Italy OT

[coylifut]

Next summer will be me and my wife’s 10-year anniversary. She's always wanted to travel to Italy, so I thought I'd surprise her and arrange the whole thing. The problem is, I don’t know where to start. I figure we’ll spend two weeks taking in the country. I tend to plan way ahead and I’m looking for ideas, comments, tips, what to do, what to avoid………Are any of the organized tours worth while? Oh, I’m leaving the bike at home. Your thoughts please!

[ada@prorider.or]

Next summer will be me and my wife’s 10-year anniversary. She's always wanted to travel to Italy, so I thought I'd surprise her and arrange the whole thing. The problem is, I don’t know where to start. I figure we’ll spend two weeks taking in the country. I tend to plan way ahead and I’m looking for ideas, comments, tips, what to do, what to avoid………Are any of the organized tours worth while? Oh, I’m leaving the bike at home. Your thoughts please!

great idea
i think start in toscane go florance to siena up to rome cross the country to the othet cost then the way up to venetia
from there you could take day trips to the mountains
overall you would see a lot
fly back a milan so you visit milan you wife would love it
if you go to ravenna go to censinatico and go to
graff of pantani
i beleive that andy hampsten organise some trips there
the most cyclist are living in toscane
florance -siena
http://www.rockypeakproductions.com/Tour%20de%20Steamboat%20site/Andy.htm
have a great trip and do not drink to much chianti

[spiderman]

and instead of ragbrai
we're thinking of base camping in florence
and daytripping in the region...

[flydhest]

What sort of experience are you looking for? How comfortable are you either a) in Italian or b) getting by without speaking the language. I personally find travelling in case b) to be a lot of fun (however, I can get by in enough languages that it doesn't happen so often anymore.)

Will cycling be involved or does the spousal unit not bike?

I had a great time in Tuscany. I was cycling, but there's a great deal to do if you're not. It is getting more touristy, however. The NYTimes just had a new article on le Marche:
http://travel2.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/travel/22tuscany.html

We have family friends up in the Dolomites. Breathtaking scenery and good eats to boot (pun intended).

My suggestion for you would be to see if you can swing two, but only two, regions on your trip. Say, somewhere up North and then drive down to central Italy. Lots of people have a somewhat monolithic view of Italy, so it can be wonderfully informative and eye-opening to see the enormous regional variation. For me, given my obsessions with the culinary, I love the variation in food and wine, but geography and culture (both of which obviously affect food and wine) vary a lot as well. I'd say do something mountainous in the North for a week, then drive down to either Tuscany or further south. Florence and Siena are in Tuscany, so if cities turn you on, there's that, plus the Tuscan country side is nifty. Rome (further south) is a huge, bustling city unlike any other and the coastline is worth driving along in any region.

The logic between my "choose exactly two" is that, from my perspective, it's good to have enough time to actually get a feeling for a place, which for me usually takes at least a week. But, you want to be able to see the contrast between regions, and since you said about two weeks, that strikes me as the optimal number of regions, two.

[e-RICHIE]

www.cinghiale.com

[flydhest]

if you're riding, listen to e-richie. I had the pleasure of riding for a day with Signore Hampsten. I was at the Carpenter/Phinney bike camp www.bikecamp.com and on the optional day off, Andy came by. We did about 50 miles of glorious rolling riding with a stop for espresso in a cafe. Very affable and great riding. The Carpenter/Phinney camp is also top notch and they make special allowances for couples where one is riding and one is not. Plus, Davis and Connie are great, great people.

[Ozz]

concur...dont' miss Florence...but, be sure to drink too much chianti. Buy gold and leather at the Ponte Vecchio and San Lorenzo & Nuovo (be sure to rub the boar's nose) marketplaces.

You don't really need a tour if you find a good travel agent that can work out your itinerary. Stay at hotels with english speaking concierges to make dinner reservations, arrange taxis, etc...I did the backpack thing without speaking a lick of "eye-talian"! You just have to stumble thru it it and laugh a lot.

Venice is a tourist trap....Rome is a big, dirty city....they both have their charm and are places to go before you die. ;)

You are going to have a great trip!

[coylifut]

What sort of experience are you looking for? How comfortable are you either a) in Italian or b) getting by without speaking the language. I personally find travelling in case b) to be a lot of fun (however, I can get by in enough languages that it doesn't happen so often anymore.)

Will cycling be involved or does the spousal unit not bike?

I had a great time in Tuscany. I was cycling, but there's a great deal to do if you're not. It is getting more touristy, however. The NYTimes just had a new article on le Marche:
http://travel2.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/travel/22tuscany.html

We have family friends up in the Dolomites. Breathtaking scenery and good eats to boot (pun intended).

My suggestion for you would be to see if you can swing two, but only two, regions on your trip. Say, somewhere up North and then drive down to central Italy. Lots of people have a somewhat monolithic view of Italy, so it can be wonderfully informative and eye-opening to see the enormous regional variation. For me, given my obsessions with the culinary, I love the variation in food and wine, but geography and culture (both of which obviously affect food and wine) vary a lot as well. I'd say do something mountainous in the North for a week, then drive down to either Tuscany or further south. Florence and Siena are in Tuscany, so if cities turn you on, there's that, plus the Tuscan country side is nifty. Rome (further south) is a huge, bustling city unlike any other and the coastline is worth driving along in any region.

The logic between my "choose exactly two" is that, from my perspective, it's good to have enough time to actually get a feeling for a place, which for me usually takes at least a week. But, you want to be able to see the contrast between regions, and since you said about two weeks, that strikes me as the optimal number of regions, two.

I don't speak Italian, but have never found it a problem not to speak the local language. I was in the airline industry for 10 years and traveled throughout the world. I seem to pick up the necessary words and phrases quite fast, especially Latin languages. I took both Spanish and French in school and although I don't speak either fluently, I can always order a beer, find the WC and get in the right queue.

The experience I'm looking for is taking in the city and village life with lots of wandering, shopping and eating. Some drives in the country would be great as well. I like being a tourist. The wife and I like to walk allot and look at the local landscape and architecture. There will be no bikes. My wife supports my cycling in earnest, but she deserves some time solely focused on her and far from my cycling.

I’m enjoying the info. Keep it coming.

[Tom]

The square in Siena is the only place in the world where in a town I stopped dead in my tracks and said "Holy ****!" when I saw a spot. Coming out of the tiny streets into the square where they run the Palio did that. It is the most perfectly proportioned city square there is. I don't have to see them all, I know it already.

Little towns like Montalcino up on the hill are really cool. I think it was there where the guy that was manning the desk at the hotel we stayed overnight abandoned his post to take us down the street to the wine store where we spent an hour listening to him tell us all about the wines (tasting several) and which bottle we should get for our friend that asked us to bring her one good one.

Florence is a place you can spend days and days just looking at everything.

In my opinion, the best times are in the smallest towns.

[leftyfreak]

My wife's a violinist, so we just HAD to go to the town of Cremona, home of the legendary violinmakers Stradavari, Guarneri, and Amati. Seeing the masterpieces of these makers in the museum literally made her cry. Cremona is also a great town to visit if you want to avoid the tourist crowds...

On the other hand, you should go to Venice, which will never be mistaken for a tourist-free area. It's truly a remarkable place, but it has the distinct feeling of being a Disneyland-type theme park.

For a mellow time, we loved Varenna on Lake Como, which was much more relaxed than Bellagio. There's a two thousand year old fortress in the mountains above the town where you can observe the landscape, and watch the local falconer train his birds of prey.

Essentially, it's pretty hard to go wrong in Italy. Enjoy the planning and have fun!

Lefty

[97CSI]

If this is your first trip, you might find a tour to be to your liking. Lots of them available. Just stick with one that has some history. We (wife and I) have been going to Europe since 1967 (when she went to college in France), so we always head out on our own (TdF and Bordeaux this year). To start with get a copy of Foder's and most any of the other guides at your local bookstore. They are invaluable with the type of information you will need on what to see, where to stay, eat, etc. A tour will take this decision making out of your hands, but you should still have the guide to see where you want to go and help you select the right tour. In Italy you won't want to miss a few days in Tuscany, Florence, Rome and Venice. I would skip Venice if I had to forgo any of the places above, as it has become so tourist driven. Milan is also nice, but can be very industrial. Catania is nice, if you want to head south. But, like much of Italy that is off the beaten path (few tourists), the locals will not speak English. There are lots of bike tours in Tuscany. From mild to wild, if that meets your needs. But start with a current guide book. Have fun.

[Bauch]

It could be the most overwhelmingly beautiful place on Earth. I went for the first time last June, and it was just amazing.

I completely concur with Tom's remarks about the the Piazza del Campo in Siena. It will leave you speechless. I also enjoyed the best pizza on the trip (and perhaps ever in my life) in Siena. I believe the place is called Ristorante alla Speranza, and it has a pizzeria side and a restaurant side. You can get pizza on either side, and it's worth it. Dine outside with a view of the piazza.

As long as I'm recommending eateries in Tuscany, try Osteria alla Piazza. We ate there twice, and could have easily justified eating there more than that! It is located near Castellina in Chianti. I recall passing over a small stone bridge off of S222 (the main road through Tuscany) and hanging a right toward the locality of La Piazza.

In any case, if you end up hitting major cities, I recommend doing them first, before going somewhere like Tuscany. While Rome is an amazing city, one day there can easily undo the calming effect of a week in Tuscany.

I'm jealous! :rolleyes:

[coylifut]

great tips.

[amper]

If you or your wife like chocolate you must go to http://www.amedei.it/index.html Alessio and Cecilia make the finest chocolate I have ever tasted. 70% cocoa, the Porcelana and Chuao bars are nirvana.

[Tom Byrnes]

Terry,

I have been to Italy on at least five other occasions and leave next Wednesday for another two-week trip to Italy. So, I concur completely with your destination choice. Great people; beautiful country.

I agree with Flydhest's statement that it can take a week for you (or anyone else) to get a good feel for a particular area. But, that is easier for me to say that now since I have been there a few times before.

There are certainly some advantages to seeing more than just two locations in a two-week trip, as Italy has a wealth of different historical and geographical sights. While a whirlwind tour through Italy will leave you tired, you will certainly see many wonderful places and will vow that you will return again soon.

I can visualize a great two-week Italian road trip if you want to see a lot of this wonderful country and don't mind driving. Fly into Milan, head north to the nearby Lake Como - Lake Maggiore area near Switzerland. Then head towards the west coast. The highway from Milan to San Remo takes you through some beautiful countryside. You may also want to travel on some of the route of the classic Milano-San Remo race. Lots of hilltop towns. The road from San Remo down the coast to Pisa will take you near Positano and the Cinque Terre area.

Head east from Pisa towards Florence. Then after staying in Florence, travel on the old road that runs along the hilltops past all of the vineyards to Siena. That road is part of the route of the famous Mille Miglia historic car race. Tuscany will roll out in front of you on both sides as you drive along the ridge.

Head to Rome - a great, easy-to-navigate big city after you park the car. If you still have some time available after Rome, take a three-hour drive to the Amalfi Coast, staying in Sorrento or Positano. Fly home from Rome.

You will find that you will want to spend at least a few days, and probably a week, in any of those areas. Your two weeks will go by very quickly. And there are other special areas, especially Venice and the Dolomites, that I did not include.

For our trip, we will be staying in beautiful Siena for a week, making day trips to the nearby medieval hilltop towns in Tuscany - San Gimignano, Volterra, Cortona, Pienza, Montepulciano, et al. As others have stated, Siena is magnificient. The town square has remained unchanged for years.

Siena is also very centrally located for seeing Tuscany and the neighboring areas. We will also go to Florence, the center of which is literally an outdoor Renaissance museum. In both Siena and Florence, cars are banned in the historic center sections, so you will get to walk a lot. I also want to see the walled city of Lucca (coincidentally, Cipo's hometown), the coastal town of Cecina (Bettini's hometown), historic Pistoia (Petacchi's hometown, I think) and Cesanatico (the Pantani Memorial). Of course, it's not like I expect to see Cipo, Bettini or Petacchi sitting around the town square signing autographs or in a cycling shop, but I want to see those cities anyway. There are plenty of "legitimate reasons" for dragging my traveling companions to those towns, as I cannot make the trips to those areas solely to satisfy my cycling interests. ;) ;) ;)

After Siena, we will go to Rome for a few nights just because it is such a great city (we spent a week there three years ago). Rome is a great town for walking around and sightseeing. After our travelling companions leave from Rome, Debbie and I will drive down to the Amalfi Coast, staying in Positano, for the last few days.

There are many great travel books on Italy besides Fodor. I particularly like the travel books published by Insight Guides and DK. Lots of information and great color photographs. I would suggest that you start reading now and decide what you want to see on your trip. It's great fun just getting ready for a trip. You will discover what you want to see.

Enjoy the reading and planning. :) :) :)

Tom

[weisan]

WOW!!! That sounds like FUN FUN FUN, Tom. Enjoy your time at Italy with the family. ;)

weisan

http://www.tourvacationstogo.com/maps/img-3449.jpg

[Tom Byrnes]

Thanks, Weisan.


Tom

[Birddog]

Yeah, what he said.

Tom said it pretty well. If you like the small and out of the way places, then by all means stop for a day in the Cinque Terra area. Florence and Rome are must see, I'd allow 3 days for Florence and at least two, probably three for Rome. Venice is OK if you have a day to burn. The lakes region is beautiful. Positano is too. So much to see, so little time. I've always felt that it is better to cover less ground more thoroughly than a lot of ground superficially. Although rather extensive, Tom's itinerary would make a very good sampler. Not as contrived as a tour group, a lot more soul and not just the "castles and Cathedrals" (with a ruin or two thrown in) view of Italy that tour groups tend to have.

Birddog