Alternatives to Paypal...

[veggieburger]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but specifically, has anyone tried Moneybookers?

I have quite a bit of new stuff I would like to sell on here, but I have issues supporting Paypal, and I don't think it's fair to the buyer to request cash or a check.

Thoughts? Other suggestions?

[Dave B]

I am not advocating paypal so hear that first.

I think most folks are familiar with them and typically have some sort of trust, not alwasy mind you, but enough to feel comfortable. The other flks like you mentioned may be great, but less known. Could scare a few folks off.

I think asking for check or money order is fine. Make sure you both feel comfortable etc.

Best of luck.

Prez

[phcollard]

Have you tried Google Checkout?

[avalonracing]

I think most folks are familiar with them and typically have some sort of trust, not alwasy mind you, but enough to feel comfortable.

Prez

I would not use unknown payment system just because the OP (and some other people) have a problem with PayPal.
On the net there are so many ways to loose money, give up personal info, fall prey to identity theft. The fewer times we make our information available the better. I would happily send you a check or money order long before I would sign up for "Jim & Dave's Super Easy Internet Money Sending System.com"

[leooooo]

"Jim & Dave's Super Easy Internet Money Sending System.com"

If you remove the spaces between the words, it will look more like a legit web address ;)

[AngryScientist]

I would not use unknown payment system just because the OP (and some other people) have a problem with PayPal.
On the net there are so many ways to loose money, give up personal info, fall prey to identity theft. The fewer times we make our information available the better. I would happily send you a check or money order long before I would sign up for "Jim & Dave's Super Easy Internet Money Sending System.com"

i agree with this fully. i will also say that i have no problem sending a check to known forum members.

[93legendti]

Dwolla. I used it when I bought from Foxwear.

[Don49]

There's always Western Union.

[Jeff N.]

Paypal is supposedly super secure. But these days...who knows? I far prefer check/cash/money order.

[godfrey1112000]

In Some Cases Pp May Be Best, Speeds Up Delivery Dealing With A New Member Or Just To Be Safe,

I Purchased A Frame From A Long Time Formum Member, Sent A Check, Frame Arrived Perfect A Week Later

Follow You Gut And You Will Be Fine

[BengeBoy]

I've sometimes gotten people to agree to accept Amazon gift certificates. It isn't cash, but people can put the money in their Amazon account and then buy stuff over time to work down the balance.

Amazon also has a personal payments system similar to PayPal that is described here -- you can send either via a computer or via a cellphone:

https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/personal/money

I haven't personally used it.

[Ahneida Ride]

Perhaps someday the vice lock the big financial institutions have on us
will be released.

[Ralph]

I love PayPal. I really like how they do currency conversions, make it easy to move money securely around the world, in and out of my banking accounts, etc. They are just a big International E bank. It's their owner E Bay I try to avoid. And PayPal is rapidly becoming a bigger business than struggling E Bay.

So I don't know how you avoid them, without causing damage to your selling efforts. But am sure one of the competing E banks will gain in acceptance. Good luck.

[Aaron O]

I absolutely despise Paypal and have found them to be a nightmare. There's a reason they've had more class action lawsuits than Exxon. They violate their own terms and conditions as it suits them, change policies weekly and refuse to explain why until you take legal action.

Unfortunately there's an old story. A man is playing poker at a game he knows to be rigged. He complains about it afterwards to a buddy...who asks him why he played there if he knows it's rigged. He answers it's the only game in town.

[93legendti]

https://www.dwolla.com/

[Ken Robb]

My PP account was hacked and drained. When I tried to withdraw my $$$ I got a message from "Ben Had". PP was NO help and the amount was not big enough for me to pursue it farther. Needless to say I will have no more dealings w/PayPal. :crap:

[troymac]

https://www.dwolla.com/
Just signed up for this only a 25¢ fee awesome.

[93legendti]

Just signed up for this only a 25¢ fee awesome.
I am amazed more people haven't heard of Dwolla.

[Aaron O]

I am amazed more people haven't heard of Dwolla.

I signed up as well...I just hope customers are willing to use it.

[rugbysecondrow]

My PP account was hacked and drained. When I tried to withdraw my $$$ I got a message from "Ben Had". PP was NO help and the amount was not big enough for me to pursue it farther. Needless to say I will have no more dealings w/PayPal. :crap:

I understand the emotion, but can't any transaction or account be compromised? If you send a check to somebody for goods, you don't think your account and routing number are at risk?

[veggieburger]

You mean how they screw you over at ever turn? Their conversion rates are the WORST I have ever seen. Fat Tony down at the diner gives better rates..


I love PayPal. I really like how they do currency conversions, make it easy to move money securely around the world, in and out of my banking accounts, etc. They are just a big International E bank. It's their owner E Bay I try to avoid. And PayPal is rapidly becoming a bigger business than struggling E Bay.

So I don't know how you avoid them, without causing damage to your selling efforts. But am sure one of the competing E banks will gain in acceptance. Good luck.

[rice rocket]

I've never compared their rates, but one nice thing is you don't get dinged a currency conversion charge on your credit card (but maybe that's b/c I'm low man on the credit card totem :rolleyes: ).

[old_fat_and_slow]

Disclaimer: I've never sold anything on Ebay yet.

Is it possible to use a PayPal alternative such as Dwolla or National Merchant Bancard (see PayPalsucks.com) in your Ebay ad? Don't they force you to use PayPal?

Aren't these alternatives only viable for doing transactions on various classified sections in forums such as this?

[Aaron O]

Disclaimer: I've never sold anything on Ebay yet.

Is it possible to use a PayPal alternative such as Dwolla or National Merchant Bancard (see PayPalsucks.com) in your Ebay ad? Don't they force you to use PayPal?

Aren't these alternatives only viable for doing transactions on various classified sections in forums such as this?

I would NEVER dream of manipulating the Ebay system...when Ebay and Paypal are such fair dealers :rolleyes:

BUT...if I were...I'd offer an item with a high BIN price...with the ability to accept offers. I'd respond to a reasonable offer and say you can do it, but only if they make a paypal personal cash payment (which I've heard Paypal is starting to cut back on) or use an alternate payment source.

[dave thompson]

Disclaimer: I've never sold anything on Ebay yet.

Is it possible to use a PayPal alternative such as Dwolla or National Merchant Bancard (see PayPalsucks.com) in your Ebay ad? Don't they force you to use PayPal?

Aren't these alternatives only viable for doing transactions on various classified sections in forums such as this?
EBay doesn't force sellers or buyer to use PayPal but the seller can stipulate in his auction how he wants to be paid. Some sellers choose PayPal as their only payment that they will accept while others will say that they accept credit cards as well as PayPal. It's the sellers choice.

If someone is selling something on EBay that I want and states that PayPal is his only payment, I'll contact him and ask about other methods citing my EBay feedback in an attempt to persuade him to do it my way.

I must say that I've been a member of PayPal since it started 12 years ago and I've never had a problem. Because it's the biggest E-payment company, the other outfits trying to get their foot in the door are going to have a very hard time. If someone wanted to pay me via Dwolla or one of the others, I think I would treat it like a personal check payment; wait until it clears and is really in my account/hands before I would ship the item.

[DHallerman]

Paypal is supposedly super secure. But these days...who knows? I far prefer check/cash/money order.

Who knows? You're right. Mail is stolen, too.

I prefer PayPal for the quick payment and then easy transfer into my bank account. Yes, it costs a bit. Every choice has built-in trade-offs.

But when I've had people say they'll send me a check, sometimes they don't.

With PayPal, I can conclude the deal here and now. The buyer gets it faster, too.

Dave, who can understand why others prefer other ways which is the bottom line in that there are no perfect choices

[Aaron O]

https://www.dwolla.com/

I set up a Dwolla account after you posted this and I really have to thank you. I had never heard of them before, but DAMN, it's awesome and fast! I was able to offer a discount to my ebay buyer...he's happy, I'm happy...just a great site. I hope it puts Paypal out of business.

[93legendti]

I set up a Dwolla account after you posted this and I really have to thank you. I had never heard of them before, but DAMN, it's awesome and fast! I was able to offer a discount to my ebay buyer...he's happy, I'm happy...just a great site. I hope it puts Paypal out of business.
My pleasure. Lou B from Foxwear told me about Dwolla. Glad it works for you.

[sonatageek]

For personal transaction, like selling something on an internet forum, you can choose 'personal' and then 'payment owed' and pay no PayPal fees. I found out about that a year or so ago when I needed to get payment to someone on another bikeforum.

[dave thompson]

For personal transaction, like selling something on an internet forum, you can choose 'personal' and then 'payment owed' and pay no PayPal fees. I found out about that a year or so ago when I needed to get payment to someone on another bikeforum.
You can do that but you may not do that. PayPal is cracking down on receiving money for goods sold. When you sell something, you are then a merchant and subject to the fees for the transaction. PayPal is sending notices to 'merchants' basically saying if you don't stop using the personal section (gift or payment owed) they will charge your account the transaction fees on all monies received regardless.

Here's the text of their notice to "us":

We recently changed our pricing so that all PayPal customers can receive
money from friends and family within the US for free. PayPal merchants
receiving money as payment for a purchase, continue to incur fees.

We’re not sure if you are aware of this, but we noticed that some of
your customers are sending you personal payments for purchases.
Unfortunately, this violates our rules, and we need your help correcting
this. Please don’t ask or allow your customers to use personal payments
to pay for their purchases.

If we continue to see such activity after <April 18, 2011>, we may have
to disable your ability to receive personal payments, and then you will
pay fees for all money received through PayPal.

You can find more information about payment types and fees in sections
4.2 and 8 of our User Agreement – just click “Legal Agreements” at the
bottom of any PayPal page.

If you have any questions, concerns, or think we may have made a
mistake, please contact us at P2P@paypal.com. Thank you for helping us
resolve this matter.

[witcombusa]

Nothing but good things to say about PayPal....

[Aaron O]

Nothing but good things to say about PayPal....

Based on personal experience and knowledge of the numerous class action lawsuits filed again paypal, I respectfully disagree. They are a monopolistic company with low levels of customer support, limited and obfuscated access to supervisors and who unilaterally set, define and change policies based solely on convenience to paypal with complete disregard for their customers and most laws. I have found them to be an absolutely gross company.

This isn't the forum, but I also have political issues with Paypal/Ebay's CEO.

I am VERY pleased to know about Dwolla.

[DHallerman]

For personal transaction, like selling something on an internet forum, you can choose 'personal' and then 'payment owed' and pay no PayPal fees. I found out about that a year or so ago when I needed to get payment to someone on another bikeforum.

In addition to what Dave T. wrote, I also believe that PayPal still charges using the Personal tab if you want to use a credit card for payment.

But in that case, they charge the buyer, not the person whose account it is.

At least that's my experience.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Ebay now requires sellers to accept payment via paypal only. If you put cash or check accepted in the description in the listing, ebay will notify you that you are violating TOS. EBay doesn't force sellers or buyer to use PayPal but the seller can stipulate in his auction how he wants to be paid. Some sellers choose PayPal as their only payment that they will accept while others will say that they accept credit cards as well as PayPal. It's the sellers choice.

If someone is selling something on EBay that I want and states that PayPal is his only payment, I'll contact him and ask about other methods citing my EBay feedback in an attempt to persuade him to do it my way.

I must say that I've been a member of PayPal since it started 12 years ago and I've never had a problem. Because it's the biggest E-payment company, the other outfits trying to get their foot in the door are going to have a very hard time. If someone wanted to pay me via Dwolla or one of the others, I think I would treat it like a personal check payment; wait until it clears and is really in my account/hands before I would ship the item.

[witcombusa]

Based on personal experience and knowledge of the numerous class action lawsuits filed again paypal, I respectfully disagree. They are a monopolistic company with low levels of customer support, limited and obfuscated access to supervisors and who unilaterally set, define and change policies based solely on convenience to paypal with complete disregard for their customers and most laws. I have found them to be an absolutely gross company.
.


Well I have done hundreds of transactions through them and the one or two issues (both on the sellers part) were resolved quickly with all of the money recovered.

To me, that works

[dave thompson]

I've been a member of PayPal almost since the day that they opened their doors, I've had nothing but good dealings with them. I've spoken to a human when I've needed one. I've always gotten the information or help that I wanted.

PayPal's business model is different and you have to operate within that model.

[Aaron O]

I respect that others have had different experiences...but I just know what has happened to me, and the multiple lawsuits make it fairly clear I'm not alone. A lot has to do with how much and how often you sell...I don't sell that often. It has to do with what you sell as well. What I know is that I've never had a dispute, have 100% feedback on 112 transactions, have nothing under a 4.8 DSR, but paypal insists on holding my money until positive feedback is received or a month goes by.

According to their printed terms and conditions, the payment holds don't apply to me, but they do it anyway and I gave up pursuing the matter after hours of wasted time. I do not like waiting 3-4 weeks for my cash...especially when I know that if a dispute does happen, they are going to automatically side with the seller. They don't pay interest during that hold period. If you read their stated terms and conditions, they will back charge your account if someone cancels a CC payment months down the road. They won't dispute the charge cancellation on your behalf, they'll just charge you. They aren't FDIC insured, so if something DOES happen, your money is GONE. I don't like having my cash in an electronic prison with no insurance.

In short I've received poor service, randomly and incorrectly applied policy decisions (which I have never heard an explanation for, other than we decided to do it that way) and have paid a high 3% premium to get it stuck to me. If it works for you, great...I know this doesn't happen to everyone.

I personally find the paypal-ebay "business model" monopolistic...though in these times of deregulation, they just call that synergy.

[sonatageek]

Interesting. I sell things very infrequently online, and have never ran into those issues. Looks like I need remove that from my method of operation. Oh, well.

In addition to what Dave T. wrote, I also believe that PayPal still charges using the Personal tab if you want to use a credit card for payment.

But in that case, they charge the buyer, not the person whose account it is.

At least that's my experience.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

I've had basically the same experience. That 3% is the reason I'd rather sell it locally (cash), albeit for less. Or sell and buy on the forum classifieds (better people, better gear), with the 3% reduction (and listing fees) savings built in to the asking price. Holds have been placed on my account for no reason (never a dispute, over 290 positivfeedback transactions), making me look like a D-bag to buyers and sellers. Paypal is convenient, but at a high price, IMO. I use it sparingly.I respect that others have had different experiences...but I just know what has happened to me, and the multiple lawsuits make it fairly clear I'm not alone. A lot has to do with how much and how often you sell...I don't sell that often. It has to do with what you sell as well. What I know is that I've never had a dispute, have 100% feedback on 112 transactions, have nothing under a 4.8 DSR, but paypal insists on holding my money until positive feedback is received or a month goes by.

According to their printed terms and conditions, the payment holds don't apply to me, but they do it anyway and I gave up pursuing the matter after hours of wasted time. I do not like waiting 3-4 weeks for my cash...especially when I know that if a dispute does happen, they are going to automatically side with the seller. They don't pay interest during that hold period. If you read their stated terms and conditions, they will back charge your account if someone cancels a CC payment months down the road. They won't dispute the charge cancellation on your behalf, they'll just charge you. They aren't FDIC insured, so if something DOES happen, your money is GONE. I don't like having my cash in an electronic prison with no insurance.

In short I've received poor service, randomly and incorrectly applied policy decisions (which I have never heard an explanation for, other than we decided to do it that way) and have paid a high 3% premium to get it stuck to me. If it works for you, great...I know this doesn't happen to everyone.

I personally find the paypal-ebay "business model" monopolistic...though in these times of deregulation, they just call that synergy.

[rugbysecondrow]

I've been a member of PayPal almost since the day that they opened their doors, I've had nothing but good dealings with them. I've spoken to a human when I've needed one. I've always gotten the information or help that I wanted.

PayPal's business model is different and you have to operate within that model.

I have had the same experience. To have a real person answer and help you with your online transaction is a nice.

If you like it, use it. If not, don't.