Wheel purchase advice

[spincoast]

I'm looking to buy a second set of wheels. Some that are light and are known for climbing & acceleration.
My current wheels are Protons.
Any advice will be appreciated.



Thanks

[old fat man]

buy lightweight ventoux's.

seriously though, you have to offer more background than you did in the original post

- price range?
- your weight?
- tubular or clincher?
- carbon or aluminum?
- campy (maybe, because you currently ride protons)?
- lbs or online?

[SEABREEZE]

Speak to Ergott, many on the forum have wheels built by him. I beleive I read he has a personal pair that weigh in at 9OO + gram range .

[spincoast]

You're right old fat man I didn't give you much to bo on, so;

-My weight right now is 175, hopefully I'll get that down to 150 or so.
-I'm staying with clinchers.
-Aluminun, preferably something with a more traditional look of a box rim, they're going on a Luigino so i want to keep it more traditional looking.
-Campy would be nice but they don't need to be.
-I'd like to support my lbs as they support me because I'm such a lousy mechanic but if they were deeply discounted online then........

Thanks to you and SEABREEZE as well.

[oldpotatoe]

You're right old fat man I didn't give you much to bo on, so;

-My weight right now is 175, hopefully I'll get that down to 150 or so.
-I'm staying with clinchers.
-Aluminun, preferably something with a more traditional look of a box rim, they're going on a Luigino so i want to keep it more traditional looking.
-Campy would be nice but they don't need to be.
-I'd like to support my lbs as they support me because I'm such a lousy mechanic but if they were deeply discounted online then........

Thanks to you and SEABREEZE as well.

DT hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims, 24h front(you promise to be at 150??) DT Rev spokes, 28 rear, 1/2 Revs, 1/2 DT comps..built well.

If box section rims, DT 415 up front and rear, 28h, same spoke/hub choices.

[mandasol]

Just as an observation from someone that weighs close to you (165-170) and has more alloy clincher wheelsets than I really need...

100-200 grams weight savings for the wheelset doesn't really make much seat of pants difference at least in my experience. I'd shoot for at least 300 or more grams weight savings for the wheelset, 400 grams or more would be great. I think protons are listed at around ~1660 grams, though if you factor in about 5% variation your wheels may be up to ~1740 grams. So if you say your wheels are roughly 1700 grams and you want to subtract ~400 you have get close to a 1300 gram wheelset, which is easy to do with your requirements if you go with handbuilts. Manufacturer alloy clinchers are going to be very few if any in that range, and you may find a few branded wheels that are actually handbuilts with someone else's sticker on them.

With handbuilts you're basically limited to either Kinlin XR200 or Stan's Alpha 340 if you want to stay with alloy clinchers. I think there are some other light rims out there that are proprietary to manufacturers that aren't available for custom wheel builds. I believe Alex has a new light rim that may be out now as well. I have wheelsets built with both the Kinlins and Stans. They're both comparably stiff with each other though I like the tire profile on the Stan's a little better, makes the tire wider so you can run it at a lower pressure which is all the rage these days. The rim side walls are really thin on the Stan's though, and only just a little better on the Kinlins. The rims actually look about the same next to each other since they have near the same depth, with the Stan's slightly rounder, and the Kinlins a little sharper edged. The Stan's is a little wider as well but hard to tell by the naked eye. I think the stan's look a little more nicely made as well. The kinlins have a bit of a rough finish to them.

I use Sapim CX-rays on most of my wheels and they are fine. I have a set with DT Aerolite and they are basically the same. You're going to have to stick with light weight spokes to hit the target, CX-rays, Lasers, DT aerolites. Talk to the builder about how many you need. On my kinlins I have 20front, though in the rear it was recommended to go with 28, however I decided to go with the XR270 rim and 24 spokes. That wheelset came out to exactly 1300 grams with veloplugs. On my stans I have 24 front and 28 rear, though I have the rear mounted to a powertap so the set comes out to over 1500 grams. If you factor out the extra weight of the powertap that wheel would weigh close to or less than the Kinlin set.

There are lots of hubs that'll get you in the range you need, just pick your price point and find what is available in that price in the weight range you need. Since the rims are light go with the hubs and spoke pattern that'll help stiffen up the wheels better, ask the builder about that. I wouldn't worry about types of bearings, steel, ceramic, sealed, cup and cone, they're all fine and it's near impossible to tell a difference. I like cup and cone though cause it's really easy to service and adjust preload. A lot of the light weight hubs don't have a way to adjust preload, and if they develop a little play you're just stuck with it.

With all that being said. Light weight wheels have their pro's and con's, and in some climbing situations aren't really that great. In very steep grades where you need to get out of the saddle the light wheels flex more and seem to waste some of your energy. Also, everything that goes up needs to come down, and really light wheels aren't very confidence inspiring going down turns. I've noticed both of those faults with both of my light wheels. So in situations that I know I'll have to hammer up steep steep sections and negotiate tricky descents I actually prefer stiffer 32 spoke (front and rear) wheels.

Light wheels are a lot of fun because they just accelerate so quickly so they are great for sudden speed changes, not so much for steady tempo stuff. However, there are also theory's that wheels that spin up faster also slow down faster vs heavier wheels that spin up slower but keep their momentum so it's a wash as far as benefits, and it's basically the overall weight of the bike & rider that counts.

For most of my riding I'm leaning more towards a sturdier wheel with more spokes. I had a set of wheels with Velocity aeroheads 28ft/32rr with CX-Rays on white industries that where close to my idea of a perfect all round wheelset. I really like the velocity rims, so I just got another set with the A23 rims 32ft/32rr CX-Rays on Dura Ace hubs that I'm looking forward to trying out on a new to me build I'm putting together - a Serotta CSI that I'm planning to post pictures soon.

Since you have a nice all round wheelset with the protons adding a light weight set will be a nice option to have.

[SEABREEZE]

DT hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims, 24h front(you promise to be at 150??) DT Rev spokes, 28 rear, 1/2 Revs, 1/2 DT comps..built well.

If box section rims, DT 415 up front and rear, 28h, same spoke/hub choices.


I would fill just as comfortable with OP as Ergott in building up a quality wheel set Spincoast.

[cmg]

the other place to save weight is the tire/tube combo and rim tape. use a sub 200g tire in the rear and a conti supersonic in the front with 50-55g tubes and ritchey rim tape. as far as preventing/reducing flex on light rims, increase the number of spokes.

[spincoast]

Lots of great info.

Thanks to all for all the great advice.

[akelman]

Another thought: I'm about fifteen pounds over my ideal riding weight. I've told myself that if I lose those pounds and keep them off for six months, I'll then buy myself an ultralight set of wheels.

The point of the above is to a) provide an incentive for further weight loss; b) acknowledge that until I lose that weight, a few hundred grams from my wheels isn't going to make a huge difference the next time I'm climbing; and c) deal with the fact that really lightweight wheels are best suited to really light riders.

You may all start calling me fatty starting...now!

[yakstone]

Fatty!
or is it FAT Bastard!

[akelman]

Mom says to tell you that I'm really just big-boned.

[old_fat_and_slow]

Another thought: You may all start calling me fatty starting...now!

Sorry, but that moniker is already taken by yours truly. How about Chubby, Chubster, or Lumpy?

[fogrider]

these:
http://www.reynoldscycling.com/index.php?p_resource=items_wheels_item&p_itm_pk=594

pro: super light rims, wicket fast acceleration at any speed, great handling, tubular tires

cons: dedicated pads, $$$, tubular tires

[LesMiner]

The HED Ardennes weight may not be 1300 grams but it is really great wheel. This wheel also had the wider rim design to improve ride comfort and reduce air drag.
HED Ardennes (http://hedcycling.com/ardennes/default.asp?content=FR)

[jr59]

DT hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims, 24h front(you promise to be at 150??) DT Rev spokes, 28 rear, 1/2 Revs, 1/2 DT comps..built well.

If box section rims, DT 415 up front and rear, 28h, same spoke/hub choices.

Not to thread hijack;
But I really do enjoy your overall insight into this sport.
Thanks!

[ergott]

DT hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims, 24h front(you promise to be at 150??) DT Rev spokes, 28 rear, 1/2 Revs, 1/2 DT comps..built well.

If box section rims, DT 415 up front and rear, 28h, same spoke/hub choices.

Thread Drift:

Just curious as to what features of the DT hubs you like most. Have you worked with the White Industries (cost less) or Alchemy hubs (cost more) in comparison?

The only time I really like working with the DT is for Campy wheels with higher spoke counts where I know the decreased lateral stiffness won't be an issue for the rider. For Shimano, I'd much rather use Dura Ace which is similar in cost.

[oldpotatoe]

Thread Drift:

Just curious as to what features of the DT hubs you like most. Have you worked with the White Industries (cost less) or Alchemy hubs (cost more) in comparison?

The only time I really like working with the DT is for Campy wheels with higher spoke counts where I know the decreased lateral stiffness won't be an issue for the rider. For Shimano, I'd much rather use Dura Ace which is similar in cost.

Not thrilled with a set screw crammed into an aluminum axle for hub adjust.

DA and Record hubs are cheaper than DT, my first choice for a wheelbuild are DA/6700 or Record. DT for bling. I like Alchemy as well, great design but expensive, as you mentioned.

Don't think the RH center to flange is really an issue in terms of any 'decreased lateral stiffness' for DT or Record hubs...built a few with these hubs(about 2000 or so)...

I get all my rims from Paceline so hubs are easy as well(get good pricing).

I like DT, simple, have the tool kit to remove the ratchet ring..like 'em.

Also like Miche for Campagnolo wheels. I don't do a lot of carbon, no low spoke count stuff, almost no mixed gauges, no radial fronts or LH rears...I'm very conservative in my wheel philosophy. Not much whizbangery. Build about 400 or so per year, have for 2 decades. DT spokes only, Ambrosio, DT, Velocity, Mavic rims.

[gregblow]

shimano dura ace tubless

[Louis]

I'm not a wheel expert, but IMO the best hub + rim combinations can be one of two things:

1) An inexpensive hub that dies at about the same time as the rim, so you just trash the whole thing, or,

2) A more expensive but sturdy hub that allows you to somewhat easily replace all bearing wear surfaces so when the the rim dies you re-use the hub. Or, if the bearings go bad before the rim, you just replace them (presumably at relatively low cost) and keep using the whole thing.

Louis

Just curious as to what features of the DT hubs you like most. Have you worked with the White Industries (cost less) or Alchemy hubs (cost more) in comparison?

The only time I really like working with the DT is for Campy wheels with higher spoke counts where I know the decreased lateral stiffness won't be an issue for the rider. For Shimano, I'd much rather use Dura Ace which is similar in cost.

[ergott]

I'm not a wheel expert, but IMO the best hub + rim combinations can be one of two things:

1) An inexpensive hub that dies at about the same time as the rim, so you just trash the whole thing, or,

2) A more expensive but sturdy hub that allows you to somewhat easily replace all bearing wear surfaces so when the the rim dies you re-use the hub. Or, if the bearings go bad before the rim, you just replace them (presumably at relatively low cost) and keep using the whole thing.

Louis

Unfortunately, I've been asked more than once to replace a bad hub wrapped in a perfectly good rim. That's the worst case in my book. Hubs shouldn't be disposable.

[spincoast]

Hi All,

I've been away for a a couple days, its great to see more posts on this.
Once again, thanks to all for the great info and links. I haven't made my mind up yet on what to buy but I'm sure I'll make a wiser choice as a result of all the help here.

sc

[old_fat_and_slow]

Extralite Hyperclinch, 1150g all alloy, no carbon, italian-made schizzle

http://www.extralite.com/index_euro.htm


http://www.extralite.com/imagesbike/HyperClinch%20SP%20post1.jpg

http://www.extralite.com/imagesbike/HyperClinch%20SP%20ant1.jpg

http://www.extralite.com/imagesbike/HyperClinch%20SP%20post3.jpg

http://www.extralite.com/imagesbike/HyperClinch%20SP%20ant2.jpg