Suggestions for improving bicycling might

[drewski]

At the risk of appearing coming off like a schmed here I go:

I have not had the desire to increase my overall speed
cycling but last night I had a change of spirit.

I was riding last night, and I felt puny like the guy in the really old
Charles Atlas cartoon who has sand kicked on my a bully at the beach
if you will. I have been involved in some experiences at work
and In my personal life and my peaceful warrior (like the book i am reading
by Dan Millman) side is in need of some minor victory in the area
of cycling. So I am reaching out to the forum for some of your
expert opinions

I was trying to keep with some pretty fit guys who were about 10 years younger and got dropped. Then a very fit female cyclist also dropped me.
Then I did another lap and got dropped by some older guys
riding carbon fiber bikes. I ride a Steel Axiom by Seven.

Other than training with Chris Carmichael or
getting and electric motor like the one Cancellara uses are there
any other best practices anyone can recommend?

I know I have to improve my overall VO2 threshold
and overall intensity. I am doing this more to challenge
myself. I am not under any dellusions that I am going
to keeping with the local alpha dogs. Just trying to not
be in the back of the back.

I ride year round but usually more for fun.
With work and family I probably only have 2 hours per day
for training and conditioning.

I have been going to spin classes for the last 6 months
and I would say that overall I have not gone more than 3 days
without doing a 60 minute stationary bicycle or road bike ride
since last September.

I commute by bicycle reguarly as well.

I ride a 58cm axiom by Seven but I do not use toe clips,
with a B-17 and Carradice bag.
Would switching to clipless and getting a good pair of shoes
be of value or is that a bunch of hype?

[benb]

Get some books and/or talk to a coach..

You could read Carmichael's book(s) but they're pretty fluffy.. you might try the Cyclists Training Bible.. even if that is not the methodology you end up using it's a solid intro to periodized training and he does a great job of explaining just how much of a time commitment is needed to get to a certain level of performance in cycling.

Join a real racing club.. even if you're not going to race hanging out with those guys will teach you real skills.. recreational groups are so disorganized you can ride with them for years and not learn much at all.

[JMerring]

one thing will make you faster - intervals. they suck, they hurt, i hate doing them. BUT, they work.

[firerescuefin]

"Would switching to clipless and getting a good pair of shoes
be of value or is that a bunch of hype?"

Yes...buy these.

Riding with faster riders more often. You mentioned Carmichael. His Time Crunched Cyclist book is excellent. I know from prior post that you have a lot going on and it's aimed specifically at guys like you....and me.

[EDS]

At the risk of appearing coming off like a schmed here I go:

I have not had the desire to increase my overall speed
cycling but last night I had a change of spirit.

I was riding last night, and I felt puny like the guy in the really old
Charles Atlas cartoon who has sand kicked on my a bully at the beach
if you will. I have been involved in some experiences at work
and In my personal life and my peaceful warrior (like the book i am reading
by Dan Millman) side is in need of some minor victory in the area
of cycling. So I am reaching out to the forum for some of your
expert opinions

I was trying to keep with some pretty fit guys who were about 10 years younger and got dropped. Then a very fit female cyclist also dropped me.
Then I did another lap and got dropped by some older guys
riding carbon fiber bikes. I ride a Steel Axiom by Seven.

Other than training with Chris Carmichael or
getting and electric motor like the one Cancellara uses are there
any other best practices anyone can recommend?

I know I have to improve my overall VO2 threshold
and overall intensity. I am doing this more to challenge
myself. I am not under any dellusions that I am going
to keeping with the local alpha dogs. Just trying to not
be in the back of the back.

I ride year round but usually more for fun.
With work and family I probably only have 2 hours per day
for training and conditioning.

I have been going to spin classes for the last 6 months
and I would say that overall I have not gone more than 3 days
without doing a 60 minute stationary bicycle or road bike ride
since last September.

I commute by bicycle reguarly as well.

I ride a 58cm axiom by Seven but I do not use toe clips,
with a B-17 and Carradice bag.
Would switching to clipless and getting a good pair of shoes
be of value or is that a bunch of hype?

If you are not using toe clips and not using clipless pedals what are you using, flats and sneakers?

[false_Aest]

1) invest in shoes and pedals (if you're using platforms and sneakers)
2) learn to ride properly with those shoes ... muscle memory.
3) log a good amount of base miles.
4) ride with fast people. get dropped. try to get back on.
5) intervals... i favor longer ones (2x20s two times a week have helped me)

[ultraman6970]

the best way to learn pedaling technique is doing fix gear for at least 2 months.

[old_fat_and_slow]

Then a very fit female cyclist also dropped me.


Ouch ! When you are a man, with normal levels of testosterone, and a typical male ego, getting "chicked" always hurts.

Gettin' old, fat, and slow sucks. I feel for yah. I'm there man.

[Pete Serotta]

Invest in shoes that clip for they increase your efficiency, Pilates and weight training also help. Do not know if you are over weight but if so target a 10 lb weight loss over the next three months. Interval climbing/training and riding with others faster than you can increase your speed. An inexpensive heart rate monitor lets me know when I am working hard and when I am just lazy.


Lastly when the above gets done, bike fit and wheels can have an effect on the spurts of riding.... A trainer will also help you, and/or reading some of the books.

I am more a fan of training with a person and not as Chis Carmichael does over the web, Training is wonderful with a group on a ride.....Paule has a very good trainer in NY/PA area

[BillG]

1) invest in shoes and pedals (if you're using platforms and sneakers)
2) learn to ride properly with those shoes ... muscle memory.
3) log a good amount of base miles.
4) ride with fast people. get dropped. try to get back on.
5) intervals... i favor longer ones (2x20s two times a week have helped me)


All good, plus mix up the threshold intervals (2X20, 3X15, 3x10) and throw in a few short intervals (30 seconds to 1 minute).

[false_Aest]

FWIW,

I'm making a lot more progress doing my intervals on a trainer than I was doing them on the road.


The benefits for me:

1) no traffic, lights, delays a 15 min warm up is a 15 min warm up
2) consistent resistance = better wattage targets
3) it really sucks to be in mid interval only to hit a light or run out of road... that's never the case with a trainer
4) finally, when you're done you're 3/4 of the way to the shower.

[93legendti]

one thing will make you faster - intervals. they suck, they hurt, i hate doing them. BUT, they work.
absolutely...hurt like hell, but effective.

I'd add base training and form/pedal stroke work as important steps before intervals.

[firerescuefin]

Just reading over the replies (good info), Drew needs to assess how much time and effort he has/is willing to comit. A 40 year old with 3 young kids is probably not going to have the same motivation/time as 29 year old in grad school.

[false_Aest]

one more note . . . then I'm done with this thread.

You can't work on pedal stroke or do decent intervals w/out the right shoes/pedals.

and

YOU NEED TO HAVE A MILES IN YOUR LEGS BEFORE YOU DO INTERVALS.

Not necessarily 2000 miles but that certainly won't hurt.

[Peter P.]

You do NOT need 2 hours a day. You need only 1 hour a day; longer rides on the weekends if you wish.

You do not need to ride every day. Alternate riding with a weight lifting program SPECIFICALLY FOR CYCLISTS, and days off.

You need to create a training program and stick to it; BELIEVE IN IT, for an entire year. Start a training diary. You do NOT need a heart rate monitor or power meter, either.

The way you'll track your progress is by creating your own little time trial course that takes 30-60 minutes to complete. You will chart your times so you can see whether your training is working.

You need to grab a number of books to help formulate your program. I recommend:

Base Building for Cyclists by Thomas Chapple

The Cyclist's Training Bible by Joe Friel

Weight Training for Cyclists by Schmitz and Doyle

I'm not an equipment geek but I will agree; go ahead and switch to clipless pedals. Ditch the Carradice bag, at least on group rides. You definitely don't need a new bike.

You'll have more fun believing in and following the program you create, and charting your improvement, and you'll swell with pride when you realize you did it all by yourself.

[chuckred]

At the risk of appearing coming off like a schmed here I go:

I have been going to spin classes for the last 6 months?

Don't underestimate the values of these classes for intervals - don't be shy about using the resistance knob. When you're supposed to go hard, go really hard. When you're supposed to recover, go really easy. An hour of intervals a couple times a week should help you ramp up your speed!

[Frankwurst]

Intervals again. I have'nt done'em in 15 years and if I go another 15 without doing them I'll be fine, but they will provide you with what your looking for. :beer:

[johnmdesigner]

Ouch ! When you are man, with normal levels of testosterone, and a typical male ego, getting "chicked" always hurts.

Gettin' old, fat, and slow sucks. I feel for yah. I'm there man.

I love getting clipped by the girls and not for the view. When the ladies Lipton team used to ride in my area I always tried to hang on. They always kicked my ass. They were the most even consistent riders I had ever seen. I learned more from them then I ever learned from their male counterparts.

[toaster]

I see you are reading Peaceful Warrior and there's even some wisdom to be found in that book that could apply to your cycling ambitions.

Like instead of "training" for improvement try practicing your cycling instead. Meaning, what may surface for you is the perfect way in which everything makes sense to you from your pedal stroke to each single breath and those moments of calmness where you find your greatest strength.

In order to go faster your body and your brain must experience the pain and stress that is a result of hard effort. Love how that feels and let it become part of your body's memory. You'll be able to do it better each time and can even reach further inside yourself as you continue to practice.

[BillG]

Love how that feels and let it become part of your body's memory.

Love intervals? You're not doing them hard enough.
They hurt, they are not pleasant. But they make you faster. And they are awful enough that you forget just how bad they are until you do them again. That's the saving grace.

[bikinchris]

You do NOT need 2 hours a day. You need only 1 hour a day; longer rides on the weekends if you wish.

You do not need to ride every day. Alternate riding with a weight lifting program SPECIFICALLY FOR CYCLISTS, and days off.

You need to create a training program and stick to it; BELIEVE IN IT, for an entire year. Start a training diary. You do NOT need a heart rate monitor or power meter, either.

The way you'll track your progress is by creating your own little time trial course that takes 30-60 minutes to complete. You will chart your times so you can see whether your training is working.

You need to grab a number of books to help formulate your program. I recommend:

Base Building for Cyclists by Thomas Chapple

The Cyclist's Training Bible by Joe Friel

Weight Training for Cyclists by Schmatz and Doyle

I'm not an equipment geek but I will agree; go ahead and switch to clipless pedals. Ditch the Carradice bag, at least on group rides. You definitely don't need a new bike.

You'll have more fun believing in and following the program you create, and charting your improvement, and you'll swell with pride when you realize you did it all by yourself.

Best post so far with good advice.

If you have 14 hours per week, that is enough to get in some sort of decent shape. You don't want to maximize you fitness, so you don't need to do intervals until they are as painful as some of these guys are talking about. But you do need to make a real effort. Working one good day a week on anerobic threshold, one day a week work on speed intervals, and one day a week work on strength intervals. You are not specializing as a crit riders, climber or time trialist, so you can work on all three evenly, to gain fitness and just plain go faster. The other four days of the week would be days you can use to to do recovery rides and maybe ride with slower riders and visit or like the post above, just don't ride and do some other kind of workout.

Yes get some good cycling shoes and pedals. You don't need to get racing shoes that make you walk like a duck. Maybe Frog pedals and good stiff mountain bike shoes.
I also second the training diary. Get a college ruled notebook and you can seperate the pages into seven sections, where you keep track of your rising heartrate, your standing heartrate and your resting heartrate. This will give you a good indication of the progress you are making. Also, keep track of the workouts you do, the amount and kind of food you eat and you will be able to figure out what works for you.

[flydhest]

You don't need anywhere near 14 hours a week if you are riding smart. I get in two mornings a week (two hours) plus two weekend rides (two to two and a half) and by mid to late race season am racing in3/4/masters fields, controlling the pack for teammates and chasing breaks, finishing in the pack and sometimes in the mix.

If I could train 14 hous a week . . . Wow.

My view is that if you are already riding regularly (as the OP says he is) then all he should be focusing on now is intervals when he rides alone. Shorter ones, two minutes on two minutes off. He will increase his power output and improve his recovery. That can't be static, of course, and getting some longer intervals in as well to get some periodicity will be good, but for the level of "I got my training advice from a chat room on the webbernet" do some shorter, intense intervals for a few weeks and check back.

[firerescuefin]

If I could train 14 hous a week . . . Wow.

I laughed when I read that (when it was suggested that is "all it would take", especially in context of the OP who just wants to keep up with group rides and not get "chicked" on a regular basis.

I echo your experience in local races. If I had 14 hours a week, I would be ripping people's legs off.

[rice rocket]

Just out of curiousity, what is an example of a cycling specific weight training regiment?

Honestly, I never want to have the physique of a cyclist; cycling is only a means to an end for me. My weight training is pretty well rounded, I try to hit all muscle groups equally.

[toaster]

Love intervals? You're not doing them hard enough.
They hurt, they are not pleasant. But they make you faster. And they are awful enough that you forget just how bad they are until you do them again. That's the saving grace.

Well, the trick is to do intervals not harder but faster.

[drewski]

If you are not using toe clips and not using clipless pedals what are you using, flats and sneakers?

Correction I do use toe clips. I meant to say i don't you clipless.
ADD moment. Again. What ? Who? You talkin to me.

[drewski]

Invest in shoes that clip for they increase your efficiency, Pilates and weight training also help. Do not know if you are over weight but if so target a 10 lb weight loss over the next three months. Interval climbing/training and riding with others faster than you can increase your speed. An inexpensive heart rate monitor lets me know when I am working hard and when I am just lazy.


Lastly when the above gets done, bike fit and wheels can have an effect on the spurts of riding.... A trainer will also help you, and/or reading some of the books.

I am more a fan of training with a person and not as Chis Carmichael does over the web, Training is wonderful with a group on a ride.....Paule has a very good trainer in NY/PA area


I am probably 15 lbs and counting over weight.
The last few weeks I have started to concentrate on eating smaller
meals more frequently. I have a bit habit of forgetting the electrolyte drinks.

I want to me more disciplined in my training so I am very grateful for the suggestions.
:) :hello:

In the spirit of trying to be less ego centric here
is a poem I came accross this morning. Seems appropriate to
share in this case. Its from the Book: The Essential Rumi translated by Coleman Barks. Ali In Battle

Learn from Ali how to fightwithout your ego
participating.
God's Lion did nothingthat didn't originate
from his
deep center.
Once in a battle he got the best of a certain knightand
quickly drew his sword.
The man, helpless on the ground, spatin Ali's
face.
Ali dropped his sword, relaxed, and helped the man to his
feet.

"Why have you spared me?
How has lightening contracted back into
its cloud? Speak, my prince,so that my soul can begin to stir in me
like an embryo."

Ali was quiet and then finally answered,


"I am God's
Lion, not the lion of passion.The sun is my lord.
I have no longing except for the One.
When a wind of personal reaction comes, I do
not go along with it.

There are many winds full of anger, and lust and
greed. They move the rubbish around, but the solid mountain of our
true nature stays where it's always been.
There's nothing now except the
divine qualitites.
Come through the opening into me. Your impudence was
better than any reverence, because in this moment I am you and you are
me.

I give you this opened heart as God gives gifts:
the poison of your spit has becomethe honey of friendship."


~Rumi and Coleman Barks



Time to work on the mountain....
Andrew

[zennmotion]

Truly poultry in motion :bike: Remember that free advice on an internet forum is a mixed bag, you get what you pay for. But don't overthink it. Read the through the Friel book but it's pretty tedious and overcomplicated for a first year racer, especially at master's age with a life. Get the basic gist of periodized training but don't get all caught up in testing, power meters, limiters etc- that can come later when it actually will make sense to you after a little experience in competition. Reality check- you're starting later in life and if you really want to compete on the road you really need more of a jump start than someone starting younger- wading through lots of written training advice can be overwhelming. You identified your personality as not a natural competitor (poetry? seriously?) so you first need to adopt the attitude of a competitor. In my un-credentialed opinion as a forever mediocre Cat 3 (sucking since 1979!) the most important thing is to seek support- (in real time, offline and on your bike). These things:

Invest in a local coach to help you identify some realistic goals and a basic simple uncomplicated program to get there. At least for a few months while you're on the steep part of the curve. Someone you trust and click with, with coaching creds more important than racing creds, someone who "gets" masters. Ask around the group rides for some suggestions- one of the best coaches I ever had was a woman who didn't even have much racing experience, but knew the game well from the sidelines and knew about training bodies and coaching minds.

Invest the time in finding the right team or group to ride with regularly. Guys (and women, drop the ego and the shame there Mr. Warrior!) who are faster than you but are supportive, friendly that you like hanging with on and off the bike- they will be your new friends and they will kick your ass into shape. Shop around-try a few different groups a few times if you can- the vibe can vary depending on who shows up- and beware this is a tough time of year to start because spring fever means hard rides in groups with mixed fitness. There's more than a few ego stuffed A-holes on some roadie rides sometimes. Hopefully they're they're tolerated without being controlling. A group with experienced masters usually has a few who know both the front and the back of the field very well. Sane, fast group riding will do more for you than structured intervals at this point. Once you've found your group, show up at the rides. Religiously, eff the rain, you are a competitor now and competitors show up in the rain. Schedule it as an appointment for you, not as an occasional afterthought "if you have time". Seriously. Just keep showing up and keep getting dropped. An sooner than you think, you won't get dropped. You might not really know this yet, but group riding skills is as important as your fitness in "keeping up". Intervals won't give you the second half of the equation. Do them in moderation as long as they are an enjoyable challenge. Intervals can also burn out a new athlete- they are hard and not fun. I've seen plenty of aspiring racers start out too hard with lots of complicated training plans and ambitions and then get frustrated and go back to day touring. Moderation and balance and keep it fun at all costs.

Get your clipless pedals, yes you need them. Get someone to help you make sure your bike is set up to fit you well for comfort and efficiency. Then forget about your bike. The guys on group rides always want to jabber on endlessly about their bikes (guilty as charged) new stuff is fun, sometimes useful, but in the end less "necessary" than you think. Your mention of your bike at all is telling- if it fits it's a great bike now stop thinking about it.

Last, go to bed early and eat healthy. Good luck!

[Bytesiz]

I agree with most of what is being said here, but one thing I want to emphasize is getting a consistent good night's sleep.

I got into the habit of getting only 6 hours of sleep for a long time. When I began training (instead of just riding) I quickly hit a plateau that I couldn't shake. I worked harder (or at least it felt harder) and got nowhere. After reading a training book (likely the Friel book) it talked about the importance of a good night's sleep. Last year I made a commitment to do that.

I now get a solid 8 hours of sleep each night. I feel better and I'm faster. If I run out of time in the day and I have to make a choice to train or sleep, I sleep.

Aaron

[BobbyJones]

In order to go faster your body and your brain must experience the pain and stress that is a result of hard effort. Love how that feels and let it become part of your body's memory. You'll be able to do it better each time and can even reach further inside yourself as you continue to practice.

This is probably the most important aspect of "getting faster". Most people just don't want to be uncomfortable during physical activity, yet that's when most improvements are made.

[Peter P.]

Just out of curiousity, what is an example of a cycling specific weight training regiment?

Honestly, I never want to have the physique of a cyclist; cycling is only a means to an end for me. My weight training is pretty well rounded, I try to hit all muscle groups equally.

All three books I mention in my earlier post have practically the same weightlifting program. These books SPECIFICALLY explain this is not a bodybuilding program, but a cycling program. While the focus is on the "prime mover" muscle groups in cycling, there also are exercises incorporated that hit all the body parts. You won't look like a scrawny fast guy with these programs. In general terms, they all look something like this:

Nov.-Dec.: Anatomical Adaptation Phase. 15-20 reps per set; maybe 1-3 sets. The idea is to acclimate the body to the stresses of weightlifting to come later on.

Jan.-Feb.: Maximum Strength Transition Phase. The reps reduce down to 10-12, 2-4 sets. The idea here is to increase the resistance. It is a transitional phase to the next phase.

Mar.-Apr.: Maximum Strength Phase. Reps are very low (6-8), and the rest period between sets is longer. 3-6 sets. The idea here is to maximize the development of power.

Apr.-Nov.: Strength Maintenance Phase. Reduced workload to keep the gains you made in the off season. If strength is a limiting factor for you, then you can incorporate some Maximum Strength workouts during the season, but not too many or you'll burn out or get stale.

Be flexible with how many weeks you spend in each phase, and when those phases start/end. Be flexible in the exercises you do if some cause you pain, or you lack the equipment. Maybe some exercises aren't your cup o' tea but others are; do those instead.

I put the info together from the three books and came up with a routine I can do with a set of adjustable dumbbells in my apartment. It was a great change of pace during the winter months and I look forward to incorporating the program into my in-season riding.

[bikinchris]

This is probably the most important aspect of "getting faster". Most people just don't want to be uncomfortable during physical activity, yet that's when most improvements are made.


That's true, but you left out one thing. You get better when you let your body RECOVER from the very hard effort. THAT is what many riders forget. They go too soft when they are supposed to be going hard and too hard when they are supposed to be going soft. You have to stress your body until it's response is to rebuild the damage to the muscles. Unless you are overtrained, it will always rebuild stronger than before.

[rugbysecondrow]

Just reading over the replies (good info), Drew needs to assess how much time and effort he has/is willing to comit. A 40 year old with 3 young kids is probably not going to have the same motivation/time as 29 year old in grad school.

Excellent Smithers. :)

We are not all racers, we are all not geared the same. You might be able to train for more speed, but you might still get dropped by folks. I have worked at getting faster, with the understanding that I am not a bike racer. I do some intervals, never shy away from hills nor repeating them. I make sure I have my training ride separate from my non-training ride. I strength train, this is important. I try to eat better, especially before a ride I care about. I pull my kids in the bike trailer...that will work your legs over.

Make training fun and you will train more often and more effectively.

Anyway, best of luck. Enjoy

Paul

[Fixed]

you want to get faster
motor pace
hit the gym
lose weight
cheers

[Ti Designs]

Not too long ago I was asked by a local newspaper (that's like the internet on paper) to write a list of tips for new riders. I told them it doesn't really work that way, they didn't understand that. So, I did a fitting on the guy writting the article, and went over everything - I mean everything. I told him that he would remember about 1/10th of what we went over. Then we went for a ride. When he focused on one thing he could do it, but pretty much forgot everything else. By the end of the ride he had figured out the shifting and no longer had to focus on it. That's just the way we learn.

So, little tidbits of advice are great, but what you really need is someone to be there a lot, who knows the sport and who's a good teacher or coach. You can often find these people on group rides, some people hire coaches...