Stupid Cyclocross Questions.... [Archive]

oldguy00

03-11-2011, 10:05 AM

AngryScientist

03-11-2011, 10:12 AM

Hi all, I'm a cyclocross virgin....
I only own one bike at the moment, a road bike, but was thinking of building a spare/rain bike. I also wouldn't mind having the option to ride cyclocross net year.
I know the easy solution is to buy a cyclocross bike to serve both functions.
But just wondering, can a regular road frame be used for cyclocross?
Will the regular road brakes cause issues (tire clearance, mud, etc)??

Thanks!

tire clearance and brake fit are the two big issues. most road bikes will allow a max tire size of 25 or 28c tires (my merlin wont even fit 25's). cx bikes also have provisions for canti or mini v brakes (or disc brakes). road calipers start to seriously come up short in wet muddy conditions, + tire clearance becomes a major issue with calipers.

Jawn P

03-11-2011, 10:37 AM

oldguy00

03-11-2011, 10:40 AM

Thanks. I'll probably end up going with something like a Kona Jake the Snake..

fourflys

03-11-2011, 11:02 AM

oldguy-
seeing that you are in Canada, I'm guessing you get some rain and mud... a road bike would probably be OK here in Southern California, but I wouldn't recommend it where you are...

A Jake the Snake is a good option, I see those frames on the bay all the time... both of my cross bikes were bought used and I haven't had any issues, just make sure the steerer has enough length if you buy used... also, some of the more race oriented bikes may have steeper seat/head tubes than what you may want for a winter/commuter bike, so just watch for that...

BTW- it's a blast to ride your cross bike on the local trails as you blast past the guys on their FS bikes while going up hills... :D

oldguy00

03-11-2011, 11:09 AM

I actually see some jake the snakes on ebay right now, new, at good prices, but they don't include headsets or BB's (BB30?). Not sure where I would get a specific headset for one (not my LBS)...

fourflys

03-11-2011, 11:12 AM

I actually see some jake the snakes on ebay right now, new, at good prices, but they don't include headsets or BB's (BB30?). Not sure where I would get a specific headset for one (not my LBS)...

not sure what size you ride, but there is a sweet Ridley in the classifieds for a cheap... 51cm tt though...

also, keep a lookout for a Redline Conquest Team or Pro, these are great bikes as well...

oldguy00

03-11-2011, 11:17 AM

No, I need something around 54cm top tube.
Anyone know of a ource for the headsets and BB inserts for the 2011 model Jake the Snakes?

fourflys

03-11-2011, 11:26 AM

check out this (http://cgi.ebay.com/Soma-Double-Cross-Disc-frame-48cm-NEW-/260749301696?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb5de97c0#ht_500wt_1156) these are great as an all around bike that can get around a race course as well...

Aaron O

03-11-2011, 11:31 AM

What angry scientist said.

I wouldn't recommend it. Even if you get a road bike designed for fatter tires, the first muddy race you have your calipers are going to pack up with mud like crazy.

I make do on my cross bike as my winter trainer. I've got a whole ton of miles on it since December, and although I prefer the geometry of my roadbike, it's not bad by any means.

Cantis stink, so if you want a bit more of a road-worthy brake, maybe look into a mini-v?

Cantis set up by people who don't know what they're doing stink. Properly set up cantis usually work quite well, depending on the canti. The ubiquitous Avid shorty 4 stinks.

I owned a Jake the Snake for a good while and it wasn't my favorite bike. I have a Lemond Poprad now and I like how it rides a LOT more. If you're not afraid of used, I'd go after a Poprad.

Jawn P

03-11-2011, 11:35 AM

Cantis set up by people who don't know what they're doing stink. Properly set up cantis usually work quite well, depending on the canti. The ubiquitous Avid shorty 4 stinks.

I was over generalizing, sure.

I can set up cantis well, but I still run into fork shudder problems. I can't run a fork-mounted hanger because my EC90x isn't drilled for it, and no matter how well cantis are set up, I think that calipers feel so much better. TRP Euro X Mags on one bike, Tektro CR720s on another.

My .02 (adjusted for inflation).

Gummee

03-11-2011, 11:44 AM

Cross bikes are a great alternative to 'road' bikes for lots of people. I ride my Gunnar Crosshairs on group rides and don't suffer due to the bike. I suffer because I'm fat, old, and out of shape!

I've been on that bike places that DS mtn bikers go, so where you can ride is only limited by your (lack of) brains and skill.

I usually have 2 cranks for the bike: 1 for summer use that's a typical 39/53 and another that's 34/46 (or 50) for winter/racing.

I've owned a TET, Jake the Snake, and now a Crosshairs. Of the 3, I like the Crosshairs the best.

M

edited to add: Lennard Zinn seems to think that fork shudder is caused by the distance between brakes and hanger changing lengths as the fork flexes. My experience tends to bear this out.

Aaron O

03-11-2011, 11:46 AM

I was over generalizing, sure.

I can set up cantis well, but I still run into fork shudder problems. I can't run a fork-mounted hanger because my EC90x isn't drilled for it, and no matter how well cantis are set up, I think that calipers feel so much better. TRP Euro X Mags on one bike, Tektro CR720s on another.

My .02 (adjusted for inflation).

I can set up certain cantis well...many I have to take to a shop to fix things like you're talking about. My DC 982s are easy as heck. The old Shimano ones are pretty easy. Most of the newer ones I seem to have problems with...so I take them to better mechanics than I am.

The Avid 4 shortys just don't work, at least not for long.

djg

03-11-2011, 11:49 AM

Yeah, what they said on clearance. You can cobble something together to work, IF your road bike can take 28 (min.) or 32c (better) tires, but if the calipers get clogged by mud the show is over -- clogged by something else and maybe over pretty suddenly. I'd much rather ride a cross bike on the road (especially with slicks or file tread tires) than a road bike on a cross course, even on the assumption I could get a tolerable set of tires on the road bike. Much.

melonyogloo

03-11-2011, 12:30 PM

I have Avid Shorty Ultimate with salmon pad on my cross bike right now, with fork mount hanger, I have no shudder problem at all. I do agree that Avid Shorty 4 just suck.

patrick8037

03-11-2011, 12:53 PM

If you're wanting to have just one bike for road and cross, go with a cross bike. A cross bike can serve both purposes. One of my teammates uses his Kona Major Jake for both cross and road racing.

jeo99

03-11-2011, 01:44 PM

I actually had a custom Atlanta fabricated into a CX bike. Has road geo, canti's and rear stay to accommodate larger tires. It is now my travel bike as the Bilenky boys installed S&S couplers. Never have to worry about conditions where I travel. http://www.bilenky.com/serotta_atlanta.html

:beer:

majl

03-11-2011, 08:54 PM

No, I need something around 54cm top tube.

CC has been running a great closeout deal on a 54 Ridley Crosswind, either frame only or complete bike. These are great cross bikes.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&OPTION=LOAD_PRODUCT_BY_ID&PRODUCT.ID=8038&MODE=SPECIALS

salem

03-13-2011, 08:08 PM

Cross bikes do make good multi-purpose bikes, but be aware, those intended as multi-purpose bikes don't always make the best cross racers. If you are fairly certain you will want to race the bike, two things I'd recommend looking at carefully:

1) Cable routing: all cables on the TT just make it so much less cumbersome when you need to quickly slide the down tube into the crook of your elbow for shouldering the bike.
2) BB height: There are "cross" bikes out there with extremely low BBs, such as the old Lemond Poprads. Fine for paved and dirt roads, but if you find yourself on an off-camber section of race course, you could easily be hitting the uphill side earth with every pedal stroke. Conversely, my Zanconato race-specific bike has around 49mm BB drop (vs. the Lemonds, if I remember, 72mm) which is great for racing, but a little ungainly for riding around. Around 60mm drop is probably a good compromise.

All that said, my first couple cross race bikes were built out of road and touring frames with caliper brakes because that's what I had. It is far from ideal, but it is possible, in muddy New England no less.

acckids

05-10-2011, 08:15 AM

Re-viving this thread.

I just bought a 62cm Gunnar Crosshairs with Alpha Q CX20. 90% of my riding will be asphalt, chip/seal and gravel roads so I will be using 32mm tire. I'm pretending I will do some cyclocross the other 10%.

Based on this post, I should not have gone cheap and bought the Avid 4 Shorty because they stink(as I have found out).

Because my bike is a 62cm, I have a huge distance between the cable hanger and the brakes which causes a lot of fork/brake chatter. It actually affects my handling of bike.

The stopping power going down a hill and trying to stop for stop sign is not encouraging either.

Any suggestions on mini-v brakes that work well?

veloduffer

05-10-2011, 09:22 AM

I use the TRP CX-9 mini-v brakes - I have them on the front of two cross bikes. They work very well but it is more difficult to get fat tire wheels in & out of the frame since the pads need to be very close to the rim. It helps if your brake lever also has a quick release (like Campy or Cane Creek).

BTW, you can use the mini-v just in the front to eliminate the fork shudder and run cantilevers in the back, which will be easier to modulate (especially in cross racing).

Of the cantilever brakes available, I like the Shimano and Cane Creeks that come with the pre-fixed straddle wire/housing. Easier to set up and stop very well. I have the Shimanos on my wife's cross bike and the Cane Creeks on my "guest" cross bike.

redir

05-10-2011, 09:25 AM

Cantis set up by people who don't know what they're doing stink. Properly set up cantis usually work quite well, depending on the canti. The ubiquitous Avid shorty 4 stinks.

I owned a Jake the Snake for a good while and it wasn't my favorite bike. I have a Lemond Poprad now and I like how it rides a LOT more. If you're not afraid of used, I'd go after a Poprad.

I love my Poprad, the last year they made it in OX Platinum, rides like butter.

Aaron O

05-10-2011, 09:36 AM

I love my Poprad, the last year they made it in OX Platinum, rides like butter.

I'm with you! Mine is OX Platinum as well and just really gives a great ride. It's not my fanciest bike, but damn if it isn't one of the ones I enjoy the most. In an ideal world it would be lugged, but I can forgive some ugliness in such a great ride partner.

fatallightning

05-10-2011, 10:55 AM

the trp cx9 is very nice, but pricey. the cheap tektro mini v 926 functionally, is pretty damn close. you still have to run them much closer to the rim then a wide profile canti, but it's not bad unless you are a serial pnw mud rider.

jroden

05-10-2011, 11:05 AM

I have owned and raced a pile of cross bikes and muchly prefer standard road bike rear mech routing under the bb, as the down the seatstay method gets filled with mud very quickly. I find the lower bottom bracket also handles better and is not much of a trade off for racing.

Many of the Ridleys used to be very tall with a real high standover, not sure if this is still the case with all models. I don't see the point of such a high standover, but plenty of fast people like the bikes.

The Stevens are really nice bikes and are sold in Canada I believe. I see a lot of ontario riders on the True North bikes.

acckids

05-10-2011, 12:27 PM

So it looks like that Tektro and TRP are the main ones w/o using the adapter for regular V brakes.

jroden

05-10-2011, 12:47 PM

So it looks like that Tektro and TRP are the main ones w/o using the adapter for regular V brakes.

can you get the wheel off with the tire inflated? I tried the mini v's for cross racing and they were good brakes but sat too close to the rim and were often dragging in the mud

Dave B

05-10-2011, 12:56 PM

Love mini-v's period.

I do not fancy myself a podium placer so wheel swapping is not important to me. Plus I only have one set of wheels. So one and done.

Plus they actually work. I have loads of experience setting up cantis and yes that is huge, but they do leave a lot to be desired. I am sure top pros and those who really ride at the front of the top classes can do just fine. Me, I like to slow fast and when I want to!

No shudder for me as well.

garth

05-10-2011, 02:41 PM

I love me some TRP CX9s too.

Here is a good read about Rabobank's Adam Craig who uses the mini-Vs even in the mud.

An excerpt from the interview:
Interviewer: "So why do most people still use wide-profile Euro-style brakes?
Craig: "Because most people suck at riding, and they don't know any better. They think that the wide-profile Mafac thing is cool, which it was back in 1954"

Adam is using the new TRP CX9 brakes. See that pic down below from Mallory Park? You'll see I'm using the same brakes. That was my first race on them and they were great. I was swapping between EuroX's and CX9s on my two bikes and the CX9's made life so much easier. With good brakes you're either on the gas, or on the brakes. With normal - ineffective - brakes, you end up freewheeling the whole time so as not to pick up too much uncontrollable speed.
Which sucks.
Anyone who tells you you don't need brakes in cyclocross is a crank who's never raced properly and/or is a crap rider. Brakes matter � get the best you can, and set them up so they work!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pro-bike-adam-craigs-rabobank-giant-tcx-advanced-sl

http://cdn2.media.cyclingnews.futurecdn.net/2010/11/16/2/adam_craig_tcx_bars_600.jpg

acckids

05-10-2011, 09:22 PM

I'm at least going to try some mini-v's up front. The fork/brake chatter tonight was too anoying for me. Thanks for the post.

seatown7

05-11-2011, 01:03 AM

Post a WTB on local Cross websites. I found a clean Redline Conquest Team with discs and Dura Ace AND a spare set of wheels for $800. The only thing I've done is put on some brake interrupter levers on the flats.

Enjoy!