OT: Cross Country /backcountry skiing

[beungood]

I know its toward the middle /end of the season but Ive beeen Cross Country skiing to keep active while the roads are horrible. Ive did alot of skiing this winter and rented back country skis from REI and some rentals from Windblown XC center and now am seeing some deals and figure I should take advantage of them.

I started last year at a XC touring center and continued on this year but added trail breaking at a local State park (Old Military Ammo depot) and found I enjoy that more. I figured i would put together a few skis that could serve me .

I thought of a Backcountry toruing ski on the skinner side with either metal edges full 3/4 or tips & tail somewhere around 62cm-65 cm at the tip and NNN -BC Bindings. am considering Rossignol BC65's , Alpina tracker, Rossignol Silent Spider. And I have someone who wants to sell me Karhu XCD GT waxable with NNN bindings for $40.

I also happened upon a set of Rossignol BC X-11 75mm boots brand new for $100 so I picked them up thinking thaat I could use a heavier binding for more remote areas and hilly decents. Plus ive recently found some fischer Outbound Crowns for a song down in Ri all ready set up for them. Im also looking at Fischer Europas and an e-99 both with 3 pin bindings already mounted for very short money. I'm intrested in skiing around or down Mount Greylock as crazy as this sounds..

I wanted a mix of waxable skis and a waxless for warmer or changing conditions and waxable for colder. This hobby seems almost as addicting as Cycling....

I thought this forum would have some people who could give me some advice...

[Dekonick]

Wish there was xc around where I live :(

[gasman]

I have a few different skis and they all serve a purpose. I have about 6 pairs from over the years. I've found on the west side of the Cascades I use my waxless metal edge skis for backcountry use 99% of the time. I have some wax race skis that I rarely use and some wax skate skis that I use a lot. Really it depends on what you are doing.You need fairly stable snow temps to not pull your hair out using wax skis. The waxless gear is very good these days. It is amazing what you can do on light gear though. I've been around Crater Lake in the winter several times using light boots, skis and bindings-I just carry a small repair kit-screws,extra binding, epoxy, power drive for the group. Never had a problem.
Lots of great choices out there and you can't go wrong with any of them you make but the 3 pin system is pretty old school.

[konstantkarma]

I miss cross country/ backcountry skiing. Very few consistent opportunities here in Maryland. If you plan any area telemarking I suggest getting full metal edges on a lighter ski that can be used also for touring. Also, heavier boots and bindings would be a good idea. It is hard to find a single ski that will do everything well, but light touring/ light telemarking skis are a good start.

As you noted waxless skis are best for wetter hard packing snows, but if you plan on any cold weather tours waxable skis are the way to go. Also with waxables you have the option of a stckier kick wax on the center of the ski with gliding wax on the tips and tails. There are lots of modern great options for whatever you decide to do. I just returned from a trip to Colorado, and rented nice telemark stuff for area skiing that i also used for a couple of backcountry tours. For this I used skins instead of wax so I didn't have to wax the rental skis. I also rented some waxless skis to ski tracks at a flat nordic center. It was all good, and lots of fun.........enjoy your new passion! :banana:

[mtb_frk]

My first and only pair of skis is the BC65. Where I live we get some good snow then it usually turns to icy packed snow pretty quickly. They seem to work good in either, and the metal edges are nice when there isnt much of a track. I think that I may get into racing next year, so I will be looking for something faster, but these seem like a good all purpose ski.

[christian]

XCDs, Outbound Crowns, Europas, and E99s are all good skis. Just a matter how much you want to prioritize glide versus downhill ability.

I ski a pair of the original XCD GTs with Rottefellas. I'm happy with them as a bash-around ski for carriage ways and hiking trails, as they have nice kick and glide, but at 210cm and fairly stiff double camber, they take a pretty good skier on anything but gentle slopes. I paid $10 for mine, but $40 is a fair deal if they're in good shape.

[Karin Kirk]

Sounds like you are definitely going for the quiver approach! Just like bikes, there is a ski for every purpose. My advice would not be to buy too many skis at once - at least not until you flesh out just what sort of skiing will really appeal to you and what your taste in skis turns out to be.

A basic metal-edged touring ski is a great workhorse ski that you can use in lots of conditions. If you go with waxable it's more important that the ski length and flex are suited to your weight so that the wax pocket is engaged when you want it to be. Nothing is suckier than getting the wax wrong or the ski flex wrong and spending a lot of time slipping backwards while traveling uphill.

Personally I'm a fan of no-wax skis because for me touring is a simple pleasure that I like to do spontaneously and without any thought of getting the wax correct. But if you are into zen and the art of waxing, then it can be satisfying to go with waxable skis. Maybe this is like the clincher vs tubular preference.

As for descents - the setups you mentioned will work. They are a bit dated and might not be too great when it comes to turning, but if that's not your focus, then why not go with the temptingly cheap gear. If this turns out to be stuff that you love, you can always upgrade later. There is a large continuum of touring gear that goes all the way up to the full plastic-booted tele setup.

Yes, this is definitely as addictive and as gear-intensive as cycling. Of course, that is all part of the fun! :)

[djg]

I miss cross country/ backcountry skiing. Very few consistent opportunities here in Maryland. If you plan any area telemarking I suggest getting full metal edges on a lighter ski that can be used also for touring. Also, heavier boots and bindings would be a good idea. It is hard to find a single ski that will do everything well, but light touring/ light telemarking skis are a good start.

As you noted waxless skis are best for wetter hard packing snows, but if you plan on any cold weather tours waxable skis are the way to go. Also with waxables you have the option of a stckier kick wax on the center of the ski with gliding wax on the tips and tails. There are lots of modern great options for whatever you decide to do. I just returned from a trip to Colorado, and rented nice telemark stuff for area skiing that i also used for a couple of backcountry tours. For this I used skins instead of wax so I didn't have to wax the rental skis. I also rented some waxless skis to ski tracks at a flat nordic center. It was all good, and lots of fun.........enjoy your new passion! :banana:

Rode a chair with some telemarkers at Alta a couple of weeks ago and it turned out one of the guys was from around here (DC area) -- said he'd been the only tele skier at Wintergreen the week before. No idea where one goes for back country skiing in the area, unless it's Dulles or BWI. Maybe higher up in WVa?

To make the thread drift even more shocking . . . so I had to leave my skis in my car because I missed the 45 minute baggage check-in cut-off by 2 minutes (nice little sprint back to the lot and then back to the terminal) . . . so I rented some boards that I reckon are pretty modest-to-mid wide by Western standards but way, way wider than the 70mm underfoot that I'm used to. Dynastar 6th Sense -- effin' loved them on just about everything.

[Karin Kirk]

. . . so I rented some boards that I reckon are pretty modest-to-mid wide by Western standards but way, way wider than the 70mm underfoot that I'm used to. Dynastar 6th Sense -- effin' loved them on just about everything.

Nice! Missing the baggage check was probably a blessing. Fat skis are so much fun on soft snow. Good choice. :)

[endosch2]

I have about 10 pair of different skiis. I do mostly skate skiing on groomed trail systems here in NH and do some back woods trail breaking. I have 4 pairs of good skate skiis, 2 pairs of rockers for spring/ early season, two pairs of wider waxless skiis for out the door non groomed skiing. I also have two pairs of classic race type skiis for groomed tracks.

I have always made due with long and light waxless classic skiis going out the back door. I am not sure why you would want the metal edge unless you thought you would get to some downhill/ tele skiing kind of backcountry skiing.

If you are an exercise junky I would recommend learning how to skate ski and getting in to that. I do that 90% of the time.

The best thing to do is take a lesson (or a bunch of lessons). Nordic skiing is all technique related so lessons are key.

[beungood]

I took a lesson with some cycling friendss at windblown last year and was hooked from the get go. I like metal edges as the classics seemed really hard to turn in some out of ther way sectons when it was icy or packed. I did some trail breaking at a few state parks with some rentals ( Fischer back country crown BC ,NNN-bc bindings and Rossignol bc x-5 boots)and found I preferred it to groomers.

Also the guy helping me back into military did the Nordic military race and was saying at my level ski both and use lighter gear or excercise and heavier 3 pin for some of the more rugged and hilly places. As a swettener, he said I coukld probably get on the biathlon team and get issued some gear to allow me to save money on my quiver. I kind of liked the long roads at that old abandoned base and brewaking through powder down long straight aways..

And my looking for the 30's area Thunderbolt run down the side of Mass's highest peak,Mount Greylock, and climbing then xc'ing down it is intriguing. I want to ski it,then comeback to climb it with my Hors Cat when its warmer ..

[beungood]

Wow,Alot of great advice as usual! On the lighter end of the spectrum anyone ski both NNN -BC and Salomon Bc and XA -raid bc bindings/ Ive heard a few say the Salomon might handle better?

Snows coming this way.. :banana:

[AngryScientist]

bump

i have never tried cross country skiing, but seeing all the cool carriage roads in minnewaska state park has me considering.

i think, if my local REI or someplace offers rental equipment, that would be the way to go to flesh out what i would want.

do you guys think that for someone who knows the basics of downhill skiing, lessons would be required, or just grab some equipment, watch some videos for basic technique and hit the trails?

[adampaiva]

@Angry I forget if Minnewaska has rentals but Rock & Snow in New Paltz does. Either daily or for the season. I’ve rented every time I’ve gone but think I’m going to buy a setup in the next couple weeks. Wish I would have thought of this in the off-season for some clearance deals. My plan is to buy waxless 50/50 groomed/back-country type skis with partial meta edge. Think it will Be Fischer Spider 62 Touring. Maybe I’ll add in some dedicated groomed skate skis if I find cheap used ones.

Lessons are not necessary. I learned in a day on a 9 mile ski into a cabin deep in the woods accessible only by ski or snowmobile. Once you get the hang of it you can move to harder trails with more elevation change and turns.

It’s really fun. I think an excellent winter activity for someone into cycling.

[Vientomas]

bump

i have never tried cross country skiing, but seeing all the cool carriage roads in minnewaska state park has me considering.

i think, if my local REI or someplace offers rental equipment, that would be the way to go to flesh out what i would want.

do you guys think that for someone who knows the basics of downhill skiing, lessons would be required, or just grab some equipment, watch some videos for basic technique and hit the trails?

Are you skate skiing or classic skiing? Either one can be learned without lessons if you have a downhill skiing background. There are differences in equipment between skate and classic skiing and skating generally requires a nicely groomed trail while classic does not. If your goal is to plonk around on ungroomed roads or trails, or where there is no groomed skate track, classic gear is your best bet. You don't need a racing ski or boot for that, a good middle of the road recreational ski and boot would be good enough. I would look at getting a "no wax" ski. I find "kick waxing" to be a bit of a pain. Have fun!

[schwa86]

I've increasingly gotten into XC during the winter months, great exercise and beats the fluid trainer in the basement. There are so many places to go if you have any kind of snowfall -- from golf courses to state parks to more elaborate and groomed trails systems. I am self taught (mostly) but have benefited from having more expert friends. As with anything, if you want to go bang around the woods on skis, you can have fun and get good exercise without a lot of complexity. If you want to go really fast, have great form, etc., the. You'd probably benefit from lessons. I fall into the former category. As a side note, as with PL, there is plenty of cheap serviceable used equipment out there. After messing with various set ups, I've opted for the gravel grinder version of skis -- a mid width, steel edged, backcountry set up that is great for getting out in the woods.

[merlinmurph]

Are you skate skiing or classic skiing? Either one can be learned without lessons if you have a downhill skiing background.

Hmmm, I'm no sure about this with skate skiing. Skate skiing is all technique, and if you don't learn right, you're just going to flail - a lot - and get exhausted going nowhere really slowly. Been there. Skating with XC skis is nothing like skating on alpine skis.

Classic is the easiest, esp with no-wax skis, plus you don't need a groomed track.

My 2 cents,
Murph

[Vientomas]

Hmmm, I'm no sure about this with skate skiing. Skate skiing is all technique, and if you don't learn right, you're just going to flail - a lot - and get exhausted going nowhere really slowly. Been there. Skating with XC skis is nothing like skating on alpine skis.

Classic is the easiest, esp with no-wax skis, plus you don't need a groomed track.

My 2 cents,
Murph

I found skate xc skiing to be very similar to skating on alpine gear. My opinion is if you can skate across the flats on alpine gear with proper technique, you can skate on xc skis quite easily. My .02 cents. Heck, I can skate on my long classic no wax skis without much difficulty. I did race alpine technical events (slalom and GS) for 10 years or so, perhaps that's the difference.

[geordanh]

I found skate xc skiing to be very similar to skating on alpine gear. My opinion is if you can skate across the flats on alpine gear with proper technique, you can skate on xc skis quite easily. My .02 cents. Heck, I can skate on my long classic no wax skis without much difficulty. I did race alpine technical events (slalom and GS) for 10 years or so, perhaps that's the difference.

I totally agree. I had only ever done downhill and classic, but tried skating for the first time last year and got completely, totally hooked. It blew my mind. I think it's actually more thrilling and satisfying than cycling in many ways. While different certainly than skating across the flats on downhill skis, it's not that different.

Can't wait to get up this year. I usually just mope about craving cycling when the weather's bad, but I've found myself craving skate skiing when the weather was good this summer and fall. So much fun. Entering a race this year. We'll see how it goes!!

[fignon's barber]

Lived in Michigan for 20 years and used cross country racing/training as a big part of my cycling fitness program (both classic and skating). For you guys just getting into it and wanting to try it on ungroomed golf courses and the like: get a cheap touring ski ( if you get a performance classic ski or skate ski, it will be too narrow and sink down too much). If you are lucky enough to have access to groomed trails, look for "combi" equipment. It works for both classic and skating very well. If anyone has specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

[merckx]

A reasonable, versatile set of skis are 60mm shovel, and traditional length. The Fischer Country is a perfect example. They will allow you to ski on and off track. You don't need BC boots. Don't be pulled into the short ski concept. They were designed for the US market to accommodate novice skiers who move with their weight centered between the skis. Metal edges are fine if you find yourself mostly on hard, icy snowmobile trails. If you are mostly on golf courses, bike paths, or other areas with un-groomed snow, the metal edges will never be employed. Same if you ski on groomed touring center trails. In my quiver of skis, I still have a pair of Fischer Countrys, and they get pressed into service a surprising amount.

[mattnes17]

Having only classic skied in Minnesota most my life until 2 years ago, I found skate extremely fun. Much more challenging to learn the basics, but highly rewarding and great training!

I'm working on my ski quiver. Aside my cheap and burnt out skate skis i'm hoping to get some metal edge/waxless fellas for romping around off groomed trails in the Boundary Waters.:bike:

[Mark McM]

bump

i have never tried cross country skiing, but seeing all the cool carriage roads in minnewaska state park has me considering.

i think, if my local REI or someplace offers rental equipment, that would be the way to go to flesh out what i would want.

do you guys think that for someone who knows the basics of downhill skiing, lessons would be required, or just grab some equipment, watch some videos for basic technique and hit the trails?

Getting back to the OP's question: It depends a lot on what kind of skiing you plan to do - where you want to ski, and what you plan to get out of it. Do you want to go into the back country, or stay on well maintained trails? Do you want to get a an intense aerobic/anaearobic work out, or do you just want to stretch your legs in the outdoors? Will your skiing excursions be relatively short, or will you be doing long distances?

If you thought there was a lot of different kinds of cycling, there may be even more different kinds of skiing!