Best tubular tires?

[akelman]

I'm considering trying tubulars. (Please feel free to welcome me to the club. Or tell me I'm an idiot. Whichever.) If I do, I'm told that I need tires. So what kind of tires should I get? And how should I attach them to the rims? Tape? Glue? The power of my mind? I'm sure there have been countless threads devoted to these questions, but I can't find them. Sorry. And thanks.

[akelman]

Oh, one more question: how long should I expect it to take me to attach a tire the first time or two? Again, I'm new to this game, so estimate high.

[bike22]

If you've never glued a tubular before it is worth it to pay someone to do it or have a knowledgeable friend show you how to do it.

[oliver1850]

.

[akelman]

Veloflex?

[Louis]

"Best" depends on the application.

If you're just trying them out for the first time, then I don't think you necessarily need "the best." A decent, reasonably priced, pair of tires should be good enough for a first try.

[akelman]

Also, thanks!

[akelman]

If you're just trying them out for the first time, then I don't think you necessarily need "the best." A decent, reasonably priced, pair of tires should be good enough for a first try.

This is a great point, Louis. But I also want to try something decent enough that I'll give tubulars a fair shake.

[oliver1850]

.

[bike22]

tubular tires for what?

cross racing?
road racing?
road riding?
dirt roads?

none of the above?

[akelman]

Road riding. Also, thanks to Oliver1850, I just found this thread (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=80135&highlight=continental+sprinter), which seems to have a bunch of good information in it.

[Louis]

I'll be interested in seeing what you end up doing for attachment choices. I have a pair of Conti's (can't remember the exact model), a pair of stretching rims, two tubes of Continental glue, some flux brushes, and some Mavic Reflex wheels, but in part because I've never done it before, I've been holding off on actually gluing them.

I'm tempted to just get some Tufo extreme tape and be done with it, but haven't because a) folks have told me that glue is better for at least one reason - it's easier to remove a flat tire and install a spare, and b) it really is the "tried and true" way of doing it.

If gluing were a one-shot deal then I would ask somebody who knows how to do it to show me by demonstrating on mine, but given that apparently the best way to do it is a multiple-day process, that's not a practical option.

Net result, I still haven't tried them.

[akelman]

I'll be interested in seeing what you end up doing for attachment choices. I have a pair of Conti's (can't remember the exact model), a pair of stretching rims, two tubes of Continental glue, some flux brushes, and some Mavic Reflex wheels, but in part because I've never done it before, I've been holding off on actually gluing them.

I'm tempted to just get some Tufo extreme tape and be done with it, but haven't because a) folks have told me that glue is better for at least one reason - it's easier to remove a flat tire and install a spare, and b) it really is the "tried and true" way of doing it.

If gluing were a one-shot deal then I would ask somebody who knows how to do it to show me by demonstrating on mine, but given that apparently the best way to do it is a multiple-day process, that's not a practical option.

Net result, I still haven't tried them.

All of this is why it's taken me years to try them in the first place. And it may be that I'll just chicken out in the end yet again. After all, this is the fourth or fifth time I've decided to give it a go. Maybe I should just accept my fate.

[Louis]

One way to glue tubulars:

Park Tool Site Directions (http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/tubular-tire-gluing-sew-up)

[firerescuefin]

Conti Sprinters are hard to beat (easily had/reasonably priced/good tire).

I disagree about having a friend do it, unless your just mechanically inept. The Park directions are sound.

[oliver1850]

.

[akelman]

Okay, those instructions (the ones from Park, I mean) freaked me right out. Who wants to come over and glue my tires to my rims for me? I'll buy the pizza and the beer! And who wants to ride alongside me for the next few months, just waiting for the inevitable flat, and then change my tire? More pizza and beer on me!

[Louis]

The fact that there are so many different ways to glue tubulars suggests to me that most probably work pretty well.

Perhaps the exact process is not that critical after all.

[akelman]

I will admit that I'm not very aggresive descending or cornering, so I'm not pushing the envelope of the system very much.

Well, I'm not very aggressive descending, cornering, climbing, or on flats. I'm also pretty passive when I'm off the bike. It's a wonder that I ever leave bed.

[Louis]

And who wants to ride alongside me for the next few months, just waiting for the inevitable flat, and then change my tire?

This (the PITA of flats) is another reason I've been holding off on tubulars.

Bottom line, based on what I've read: Everything is more complicated with them. They better be one heck of a lot better than my Pro Race 3's, when I finally get around to trying them.

[firerescuefin]

This (the PITA of flats) is another reason I've been holding off on tubulars.

Bottom line, based on what I've read: Everything is more complicated with them. They better be one heck of a lot better than my Pro Race 3's, when I finally get around to trying them.


Have had tubulars...almost purchased some 404s on Ebay today. Running deep dish carbon clinchers with PR3s right now. Between having 2 little ones that cut into any spare time/the PITA quotient on rides (when you flat)/and the cost of basically throwing away a good tire when it flats, I am not quite there, but I will own some again.

[akelman]

Everything is more complicated with them. They better be one heck of a lot better than my Pro Race 3's, when I finally get around to trying them.

Stupid Bonktown made me make a stupid decision, didn't it? I blame consumer culture! Or capitalism! Or both! Oh well, I'm not really counting on tubulars being a lot better than nice clinchers. But I do hope they're different in some noticeable way.

[firerescuefin]

Stupid Bonktown made me make a stupid decision, didn't it? I blame consumer culture! Or capitalism! Or both! Oh well, I'm not really counting on tubulars being a lot better than nice clinchers. But I do hope they're different in some noticeable way.


They are. They ride better (noticeably). They're a badge of honor at the stoplight or when your bike sits on top of your car :cool:....and when you you have the time, they're a labor of love to install. Love being in the garage gluing them up/listening to the radio....maybe its just the strong glue smell I love ;)

What did you get on Bonktown?

[akelman]

What did you get on Bonktown?

Reynolds DV something-or-others (kidding aside, DV 3Ks). They were a pretty great deal, will finally provide me with a chance to try tubulars, and give me one more incentive to lose the last few pounds I gained after our kids were born and I stopped riding for a couple (okay, several) years. Plus, now I get to huff all the glue I want.

[jblande]

the contis are incredibly hard to mount for the first time. just such a tight fit, even after stretching. if you are going with tape, then maybe...

but i would go with veloflex tires.

[oliver1850]

.

[akelman]

I have to confess to a failure of imagination here. I'm just not sure how changing a tubular on the road works. Sure, I get that one totes along a spare tire. But from there? What gives? I mean, what with all the glue, and all the stretching, and all the sanding, and all the this and that, how does one deal with a flat on the road? Okay, I suppose one pre-stretches and pre-sands the extra tire, right? Still, one has to bring glue along on every be-tubulared ride? And then hope that, while sitting on the side of the road and exhausted from a long ride, the glue spreads on the rim and tire smoothly, the tire aligns properly, and then the whole mess dries quickly enough to be ridable again before night falls? Huh? Like I said, I must be missing something.

[Louis]

I have to confess to a failure of imagination here. I'm just not sure how changing a tubular on the road works. Sure, I get that one totes along a spare tire. But from there? What gives?

I'm hardly an expert, but I think you have two basic options (three if you include bringing along a sewing kit and patching the tube on the spot, but I have to believe that only cross-country riders with all the time in the world would bother with that approach).

1) One of those fix-a-flat things like Hutchinson FastAir. Pro: fast and easy. Con: non-zero possibility that the stuff won't work right and it won't seal the leak. (I have no experience with this stuff, but have heard that it does not always work, even when used on a small puncture. The manufacturers tell you that they only work on cuts up to a certain size, which I think is either 1 or 2 mm, I can't remember for sure.)

2) Spare tire that you just slap on in place of the flat one. Pro: reliable. Con: i) Having to remove the flat tire, which may be tough if you did a really good gluing job or if you used Tufo extreme tape ii) You're relying on glue left on the rim and whatever was left on the tire from it's previous life (most folks use an older tire nearing the end of it's life for this) and the tire pressure, which may not be quite as high as you would like, to keep the tire on the rim, so you have to be a bit careful in turns for the rest of the ride.

[slowandsteady]

Well, I'm not very aggressive descending, cornering, climbing, or on flats. I'm also pretty passive when I'm off the bike. It's a wonder that I ever leave bed.

Thanks for the Laugh - coffee out my nose!!!

[oldpotatoe]

I'm considering trying tubulars. (Please feel free to welcome me to the club. Or tell me I'm an idiot. Whichever.) If I do, I'm told that I need tires. So what kind of tires should I get? And how should I attach them to the rims? Tape? Glue? The power of my mind? I'm sure there have been countless threads devoted to these questions, but I can't find them. Sorry. And thanks.

I am a LONG time user of tubulars(25 years). I think they are great idea, are NOT a mess to get on, give a great ride and few flats.

I like Conti Sprinters. Good combo of durability and price. Vittoria, Velofex, FMB are more supple being cotton but are less reliable IME.

Stay away from tape. Get a can of Panaracer or Vittoria glue, a wee solvent brush, 2-3 coats, light coats.

STRETCH your tires, particularly if Contis.

I also put Stans goop in them. If you don't like the micro-misicule amount of ammonia, use Cafelatex.

It provides a great ride, are much less of a hassle than tubeless, all around great package.

in 25 years I have seen no compelling reason to change to clinchers and certainly not tubeless.

[dsb]

I have to confess to a failure of imagination here. I'm just not sure how changing a tubular on the road works. Sure, I get that one totes along a spare tire. But from there? What gives? I mean, what with all the glue, and all the stretching, and all the sanding, and all the this and that, how does one deal with a flat on the road?<snip>
I ride with a spare tire toe strapped under the seat. The spare of choice is a known good used tire with glue already applied, second choice being a stretched new tire that has glue applied. Once you change the tire you need to not corner at the speed of heat but they are perfectly safe for 'normal' riding... You'll be surprised at how much bond the spare has when you get home and try to take it off...
BTW, even though I ride Conti's with fair frequency, I don't like to carry them as spares because they are a bitch to get on the rim even if they previously had thousands of miles ridden on them... After you get home you need to properly mount a tire, or remount the 'spare' with a coat of glue...

[oldpotatoe]

I'll be interested in seeing what you end up doing for attachment choices. I have a pair of Conti's (can't remember the exact model), a pair of stretching rims, two tubes of Continental glue, some flux brushes, and some Mavic Reflex wheels, but in part because I've never done it before, I've been holding off on actually gluing them.

I'm tempted to just get some Tufo extreme tape and be done with it, but haven't because a) folks have told me that glue is better for at least one reason - it's easier to remove a flat tire and install a spare, and b) it really is the "tried and true" way of doing it.

If gluing were a one-shot deal then I would ask somebody who knows how to do it to show me by demonstrating on mine, but given that apparently the best way to do it is a multiple-day process, that's not a practical option.

Net result, I still haven't tried them.

NOT a multiday process. That is pure bugle oil. I have been using and gluing on tubies for over 2 decades, have never taken more than 30 minutes or so and have never had one roll. Yes, you have to wait 24 hours before using but the glue and let dry 24 hours, glue somemore and wait another day is balderdash.

Stretched tire, clean rim...glue tire, glue rim, glue tire, glue rim, glue tire....when the glue on the tire isn't way wet anymore, glue onto rim, mount, center, let dry 24 hours, go ride.

Light coats, solvent brush, can of glue(I like panaracer the best).

[R2D2]

I with Oldtater on this.
The only multi-day process is stretching the tires espescially Conti Competitions as they can be tight.

I wish you had a club near by. That was where you learned these things in the past. You'd go over to an older club members place and they'd show you a time or too.

Here are my insighs for what they are worth.
1.I like Conti tires. Their quality has really improved. The Competition and GP4000S are very durable tires. The 25mm Comp is a very nice road tire.
2.I soak a new tire in water to wet the base tape. Then mount on a spare dry rim. Pump up to 140 PSI and leave for a day or so. At this point use the dry rim and tire to practice mounting. Do it a few times. Get used to it.
3. The Conti glue or Vittoria are both good. The Conti carbon glue is BS and has been recalled so don't bother with it. It seems to be a thicker version of the regular glue from my limitted use.
4.The intructions on the Conti glue are adequate. One key for me is to mount the tire while the layer on the rim is still wet. Otherwise you can't adjust the tire position very easily. It helps to have just a little air in the tire when mounting. Then pump up to 30 psi or so to adjust. Most good tubulars line up pretty well to begin with but you may have to make some minor adjustments.
5. Once you are satisfied with straigtness, roll the wheel with pressure on the floor just to double insure good contact with the rim. Them pump up to pressure and let dry oer night.

Now TUFO tape is much simpler duringn install. BUT if you use it go to TUFO site an watch the intructions on how to pull the procective strip off the tape once tire is mounted. The problem I had with TUFO tape, was changing to a new tire. I always had a PITA time getting the old residual tape off to have good bed for the next mount. With glue it is MUCH MUCH easier for the next tire.

You can preload with sealant. Easy enough and works well for punctures.
The stuff like Vittoria PitStop works for pucntures, but can take some skill to use effectively. It can be worth the time to get a old tire , stick a nail in it and practice with a can a time or two.
NOTHING works on a bad cut. Sometimes a tire boot can help wth a cut cincher, but few people carry them. I've rescued a few riders far from home with the spares boots I carry.

The preception is clinchers are simple to change on the road. BUT some carbon clincher rims and tires are realy tight and almost impossible to deal with just tire levers. For clinchers I ALWAYS have a VAR combination tire lever and tire jack in my seat bag. Mine original is vintage 1985 and still kicking.
I recently bought another dozen and they make great b-day gifts. I'm always suprised why they are not more well known.

Wish you where near by and you could sip on a beer and I could show you in less time then it tkes to write this stuff.....

Hope it helps.

[Kirk007]

All of this is why it's taken me years to try them in the first place. And it may be that I'll just chicken out in the end yet again. After all, this is the fourth or fifth time I've decided to give it a go. Maybe I should just accept my fate.

YOU CAN DO IT. I did it for the first time this winter, by myself, aided by the numerous threads here, and there are great you tube videos. Seriously it is so much easier than folks make it out to be. If you can follow instructions and have some patience, you will be fine. Highly recommend Zank's photo tutorial over at Velocipede on mounting cross tubulars.

I used Vittoria paves; stretched them well before hand and they went on easily.

I thought of it as a very Zen experience. Embrace the mystery and the secrets will reveal themselves!

[jblande]

what do those of you 'preloading with sealant' use?

and do you have some mini-funnel or something? this seems to me like a stupid question, even as i ask, but I am not certain how i should preload...

[regularguy412]

Disclaimer: I didn't read every post in this thread.

I have used tubular tires/rims for many years -- although not exclusively. I generally split my riding 50/50 between two different Serottas. The TG is set up with clinchers -- for group riding and just generally beating my own brains out. The CSI is my 'good' bike. For years I used Conti Competition GPs on Campy Record/Victory Chrono rims. Those wheels served me well for many years, but they were quite light -- on the order of 275/280 grams for the rim, alone. They finally blew up and have now been replaced by Easton EC90SL 38mm carbon tubulars. I'm still running Conti Comp GPs.

The Contis do run a bit small and really must be pre-stretched for a few days prior to attempting installation. This is both good and bad. They 'can' be a bit of a bear to install -- especially if you've never mounted tubulars before. On the other hand, the snug fit also affords some small, extra measure of security, i.e., less likely to roll off the rim. One thing I noted when comparing my old Campy rims to the new Eastons, the Eastons have a center channel made into the carbon tire bed to allow the seam of the tape to fit into. I was pleased to note this, as it seems as if it would allow the tire to fit correctly and also give more effective gluing contact surface area.

My method is similar to Old Potatoe, except I don't use quite as many total coats of glue. Another plus in my book for using Contis is that there is no residue on the tape surface that has to be removed prior to installation.
It's not rocket surgery.

The main two benefits that I have found that comes with running a good, light tubular wheel set is that they spin up faster and it also seems that I can corner much better (possibly because there is less of a gyroscopic effect due to the lighter rotating mass). Whatever the reason, I feel much more confident cornering on tubulars than I do on clinchers.

Mike in AR:beer:

[R2D2]

what do those of you 'preloading with sealant' use?

and do you have some mini-funnel or something? this seems to me like a stupid question, even as i ask, but I am not certain how i should preload...

Basically a syringe or squeeze bottle. Take the valve core out.Move wheel
so stem is at top. And squeeze in. Screw core back in and air up and spin.

If you are near an REI Caffe Latte has a little system that you can purchase.
Or you can just browse online and get the general idea.

TUFO sealant is a self contained squeze bottle with a little vinyl air hose that joins the bottle to the valve stem.

They all work about the same.

[zap]

Conti Comps.

Not the smoothest, not the best rr, but all-round best tire.

Even if your handling sucks, when you need to move off line quick because some jock goes down in front of you, best done with tubulars that stay on your rims.

Tufo tape is easy but rr goes up.

Riding tubulars since '87. Back then I was using this 3M product which required no thought but man was it a pita to remove worn/flat tubulars.

Do a search here-Cees has some interesting posts.

[martinrjensen]

you should glue them yourself. what's the worst that will happen anyway? I suppose you could say that while in traffic you will get a flat. Ever get a flat on a clincher? It doesn't usually tip you over. Maybe the tire will roll off? Well if you don't do a decent glue job it might, and most likely only on a corner cause going straight, there would be minimal side stresss on the tire. So it comes off, you fall down and maybe scratch the bike a bit and you, but then you have learned a valuable lesson in how not to glue a tire and it presents you with a great oppurtunity in changing the tire on the road. You will find out it's not really that hard.
You will never know if you don't do it, and as Winston Churchhill said, "all we have to fear is fear itself". At least I think he said that, I wasn't there at the time.
FWIW, I rode "sewups" for years. Never had a problem. I actually repaired the flats on the road. Usually it took me about a half hour to remove the tire, unsew it and repair the leak, sew it back up with a curved needle and glue it back on the rim. Like you I probably wasn't very aggressive on the corners but I never had an issue and only had very few flats also
Well, I'm not very aggressive descending, cornering, climbing, or on flats. I'm also pretty passive when I'm off the bike. It's a wonder that I ever leave bed.

[TAW]

A couple of thoughts: I have Continental Competitions on one set and I have some Zipps on my other set, and I have various other tires. I don't care for the ride of the Continentals, and if one is going to take the time to test out tubulars, I think one ought to try the best they can find/afford. Secondly, I stretch the Continentals before and after I put a coat of glue on them. It seems the glue shrinks them slightly and makes them harder to mount.
Friends don't let friends ride cheap tubulars. :)

[oldguy00]

I also agree with oldpotatoe.
In fact, I take even less time to put mine on.
I use the toes over rim method to pull the tire on, and have never had a problem getting any tubular on, and have never bothered pre-stretching (in 20 years).
I put a coat of glue on the rim, wait 10 minutes, put another coat on the rim, pull the tire on, straighten, inflate to full pressure, leave overnight.

Never had one roll, always have to pull pretty hard to take them off. Have averaged less than one flat per year.

Sprinters are indeed a good value, but not as nice as a ride as Veloflex carbons or Conti Competitions.

[djg]

For road tires, I really like the "new" 320 tpi Vittoria evo cx tires in a 700 x 23. A lot. Do not get the 21 unless you have a special reason to do so. Nicely made, supple, grippy, not fragile, and they seem pretty uniform. It's my new favorite, and if you shop around, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Veloflex makes nice tires -- a bit more expensive, but not a lot (but I don't think I see the advantage). The roubaix is a nice option if you want a little more rubber on the road (700 x 24 -- also the Vittoria can be had in a 700 x 25 if that's what you want).

The Park site is decent, I think. I favor vittoria mastik for adhesive. Just work carefully and go slow the first couple of times and you'll be fine. Nice even coats, not thick, and be sure to go edge to edge on the rim bed. You can use a flux brush or just put on a pair of nitrile gloves and use your finger. Leave the first layer a good while -- as in overnight -- before the 2d. A truing stand to hold the wheel is pretty helpful, although not necessary. And make sure you PRE-STRETCH your tires on clean rims before you get started.

I'd get a can of pit stop as well. You might go months before you need it, but if you get a small puncture (whenever), this might do the trick in a jiffy. It won't fix everything, not by a long shot, but it's a decent bet to work with a small puncture.

Learn to glue your own tires. It's just not that hard, and it's worth it to know that it's done right.

And the old foot on the tire thing -- might work for some but it's a good way to tear threads in the base tape or pull the tire out of round. Just use your hands.

[oldpotatoe]

what do those of you 'preloading with sealant' use?

and do you have some mini-funnel or something? this seems to me like a stupid question, even as i ask, but I am not certain how i should preload...

I use Stan's, the wee bottle, unscrew the valve, take out, squirt a bit in, replace the valve.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I use Stan's, the wee bottle, unscrew the valve, take out, squirt a bit in, replace the valve.

Forgive my ignorance, but, once you use sealant in the tubular tire, is it still possible to repair the tire by unsewing it and patching the tube in case the sealant doesn't do the job? It would seem not, or, at the very least, incredibly messy? I've just started using tubulars, and am just carrying around a spare.

[Craig Ryan]

you should glue them yourself. what's the worst that will happen anyway?... clip

Agreed. You can sit and fuss about, or go ride and get personal experience. Personal experience trumps 100 internet posts.
Craig

[thwart]

First of all, I'm a relative newbie to tubies, but an idea I stole from ZMudshark: Conti Sprinter up front, and Conti Gatorskin on the back wheel.

This will give you a bit more peace of mind on group rides. Less chance of holding others up while you mess with your first flat.

BTW, I've had good luck with Vittoria PitStop. Bring one with you, with a cell phone as back-up. I've even taken to using a 'partial dose' on tubies I have with a slow leak (although probably more expensive than other products that can do exactly the same thing).