Kinda OT... Smith machine or other racks...

[Dekonick]

Looking for a smith machine or similar for my home gym. I know many here don't lift, but for those who do what do you like? I am thinking about the following:

http://www.beyondmoseying.com/bodycraft-jones-machine.html

Expensive, but you can do just about anything. Thoughts?

[davidlee]

Hey ... I LOVE Smith machines and do pretty much all my squatting, shoulder presses, chest , one legged squats on them..
That being said my Gym has one of these contraptions that u are asking of and it's terrible. It takes away all the goodness of the Smith.
Get a traditional Smith and you will never look back.
My 2 cents
david lee

[TMB]

I think the Smith is pretty much the devil's invention.

It forces your body into an unnatural movement through a single plane.

Much better off to use free weights and allow your body to move and the joints to do their thing.

[rugbysecondrow]

Bingo. So much of weight lifting is the joint strengthening and stabilization, both of which you detract from if you use a single plane machine like this.

You know me Mike, you can get some kettlebells and really work out like you need to and save all the heavy stuff for the gym. Also, you need to have a tall ceiling. It is not just the machine height, but the height of the large plates...for me, I could never use it properly indoors. As an example, it forces you to do shoulder presses seated which actually disengages the core and makes it too one dimensional.

Go native dawg, less equipment, better exercises.



I think the Smith is pretty much the devil's invention.

It forces your body into an unnatural movement through a single plane.

Much better off to use free weights and allow your body to move and the joints to do their thing.

[Louis]

Bayou has a few options: Bayou Fitness (http://www.bayoufitness.com/Smith-Machines.htm)

Keep in mind that the really inexpensive stuff is cheap for a reason.

[Dekonick]

The Jones machine lets you go forward, back, up and down. Their newest version even allows the bar to tip. I was looking for something that I can use at night when the gym was closed, while the kids are sleeping. I am considering just a basic cage as an option too. I want the safety component... the jones lets you lift alone safely.

KB's are an option too... but I don't know how to use 'em...

I HATE Jan and Feb at the gym... too many new year res folks... get over it and let me have my gym back! :crap: Then again, they pay the bills... :beer:

[rcnute]

I think the Smith is pretty much the devil's invention.

It forces your body into an unnatural movement through a single plane.

Much better off to use free weights and allow your body to move and the joints to do their thing.

Completely agree. Get a squat cage and bench.

[Ahneida Ride]

google IronMaster

[rice rocket]

The Jones just looks like a regular cable system with some provisions for squatting as an afterthought? With only 200 lbs though, that'll be useful for 6 months for squatting and then it'll become useless.

Find a 24 hour gym maybe? I finally found one in the area, $260 for the year. Well worth my money.

[William]

Completely agree. Get a squat cage and bench.

Add some chains to add to the stability work.




William

[Geeeewiz]

I lift in the winter only. That is a nice machine for sure. I bought a way less expensive (don't laugh) Body By Jake "Smith Machine" off a guy for $125 with 2 45lb plates. I had to get some more plates, but I can do squats and use it for upper body too. I have a bar for dead lifts. I do lunges with the 45 plates and do stairs with them too. I have less than $200.00 in it. Sometimes you can get creative. I would rather sink the money into bike stuff. Good luck.

[crownjewelwl]

Completely agree. Get a squat cage and bench.

squat cage and bench is the way to go. if you have the clearance, i'd opt for one with integrated pull-up bar. if not, you can always get a studbar that mounts on the ceiling.

[crownjewelwl]

Add some chains to add to the stability work.




William


what does one do with chains??

[rugbysecondrow]

what does one do with chains??

They help with peak power when doing squats, bench and other lifts. More weight when at near full extension, less when starting or finishing as the chains are on the floor.

[SEABREEZE]

I think the Smith is pretty much the devil's invention.

It forces your body into an unnatural movement through a single plane.

Much better off to use free weights and allow your body to move and the joints to do their thing.


Agree 1000%

Only time I will use a smith machine is when no one is around to spot me on some serious weight doing squats...

[VTCaraco]

Actually, I tried mixing power lifting with cycling (the cycling suffered) when I was in college so have a fair sense of the stuff. And I'm of the same mind as others on the Smith Machines restricting movement and cheaper ones being dreadful.

I was the strength and conditioning coordinator for a time (mid 90s) at a high school in VA. After conversations with the staff at VA Tech and UT, we ended up contacting Mike Adolphson at Reflex Fitness (http://www.reflexfitness.com/) to equip our gym. If I'm remembering correctly, Mike would do some of the welding for Hammer Fitness when they were stretched thin. I know we saw several gyms that were basically built by Mike and were quickly convinced that he was the way to go.
He was amazing to deal with ~ superior quality, fair pricing, and a great guy (we did ours on a grant that included academic tutoring and saw amazing results ~~ Mike was very accommodating in making things work for us).
Anyhow, when I moved and wanted some equipment for myself, I contacted Mike for the equipment for my house, too.

He knows his stuff. I'd say it would be worth a call to describe what you're looking for (safe way to do the exercises you have in mind) and see what he can do for you.

[toaster]

I think kettlebells are best investment in weight equipment.

Another best is a 7' Olympic bar and Olympic plates, a 300 lbs set is not too expensive.

A Smith machine is too limiting. Far better to get a power cage (or squat cage and bench) with a pull up bar.

Problem with power cage is you can't go overhead with weights and bar inside the cage when standing.

Another idea is just have Olympic barbell and plates and have two free standing racks for bar that allow you to lift from the "clean" position. This allows you to do front/back squats off the twin racks and to press from a clean position (chest level).

Many CrossFit gyms use these racks. A barbell lift in most cases should start from the floor. Squats and presses are the exception.

[yngpunk]

If you have the room, I'd second the recommendation for a power rack. Body Solid/Powerline make a good and affordable line of racks.

Available online from www.fitnessfactory.com which I believe is the online store for Body-Solid, although they don't specifically indicate that relationship. They also have retail outlets in the Chicagoland area.

Also carry kettle bells if you want to go that route.

[Dekonick]

I like the rack idea. I believe that the Jones machine is a rack, with a floating smith setup inside. The 'smith' part, olympic bar on a pipe with bearings, is unique in that it goes up and down, and front to back as well allowing essentially free movement. It is also a standard rack/cage. You can use the smith part, or just a bar. I like that I can lift alone, and it fits my exercise room - none of the hammer strength equipment does... a serious problem for most of what is available. Check out the video and tell me if you really think it is nuts...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWMhrXnlT0

[rice rocket]

The fact that he can squat while holding onto the bar w/ one hand tells me that this doesn't do much more than a regular Smith machine. You're still relying on the machine to stabilize 4 of the 6 degrees of freedom, and in the end, you're losing out.

[yngpunk]

My take is that what appeals to you about the Smith/Jones machine is that it would allow you to lift alone, but don't forget that a power cage is designed to allow you to lift alone safely. While it may not be as nice a Smith/Jones machine where we can essentially latch the weight mid-lift if you get into trouble, you can still "dump" the weight safely while using a power rack.

[Liberace]

Add some chains to add to the stability work.




William


Probably the best advice here.


FYI: Photo attached is the rack I've been using. I was going to sell it to get a smaller set up, but I can't find anything as versatile.

[fiamme red]

Smith machines lock people into weird and unnatural movement patterns and I'd recommend that you go with free weights instead.

[Dekonick]

I use free weights at the gym. I want to be able to lift at home... some of the time.

[11.4]

I'd absolutely second the use of a classic cage or a squat rack, if not just a bar rack. A squat rack most often has a fixed cross bar on the sides, around thigh height, so if you drop the bar it doesn't end up on top of you. A classic cage surrounds you a bit more (which I don't like as much) and always has adjustable cross bars on the side so you can set the height. Frankly, both systems complicate your ability to switch between different exercises that are relevant to a cyclist. All you want is to be able to load and grab your bar at just below shoulder height for squats and military presses, and do so at ground level so you can do dead lifts and power cleans. It helps to be able to do bench presses, but those can be done with a bench and a simple $140 pair of stands that are adjustable from close to the ground up to shoulder height.

Don't expect the use of a cage or otherwise to protect you entirely. Your greatest risk in experienced lifting isn't dropping the bar on yourself. It's injuring yourself during the lift, most often actually during the return of the bar. The cage gives you a false sense of safety, just like a weight belt does. The good lifters stay away from them whenever possible.

The Smith machine and its variants are the worst of all options. As you increase in lifting, you are actually improving your core and all the subsidiary muscles in your legs, arms, wherever, more than you're building big glutes or quads. And this is not only to lift more, but so you don't overwhelm some of the lesser muscles or tendons and injure yourself. Rarely does a lifter doing lifts injure the principal muscles you're focusing on; instead, it's all the muscles that aren't up to stabilizing your lift that get hurt. And the Smith machine doesn't help with real-life strength needs as well. Frankly, more people get hurt on Smith machines than in lifting cages, because Smith machines and their variants fake you into doing bigger lifts that you simply couldn't do in a classic cage or a squat rack. And why do so when it doesn't make you a better free-weight lifter and doesn't do as much to improve performance in the sport you're actually trying to enhance?

I'd suggest you get a decent quality pair of stands and simply learn lifting correctly. The best way is to get Rippetoe's Starting Strength and the video that goes with it. Read the book and do EXACTLY as it says. It isn't just about how to do a dead lift. It's about combining five basic lifts that basically reinforce each other. If you one or two or three, you end up with basic weaknesses that will limit you in those. You need all five. That's crucial and the success of his point of view and the careful technique he insists on is amply proven in many cycling teams and with many international-level athletes. The basic precepts are: Do all five lifts. Do no more than 5-6 lifts per set. Perfect technique. Work at your limit so you're actually building strength. Cycling, however you think about it, is about strength -- more strength at the same cadence gives more speed. Doing DLs and squats doesn't help if you don't do power cleans to build speed in your lifts. Doing them without doing military presses doesn't improve your ability to stabilize your upper body (and by the way, the military press is the best single way to protect your collarbones in a fall, other than not reaching out to stop your fall).

On weights, absolutely get Olympic rather than sport bars and plates. The diameter is larger, but there are tons of equipment out there. Typically go on Craigslist and you'll find lots of iron and bars available out there locally for very low prices -- less than half a cent per pound for high quality iron (Ivanko or similar) and lower if you buy a reasonable amount. You can always repaint it too if you don't like the cosmetics. I recently took 600 lbs of Troy iron plates for a local club to a powdercoating shop and had it all sandblasted and powdercoated for $80. Better than any original paint would have been.

Two other things to consider. Bumper plates are more expensive but let you do cleans and such, which are critical to improving your cycling success. They aren't essential, but you can drop your plates and not worry about them or the floor. Also, get a few sheets of cheap D/D plywood sheathing plus one sheet of high quality MDF and screw the stuff all together with the MDF on top. Add a couple truck tire flaps where the plates normally sit, and you have a platform that makes your lifting safer, quieter, and doesn't damage the plates or any floor you're on. Once again, the theme is to lift unassisted by mechanical devices. Once you've done it a bit, you'll see why it's so good for you.