anyone switch from Campy to Sram?

[uber]

I have spoken to several people who are happy with the switch from Shimano to Sram, but not from Campy to Sram. Anyone?

[san]

I've rode both but my switch was preference. I wasn't a fan of the thumb shifting.
I feel double tap was more responsive but then again, that was a switch from 01 campy record to new sram rival

[oliver1850]

.

[vqdriver]

Timely question.
I'm in the process now of going from campy to SRAM. I went from shimano to campy cuz I like the feel of the shifts better but could never get totally comfortable with location of the thumb lever.

I already have one bike on Force and am using Red on the current build. I'm pretty happy with it.

[oliver1850]

.

[Idris Icabod]

I've had Campagnolo exclusively and recently decided to build up an old frame with something different. I tried a friends SRAM Red bike but didn't like the shifting as I am too stupid to work it out. I think I'm going to go Dura Ace and get a pair of Chris King hubs just to see what I've been missing all these years. I'd like Di2 but the frame is Ti and I don't want the wires stuck on the outrside of the frame.

[JMerring]

i gave sram a whirl to experience the double tap. didn't make the switch. why downgrade? :)

[pdmtong]

two bikes have campy 10sp (2007 and 2008) and two have sram force (2008 and 2010)

force is fine. feels good. but to me, not as good as my campy. would have gone chorus 11 instead of the 2010 force but was budget limited at the time

[roundabout]

My housemate/teammate is currently trying to unload his Record 10 for Force/Red. As a sprinter, he has a hard time dealing with the thumb lever, and as a college student he has a hard time dealing with the cost. If you can afford to keep your campy and like the functionality of it, you're probably not going to be particularly excited by SRAM's offerings. However, it does shift well, at a significantly lower price point. I personally won't be buying campy anytime soon, my next group will be red. Why? Because I can't afford campy.

[crownjewelwl]

I agree with vq about the thumb lever. It's fine if you ride the hoods all the time. I have trouble reaching it from the drops it the levers are mounted high enough to permit comfortable riding on the hoods. That said I have trouble shifting Shimano from the drops as well.

It really helps using compact bars. The thumb levers are much more accessible.

[gearguywb]

Switched all of our bikes over a year or so ago and haven't looked back. Nothing wrong with Campy at all IMHO, just was tired of having a bunch of different wheel sets that only went with certain bikes, and at that time (when 11spd came out) Campy was stupid expensive.

[AngryScientist]

... why downgrade? :)

exactly

[AngryScientist]

If you can afford to keep your campy and like the functionality of it, you're probably not going to be particularly excited by SRAM's offerings. However, it does shift well, at a significantly lower price point. I personally won't be buying campy anytime soon, my next group will be red. Why? Because I can't afford campy.

this logic doesnt add up (pun!). campy simply doesnt cost more than sram any day of the week if you do your shopping smartly. RED in particular is definitely more expensive than most campy stuff, across the board. saying you're buying sram red because you cant afford to ride campy is just silly. just sayin...

[Dave]

I bought Campy 11 when it first came out for considerably less than Campy 10 parts from a couple of years earlier. Prices from the UK were at an all time low in the first few months of '09. UK stores did not jack up the prices like US stores and the exchange rates were favorable.

[Charles M]

Going back and fourth...

Zero problems.

Don't care one way or the other which I use.

[norcalbiker]

i gave sram a whirl to experience the double tap. didn't make the switch. why downgrade? :)


:beer:

[norcalbiker]

It really helps using compact bars. The thumb levers are much more accessible.


Very true! I have no problem reaching the thumb lever from the drop.

[feta99]

Long time Campy user. I put SRAM on a recent bike build and functionally it works great, but I did have a problem with the front derailleur. It locked up during a downshift under load. Kind of my problem, but never experienced that with Campy. SRAM ergonomics are good, but I love the new Campy shape. One more thing, I do find SRAM breaking less effective than Campy.

Cheers,
AC

[veloduffer]

I'm a long time Campy and Shimano user and have tried SRAM but I don't like the double click. It's not that intuitive to me - maybe my brain is now hardwired for double levers? I think it is a personal thing. Choices are good.

[DonH]

I switched one of my bikes from Record 10 to SRAM Force recently. I like the SRAM a lot - especially the rear shifting....never had a problem with the Campagnolo shifting though. This past weekend was my 1st long ride on the SRAM stuff and I did find myself trying to shift with my thumbs at first.
My reason for changing was basically to try something different. The Force group is a good value IMO. I do like the SRAM gearing options, too.

[bkboom123]

If you don't mind me asking....where on earth do you find campy stuff for cheaper then Sram red? If I buy black/grey market the forum will be pissed i didn't buy msrp from a lbs.
Any reputable place in the states ( not black market) does not sell Sram red for nearly the same price as a comparable campy group.
Personally I like my ceramic pulley bearings and cheaper pricing then campy chorus, record, and super record. The main reason I dislike campy is because of thumb shifting, can't reach it in the drops. Didn't like it on shimano 2203, don't like it on chorus 11. Just a preference thing I suppose.

[crownjewelwl]

If you don't mind me asking....where on earth do you find campy stuff for cheaper then Sram red? If I buy black/grey market the forum will be pissed i didn't buy msrp from a lbs.
Any reputable place in the states ( not black market) does not sell Sram red for nearly the same price as a comparable campy group.
Personally I like my ceramic pulley bearings and cheaper pricing then campy chorus, record, and super record. The main reason I dislike campy is because of thumb shifting, can't reach it in the drops. Didn't like it on shimano 2203, don't like it on chorus 11. Just a preference thing I suppose.

on sale! cc just blew out last year's campy at really good prices. it isn't impossible.

[bikser]

I switched from Dura Ace 7800 to Campy 11 last year. Campy 11 performed beautiful, and its a work of art. However, I never lived the thumb shifter as my hand grips in that area and it always interfered. Secondly, the bend/reach on the levers was too far out from the bars for me (smallish hands). I like descending in the mountains, hitting 60MPH and not being able to reach or grip the levers didn't sit well with me. Changed over to SRAM after than as they had lever adjustment. Again, being picky never could get the levers to feel right. Parts performed perfectly (other than brakes didn't feel as solid as Campy or Shimano). Eventually went back to tried and true 7800 (mixed with 7900).

[bkboom123]

Just out of curiosity, what did they blow out and for how much?

[thegunner]

Just out of curiosity, what did they blow out and for how much?

a lot of the 2010 11s stuff was on sale at the end of the year (athena levers were <$200? and so were the UT cranks?).

as for all the commentary on not being able to hit the thumb levers... i'll never understand it. i have tiny hands and they've never been a problem. i might have to rotate my hands slightly, but the feel is completely different from sora/2200

[rice rocket]

as for all the commentary on not being able to hit the thumb levers... i'll never understand it. i have tiny hands and they've never been a problem. i might have to rotate my hands slightly, but the feel is completely different from sora/2200

It's not a question of not being able to, it's a question of wanting to. I'm starting to ride more and more in the drops, and the longer I can stay there, the happier I am.

I've ridden my g/f's cross bike w/ Sora, and having to go to the hoods to shift is somewhat annoying, especially in a sprint or down a hill. Downtube shifters would be more ergonomic at that point... :rolleyes:

[roundabout]

this logic doesnt add up (pun!). campy simply doesnt cost more than sram any day of the week if you do your shopping smartly. RED in particular is definitely more expensive than most campy stuff, across the board. saying you're buying sram red because you cant afford to ride campy is just silly. just sayin...

What? Last time I checked the comparable campy version was significantly more expensive retail-wise than the Sram offering. Even at wholesale my housemate couldn't afford new campy parts, yet is making the switch to sram just fine. I may be a bit out of the loop as I get most of my gear from sponsors, but ignoring the "great deals" one can find online, prices as according to competitive cyclist:

Super Record 11: $2612 vs Red: $2160 w/ Ceramic BB
(Campy here is 121% the price of Sram, Record even is still slightly more expensive than Red.)

Chorus: $1572 vs Force: $1276
(I have never ridden chorus, but assume it to be the Force equivalent. 123% of Force's price)

[thegunner]

It's not a question of not being able to, it's a question of wanting to. I'm starting to ride more and more in the drops, and the longer I can stay there, the happier I am.

I've ridden my g/f's cross bike w/ Sora, and having to go to the hoods to shift is somewhat annoying, especially in a sprint or down a hill. Downtube shifters would be more ergonomic at that point... :rolleyes:

that's what i'm saying, the ergonomics of campy don't force you to go to the hoods. i can shift perfectly fine from the drops.

[rice rocket]

You must have long thumbs?

Perhaps the new 11 speed stuff is different, but I've tooled around on my friend's Record 10 stuff and didn't find it particularly easy to upshift from the drops. The STI paddle is a much better solution IMHO, but I'm guessing Shimano/SRAM are holding tightly onto their patents (and Campy doesn't want it to seem like they're giving in).

[Dave]

If you don't mind me asking....where on earth do you find campy stuff for cheaper then Sram red? If I buy black/grey market the forum will be pissed i didn't buy msrp from a lbs.
Any reputable place in the states ( not black market) does not sell Sram red for nearly the same price as a comparable campy group.
Personally I like my ceramic pulley bearings and cheaper pricing then campy chorus, record, and super record. The main reason I dislike campy is because of thumb shifting, can't reach it in the drops. Didn't like it on shimano 2203, don't like it on chorus 11. Just a preference thing I suppose.

You buy from places like Ribble or Shiny Bikes in the UK for the best prices.

I've got very small hands and I can reach the thumb button from the hooks. The normal hand position would have the index finger very near the lower edge of the brake hood. From there, it's not hard to reach the thumb button. Of course the thumb button can't be reached if the hand is placed much lower in a deep drop hook.

Regarding the complaint about brake lever reach, that's easy to reduce. A little epoxy putty placed on the ergo behind the quick release pin. The brake lever can be moved as close as desired, but you have to leave enough space for the brake lever to operate the brakes properly. I've been making this modification for at least 8 years now. It's not permanent either. The epoxy does not adhere so tightly that it can't be removed.

[Dave B]

I know it is totally subjective, but I think what works in your hands really is overlooked. All levels function, all shift, all brake (like in stopping), but finding what fits your hand can make for a happier rider.

I think the smoothness of shimano is sublime, but the 7800 DA in particular was like holding a banana and as much as I fiddled with it I hated how it felt. SRAM is nice and flat, but very volumous in my hand. Campy (10 speed) is perfect...for my hands. It is flat, thin to a perfect level yada yada.

I like the in store avilability of Sram and shimano and the costs of Campy can be a factor, but with no monetary contraints would be a campy guy through out. As this is not the case I do whatever I can find a deal on.

[bkboom123]

Again, any of the top groups perform amazingly on the road.....Its all preference though. Fortunatly/Unfortunatly I didnt grow up in Italy where everyone rides Campy growing up. When I am riding my bike in the drops, my thumbs go straight, or even down. They just don't jack-knife upwards at a 90 degree angle to shift (lower angle if I want to bend my wrists or dip my elbows drastically). This is an ergonomics thing, and I dont perceive this to be comfortable ergonomics for my body/riding style, thats all.

This does get annoying after every groupset thread anyone that rides campy just bashes any other groupset and is, for the most part, a snob about it. ALL OF THE GROUPS WORK GREAT. Anything that is not CAMPY doesnt suck. It is all a preference; my preference is that I hate the ergonomics of campy, it just doesnt fit my riding style/comfort level.

FWIW, comp cyclist has a you tube video about one of the riders/workers switching from Shimano 7800 to Red. He gives a brief reasoning as to why he went Sram instead of Campy and Shimano, kind of interesting.

[uber]

Thanks to all for your thoughtful responses. I have to add that my recent dealings with Sram customer service have been amazing. I couldn't imagine a company offering better support. This sentiment has been shared by my LBS dealings with the company as well.

[legacysti888]

I have and currently own all three groups in different bikes.

They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I grew up with Campy and Dura Ace but when SRAM introduced the double tap shifting, I thought it was the best thing since slice bread! Once I got it tuned right, it's just so intuitive to me.

YMMV.

My fav for the past year has been Di2, though. It just kills everything in sight. It's all in the prepping and it just disappears under you.

[jghall]

I'm a little late to chime in, but always find if funny when people write "shimaNO:, or "sram sucks", or "your only a real rider if you use campy".

As mentioned by many, they are all good. Riding style, fit, and preference. Obviously with some, cost becomes a variable too.

[bssjackson]

I am switching from sram red to Record 11. I have been using the sram for the last 2 years and have never had any problems with it. The only thing which was actually recent is my return spring broke in the RD but sram is sending a new one. Considering it probably has over 25,000 miles on it that's pretty good. I have always wanted campy so thats why Im getting it. I have had shimano, sram, going to campy, ad at the end of the year I'm going Di2 that stuff is the bomber.

[weiwentg]

I'm a little late to chime in, but always find if funny when people write "shimaNO:, or "sram sucks", or "your only a real rider if you use campy".

As mentioned by many, they are all good. Riding style, fit, and preference. Obviously with some, cost becomes a variable too.

FWIW, I'm a Campy guy and when I do the shimaNO thing, I do it solely to be funny.

Back on topic, I'm putting SRAM on my old commuter bike for my wife. She, like me, has small hands. However, I find Campy cassettes to be a bit on the expensive side, so I went with Shimano (DT shifters) for the drivetrain. I'm installing SRAM shifters, because I think the reach on Shimano STIs will be too long for either of us, and because SRAM's reach is quite easily adjustable. the rear derailler shifted quite nicely on the stand, imo, but it hasn't been road tested.

[veggieburger]

I understand what people are saying about Campy thumb shifters...if you are down in the drops they aren't super easy to reach (at least not on my 10 speed group). However, if you spend most of your time in the hoods or on the top of the bars (like I do), they are wonderful, and I can't emphasize enough how maintenance-free the Campy stuff is. Set it up right the first time and it will click along happily season after season. :hello:

[pavel]

this logic doesnt add up (pun!). campy simply doesnt cost more than sram any day of the week if you do your shopping smartly. RED in particular is definitely more expensive than most campy stuff, across the board. saying you're buying sram red because you cant afford to ride campy is just silly. just sayin...


this whole thread is just blasphemous...

and for the record i never have a hard time reaching my campy shifters while riding the drops.

[Aaron O]

Switching from Campy to SRAM would be like going from:

Apple to Windows...
Delassandros to Genos (local reference)
Bells Oberon to Bud Lite
Miyata to Bridgestone
Lagavulin to JW Black
NPR to Fox news
Letterman to Leno
The Kinks to The Who
5 Guys to McDonalds
De Rosa to Colnago
The Phillies to The Mets

DON'T DO IT!!!

[forrestw]

Here's what I get based on wholesale pricing:

DA=1, Red=.92, Record=.97

These just aren't big differences in price and looking at Super-Record as a comparison point is just silly, The biggest cost difference in SR is the 6 Ti cogs in the cassette, you want a better price and durability then simply install a Chorus cassette.

If you like the style / ergonomics / universality of shimano or SRAM, cool but to say they're better value is not imx so.

Neither SRAM nor Shimano is functionally rebuildable and the rep I've heard here on Red is that it breaks down -- it is possible to be too light.

The biggest difference in both operation and cost to my mind is that because Campy chains wear at 1/2 - 1/4 the rate of Shimano/SRAM, the most expensive on-going cost (replacing chains and cassettes) will bring the long term cost of campy well below either of it's competitors.

My point of comparison btw was 9 speed shimano ultegra to 10 speed Chorus Campy. I would find my shimano / SRAM chain out to 1% 'stretch' in < 2000 miles. By comparison Campy 10 chains have had barely detectable wear .16-.25% at 2000 miles. Same rider, same maintenance / cleaning. (When I was riding a Shimano I started swapping chains out at 1000 miles @, say 3 of them then run each of them another 1k miles so that as they stretched, out to the wear limit of 1% they were working against the already-worn cassette (a fair number of riders have discovered this trick).

Because worn chain is the primary cause of premature wear in cassettes that also means that riding a chorus cassette, it's not visibly worn at 6000 miles spread across 3 chains (Campy says to swap chains at a much lower wear level, < .4%). I haven't decided yet whether I'll recycle the campy chains the way I used to do with shimano -- certainly not on Ti cogs. As far as I can tell I'm gonna get 10,000 miles on my Chorus cassette.

Someday I'll probably make the jump to 11, I love the feel of those new shifters. Anyhow, not considering SRAM.

[JMerring]

Switching from Campy to SRAM would be like going from:

Apple to Windows...
Delassandros to Genos (local reference)
Bells Oberon to Bud Lite
Miyata to Bridgestone
Lagavulin to JW Black
NPR to Fox news
Letterman to Leno
The Kinks to The Who
5 Guys to McDonalds
De Rosa to Colnago
The Phillies to The Mets

DON'T DO IT!!!

all true except the kinks to who thing - it should be the other way around!!!

for the record, i, too, have no problem reaching my chorus thumb shifters from the drops, and i don't have big hands.

[Russity]

For what it's worth.....In the last five years in our bike shop, we worked out that NOT ONE customer has moved from Campy to SRAM. All the switches have been from Shimano. And the reason wasn't simply because of the similar shifting between the two. Almost everyone on campy said that it worked, it lasted and it never let them down. And I have to agree with that. We see way more SRAM bikes in the workshop to get adjusted than we do Campy or Shimano (mainly because the guys have decided to tweek it themselves I'll add). But also, I'm sorry to say, that the SRAM stuff just doesn't go the distance. You get what you pay for in life and the Campy is well worth the extra coin in the long run. Having said that, if you don't like the shifting, go with the SRAM.

[dd74]

One thing that might make Campy cheaper than SRAM or Shimano is the ability for parts, particularly the shifters to be rebuilt. I don't think that's possible with Shimano or SRAM.

Conceivably, after buying a custom frame with a Campy group, in the long run, a person would really never need to buy another frame or groupset again.

[FixedNotBroken]

Unless you get it for free and can easily afford it..no one NEEDS Super Record. I ride Record with a Chorus cassette and I am pleased.

When you compare all three: DA, Record, Red..don't include SR.

Pick one..because YOU like it and enjoy the feel, not because of everyone else. I have had/ridden Rival, Force, Red, Chorus, Record, Super Record, 105, Ultegra, DA, Tiagra and Sora.

I ride Campy and will not switch because I believe the durability is the best along with the asthetic appeal and comfortability of the hoods. I love it and the shifting is the best to ME. Pick what is best for you and no matter what you choose, ride the snot out of it.

[norcalbiker]

I have a Campy Record 10 and Campy SR11. I am actually thinking of switching Campy Record 10 to Sram Red/Force. Reason for the switch is because I want to built a Sram with Sram XX Rear Der. and Sram XX 32 or even 34 rear cassette so I have a climbing bike. I would like to do some event with lots of climbing like Death Ride, etc...









Anyone interested on a Campy Record 10? :D

[pavel]

norcalbiker, yes, and pm me if/when you decide to proceed with your foolhardy endeavor :D

However, have you considered simply getting bigger cogs? Miche makes campagnolo splined cogs... You can increase your range for an affordable price (Slough's in San Jose has miche cogs for $10 a piece, and get a long cage rear der) without having to junk an entire gruppo.

There is also the trick of running a shimano mega range cassette with campy spacers.


what am i saying - just sell me your record 10 already!

[Aaron O]

all true except the kinks to who thing - it should be the other way around!!!

for the record, i, too, have no problem reaching my chorus thumb shifters from the drops, and i don't have big hands.

HA!

Village Green > Tommy

Arthur > Quadrophenia

To the Bone > Live at Leeds

I have a serious Ray Davies addiction.

[bozman]

Switching from Campy to SRAM would be like going from:

Apple to Windows...
Delassandros to Genos (local reference)
Bells Oberon to Bud Lite
Miyata to Bridgestone
Lagavulin to JW Black
NPR to Fox news
Letterman to Leno
The Kinks to The Who
5 Guys to McDonalds
De Rosa to Colnago
The Phillies to The Mets

DON'T DO IT!!!

Post of the year!

I especially like the next-to-last line.

For the Record I have never tried SRAM so I cannot comment. I have Chorus 10 on the cross/commuter and Record 11 on the road bike. My wife will let me get my Campy tattoo after I write a one-page paper explaining why I should have one.

[DonH]

I recently switched one of my bikes from Record 10 to Force (as I posted a few months ago). I'm still pretty happy with the Force parts. It took me a few rides to get used to the front shifting though.
I still prefer Dura-Ace shifting to both SRAM or Campagnolo, but I can't stand the looks of the DA cranks. Appearance really does matter to me.
I think some bike shops are anti-Campagnolo too.....Seems like I hear a lot of grumbling about Campagnolo stuff from bike shop guys. It gets annoying.
My Sachs has Record 9, and I have a nice Chorus 10 group for my next nice bike stashed away though.

[fatallightning]

i haven't switched, but have done a lot of demos on sram bikes. i'm not a fan of sram front shifting, it's slow, and takes a bit of effort. the rear, i don't mind. i do miss dumping the cassette on the thumb buttons, and not being able to throw up as many gears in the other directions. i also think the sram hood shape feels like poo.

[dd74]

Unless you get it for free and can easily afford it..no one NEEDS Super Record. I ride Record with a Chorus cassette and I am pleased.

When you compare all three: DA, Record, Red..don't include SR.
Why would no one NEED Super Record? I've talked to many Campy-equipped cyclists who suggest SR to be superior to Record and Chorus, if anything in durability, weight and efficiency. Of course all that is subjective.

In any event, I would definitely compare SR with other groups.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Exactly, Aaron.Switching from Campy to SRAM would be like going from:

Apple to Windows...
Delassandros to Genos (local reference)
Bells Oberon to Bud Lite
Miyata to Bridgestone
Lagavulin to JW Black
NPR to Fox news
Letterman to Leno
The Kinks to The Who
5 Guys to McDonalds
De Rosa to Colnago
The Phillies to The Mets

DON'T DO IT!!!

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

With overseas shops, patience, and a bit of stalking on this forum, cl and sleazebay, Campy is cheap. Paid zero for full '06 record10, took a few months and some wheelin' and dealin' (with the help of a few here), but I finally have Record, and my house isn't in forclosure. Never tried SRAM, DA is nice, but, why fix what isn't broken. All my wheelsets work with all of my bikes, yay! I'd have Campy on the MTB's if they made it (good, that is).

[oldpotatoe]

I have a Campy Record 10 and Campy SR11. I am actually thinking of switching Campy Record 10 to Sram Red/Force. Reason for the switch is because I want to built a Sram with Sram XX Rear Der. and Sram XX 32 or even 34 rear cassette so I have a climbing bike. I would like to do some event with lots of climbing like Death Ride, etc...









Anyone interested on a Campy Record 10? :D

Get a long cage Campagnolo rear der, the longest one and then use a shimano 11-34 9s cogset and shimano 9s chain..shifts great, I've done this with a few touring bikes.

[oldpotatoe]

Why would no one NEED Super Record? I've talked to many Campy-equipped cyclists who suggest SR to be superior to Record and Chorus, if anything in durability, weight and efficiency. Of course all that is subjective.

In any event, I would definitely compare SR with other groups.

Durability and efficiency is exactly the same since the shifter innards, etc is the same. Yep, SR lighter than Record which is lighter than Chorus but function is the same.

[AngryScientist]

Why would no one NEED Super Record? I've talked to many Campy-equipped cyclists who suggest SR to be superior to Record and Chorus, if anything in durability, weight and efficiency. Of course all that is subjective.

In any event, I would definitely compare SR with other groups.

just for the record, most of the bikes in the pro peloton (that run campy) are running record, not SR, definitely a few are, but in the pro ranks, record runs side by side with Sram Red and Dura Ace, SR is a step over the top.

[oldpotatoe]

just for the record, most of the bikes in the pro peloton (that run campy) are running record, not SR, definitely a few are, but in the pro ranks, record runs side by side with Sram Red and Dura Ace, SR is a step over the top.

I'm convinced this is why Campagnolo made Record in 2009 in the first place...for sponsorship.

Interesting that lots of 'stuff' in the PRO peloton, used by teams, are made more durable, more functional, rather than the stuff adverted to death. The 'upgraded' Reynolds wheels come to mind..round spokes, laced 2 cross, tied/soldered cuz weight isn't the issue, stiffness and reliability is. Also steel sram FDers, few Red cogsets, shimano chains.

[Aaron O]

I'm convinced this is why Campagnolo made Record in 2009 in the first place...for sponsorship.

Interesting that lots of 'stuff' in the PRO peloton, used by teams, are made more durable, more functional, rather than the stuff adverted to death. The 'upgraded' Reynolds wheels come to mind..round spokes, laced 2 cross, tied/soldered cuz weight isn't the issue, stiffness and reliability is. Also steel sram FDers, few Red cogsets, shimano chains.

I have Steve Bauer's Motorola Merckx, which is apprently 753. It has 8sp Ergo, and Deltas, with 32 h wheels, so right off, it's no weight weenie build. Still - I was amazed at the weight of a bike used in the TDF, even for early 90s steel. I was especially shocked given that i thought 753 was quite light and thin, and this doesn't ring like a bell. I ended up speaking with an italian pro who rode with bauer (I wish I could remember his name) and he said the pros care far less about weight than everyone else. He also said 4 pounds might be slower up, but it's faster down.

For them, they want reliable, durable and comfortable. As an amateur way back when (lowly cat 4), we weren't obsessed with weight, except our own weight. We took our cues from the mechanics and coaches. Of course, at that time, there really wasn't a whole lot of weight variation anyway unless you had something crazy, like titanium which NO ONE could afford.

[AngryScientist]

He also said 4 pounds might be slower up, but it's faster down.




right. and let's not forget that no matter how much time or effort 4 pounds might save you, its totally lost if a mechanical during a race requires you to get a wheel or bike change out, that time is hard to recover.

the fastest bike is the one that doesn't break as far as long distance racing is converned i would think.

[Bob Ross]

Switching from Campy to SRAM would be like going from:

Miyata to Bridgestone




Totally off topic, but I'm curious what you mean by that comparison?
I have no direct experience with Miyata frames, but everything I know about them (gleaned from internet forums such as this one) suggests they're one of a handful of Japanese steel frames that are essentially equivalent in terms of value...and that Bridgestone is also on that short list.

[Aaron O]

You'll have to forgive me, I like Miyatas (which are usually made with miyata tubing, so i dare say they aren't generic Japanese bikes) and dislike the markups and marketing associated with Bridgestone, which I do think were glorified generic Japanese bikes, at least in the RB series and touring bikes. Obviously the XO series and some of their MTBs would be outside of this opinion.

It's just a personal bias, like every other opinion stated in the comparisons :)

Except for the Phillies - Mets. That's objective fact.

[Bob Ross]

Except for the Phillies - Mets. That's objective fact.


LOL! Reminds me of a cartoon I saw in the Village Voice many years ago:

Fun Facts: Did you know "Mets" is short for "New York Metropolitans" ?
And "Yankees" is short for "Yankees Suck"

[dana_e]

I do not like the double tap, is one more tap than I want to deal with

not a super fan of the click one and release for the down shift for SRAM, although not a big deal, I like the non Escape / Non Power Shift Campy stuff

click, click, boom

Plus I like the campy front shifting

Not to mention the Ergo shape campy is using now is the best for me

[flydhest]

He also said 4 pounds might be slower up, but it's faster down.


Right, but it's nonlinear, so the difference doesn't wash out. Of course, I am not one to argue that 4 pounds will matter a whole lot.

I suspect, though,that even the early 90s frame/fork when combined with the lightest components and wheels of today would be pretty light, and could possibly hit the UCI limit.

[jsfoster]

I have 2 bikes with Campy 10 and one with Force 10. Force 10 came on the bike....but I switched wheels, and am using nucleons and the sram shifts perfectly on the campy cassette.
Back to the shifters, Campy stuff seems to be stronger and more precise, push, it goes. The double tap, etc, if one were needing an instant shift to pass or flee up a hill, seems a little casual.
Also, the Force shifters are crumbling, but I did get it used...
Campy....

[oldpotatoe]

I have Steve Bauer's Motorola Merckx, which is apprently 753. It has 8sp Ergo, and Deltas, with 32 h wheels, so right off, it's no weight weenie build. Still - I was amazed at the weight of a bike used in the TDF, even for early 90s steel. I was especially shocked given that i thought 753 was quite light and thin, and this doesn't ring like a bell. I ended up speaking with an italian pro who rode with bauer (I wish I could remember his name) and he said the pros care far less about weight than everyone else. He also said 4 pounds might be slower up, but it's faster down.

For them, they want reliable, durable and comfortable. As an amateur way back when (lowly cat 4), we weren't obsessed with weight, except our own weight. We took our cues from the mechanics and coaches. Of course, at that time, there really wasn't a whole lot of weight variation anyway unless you had something crazy, like titanium which NO ONE could afford.

Reality, what a concept.

[Bob Loblaw]

I have 2 bikes with Campy 10 and one with Force 10. Force 10 came on the bike....but I switched wheels, and am using nucleons and the sram shifts perfectly on the campy cassette.

Really? That's interesting.


Back to the shifters, Campy stuff seems to be stronger and more precise, push, it goes. The double tap, etc, if one were needing an instant shift to pass or flee up a hill, seems a little casual.

I think you can attribute this to the SRAM cassettes. Something about their shift ramps makes them less responsive to shifts. I hate to throw away parts so I am riding a SRAM cassette on my Shimano bike till it wears out, but the shifting is definitely slower than it was with a Shimano cassette.

Also, the Force shifters are crumbling, but I did get it used...
Campy....

I like Campy and I like Shimano, but I dislike SRAM. In addition to the poorly designed cassettes, the shifter throw is too long for my liking, and if you are riding in your lightest gear and try to downshift, it UPshifts.

YMMV. Lots of people ride SRAM and like it. I am just not one of them.

BL

[Bob Loblaw]

Truer words was never spoke.

right. and let's not forget that no matter how much time or effort 4 pounds might save you, its totally lost if a mechanical during a race requires you to get a wheel or bike change out, that time is hard to recover.

the fastest bike is the one that doesn't break as far as long distance racing is converned i would think.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

"Click, click, boom" Exactly. Another thing about SRAM, which is prone to debate, is the aesthetics. IMO, it looks cheap, especially the calipers.

[ultratoad]

I started with Dura Ace and ran it for years-- good stuff. Curious to try SRAM Red and was pretty impressed--except for the noise. So it was logical that I try Campy to complete the Trifecta--Record 10 at first. Then onto SuperRecord 11-- the smoothest, quietest and prettiest stuff on Earth. Just my final opinion....

[uber]

Thanks to all for your responses. After riding Campy 10 for about ten years, I did decide to try SRAM Red (black) on my new bike. Bottom line is the shifting is immediate, and works better from the drops. If money were not an object, I would have probably stayed with SR. For the price difference, getting a lighter American product- not a bad choice. SRAM has superb customer service. A bit noisier than SR, but quieter than the original Red. Like it.

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks to all for your responses. After riding Campy 10 for about ten years, I did decide to try SRAM Red (black) on my new bike. Bottom line is the shifting is immediate, and works better from the drops. If money were not an object, I would have probably stayed with SR. For the price difference, getting a lighter American product- not a bad choice. SRAM has superb customer service. A bit noisier than SR, but quieter than the original Red. Like it.

Oh well, but SR is lighter than Sram Red(black?yellow?) and altho an American company, nothing sram is made in the US...most if not all in Asia. Certainly not an American product.

[christian]

if you are riding in your lightest gear and try to downshift, it UPshifts.REALLY? That seems like a massively bad design flaw.

[fourflys]

REALLY? That seems like a massively bad design flaw.

I don't find that to be true... if I'm riding in my easiest gear and try to find an easier gear, it just stays put on my Sram...

I recently switched from Campy 11 to Sram and like it... not saying it's better than Campy, just that I like it just the same... the doubletap is different than the Campy thumb shifter, but I actually like it... just took a ride or two to get used to it... the ergos on the hoods fit my hands great, the Campy 11 ergos felt really nice as well, just a little long for me... I despised the Campy 10 hoods that were on my cross bike...

to each their own, thankfully there are plenty of choices for everyone...

[dana_e]

set up with 10 speed campy shifters and rear mech

but had a shimano nine speed cogset and I assume chain

I have not tried this but I suppose it works

I have tried campy nine on shimano eight cogset and worked great

I took it to Nice and did hills on it.

anyway, I prefer campy

the new hood shape does not get a lot of write up

but I thnkit is the best.

Thanks DANA

Oh yeah, see all y'all in Sacto for NAHBS next year. I am super psyched.