Pegoretti:Duende or Marcelo

[sjbraun]

Like many of you, I've lusted after Dario's frames. A newly opened bike shop is now carrying them . I have to say that they look even better in person than on the 'net. (Dang, the Big Leg Emma is an impressive thing!)
I've read the archives and seen all the web sites Google could find.
What I'm wondering is if any of you have experience with both the Duende and Marcelo.? How do the frames compare? What swayed you to purchase one in place of the other?

I'm a recreational rider, no racing, like steel and ride roughly 4,000 miles a year. I'm looking for a bike that will climb well, but that will descend even better. I seem to be more interested in longer rides lately, so a frame that's comfortable after 4 hours is a must.
One review of the Marcelo describes it as a bike that will meet all these needs, yet others claim the Duende is the frame designed for the type of riding I do.

So, folks, if you would, weigh in with your opinions.

Steve Braun
Tucson

[RichMc]

I have just put a Marcelo on the road and was about to post a ride report and pictures as soon as I can tone down the white sensitivity on the digital camera.

The Marcelo is a bad dude. It definitely likes to be ridden hard and has great characteristics when ridden that way. A plush ride is not one of it's strong points. If I were to buy a new Pegoretti I would lean towards the Duende. The Marcelo ride, while somewhat harsh, is only borderline objectionable most of the time. It is objectionable over lots of rapid fire high amplitude bumps so beware. On the plus side, it handles great and loves to accelerate. I may keep mine a while 'cause I have a weakness for rare, high strung Italian stuff. Plus I have a Ti bike for long, long rides.

[Climb01742]

i have a marcelo, but have never ridden a duende. i believe the duende is designed to be a mellower ride, with a bit more forgiving rear triangle. a bike's ride is always very subjective and personal. i love my marcelo. i would describe its ride more positively than rich does. but one point i think needs to be made upfront. it doesn't possess the classic ride of steel. it's far better! :D the jerk once said that dario's steel frames ride more like alu, and his alu frames ride more like steel. i find this is true. a marcelo is fast. every bit of energy you put into the bike is transferred into forward movement. it isn't buttery smooth. but i'd say it is smooth. in my experience, other steel bikes are smoother, more forgiving...but achieve that by being more sluggish, less quick. a marcelo jumps like a great alu frame. but i'd be very happy to ride one all day. for me, the performance you gain far outweighs the slight comfort you give up. it is a steel race bike. i find it stable, very predictable, descends straight and true, and is just an out and out joy to ride. that said, if you seek perhaps a bit more comfort and a bit less get up and go, a duende may be a better choice. i have ridden and owned a lot of pegs. i am a HUGE fan. everyone should own one. dario is a genius. that said, they are what they are. dario's background is building race bikes. to me that means bikes built to go fast, first and foremost. yes, they may be a bit -- but just a bit -- less "soft" than other bikes. but to me that is their beauty. i've come to the conclusion that, for me, if i could only ride bikes built by one person for the rest of my riding days, i could very very happily ride pegorettis forever. they are, i believe, one definition -- and there are others -- of riding perfection. for me, someone who isn't a big fan of steel, to feel this way is a testiment to dario's genius.

[RichMc]

Climb,

Don't get me wrong! I appreciate the ride of my Marcelo a whole bunch. I just don't gush as much. ;) It's not as smooth as Ti, for sure, but the tradeoff of handling and, especially, acceleration more than makes up for it. It is a serious machine and should be respected as such. I can only imagine the ride of a Big Leg Emma. I just think the Marcelo appeals to a certain type of person. If long rides and comfort are a greater priority than speed and handling then I would recommend the Duende. That is, unless, the person has a penchant for something a little exotic and Italian with a pretty darn good stock fit. :banana: I'll post photos soon.

[Climb01742]

rich, no worries, pal. your take is quite truthful. ti is smoother, more plush. other steels are too. a marcelo just strikes a different balance. and yep, a duende is, i'm sure, a bit more comfy. i look forward to your report and pix. enjoy!!

[kenyee]

And the inevitable question: How do they compare to a stock CSI? :-)

[sjbraun]

Ah the temptation of speed, just think how fast I might be on a Marcelo?
No wait, reality must seep into my cycling fantasy. I ride three days a week as a recreational rider. But, would a nod toward comfort be admission that any gonzo, speed demon dreams are just that?
I could just drive myself nuts obsessing about all this.
Humor aside, I ride two steel frames, both Waterfords. One is an older 531 Reynolds frame built up as a fixed gear. It is amazingly smooth. One of those "Is my rear tire flat?" kind of rides. My geared Waterford is a Reynolds 753 frame, snappy, not as plush, but still comfortable for long rides. The other bike I'm familiar with is a Easton Elite AL Fuji team. This frame lacks the springy snap of steel, but accelerates like a rocket.
The Marcelo appeals to me because it seems to offer the best of both worlds, stiff bottom bracket acceleration with the ride of a steel frame. I don't know if the Duende would offer the same stiffness.
Would any of you be able to offer ride comparisons between the Pegs and Waterford's wares?

Steve- so much pondering

[Climb01742]

steve, a forum member named dbrk is exceptionally knowledgeable about many bikes, but perhaps particularly so about steel. perhaps PM douglas? he is generous with his knowledge. he may be able to offer the comparisons you seek. good luck!


ps: get the marcelo! :D

[RichMc]

Then there's Matt Barkley. He got a Duende in the first part of April. After showing us some pictures of the frame he has not gotten back to us with the finished bike photos or a ride report. Maybe Matt's too busy riding but he's another potential source of information.

[Andreu]

Marcelo.....I honestly don't think you would have any confort problems on it over long hauls if you are set up right....just my 2 centimes worth.
A
By the way, the Marcelo is the best descending bike I have ever ridden. It climbs good too - it is not the lightest bike around but I can keep up and sometimes accelerate away from guys who are on very very light bikes. The bike just wants to go fast. On the flat (not really my terrain) it responds to any change in pace and enables me to suck wheels and even get across gaps occasionally.
Enjoy whatever you get!

[Climb01742]

somehow dario makes the weight of the frame irrelevent. his frames aren't feathers, yet they fly. go figure.

[e-RICHIE]

somehow dario makes the weight of the frame irrelevent.


yeah what he makes.

[Fixed]

yeah what e-Richie said cos he's the man.(5 days of rain all my shoes are soaked)I am just a bike messenger who loves art.

[e-RICHIE]

yeah what e-Richie said cos he's the man.(5 days of rain all my shoes are soaked)I am just a bike messenger who loves art.


touche.
if it's not Fixed, it ain't broken.

see ya'...
goin' bikin' now.

[TimD]

The Marcelo rules. I second Climb's and Andreu's comments - fast, excellent handling, and absolutely rock-solid downhill at speeds approaching 50 MPH (yeah, the jerk rides his small ring at 50 MPH, but he's just cooler than me :))

As for the ride, after riding a few other bikes this winter, the first 30 seconds back on in March told me what I already knew - the rear is very solid. In a sprint exercise the bars will move about a bit, but that's probably the stack height and the leverage provided by my 36" sleeve length as much as anything else. With an Ouzo Pro, 28-spoke DT Swiss R1.1 wheels, 14g/15g spokes, and Michelin Pro Race @ 100 psi the ride is smooth and well-damped yet still springy, certainly less jarring than my OS Legend Ti on low-end Ksyriums with the same tires.

It's a great bike. I cannot comment on the Duende but that's probably great too...

Let us know what you choose.

[round]

touche.
if it's not Fixed, it ain't broken.

see ya'...
goin' bikin' now.

Ciao Riccardo,
I quickly need 5 lessons of slang!
when you are available?
naturally in Chester , Connecticut and Massachusset are beautiful places !
Come back to home ,a couple of hours of sleep are necessary,
marvelous dinner last night in Verona and the valpolicella of Romano dal Forno is one of the greatest wines, each should drink a glass of it, great experience!
nice day to everybody.
Dario

[hypnos]

Okay.... what seatposts will fit in a Pegoretti? Thomson makes a 29.4mm post. Does anyone else?

Oh, BTW, I had a chance to ride DBRK's Big Leg Emma last weekend. This was the first stock frame that really fit well. I think Pegoretti's long HT and slack STA did the trick. Although the Big Leg Emma is over built for this non-racer, the ride was terrific.

Jeff

[dbrk]

I was burning a collection of Pastorius this morning, thinking of "round," our mutual admiration for this great artist, and imagining the pink Pastorius-scheme GGM that I hope appears this year some time.

I've owned or ridden extensively the Fina, Marcelo, Palosanto, Luigino, and Big Legged Emma. Materials notwithstanding, a ride is far more a matter of design and components (I mean, wheels especially). Usually I would rather have the option of different designs rather than a single builder's design in multiple materials but my principal exception to this is Pegoretti. With Dario's bikes the ride is so superb and the differences so subtle but pronounced that, well, I would like to have one of each. I think my favorite is the Luigino but Dario went out of his way for me on this one and it is lugged, after all.

If it were between Marcelo and Duende, I likely get the Duende because a little more comfort and less cost would make it ideal. The Marcelo is the singular ride for the mix of performance and comfort. The Fina gives up a little comfort---but very, very little, the only aluminum bike I have ever loved---but it's a rocket off the line. Emma is a thing of beauty and on one day she seems all racer and the next much more forgiving: an exceptional climber, this bike tears up hills and I am a slaggard, a stone. The Palosanto is pure pleasure and the skinnier tubes present slightly less pallette for those amazing Pegoretti paint jobs. After all, no one has the design imagination of Pegoretti when it comes to paint. I ordered the GGM for shorter rides and, honestly, to have a Pastorius paint job. Pegoretti is the place where the ride matches the art every time. Round tubes, no slopers, but modern OS tubes, these bikes should inspire any one who wants a contemporary look and a fantastic ride no matter the model.

dbrk

[Andreu]

http://www.wrcompositi.it/ing/index.asp?pag=prodotti
A :beer:

[e-RICHIE]

Ciao Riccardo,
I quickly need 5 lessons of slang!
when you are available?
naturally in Chester , Connecticut and Massachusset are beautiful places !
Come back to home ,a couple of hours of sleep are necessary,
marvelous dinner last night in Verona and the valpolicella of Romano dal Forno is one of the greatest wines, each should drink a glass of it, great experience!
nice day to everybody.
Dario


buddy-issimo!
good to hear from you.
i'm beaming this from the minds of minolta.
'back at dinner time.
ciao!
e-RICARDO

[hypnos]

Thanks for the link. If only I could find a dealer in the USA. :crap:

[Climb01742]

jeff, seatpost shims also work.

[Climb01742]

dario,

a year from now (june 2006) do you think you will be in trento? would you mind a visitor? i'm planning my long-dreamed-of trip to italy, and meeting you would be wonderful.

and soon, you'll hear from brendan at competitive cyclist about a "special" project.

grazie,

climb

ps: i saw what was painted under the TT frame for NERAC. quite a surprise! senor jerk was kind enough to show me.

[amg]

Dear Steve,

I think the Duende would suit your needs best. Keep in mind that the Duende has the same main triangle diameters as the Marcelo, though the rear triangle in similar to the Palosanto. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the rear triangle diameters on the Duende are a bit larger than those on the Palosanto to better match the larger main triangle of the Duende. Even though the Duende is designed to give a bit more comfort than the Marcelo, the rear triangle of the Duende is still pretty beefy so I'm sure the Duende offers plenty of responsiveness and performance. I've seen a Duende up close, it's a very impressive frame! If you want soemthing a bit more biased towards performance and a bit more exotic, than go with the Marcelo, otherwise I think the Duende is an excellent choice.

Saluti,

Antonio :beer:

PS to all-around great guy, dbrk: A jazz musician friend of mine recently explained to me who Jaco Pastorius was how influential his electric bass playing was I recently listened to a good compelation of his work and I like it a lot! Great stuff!

Now I have to get a copy of the Weather Report album, 8:30am, to accompany my incoming frame! Happy, happy, joy, joy! :banana:

[Redturbo]

FSA makes a seat post 29.4. It's got a ton of set back.

turbo

[amg]

FSA makes a seat post 29.4. It's got a ton of set back.

turbo

FSA = Fully Sourced from Asia :p

Sorry, I just had to let that one out. :D

Antonio :beer:

[round]

dario,

a year from now (june 2006) do you think you will be in trento? would you mind a visitor? i'm planning my long-dreamed-of trip to italy, and meeting you would be wonderful.

and soon, you'll hear from brendan at competitive cyclist about a "special" project.

grazie,

climb

ps: i saw what was painted under the TT frame for NERAC. quite a surprise! senor jerk was kind enough to show me.



Ciao Climb,
sure ,you are welcome and you can stay with us all the time that you want, good food , wine and nice time will be with us ! ( beers box is required)
I don't hear nothing about special project from Brendan , let me know i am a little bit anxious,and curious !!!
Have a nice day and say hello to the Jerk and all the pegoretti fans in Boston
Dario

[michel2]

ciao steve,

did anybody asked you how big you are ?????

could be intresting in regards to frame youre choice ??

and seatpost wise:

a 27.2 ti moots post makes a big diference comfort wise !

cheers michel

[Matt Barkley]

Selcof makes a nice 29.4 too. WR is probably the nicest and hardest to get...... Yeah :beer: what everyone has said and how mucho do you weigho and your riding style? I got the Duende because a little more comfort and good value. Marcelo is more Pegoretti with the CNC'd dropouts - and as the knowledgeable AMG pointed out: same main triangle. Back to the Harp. :beer: - Matt

.....Oh Yeah - Pegorettis (Any of them - personaly ridden mucho' and raced: Buena Vista, Fina Estampa, CCKMP) descend better than ANYthang out there. 'Just passed over Mt. Tam and LaHona/Skyline in N.Cal. (Havn't ridden a Sachs... yet. Nor an Eisentrout..yet.... My old Serotta TG did fine in No.Cal for one season... even on the dirt)