yet. I wouldn't say the ride is tubular-like, but they are pretty forgiving. I don't think I'd race a crit on them, but they're nice for this time of year. I'm debating whether to switch them out when the weather finally gets good.

[dnades]

PR2's on my ardennes and on my A23's. Great ride. I run them at around 95lbs. I don't miss those narrow tires and narrow rims of old. I've got two more wheelsets to build with some a23s.

[Gummee]

Just built a pair of wheels with A23s. Haven't had a chance to ride em yet tho. I have 23c tires mounted on em now. Wanna try that combo before I try the 25c-s

I DO run 25c Specialized tires on 2 sets of wheels. Nice ride. Smoother than the 23s. Not too much heavier.

HTH

M

[RPS]

RPS, are you asking: If I take a 23 tire an mount it on two different rims--open pros and A23--will the volume of air in the tire be different?

Is that the question? I don't have an answer, but it seemed like you had an interesting question that might have got lost.

Or is it "does volume per se matter differently than tire width?"
I already know that everything else being equal (or similar) that a wider rim will increase air volume. I also know that everything else being equal lower air pressure yields a softer ride. I’m not questioning that either.

My question was more about volume “per se”. Normally (but not always) volume goes up with fatter tires. In the few cases when they don’t, what do you focus on? Volume or width?

I shouldn’t have brought up the question because it’s probably well outside the scope of this thread.

[flydhest]

I already know that everything else being equal (or similar) that a wider rim will increase air volume. I also know that everything else being equal lower air pressure yields a softer ride. I’m not questioning that either.

My question was more about volume “per se”. Normally (but not always) volume goes up with fatter tires. In the few cases when they don’t, what do you focus on? Volume or width?

I shouldn’t have brought up the question because it’s probably well outside the scope of this thread.

I think it is an interesting question, so I am glad you brought it up. On the first part, though, is it obvious that a wider rim means more volume? The same tire has to get spread wider, so its profile should be shorter. I don't know what the relationship is, though. I could imagine under certain circumstances, though that the volume is unchanged. If these were tubulars we are talking about, I am pretty sure it would be unchanged, as the volume is determined entirely by the circumference of the cross section of the tire.

For the second question, I also agree that it is an interesting question. My intuition is that there is a difference but that they are so closely related that it would be hard to discern a difference statistically, even if things could get measured well.

Again, though, I'm just speculating.

[RPS]

The same tire has to get spread wider, so its profile should be shorter. I don't know what the relationship is, though. I could imagine under certain circumstances, though that the volume is unchanged.
I have a different view of this, although nothing to back it up with.

For practical applications (i.e. -- without someone going to a stupid extreme simply to make a point) I don't agree that the profile gets significantly shorter if at all.

I view the typical inflated bike tire shaped like a light bulb, and don't expect that moving the beads further apart will reduce the rolling diameter of the tire. Hence I'd expect air volume to always go up for "typical" and normal applications.

[flydhest]

But if the widening of the rim doesn't result in an appreciable change in one dimension (profile) why should it have an appreciable affect on volume? I guess you could argue that the relationship b/w width of tim and profile is close to linear but (and I haven't written this down to check myself) w/r/t volume is cubic Is that the intuition?

Again, these sorts of questions are the type I find interesting, because I am a nerd. :)

[thegunner]

But if the widening of the rim doesn't result in an appreciable change in one dimension (profile) why should it have an appreciable affect on volume? I guess you could argue that the relationship b/w width of tim and profile is close to linear but (and I haven't written this down to check myself) w/r/t volume is cubic Is that the intuition?

Again, these sorts of questions are the type I find interesting, because I am a nerd. :)

i think the flaw in logic is saying that the widening of the rim doesn't change one dimension appreciably. the wider rims have a tire profile closer to that of a normal circle rather than one pinched on one end. this is evident even from visual inspection of the tire on the rim - logically it follows that a circle will have greater internal area than a distorted peanut/lightbulb shape => greater volume.

[RPS]

But if the widening of the rim doesn't result in an appreciable change in one dimension (profile) why should it have an appreciable affect on volume?
Maybe the problem is that we are talking in two different languages. ;)

What do you consider the "profile"? Your above statement suggests profile means width to you, but I take profile to mean height -- like low-profile car tires are low and high-profile tires are taller, both for a given width.

Just to be sure, which way are you using the word profile?

[thegunner]

Maybe the problem is that we are talking in two different languages. ;)

What do you consider the "profile"? Your above statement suggests profile means width to you, but I take profile to mean height -- like low-profile car tires are low and high-profile tires are taller, both for a given width.

Just to be sure, which way are you using the word profile?

but you're talking about the same exact tire! maybe i'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but it seems to me that you're suggesting the height is going to be affected without width being affected at all? ;) lower height = increase in maximum width.

[RPS]

but you're talking about the same exact tire! maybe i'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but it seems to me that you're suggesting the height is going to be affected without width being affected at all? ;) lower height = increase in maximum width.
I'm not saying anything at all. I'm simply asking him a question about how he is using the word profile so we can communicate without confusion.

By the way, if you read what I stated in a previous post, you'll see I already said I think mounting a bike tire on a wider rim will make the width slightly wider but it won't affect the tire's diameter significantly (i.e. -- it won't affect what I call profile).

[KeithS]

I have about 60 miles on my new Hed Ardennes CL, its a C2, 23mm. Much smoother than their replacement. I've had the wider is better pitch a few times including once from Steve Hed while we were waiting for our kids to get done with their respective practices, my son swimming, his daughter bball. I was going to buy them anyway. All I know is one of my buddies on my Thursday night ride asked me if I had 32mm tires. Nope 25's, at 100psi, no intention to go to 23's either, I may try 90psi. Corners as if it's glued to the road, way different look too.

I remember when I saw a commercial on TV, did you know that the first blade pulls it out and the second one cuts it off before it gets a chance to snap back?

I bought that too.

All I know is it's like riding a different bike, in a really good way.

[flydhest]

Maybe the problem is that we are talking in two different languages. ;)

What do you consider the "profile"? Your above statement suggests profile means width to you, but I take profile to mean height -- like low-profile car tires are low and high-profile tires are taller, both for a given width.

Just to be sure, which way are you using the word profile?
You are right. I was being sloppy. I meant height. Same tire, but wider rim, should mean less height. I took your point to mean that that change would likely be immaterial. A view that I have no data to counter.

[khjr]

You are right. I was being sloppy. I meant height. Same tire, but wider rim, should mean less height. I took your point to mean that that change would likely be immaterial. A view that I have no data to counter.

Ya'know...I've been thinking the same thing, as I'll be building up an A23 front / Synergy rear for my new fendered Soma Smoothie ES, and was hoping to buy some fender clearance for 28Cs in the IRD Mosaic 57 fork. I thought that the wider rim would HAVE to yield a lower profile tire too. Folks who have the wide rims, however, swear that any profile/height difference is negligible...Dave T was even nice enough to measure his for me.

[jwb96]

PR2's on my ardennes and on my A23's. Great ride. I run them at around 95lbs. I don't miss those narrow tires and narrow rims of old. I've got two more wheelsets to build with some a23s.
Want to make it 3 more to build?

[dnades]

Want to make it 3 more to build?

I wish I had the time. I've been staring at my box of rims for the past couple of weeks........work and family stuff has been crazy this spring. Ergott will build you set though as well as Jeremy at Alchemy.