First time marathon advice?

[pitcrew]

Running a marathon is one of the things I've had on my "to-do" list for a couple of years. I do a bit of recreational running now, but not too much. I've been thinking about running a marathon in November of this year. Looking around at some marathon training programs they seem to be of the 18-20 week schedule.

Any marathon runners out there? Any advice for a newbie?

[BobbyJones]

I treat each marathon as my first one as I never learn my lesson.

a) Use one of Higdon's plans for something to follow.

b) Most plans won't have you running more than 18 -20 miles as your longest run. Unfortunately, that's about the time / distance where the magic happens. By magic I mean that's where your day starts going downhill fast. Hitting The Wall is a very real thing. I've become a big fan of training to "cover the distance", meaning if the race is 26.2, learn what 22-24 feels like. And that's at intended race pace with race nutrition, etc.

c) Learn to run your own race. No matter how excited you are or how good you feel, run slower than what you feel capable of. If you still feel good at 22, THEN go for it.

d) Although there are 18-20 week schedules out there, why not give yourself a year instead? If you want to just finish a marathon, you can probably walk out tomorrow and do it. However, if you want to perform well, enjoy the experience and significantly reduce the risk of injury while training- give yourself more time to prepare.

e) HAVE FUN and BE SAFE. You're not gonna win, so keep it in all in perspective.

Keep us posted on what race you choose!

[mgm777]

+1

Congratulations on taking on the challenge of 26.2. I have ran six marathons and have been a runner for most of my life. For a first timer, I strongly concur with the suggestion to follow Hal Higdon's training plan. Running is just like road cyling in the sense that you should build your base first. For me, the most enjoyable part of the plan are the LSD (Long Slow Distance) runs. Learn to eat and drink while running, just like cycling. Pay attention to your body and rest well. Don't overtrain. The challenging part of a marathon training program is to ensure that the training itself doesn't smoke you. Better to show up on race/run day a little under trained than overtrained. Rest, rest, rest. For your LSD runs and the marathon itself, start out at a pace that is 75% of what you think you should be at. Running a marathon is a long energy conservation exercise. Have fun!

[19wisconsin64]

agree with prior posts. take much more time than a few months! sheldon brown was very much against folks doing way too much too soon.

build up to longer runs safely, with lots of level-headed advice.

a bit of advice: change your shoes frequently...they loose the shock absorption, and they are the only thing between your bones and the harsh pavement.

one more (i ran for many years before switching to cycling) --if you will be running at times other than day light, wear very reflective clothing, and always be wary of cars.

with planning you can do it! good luck!!

[merlinmurph]

b) Most plans won't have you running more than 18 -20 miles as your longest run. Unfortunately, that's about the time / distance where the magic happens.

I've ofter heard that the 20-mile mark is the halfway point.

Good luck in your training, take it slow and easy to avoid injury. We'll see you in Boston next April!

Murph
(who lives in Hopkinton, where the Boston Marathon starts)

[AngryScientist]

i agree with all of the above advice, but with a warning:

most of the training plans you're seeing assume that you're NOT starting at ground zero, so to speak. most of them imply that you've covered the base training period and have have a minimum fitness level going INTO the training plan.

you really need some very very low stress base building acclimatization period to get your whole body ready to start a training plan. to repeat for importance, you should really be comfortable running, and get there slowly before starting a training plan or you have a very real risk of some type of injury if you jump in head first.

that said, its great fun and a great accomplishment to run a marathon, go for it!

[Len J]

Learn how to run first. If you can hear your footfalls, you are doing it wrong, wasting energy and damaging your body. Sink into your hips. You'll be much happier doing it right.

That being said, I see less than 5% of recreational runners, running correctly....it's mad painful to watch.

Len

[oldpotatoe]

Running a marathon is one of the things I've had on my "to-do" list for a couple of years. I do a bit of recreational running now, but not too much. I've been thinking about running a marathon in November of this year. Looking around at some marathon training programs they seem to be of the 18-20 week schedule.

Any marathon runners out there? Any advice for a newbie?

Start to 20 miles...the first half of the race

20 to finish...the second half.

The biggest obstacle is convincing your mind that you can run for that distance/time(3.5-4 hrs is the key. My first was 3:56..USMC marathon in 1978).

Include a long run each week(like 3 hours or so. Distance doesn't matter, time running does)

[henrypretz]

16 marathons for me so far.

You'll never forget your first marathon.
I think my best advice would be, as has been suggested, make sure you have a rock solid base going into that 18-20 week training program. I like having my twice monthly long run in the 12-14 mile range going in. That said, choose a training plan that is compatible with your goal for the marathon. There are plans out there that take you from the couch to the finish line (not my first choice but I know a ton of folks who have done it that way, many for their first and only marathon :rolleyes: )
Higdon has solid plans. Runners World has a variety of plans to suit your goals.
As for the longest long run question, I ran my fastest marathon on a long run of 28 miles (built up to that slowly, of course) However, I ran within a minute of that time 5 years later (read:older) on a longest LR of 24, so I think a lot can be said for the simple accumulation of miles over the years.

Oh cripes, I'm babbling! Sorry about that.

Just run. Go into it with dedication. Use whatever you can from which to draw motivation. If you aren't already, run some shorter races for fun. If you miss a day of training (or a week even) don't stress. Just start it back up from there.
I'll stop now. Feel free to PM if there is anything I can do.

Henry

Which marathon are you planning on running?

[erolorhun]

Learn how to run forst. If you can here your footfalls, you are doing it wrong, wasting energy and damaging your body. Sink into your hips. You'll be much happier doing it right.

That being said, I see less than 5% of recreational runners, running correctly....it's mad painful to watch.

Len

Hm, care to elaborate on that? Been treadmillin` a lot for the past year and a half and make sure that I change my rhythm a few times during each session. I.E. taking longer or shorter (higher/lower frequency) steps, concentrating on how I let my feet fall (like a sack of potatoes or controlled) etc.
As a quick passus I find running pleasingly simple and to-the-point for full-time working people like me. You lace your shoes and go out and run.

Sorry for the semi thread-hijack! :beer:

[pitcrew]

Thanks for all of the feedback and suggestions!

[Len J]

Hm, care to elaborate on that? Been treadmillin` a lot for the past year and a half and make sure that I change my rhythm a few times during each session. I.E. taking longer or shorter (higher/lower frequency) steps, concentrating on how I let my feet fall (like a sack of potatoes or controlled) etc.
As a quick passus I find running pleasingly simple and to-the-point for full-time working people like me. You lace your shoes and go out and run.

Sorry for the semi thread-hijack! :beer:

Next time you run.....try lowering your center of gravity into your hips and concentrate on running w light footfalls..........it will probably feel odd but it's more efficient, less tiring and easier on the body. Also, your torso shouldn't be going up and down but forward.

You have to train yourself to run right.

Len

[jh_on_the_cape]

I did the Hal higdon novice plan. I was running 3 to 5 miles 3 to 5 times a week when I started.


It was totally awesome and I cannot wait until my schedule and life and family provide me the time to do it again.

Until that program I never would have run 9 miles in the pouring rain or 12 miles on a treadmill. Stick to the plan no matter what and you should be fine.

I did have issues at mile 20. I think that's why the marathon has remained such an event for us. It's long enough to be doable. But long enough to have those issues.

Shoes last about 300 miles. Don't cheap out. Find a safe place to run like a bike path.

I did lots of books ontape on my iPod for long runs.
Get a gps watch. I liked being able to just go running without a plan then just turning around at halfway and knowing I would get my mileage in. Inalso found it useful for pacing. The garmin forerunner 205 is very cheap now.

I ran in Siracusa Italy. My whole family made a vacation out of it. I have some awesome stories from the training runs.

[dogdriver]

I originally used the "slow for the first half, pace for the second half" mindset (don't run as fast as you feel like you can early).

Later, a more experienced runner suggested that I divide the run into 4 10K's: First 10K slow and easy (at or below your planned pace) with emphasis on form and smooth flow, second and third at a sustainable pace (planned pace) , gut out the fourth with concentration on efficient movement. Worked for me-- your results may vary. Drink (don't pass a water stop the first half), eat, etc, before you feel you need to.

Good luck!

[rice rocket]

Shoes last about 300 miles.

Really? So if you run 5 miles, 5 times a week, that means you need shoes every 3 months? Seems a little extreme.

[wc1934]

+1

Congratulations on taking on the challenge of 26.2. I have ran six marathons and have been a runner for most of my life. For a first timer, I strongly concur with the suggestion to follow Hal Higdon's training plan. Running is just like road cyling in the sense that you should build your base first. For me, the most enjoyable part of the plan are the LSD (Long Slow Distance) runs. Learn to eat and drink while running, just like cycling. Pay attention to your body and rest well. Don't overtrain. The challenging part of a marathon training program is to ensure that the training itself doesn't smoke you. Better to show up on race/run day a little under trained than overtrained. Rest, rest, rest. For your LSD runs and the marathon itself, start out at a pace that is 75% of what you think you should be at. Running a marathon is a long energy conservation exercise. Have fun!

mgm777 is right on -a good base is important - I started out being able to run 4-5 miles - did daily 5 mile runs, added about a mile per week on my long runs building up to 19 being my longest - but i also did speed work on a track once a week - sprinted half way around a quarter mile track, jogged/recovered the 2nd half around - repeated those laps - all total 5 miles - that really worked for me - it is good to train with someone just a little faster than you - as stated, on race day start out slowly - resist the urge to go fast - good luck

[Tim]

You say "I do a bit of recreational running now, but not too much......Looking around at some marathon training programs they seem to be of the 18-20 week schedule"
I have run 8 marathons, and many, many shorter races. I'm not sure going from 'a bit' of running to the marathon distance in 18-20 weeks is a great idea.
Yes, you'll most likely finish, but you may pay a price in terms of pain, aches, speed and time on the road. These things are long! And, yes, as others have said, 20 miles (or 32 km. here in Canada) is about the halfway point in terms of how you feel. Those first 20, if you're in good shape, should feel easy in comparison to the last 6. Also, the less time you're on the road, the better, in my opinion. I see people finishing these things in 5 hours, 6 hours etc. This is way too long to be on the road- and you really pay a price in terms of recovery and the way you feel after.
Better to be well trained, have the time to incorporate speed work into your training (which should come after a big training base) and run this thing at a reasonable speed, and actually be able to enjoy most of the day.
I also would say that to run something like New York or another big one may not be a good starter marathon- the huge crowds along the roads and the energy of the thousands of runners around you may encourage you to run faster than you have planned for, especially at the start- and you always pay a price for that- and it's always right about 21 miles that you pay the price.
I'm sure 18-20 weeks of training can get you across the finish line-but, for me anyway, I'd rather enjoy the experience and feel good at the end (or at least as good as you can feel, after running this distance) and a long, long, lead up, with a big training base, many long runs, speed work etc, will (hopefully) guarantee a good race.
One more thing- try to run as many short (5km, 10km.) races as you can to get used to racing, and running with others and the feel of the whole thing- short races are easy on your body, and so you can get a good workout, pay no price in terms of pain, and have the added benefit of the experience of racing. Sorry for this long rant!

[fkelly]

Not that anyone pays much attention to such warnings or even that my 35 year old self (experienced competitive runner but pre-marathon) would have listened to my current 64 year old self but still ... RECONSIDER. The cartilage in your knees is not replaceable. It doesn't grow back. Running, especially long distances, does damage. How soon it will affect you depends on your genetics but the training that's needed to run a decent marathon will speed the damage up considerably.

If you are still determined you might want to consider a two year, two step program. The first year work yourself up through 5k and 10k and 15k races to as far as a 30k (18.6 miles). Find out what kind of time you can run those in. The second year, use the 30k as a base and work up gradually to be able to run 26.2. Everything the others have said about the wall you hit somewhere past 20 miles is completely true. Also, something I haven't seen posted: find yourself a running group of runners in similar condition and with similar aspirations. It's a great motivator and since you will all be suffering together it will create life long bonds.

[jh_on_the_cape]

Is that really true that knee cartiledge never grows back? Are you an MD? I am not but I know that is a common misconception about brain tissue.

[BobbyJones]

Running, especially long distances, does damage. How soon it will affect you depends on your genetics but the training that's needed to run a decent marathon will speed the damage up considerably.


Unless you've got hard info, I'll defer to this article that says you're wrong.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/phys-ed-can-running-actually-help-your-knees/

[fkelly]

"Unless you've got hard info, I'll defer to this article that says you're wrong."

I read the blog post from the Times and it is enlightening. I stand corrected, at least of an over-generalization. I would still stick by my recommendation to adopt an incremental approach towards running a marathon, probably over the course of a couple of years for a newer runner. Work up from a mile on the track to a 5k, to a 5 miler, a 10k, a 15k towards a 30k in a year. Rest, reassess and keep working on it. While you are running the 5k ask yourself "do I really want to do this times 8?" Apply the same arithmetic and question to the rest.