Repainting

[tailingloop]

I have a late '80s Colnago Master that needs a repaint. I'm thinking about getting some estimates from autobody shops. Has anyone gone this route? Positive outcome? Overall less expensive than a frame builder/refinisher?

[dbh]

I wouldn't do it. If you're not worried about resale value and just need a new finish, look at a powdercoater.

[Bauch]

I agree that this is not a good idea.

My father has had 3 bikes repainted by Joe Bell and the man just does amazing work. It is well worth the time and money to go with an expert.

[David Kirk]

I've seen good results and some very bad results.

There are two issues that come to mind. Autobody guys are used to spraying large flatish panels not tubes and the nooks and crannies one sees on a bike. Getting paint into the backside of the BB for instance without overloading the stays takes real practice. It's not impossible of course but they aren't used to it.

The other issue is that a car guy may not know what, where, and how to mask. I've seen BB's so full of paint that they need to be ground out before one can run in some taps to clean out the threads.

I'd talk to the painter with the frame in hand and run these, and any other, issues, by them. If they don't feel confident then you should walk away.

Best of luck,

dave

[AngryScientist]

i agree that it would really be dependent on the person who's painting it. i would want to talk with them ahead of time and go over the details and their experience level.

i would pass if it's the first frame they're trying to paint, or if they just fluff you off about the details.

[Nil Else]

I'm interested in getting one of mine redone too at some point but from what I've seen so far, I don't like respayed Nags much (you can generally tell) unless, obviously, done by Colnago themselves. You used to be able to order choice of paint scheme on new frames and repaint from them before but I'm not sure whether they do that anymore. Plain color 80s Nag I would be a different matter though.

[soulspinner]

I did it but knew the shop could handle it. Straight base/clear on steel and they did a good job. They charged 150 and were doing quite a few bikes last I knew.

[Mr. Squirrel]

motorcycles are too fast for me...and they do not have quick releases. i have seen some very nice paint jobs on motorcycles. i may be nuts but the frames are very similar.

mr. squirrel

[old_fat_and_slow]

Another (potential) reason to go with an experienced bike painter, is that they have access to decal dealers that I don't think an automotive painter would know about. But if you're not interested in making it look original, then this is a non-issue. O' course you might be able to pick up some of the decals needed on the bay, but some have commented that unless the decals are NOS, some are not the greatest quality.


YMMV

[Fixed]

I have a late '80s Colnago Master that needs a repaint. I'm thinking about getting some estimates from autobody shops. Has anyone gone this route? Positive outcome? Overall less expensive than a frame builder/refinisher?
how bad is it ?
sometime a few scraps are like war wounds nothing to be ashamed of
imho cheers

[ultraman6970]

If you are in DC metro area i can paint it for you for the cost of the materials.

Repair shops usually do not take bikes because are f... hard to paint. Paint a bike is hard. As for the powder coating, that could work just fine but u get what u pay also.

How bad is it? Chroming ok?

[Idris Icabod]

I have a similar problem. My 1 year old barely ridden frame is developing cracks in the paint. The manufacturer has offered to pay for a repaint (I am assuming that a quality shop could just respray the cracked area). I don't think there is a bike painter locally but I do know that there is a fellow who does custom motorbike paint that I thought I would see if he would be interested in touching it up for me. Anyone know what a ball park cost would be or at lest hazard a guess? It seems rather strange to me that the company just doesn't just ask me to send the frame back and give me a new one since they acknowledged the problem and have gone from white to black in the areas that cracked on the 2011 version.

[tailingloop]

how bad is it ?
sometime a few scraps are like war wounds nothing to be ashamed of
imho cheers

The paint isn't too bad, but the original owner decided to sand down a large portion of the drive-side seat stay, thinking he would have the small dings filled and repainted at some point.

It's definitely beyond character building "scars."

[tailingloop]

If you are in DC metro area i can paint it for you for the cost of the materials.

Repair shops usually do not take bikes because are f... hard to paint. Paint a bike is hard. As for the powder coating, that could work just fine but u get what u pay also.

How bad is it? Chroming ok?

Thanks for the offer, but I'm in the other Washington (state). If anyone knows any respected frame painters out this way, let me know. Thanks!

[tailingloop]

I took the frame to a local autobody shop that does high end cars. They're the preferred shop for Ferrari and seemed to know what they were talking about. They also said they occasionally do bike frames. Anyway, they quoted me $982. After buying decals, that would put me well over $1,000. Ouch! Don't know if they quoted me high as their way to tell me to F off or not, but I was flabbergasted.

[biker72]

I took the frame to a local autobody shop that does high end cars. They're the preferred shop for Ferrari and seemed to know what they were talking about. They also said they occasionally do bike frames. Anyway, they quoted me $982. After buying decals, that would put me well over $1,000. Ouch! Don't know if they quoted me high as their way to tell me to F off or not, but I was flabbergasted.

I think they're telling you that they don't want your business. :D

[krhea]

Paint jobs do not have to cost an arm and a leg to get amazing results. Explore your options in painters as there are tons of good sprayers out there contrary to popular belief. While Joe Bell does some amazing work there are other "lesser" knowns who can spray with the best of them.

Here's a good example, my Colnago C40 before and after, total cost including custom decals...less than $500: Painted by Alan Wanta of Carlsbad, CA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/KRhea/Colnago%20C40/P1010552.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/KRhea/Colnago%20C40/P1010300.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/KRhea/Colnago%20C40/P1010302.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/KRhea/Colnago%20C40/P1010325.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/KRhea/Colnago%20C40/IMG_8620.jpg

[TimD]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to mine that's a real improvement. If I'm honest I'll admit I don't love the rear triangle in white but hey, it is your bike! :) Well done.

[avalonracing]

Quite an improvement! Just to not have to look down at that little rider on the top tube is an improvement but you went above and beyond.

[William]

Nice!! :cool:





William

[Doug Fattic]

Of the 3 primary skills involved in making a frame, (brazing, filing and painting), painting is the most difficult. Brazing requires a certain touch or feel to do it right but you can color a bit outside of the lines and be okay. Filing requires precise hand skills but it can be done slowly and carefully to minimize mistakes. An excellent paint job requires an exact touch with precise hand skills at speed. There is a pretty large learning curve to knowing how to paint small round tubes all connecting to each other making sure that: 1. It goes on thin enough so it doesn’t look thick like powder coating. 2. Yet it goes on thick enough to flow out smooth so it doesn’t have “orange peel”. 3. It goes on fast enough so you don’t get “overspray” (droplets of wet paint at the fringe of the spray pattern misting over on neighboring tubes where the skin on previously applied paint has already started to harden so it doesn’t flow out - the result is a dull or textured look.) The final clears requires the most skill of all.

Don’t expect even an experienced car painter to get the nuances of a bike frame right the first time. Usually they are painting a masked large flat panel with the paint gun set to a fan pattern. It doesn’t matter where they start and stop the paint flow (because it is on masking or space) as long as the trigger is fully on when it is passing over the panel. A bike frame requires much more precise gun control because you don’t want any paint hitting neighboring tubes. I’ve worked out a very specific pattern to minimize overspray and orange peel, etc. Proper paint application combines adjusting the paint volume, the speed of motion, and the distance from frame making sure that the start/stops are precise with the gun having to be in motion when the trigger is pulled to start the flow of paint at those exact spots. Good luck finding a guy that will get all that right without a lot of experience. Car guys get to use big buffing wheels to polish out any mistakes – something that can’t be done on small round intersecting tubes. On the other hand if they paint some frames they will get it but not likely on the first one.

I’ll mention a couple of other things involving costs. At the end of the year, when I divide my total paint materials cost by the number of frames I’ve painted it comes out to approximately $100 per frame. And that isn’t including any shop overhead costs. Of course certain requested colors only use a small portion of a can so lots of paint can be left over.

And something else about a really good frame paint job. There is a lot of sanding and other preparation involved. A second color and decals can add a lot of complexity. It can easily take several days work for just one frame. And finally I’d like to mention I’m not wanting any requests for information about my paint work (unless you live close by). I mostly teach framebuilding classes (and occasionally painting classes) and what little time is left over for painting I use on Doug Fattic frames that have come back for reconditioning or student’s frames.

[firerescuefin]

Kevin...love the Colnago..and the white stays. How's that new Wanta rain bike working for you.

Geoff

[wasfast]

You didn't state the original motivation for wanting to use an auto body shop for the respray. I suspect you're thinking you can save money. Doug's response sums up the key points nicely, especialy the difference in skills. Body shops spray similar 2 stage materials but the application is far different on a bike frame.

Ultimately, there's a sliding scale of cost vs quality. Where your own expectations lie along that scale is hard to determine. If you just want it a color, you can rattle can it. The durability will be crap but it will be painted. You can powdercoat it, you can wet coat it. You can have 5 different colors with custom decals, multiple clearcoats to fully level the surface.

My own experience matches what Doug said on materials so getting a wet coat, single color for less than around $200 isn't going to happen through any normal commerical channels (auto or bike frame painters). Add decals, multiple colors, pinstriping, lug outlining etc and you can see it adds up fast. There aren't any automated shortcuts on these things, it's pretty much all hand labor and thus time=$'s.

I've always though "painting" was a misnomer. It should be called "prep for coating" or "sanding" as 90% of the work is other than spraying pretty colors on the item.

Cyclart has a description of the various levels (categories) of paint on this page:

http://cyclart.com/custompaint.html

Joe Bell has a step by step set of images on campyonly.com as well.

[soulspinner]

Awesome Colnago repaint :hello:

[Nil Else]

I personally like looking at the little rider guy dude on TT.

I like the 1st art deco job... looks almost too good. The 2nd one, to me, is, though really beautifully done, not a Colnago Colnago, if you know what I mean.

When I got my first Colnago, after lusting for one a long time, I was actually a bit disappointed having inspected my own in close up at the every detail of the paint job... but after a few more Nags I came to know that Colnago paint jobs have certain lazy(?), seemingly careless flair to them... it is, seems to me, the Ernesto's/Italian attitude of 'this is how we do it, period' quality. No two are exactly the same but, as anyone who's owned them would know, they all share the same 'imperfect/loose interpretation' qualities of Colnago's own (I know some were sprayed in other European locations). They don't look perfect as far as even paint opacity, overlaps and masking jobs etc (I'm talking about their colorful paint schemes of some 2 decades, and not the current "new" ones). These are the quality that identifies the real Colnago paint job versus others, to me. Not sure whether I'd go as far as calling them "Art" (I've heard of this notion before) but I come to appreciate the imperfect and individual Colnago paints now and that's how I identify the real "Colnago"-ness. My Nags feel more individual to me, a lot more so than others mass marketed Euro bikes I have (most others have quite mechanical graphics).

[ultraman6970]

I been learning how to paint for a couple of years already and paint a darn bike is hard, the main problem is that all the polishing and sanding needs to be done by hand. Paint a door or a hood is piece of cake compared to a steel bike. Any paint problems in a car are easy to fix in a bike or motorcycle frame darn! So doesnt surprise me the price at all.

Joe bell charges way more for example.

Paint carbon is easier because u have more surface so less chances to screw up. One day got a 50 bucks powder coating job, was ok but darn, u get what u pay for, had to peel the frame and paint it myself to get the quality i wanted.


I took the frame to a local autobody shop that does high end cars. They're the preferred shop for Ferrari and seemed to know what they were talking about. They also said they occasionally do bike frames. Anyway, they quoted me $982. After buying decals, that would put me well over $1,000. Ouch! Don't know if they quoted me high as their way to tell me to F off or not, but I was flabbergasted.

[katematt]

Spectrum PW in Colorado does very nice powder coating work and will have decals for said frame. It's not Joe Bell, but they do a nice job and it is very durable. Box it up and send it and you'll still come in well below the autoshop mentioned above.

[JohnHemlock]

Allan Wanta does nice repaints for a good price on stuff like that. He is in California, though, not Washington.

[mgd]

chris kvale's a good painter, too.

[tailingloop]

You didn't state the original motivation for wanting to use an auto body shop for the respray. I suspect you're thinking you can save money. Doug's response sums up the key points nicely, especialy the difference in skills. Body shops spray similar 2 stage materials but the application is far different on a bike frame.

Ultimately, there's a sliding scale of cost vs quality. Where your own expectations lie along that scale is hard to determine. If you just want it a color, you can rattle can it. The durability will be crap but it will be painted. You can powdercoat it, you can wet coat it. You can have 5 different colors with custom decals, multiple clearcoats to fully level the surface.

My own experience matches what Doug said on materials so getting a wet coat, single color for less than around $200 isn't going to happen through any normal commerical channels (auto or bike frame painters). Add decals, multiple colors, pinstriping, lug outlining etc and you can see it adds up fast. There aren't any automated shortcuts on these things, it's pretty much all hand labor and thus time=$'s.

I've always though "painting" was a misnomer. It should be called "prep for coating" or "sanding" as 90% of the work is other than spraying pretty colors on the item.

Cyclart has a description of the various levels (categories) of paint on this page:

http://cyclart.com/custompaint.html

Joe Bell has a step by step set of images on campyonly.com as well.

Yes, the original motivation was to save a few coins, but based on everyone's feedback, I think I'll go with a frame painter. Thanks for the Cyclart referral. I'll be moving down to S. CA early next month and will give them a call.

[tailingloop]

Allan Wanta does nice repaints for a good price on stuff like that. He is in California, though, not Washington.

Thanks for the referral. I'll give Allan a call as well. As I mentioned, I'm moving to Orange County next month, so he's not too far away. When I get it done, I'll post before and after pics.

[fishbolish]

One issue that was not addressed was the removal of the old paint..... most body shops will usually sandblast the frame/or have it chemically dipped...which done wrong can compromise the frameset.( which is a discussion i had with ben serotta a while back concerning the warranty being void if not done by serotta)
I paint bikes from time to time...& have painted a few colnagos over the years..
you have to decide what the intended purpose is for your colnago...as a show piece ,as a rider, or a nice beater, & figure out how much you want to spend accordingly.....
There are a lot of good bike painters out there....they know the nuances of painting a bike ( removing the old paint correctly,proper prep work,masking,decal installation....etc.)

fyi...I sent my 20th anniversary to serotta to repaint ( instead of doing it myself)..& what I got back... was spectacular