Seven Cycles

[mso]

Has anyone recently purchased a Seven? I had one back in 2002 and had a good buying experience and a nice bike, though a little stiff but a fun ride. Looking to buy a Ti Cyclocross frame and Seven for there straight gauge tubing comes in as the best value. Kish is also in there.

Just wondering why I haven't heard a lot of Seven for awhile. Any concerns?

Kish????

[avalonracing]

I wouldn't have any concerns about Seven. But I also wouldn't have any concerns about looking at a Serotta, or a Strong or an Erikson etc. Look around, you might find a better value yet.

[Jack Brunk]

Check out Form Cycles. EX Titus designers/fab guys who really know how to design and weld a frame. Good prices and good turn around time. If their cyclocross and road frames are as good as their mountain frames are, well you hit the lottery.

[jeo99]

Check out Form Cycles. EX Titus designers/fab guys who really know how to design and weld a frame. Good prices and good turn around time. If their cyclocross and road frames are as good as their mountain frames are, well you hit the lottery.

+1

:beer:

[happycampyer]

An avid 'cross racer I know (and one of the super-talented fitters at Signature) wanted a 'cross bike with a low q-factor, and got a Seven with BB30 and loves it. I'm sure that he would have bought a Serotta if they had a BB30 option...

[bobswire]

You asked about Seven so I don't know why anyone would suggest any other since Seven may have 1 or 2 equal competitors but none better.
I believe Spectrum/Kellogg will be using them to fabricate their Ti also now that Merlin is out.

[salem]

I have know a number of people at Seven since long before the company was formed. They are people for whom I'd vouch without hesitation.

Also, you mentioned your current bike being a bit stiff. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a common complaint with their bikes, but I wouldn't say this is a problem with the company, but rather what people spec for themselves. Seven allows you to pick the stiffness on a scale, and there is so much hype and marketing about how good stiff bikes are, people naturally pick a high number. This is probably compounded by the perception that Ti is flexy, so people probably pick an even higher number with this in mind.

A friend of mind had ordered one of their frames and done just that, specifying "10" (max) for stiffness. She received exactly what she orders and, in my opinion, the ride was horrible. In Seven's defense, she did say they double checked with her before building the frame to make sure she REALLY wanted it that stiff.

[Bruce K]

Just curious why you'd ask about Sevens on a Serotta forum?

I'm sure a few folks here own a Seven but it seems like an odd place to ask.

I believe Seven has their own on-line "neighborhood" as well as a very cool ride cafe/coffee shop in Lexington, MA.

BK

[mtb_frk]

Like I said in the other thread, I ordered a Mudhoney SLX this past spring. I worked with my LBS to come up with a initial fit on a fit bike. This was then sent to Seven which they tweaked a bit. I exchanged multiple emails with Neil at Seven in regards to the fit, ride and durability of the bike. I think the whole process took a couple months, seems like I did my initial fit sometime around the end of April and got the bike in the beginning of June. I guess the shop went back and forth with them a bit on the some of the numbers so it took a little bit longer. The bike turned out great, and I couldnt be happier with it. This was my second Seven. In 2008 I tried to get a custom MTB from a company that is no longer with us which turned out to be a really bad experience, but not as bad as some you hear about. After about 4 months of nothing happening, and given no time frame of when they could complete it I decided to cancel the order. Seven really came through and got my bike designed, and built in just a bit over a week. I was looking at a full suspension bike at the time but that was when they were canceling the Duo which they offered to build even though they werent officially making them anymore. In the end I decided to go with the IMX 29er. The bike rides great and getting the custom fit really made a huge difference. I have never been comfortable on stock sizes, and the strange geometry that we came up with really works for me.

Mudhoney, ignore the negative rise stem that was a mistake by the LBS when they built it.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=75523

IMX 29er
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=56800

[avalonracing]

You asked about Seven so I don't know why anyone would suggest any other since Seven may have 1 or 2 equal competitors but none better.

Only 1 or 2? You just insulted 3 to 50+.

[bobswire]

Only 1 or 2? You just insulted 3 to 50+.


Not when you are talking about Ti. Besides I never mentioned the 1 or 2 so if any of the 3 to 50 you feel I insulted then they must know they didn't deserve to be in the top 3. ;)

[Jeff N.]

Seven Cycles is a class act all the way.

[WickedWheels]

In my experience selling them, Seven has the best titanium fabrication that I've ever seen (including Serotta... sorry guys), but sometimes have a hard time with handling and geometry. In all fairness, this could be due to people not translating their desires into Seven's build sheet well, but I've known some people that did not love the way their bikes handled.

But again... their craftsmanship is second to none. Amazing welds and handling of titanium.

I feel like Serotta focuses more on tubing manipulation whereas Seven has a focus on keeping the tubes as pristine as possible. They both try to give the rider a customized ride, but Serotta does it by varying the tapering/swagging of each tube Seven tries to pick the tube of "proper" dimensions. It feels like Seven focuses on every component of the frame as opposed to Serotta which focuses on the frame as a whole.

There are other companies, like Moots or IF, which have similar craftsmanship, but less focus on customization.

In addition, I feel like Seven is a little more corporate in their structure and business dealings, whereas Serotta is a little more "home-made-apple-pie mom-and-pop" kind of a company. I can't comment on what is better.

You can agree or disagree, but this is based on repeated visits to both manufacturers and numerous years of selling both products.

[Mattbotak]

I'll take 2 servings of apple pie please :)

[Blue Jays]

One could select a titanium frame designed by the legendary Tom Kellogg of Spectrum Cycles and subsequently manufactured in the Seven facility.

[WickedWheels]

Personally, I would take one of those over the Tennessee-made ones in a heart beat (especially in light of their recent forum activity). These frames are going to be pretty sweet! I think that would be THE ti bike to get.

I'm currently on a Massachusetts-made Kellogg-designed Merlin and am loving every ride. It's a bike I had once and took for granted, so I made it a point to get another one recently. I can't think of another bike I've ridden that I enjoyed more.


One could select a titanium frame designed by the legendary Tom Kellogg of Spectrum Cycles and subsequently manufactured in the Seven facility.

[eric007]

In no particular order:

1). What forks are Seven using these days? I believe Serotta does their own, but I think Seven was using Reynolds or someone else's.
2). Any comment on how the quality and customer service of Seven has held up, now that they have become a fairly large company?

Like a lot of things, I suspect a lot would depend on whether you have a LBS which is good at service and competent at fitting and working through the proccess. Fortunately, I live in a town with a very good Serotta and a very good Seven dealer, and I suspect an excellent bike would be had from either.

(When I win the lottery, I'm getting a Serotta Legend with ti stays and a Seven Odonata, or whatever they have renamed it these days).

[WickedWheels]

1.) Last I heard it was Haynes (along with IF and many others), but that was a long time ago.


In no particular order:

1). What forks are Seven using these days? I believe Serotta does their own, but I think Seven was using Reynolds or someone else's.
2). Any comment on how the quality and customer service of Seven has held up, now that they have become a fairly large company?

Like a lot of things, I suspect a lot would depend on whether you have a LBS which is good at service and competent at fitting and working through the proccess. Fortunately, I live in a town with a very good Serotta and a very good Seven dealer, and I suspect an excellent bike would be had from either.

(When I win the lottery, I'm getting a Serotta Legend with ti stays and a Seven Odonata, or whatever they have renamed it these days).

[rugbysecondrow]

Were posts deleted from this thread? Why? Seems like an odd place/thread to censor or manipulate posts?

[Smiley]

I would throw my 2 cents behind Kelly Bedford when it comes to a Ti cross frame, Kelly has (5) 29's built now and we just got an order during his last visit to DC from a satisfied Tig Bedford Steel owner for a Ti cross/lite tourer set up. Its in the build now.

[soulspinner]

Is KB doing ti road frames?

[Mikej]

1.) Last I heard it was Haynes (along with IF and many others), but that was a long time ago.
Haynes makes ti tubing, not forks. I heard Seven is using Reynolds old tooling, for forks, but had them updated.

[xjoex]

I have a seven mudhoney ti, its a great riding bike. I would not hesitate to buy from them again.

-Joe

[Smiley]

Is KB doing ti road frames?
YES

[merlincustom1]

[QUOTE=Bruce K]Just curious why you'd ask about Sevens on a Serotta forum?

By that logic, should we not discuss Kellogg Ti, or for that matter any of the others mentioned in this thread, in a General Discussion forum? I think the OP just wanted to pick the brains of some folks with knowledge.

[benb]

What is up with this "cafe" that Seven supposedly runs in Lexington, MA?

I've never heard of this (I live right nearby) and would go check it out in a minute but there is no mention of it on the Seven webpage.

They seem to be top notch bikes. It's fairly odd but one of the reasons I got a Serotta was because everyone seems to have a Seven in the Boston area. I wanted to be a bit different and I went to school in the Capital District pretty close to Serotta. I haven't exactly heard complaints. I had an ex-teammate who was a Mechanical Engineer who worked there for a while as well. He moved on from bikes but he never had anything bad to say about Seven either. (And he was riding one last time I saw him.)

[WickedWheels]

You're right. Sorry. Mis-read the question. I thought he wanted a source for the tubing.

Haynes makes ti tubing, not forks. I heard Seven is using Reynolds old tooling, for forks, but had them updated.

[old fat man]

it might be worth waiting a bit for your ti cx bike. the former staff of IF are opening their own brand called Firefly. It'll be Boston based and I'm sure they'll work with ti.

[BillG]

What is up with this "cafe" that Seven supposedly runs in Lexington, MA?

I've never heard of this (I live right nearby) and would go check it out in a minute but there is no mention of it on the Seven webpage.


It has its own webpage. As you can see they also sell Cervelos.

http://ridestudiocafe.com/

[Dan Le foot]

[QUOTE=Bruce K]Just curious why you'd ask about Sevens on a Serotta forum?

By that logic, should we not discuss Kellogg Ti, or for that matter any of the others mentioned in this thread, in a General Discussion forum? I think the OP just wanted to pick the brains of some folks with knowledge.
+1
And why would competitors Like Mr. Kirk and others be contributors?
The knowledge base in this forum is huge. I hardly ever make a commitment on new equipment or try working on a component or system without checking in first. I'm mechanically challenged. :crap:
Dan

[akelman]

it might be worth waiting a bit for your ti cx bike. the former staff of IF are opening their own brand called Firefly. It'll be Boston based and I'm sure they'll work with ti.

Is there more information available about this somewhere?

[yngpunk]

Saw the link across the hall:

http://fireflybicycles.com/101

[jlwdm]

... the former staff of IF are opening their own brand called Firefly. ...

How about "some former staff of IF" - since IF is not gone.

Jeff

[Ti Designs]

I owned a Seven Odonata for a couple of years. As it was a design copy of another custom bike, it rode the way I wanted it to and was stiff enough for my tastes. Having sold Sevens for a number of years I've seen the results of customers insisting on their frames being as stiff as possible. As much as I like a solid bottom bracket, I didn't circle 10 on their stiffness scale. Anyway, that frame was damaged in a crash (my fault), one of the carbon seat stays were damaged. At that point I should have just bought a new frame. I need not go into detail, but customer service fell short of expectations. So I now ride a Serotta...

OK, to be fair, if everybody tried to ride their bikes as long as I do, Seven and Serotta would both go out of business. So when something fails on a frame of mine their reactions is one of "time for a new frame", and my reaction is "the prices have gone way up, I have to make this thing last!". While Seven couldn't fix my frame, when my Serotta broke at the attachment point of the seat stay, they weren't jumping at the idea of replacing the seat stays either. They had made a change in the dropouts and the new seat stays were different, I guessed they didn't want to chase problems down the line.

Yes, Seven did open a cafe in Lexington, and I have joked about it more than once. I'll never understand their business model, they are across the street from Starbucks and Peet's and they keep bank hours instead of coffee shop hours. They have bikes on the floor, but I can't see anyone going to a cafe for an expensive bike, and I'm guessing their mechanical staff has more experience pouring coffee than turning wrenches. But they do one thing better than many shops and just about any other builder, they keep in touch with the cycling community. They run rides form the Ride Studio Cafe, often lead by a member of this forum. Their customers will stop in, in part 'cause they want a coffee, in part 'cause they take pride in their own Seven. It's not unusual to find Rob Vandermark behind the counter. I wish I could go to a bar where the bartender is the CEO of Honda, so we could talk about their cars, and I could let him know what I would really like to see. That never happens, 'cept with Seven. I for one wish that Serotta would bring back the Serotta open house weekend with group rides with Ben and Steve and the gang...

[DHallerman]

I'm currently on a Massachusetts-made Kellogg-designed Merlin and am loving every ride. It's a bike I had once and took for granted, so I made it a point to get another one recently. I can't think of another bike I've ridden that I enjoyed more.

Wow!

I'm currently building up a Massachusetts-made Kellogg-designed Merlin, and your comment makes me excited about riding it once it's done (and once the ice is off the roads here).

Just curious: What fork do you have on your Merlin?

I'm putting a Wound Up fork on mine. I have Wound Ups on several bikes, love the way they ride, and I'm among the minority who like the way they look, too.

Dave, who also likes how the carbon steerer on a 1-1/8 inch Wound Up has an alloy core for extra strength

[WickedWheels]

I have an Easton EC90 on it. I would stay away from Wound Up for this bike. I think it would be a little harsh. My Easton isn't bad... a hair flexy, but in a nice way. I would take a look at Reynolds. There aren't a lot of 1" forks out there so try to find some NOS.


Wow!

I'm currently building up a Massachusetts-made Kellogg-designed Merlin, and your comment makes me excited about riding it once it's done (and once the ice is off the roads here).

Just curious: What fork do you have on your Merlin?

I'm putting a Wound Up fork on mine. I have Wound Ups on several bikes, love the way they ride, and I'm among the minority who like the way they look, too.

Dave, who also likes how the carbon steerer on a 1-1/8 inch Wound Up has an alloy core for extra strength

[jlwdm]

...I for one wish that Serotta would bring back the Serotta open house weekend with group rides with Ben and Steve and the gang...

???? There was an open house and a ride last year in May.

Jeff

[old fat man]

How about "some former staff of IF" - since IF is not gone.

Jeff

i've asked gary who is moving to NH and he has not answered. everyone i know that worked at IF when it left somerville has quit or been let go. so, while the IF name may continue, i have yet to see any names of those builders and designers who made the move.

btw, funny to see ti designs story about his odonata. ti, sorry you were not happy with the outcome from jenn and me.

[DHallerman]

I have an Easton EC90 on it. I would stay away from Wound Up for this bike. I think it would be a little harsh. My Easton isn't bad... a hair flexy, but in a nice way. I would take a look at Reynolds. There aren't a lot of 1" forks out there so try to find some NOS.

Interesting.

Have you used a Wound Up fork? I have one on my ti Ibis, and find it very smooth not harsh.

But perhaps the Merlin -- an Extralight model -- is a substantially stiffer frame than the Ibis.

And yes -- 1-inch forks are hard to find. Readily on the market are the Ritchey Comp and the Winwood fork. Reynolds ain't available, at least by my checking.

What about a Time fork? I do have an older one, new, also with a steel steerer like the Wound Up.

Dave, who prefers steel steerers on 1-inch carbon forks to steerers of aluminum or carbon