Cycling and Living in Princeton NJ [Archive]

jblande

02-13-2011, 08:47 AM

So I have been offered a position at Princeton, and the thought of moving from a cycling paradise (Basel, Switzerland) to New Jersey has me rather scared. To be honest, having a professional future in academia for my wife and me is more important than living in a particular place. But that has to do with the difficulties of the academic job market.

So my question for you forumites is what am I getting myself into? I realize the winters are cold, there are no alps, and the roads are inferior to Swiss roads. But is there good road cycling? Will I still have a life on the mountain bike at all? Will I have to drive everywhere to then get on the bike?

I would appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions.

JBL

AngryScientist

02-13-2011, 08:53 AM

i work in princeton myself. live in north Jersey very close to NYC.

depending on where you're situated exactly, there is some decent riding to be had, out to the delaware river and the Pa border, its not world class cycling by any means, it's NOT swiss riding, period.

Princeton itself is not too bad of a location though for other endeavors. quick train ride to NYC (greatest city in the world IMO), and the downtown area is pretty nice. it's going to be a real change from Basel though! i've always wanted to attend the Baselworld conference, i'm a swiss watch fanatic!!

feel free to shoot me a PM if you wind up in the area, i'll be happy to show you some local rides.

echelon_john

02-13-2011, 09:30 AM

jbrainin

02-13-2011, 12:18 PM

There's lots of very good cycling to be done if one lives in the Princeton area. While NJ lacks any large mountains, it has plenty of beautiful, hilly areas. There's lots of road riding to be done. And there's good mountain biking to be had, too. Most importantly, you can ride your bike straight from your front door. Of course, if you decide to drive someplace to ride, there's a lot of excellent routes to be ridden.

drewski

02-13-2011, 01:08 PM

Ken Robb

02-13-2011, 01:50 PM

I've had a couple of Swiss and German pals who were happy to trade the many benefits of living in European cities for the ability to own a relatively spacious home with a garage and a private yard. There are advantages both ways.

Rueda Tropical

02-13-2011, 02:44 PM

I lived in central Jersey for a few years about 20 min north of Princeton in Pottersville and there are plenty of rural areas especially as you get close to the Delaware River that divides PA and NJ from Lambertsville/New Hope north up to Riegalsville that are very pleasant for cycling of all kinds. No mountains, but some areas have rolling hills.

Princeton itself is a very nice town and Amtrak to NYC is a short trip. Philadelphia is a very short drive away.

jbrainin

02-13-2011, 03:05 PM

My dad lives in Pottersville.

mpetry

02-13-2011, 03:35 PM

it is a nice problem to have atmo. You should be able to ask for a site visit, right? If so come over for a week and have a look around. Rent a bike and see for yourself.

I think you'd find things are cheaper than switzerland, but maybe not so polite and well modulated if you know what I mean.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

roydyates

02-13-2011, 04:06 PM

... there are plenty of rural areas especially as you get close to the Delaware River that divides PA and NJ from Lambertsville/New Hope north up to Riegalsville that are very pleasant for cycling of all kinds. No mountains, but some areas have rolling hills.

Princeton itself is a very nice town and Amtrak to NYC is a short trip. Philadelphia is a very short drive away.
Rueda Tropical pretty much nails it. The Princeton area is not world class cycling because it lacks large mountains and beautiful long-distance vistas. However, there are lots of charming rural roads. In particular, as you go North from Frenchtown, there are quite a few short (700-1000 vertical feet) but ridiculously steep (20+ percent grades) climbs.

Your life could be a lot worse. You might be considering a move to, say, the fine universities in Urbana-Champaign IL or College Station TX.

flydhest

02-13-2011, 05:39 PM

I did my PhD at P'ton and raced on their bicycling team. There is good riding to be had by East Coast standards. I live in Washington, DC now and P'ton is a bit better. If you get to choose where you live, living in town or on campus is fine, but you have to ride through a bit to get to riding. The more west you can live, the better. I would advise completely against living to the east of P'ton if cycling ease is important. We would do lots of riding west and north of P'ton. Getting to the Delaware River is not too hard and there is lots of good riding thereabouts and on the other side in Pennsylvania. New Hope and Lambertsville are essentially one little town separated by a river and a state border. Riding through there has terrain, scenery, etc.

--edit--I should put on the disclaimer that it has been 14 years since I lived there, so things likely have changed some. Likely, for the worse if you leave east of town and likely more time/hassle getting out of time to good riding.

csm

02-13-2011, 05:55 PM

my brother-in-law and family live in Princeton. Very neat town and doesn't seem at all like the rest of NJ! some decent riding around but beware of deer.

Blue Jays

02-13-2011, 06:26 PM

A very cool cycling club that sponsors the Richard Sachs Cyclocross team (they are called "The Fatmen" and they ain't fat...) are from Central New Jersey.
Richard Sachs could likely put you in touch with them.

They ride from The Bike Stand (www.TheBikeStand.com) in Scotch Plains and even pedal into neighboring Pennsylvania.
A couple of their guys are seriously strong. Look into them and see if they have any ideas.

MadeinGermany

02-13-2011, 07:03 PM

Check out the Princeton Freewheelers web site. There is plenty of good riding in NJ and the Princeton area.

http://www.princetonfreewheelers.com/index.htm

texbike

02-13-2011, 07:22 PM

R
Your life could be a lot worse. You might be considering a move to, say, the fine universities in Urbana-Champaign IL or College Station TX.

What? Banging on good ole' Texas A&M and College Station??? Actually there is fantastic (not Swiss quality though) riding around College Station. The Brazos Valley area of Texas is very nice (Great rolling hills and empty roads). Add a VERY affordable cost of living for the area and a college that brings in many cultural amenities (not just talking the Dixie Chicken) and it's a place that makes a lot of sense.

Now back to the original programming....

To the OP, man DON'T DO IT!!! Stay in Switzerland. Jersey has its strong points but wow....how could you consider that move?

Texbike

roydyates

02-13-2011, 07:35 PM

What? Banging on good ole' Texas A&M and College Station??? Actually there is fantastic (not Swiss quality though) riding around College Station. The Brazos Valley area of Texas is very nice (Great rolling hills and empty roads). Add a VERY affordable cost of living for the area and a college that brings in many cultural amenities (not just talking the Dixie Chicken) and it's a place that makes a lot of sense.

Now back to the original programming....

To the OP, man DON'T DO IT!!! Stay in Switzerland. Jersey has its strong points but wow....how could you consider that move?

Texbike
I was trying to think of places that I thought were flat and dull for cycling but with good schools. I've never actually been to College Stn but I've worked with a lot of people who either taught there or did a PhD there. Nobody I know wants to move back. I think my friends said the climate is like your armpit On the other hand, nobody here is defending Urbana? I've been there many times and the cycling looks very dull.

As for the OP, if he and his spouse are hard core academics, then the professional appointment comes first. If you're REALLY serious about your academic career, then you don't have time to make cycling your serious hobby.

Polyglot

02-13-2011, 07:45 PM

I realize the winters are cold, there are no alps, and the roads are inferior to Swiss roads. But is there good road cycling? Will I still have a life on the mountain bike at all? Will I have to drive everywhere to then get on the bike?

I would appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions.

JBL

Reading these words, I would tend to say stay where you are. I have lived in 7 different countries, including three that confine with Switzerland and now live in Southern New Jersey about half an hour away from Princeton. To make a smooth transition, you must not look at the negatives, but rather the positives. If you are already making lists of negatives before you are even in a new location, you are assured of having a bad experience. Especially when many of your notions are totally wrong. The average temperature in Princeton is not significantly different from that of Basel. In fact Princeton is actually warmer than Basel on average over the whole year. Likewise the roads are not bad at all in central or Southern NJ. They may be terrible in North Jersey, but within riding range of Princeton, you will find plenty of great roads. Plus, when I ride, when I select "good" roads, I also consider the amount of space that is available for me, the potential escape routes that are available as well as the number of cars that pass me. In this, Swiss roads are absolute crap (I have cycled through 20 cantons in Switzerland!). I can also trace an interesting ride from my house which can avoid roundabouts and traffic lights, something that is out of the question in Switzerland. I have made certain rides on roads with paved shoulders where I did not even encounter an average of one car per mile. You will also be able to live a private life which is precluded in Switzerland. You can also ride your bike to the beach during the summer, yet another impossibility in Switzerland.

In my view, for every 100 positives you can find in Basel Switzerland, you will be able to find at least 100+ positives in Princeton.

Rueda Tropical

02-13-2011, 08:04 PM

If you need climbs here is a list in NJ:

http://www.roberts-1.com/b/u/nj/hills/index.htm#calculations_for_the_hills

Hu is Hunterdon county. Within riding distance of Princeton and a popular cycling area.

MAP of hillier NJ areas:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&ll=40.901058,-74.520264&spn=1.021379,1.864929&z=9&om=1&msid=104855209764401583780.00043698190931271ada7

jamesau

02-13-2011, 08:33 PM

I'm northwest of Princeton in Hunterdon county; Hunterdon is surprisingly rural (lower population density than Mercer), an easy commute to Princeton, and has great roads for cycling. Check out njbikemap.com for very useful cycling oriented maps of the area. One could almost ride year-round (though not this year); my fair-weather riding season is typically from March to December. Best of luck.

fiamme red

02-13-2011, 09:39 PM

Yes, there's good cycling in the Princeton vicinity, but this should be a minor consideration in your decision whether or not to accept the position.

Fixed

02-13-2011, 09:42 PM

congratulations on the new job .
i am sure you will find the students world class there ,
and a route you will like on your bike
cheers

texbike

02-13-2011, 10:10 PM

I was trying to think of places that I thought were flat and dull for cycling but with good schools. I've never actually been to College Stn but I've worked with a lot of people who either taught there or did a PhD there. Nobody I know wants to move back. I think my friends said the climate is like your armpit On the other hand, nobody here is defending Urbana? I've been there many times and the cycling looks very dull.

No worries. I was just messing with you. However, the arm pit comment is probably more applicable to a major metropolitan area about an hour Southeast of there... :)

Texbike

jblande

02-14-2011, 05:10 AM

thank you for the helpful replies. this is extremely eye-opening, and in fact leaves me rather optimistic about cycling in the princeton area.

to be honest, i do not suffer from such great illusions of cycling grandeur that i would consider making the cycling routes a greater priority than the professional opportunities that this job will make available for my wife and me.

i did my phd at the university of chicago (so the us is not new to me at all), and that was the most horrendous cycling i could ever imagine. i am just hopeful that princeton is better than chicago. and it sounds like it is.

i will have a 'house-hunting visit' in april, at which time i should have a better vision of what spring riding is like there.

once i have better geographic orientation, i will probably return to this thread with a question or two.

jh_on_the_cape

02-14-2011, 05:49 AM

My wife and I are in academia. Solving the 'two body problem' is always difficult.

Something to consider while visiting is the lifestyle of departmental colleagues and how this will relate to free time for cycling and other endeavors. I did my PhD at MIT and people there just worked all the time. Not for me.

It varies by department at each institution. Ask people what they do on the weekend or after 5 pm. If they say 'work', they might get bitter if you are out cycling and that could affect tenure and promotion. But if they are doing sports, music, arts or have little kids then they appreciate a well-rounded person.

We spend part of the year in Italy working. People work less here and value lifestyle (and are less productive). Where we are in the USA, people take vacation and then go to work so they do not have to bill hours to their research project, then get busted by an auditor. Not everybody, though, and people value productivity above all else.

Doesn't matter how good or bad the cycling is if you don't have time to ride!

A colleague moved to Princeton and she complains about high property taxes. Something to look into if you will buy a house.

Finally, I would never move from Basel to Princeton. But that's me. Work is only one part of my life.

Good luck! It's great having options. Makes you reflect on the positive and negative in your life.

rwsaunders

02-14-2011, 07:13 AM

Great town proper and a world class instituion to say the least. It's a bit of an oasis in NJ with easy access to all that NYC offers. Housing can be costly if you're looking to own a home or condo, but there are other towns in close proximity that are somewhat affordable in comparison. NJ is certainly not Switzerland but it's not all about the bike, right?

xjoex

02-14-2011, 07:51 AM

I too am in academia. And I moved from a beautiful place to... a less beautiful spot. I used to live in Boulder, CO and took a position at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh, PA.

The only suggestion I have is, rent for your first few months to see if you want to stay.

-Joe

christian

02-14-2011, 03:23 PM

Live west of town, if cycling is important.

And don't worry, it's miles better than the UofC. I'm a Chicago alum myself, but you'd have to search far and wide to find a worse place for cycling than Chicago. I've tried, and not succeeded.

54ny77

02-14-2011, 03:31 PM

I agree with what this guy said.

Oh and by the way New Jersey is great...when viewed from the other side of the Hudson, while at a bar patio, during a summer sunset. :banana:

As for the OP, if he and his spouse are hard core academics, then the professional appointment comes first. If you're REALLY serious about your academic career, then you don't have time to make cycling your serious hobby.

csm

02-14-2011, 08:29 PM

I agree with what this guy said.

Oh and by the way New Jersey is great...when viewed from the other side of the Hudson, while at a bar patio, during a summer sunset. :banana:
the sun sets in the west... so if you were on the other side of the Hudson.... wouldn't it be more of a sunrise?

Blue Jays

02-14-2011, 08:38 PM

"...the sun sets in the west... so if you were on the other side of the Hudson.... wouldn't it be more of a sunrise?..."No.

54ny77

02-14-2011, 09:03 PM

nossir.

sun rises over the east river (queens/brooklyn). i've seen waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many of them from working late nights.

the sun slowly sets over staten island and then into/over joisey.

check out a map of manhattan, position yourself as though standing right in the middle, and you'll see what i mean in terms of direction. east is towards atlantic ocean. west is towards california.

:beer:

the sun sets in the west... so if you were on the other side of the Hudson.... wouldn't it be more of a sunrise?

Louis

02-14-2011, 09:23 PM

east is towards atlantic ocean. west is towards california.

yah learn something new every day around here ;)

54ny77

02-14-2011, 10:01 PM

i lurned that's in skool.

yah learn something new every day around here ;)

shiftyfixedgear

02-15-2011, 12:17 AM

djg

02-15-2011, 07:14 AM

Are you American or Swiss? (or other?) If you've never lived in the U.S. I think you'd have a major adjustment in terms of quality of life, cleanliness, traffic, food...everything that you'd be dealing with on a day-to-day basis.

Princeton is a beautiful town and the University is top notch, but my impression (having spent a lot of time in Europe, including doing economic development for the Alsace region of France) is that matching your current quality of life most anywhere in the U.S. outside of NY, SF or another large, cosmopolitan city will be difficult. And even then your access to the outdoors and anything approaching your current riding opportunities will be limited.

Not trying to naysay, and obviously I don't know anything about your professional situation or priorities, but it would have to be a truly world-class, long-term opportunity for me to consider that move.

Maybe if you tell us a little more about your background in terms of where you've lived folks could tailor advice a little more?

All the best,
John

Just to play devil's advocate . . . I find this entirely strange. Living in the US is different. The OP very likely knows that. Not all differences will be welcome, but some will, with the mix and intensity of ups and downs depending very much on the individuals. Princeton is a very nice area with relatively easy access to a couple of large cities in the Eastern corridor. As for standard of living -- geeze, they'll have ready access to NY on weekends, if they want that, but they won't have NY (or SF) cost of living, which can be a significant issue for academics. Teaching at a major research institution in the US has many advantages. If they're young academics, they'll be working a lot. And the academic resources at their disposal will be key.

I'd swap the long-term/short-term priorities. If it's a good academic opportunity that's short-term, then it's a career stepping stone and the living conditions fade more into the background. It's the long-term opportunity that requires more serious thought: whereas moving away from one's home, family, and culture for 2 years may be an adventure or diversion; moving away for 10 or 20 is a big deal.

Hank Scorpio

02-15-2011, 07:24 AM

I am part of the Fatmen cycling club and you are welcome to join us for our rides but it is a bit of a hike from Princeton, about 40 minutes. We have weekend rides and midweek evening rides. My friend used to live in Skillman and he was a member of Century Road club based out of Pete's Cycle and Fitness on route 31 in Flemington.

djg

02-15-2011, 07:28 AM

i did my phd at the university of chicago (so the us is not new to me at all), and that was the most horrendous cycling i could ever imagine. i am just hopeful that princeton is better than chicago. and it sounds like it is.

Dude, me too. 1982-88. Now it's easy. I love Chicago. I think it's one of the great cities of the world. I love the U of C. I'm always glad to go back for a visit. And there really is a cycling community there and ways to ride and train, but let's face it: it's sort of a miracle. The winter is long and harsh. The terrain is flat. And it's a big city -- huge population, spread out over an extremely large area, with major traffic. Maybe it's changed over the years, but roads on the South Side were not great and decent routes were few. Basically, you can ride down into Indiana or you ride the bike path along the river. For riding, I'd take central Jersey any day. You'll have a milder winter and easier access to some rural areas. I've only visited NJ, never lived there (not since the age of 4, anyway), but I'm pretty confident that you'll find it easier to ride if you have the time.

But, as you know, and others have noticed, it's really all about the academic opportunity.

jblande

02-15-2011, 07:41 AM

truthfully, not accepting the job because of cycling would be utterly foolish. i am not so worried about maintaining a connection to europe, given that my wife is from vienna and i will still spend a few weeks a year at the university in basel. in truth, the european lifestyle appeals to me more. the problem is that there are almost no opportunities for my wife and me, if we would *both* like to stay in academia. one of the wonderful things about the us academic system is that there is such a thing as a spousal hire. in europe, the situation is the exact opposite.

i will be in touch Hank. 40 minutes, at least on the weekend, is probably manageable, if the riding is worth it. and from the look of things it will be.

i would just like to keep on cycling. when i think about chicago, i think i would have ultimately given up the bike, if i had remained there. it is just too dangerous and monotonous. i am glad to know that there is nice countryside in the princeton area. cycling should not be about constantly fearing for one's life.

this discussion has encouraged me on many fronts.

thanks again

Blue Jays

02-15-2011, 07:45 AM

"...I am part of the Fatmen cycling club and you are welcome to join us for our rides but it is a bit of a hike from Princeton, about 40 minutes..."Do you guys still have the Friday night social at The Bike Stand in Scotch Plains these days?
Still have that awesome red, black, and white kit with the silhouette? Great stuff!

Hank Scorpio

02-15-2011, 07:53 AM

We still have our Official red, black and white kits courtesy of this designer and member http://www.neustudio.com/

We still have our "meetings" Friday nights at The Bike Stand. Come by if you like after 5 pm.

goonster

02-15-2011, 08:29 AM

my wife is from vienna
As am I. Grew up in Meidling.

I'll say this about the cycling in New Jersey: it's a heck of a lot better than you might think if you have never ridden there. In fact, it was riding brevets in NJ that busted all of my glow-in-the-dark-refinery-swamp-wasteland stereotypes about the state. And Princeton is a decent gateway to the best roads in the northwest corner of the state.

In Princeton you have the element of infrastructure I miss most as a European living in the non-urban U.S., namely the ability to take a train to a) a major city b) an airport

rdparadise

02-15-2011, 04:01 PM

Princeton is a wonderful little college town with a rather upscale chic. Restaurants are great, nice feel to the area, etc. Buying a house or even townshouse there will probably set you back at least 1/2 a million usually more.

Hunterdon County is great for riding as one other poster mentioned. Very rural, not too much traffic and pretty decent terrain. Hills is you want them or not.

As far as living goes, I would jump over to bucks county PA. It's about a 30 minute commute to Princeton. More rural and more like suburbia then college town, however, from a financial standpoint is more economical living. Lower income taxes and property taxes for sure, with many good school systems within commuting distance to Princeton.

Good luck whatever you decide. I live in the garden state and would move back to PA if things weren't so complicated. I loved PA and still miss it today.

Bob

roydyates

02-15-2011, 10:53 PM

One important item to consider is that Princeton has much finer cuisine in Hoagie Haven than anything that Basel has to offer. Urp. And don't forget Harry's Luncheonette.

And in an actual serious note, Conte's makes a fantastic pizza.
I don't miss that much from the "Golden Ghetto", but Conte's pizza - now that was fantastic.
How does Hoagie Haven stay in business? They charge at least $2 less for a hoagie than other other hoagie/sub shop in Central Jersey. This has puzzled me for years.

tsarpepe

04-23-2011, 08:45 AM

Did you do your house-shopping already? If so, how did you like Princeton?

uber

04-23-2011, 05:44 PM

I lived in Bucks county for several years, not too far from Princeton. There is a toe path that runs parallel to the Delaware River that runs from Easton to Bristol and is part of a state park. 60 miles of flat off road bike riding, and there is a similar path on the NJ side that parallels the Delaware River as well.

jblande

04-24-2011, 03:23 AM

Did you do your house-shopping already? If so, how did you like Princeton?

wow, thanks for coming back to this thread. my wife and i were in princeton the week before last for our pre-move visit. the town itself is very charming, with small boutiques, actually functioning crosswalks, good food, colonial homes, and attractive landscaping. one certainly pays a certain price to live in the immediate princeton vicinity. on the other hand, the university offers an enormous array of cultural, intellectual and even athletic opportunities. having done my undergraduate degree at two other elite american universities, princeton takes the cake. really unbelievable in so many respects.

for the next year, my wife and i have decided to rent an apartment as faculty residents of one of the colleges. it is located on alexander st., backing up onto the springdale golf club.

i have a few questions now that i have visited. from the look of things, it should not be too difficult to head west and into penn where there will be less traffic.

-are there good websites that provide routes?

-how much dirt road riding should i expect to do in this area?

-how poor are the roads? i know that princeton itself is essentially an island, so i am curious what to expect elsewhere.

due to the extremely tight schedule during our stay, i did not have the opportunity to scope out anything beyond princeton itself. both my wife and i feel at ease with the move, after having made the visit. it is a wonderful institution in a rather charming town. and so long as the weather is nice, it appears there will be routes to be had. perhaps not the 6500 feet of climbing i got in yesterday over 100 miles in the black forest. but that does not significantly diminish our excitement.

roydyates

04-24-2011, 05:54 AM

i have a few questions now that i have visited. from the look of things, it should not be too difficult to head west and into penn where there will be less traffic.

-are there good websites that provide routes?

-how much dirt road riding should i expect to do in this area?

-how poor are the roads? i know that princeton itself is essentially an island, so i am curious what to expect elsewhere.

due to the extremely tight schedule during our stay, i did not have the opportunity to scope out anything beyond princeton itself. both my wife and i feel at ease with the move, after having made the visit. it is a wonderful institution in a rather charming town. and so long as the weather is nice, it appears there will be routes to be had. perhaps not the 6500 feet of climbing i got in yesterday over 100 miles in the black forest. but that does not significantly diminish our excitement.
You would have to work to get 6500 vertical in 100 miles riding from your front door at Forbes college. I did a brevet yesterday that started in Princeton that was ~8000 feet in 200km and that was intended to be hilly. Going West from Princeton, 3000 ft in 100km is pretty common unless you work to avoid the hills. On the other hand, if you started your a ride 45 min north, say near round valley reservoir, 10000 feet in 100 miles is quite doable.
Or if you leave home and go east or south, you can do as little as 1000 feet in 100 miles. In places where the cycling is nice, I'd estimate about 90% of what appears to be roads in google maps are paved. There is a way to usually tell: paved roads are in google streetview, unpaved are not.

For finding routes, the Princeton Freewheelers have a pretty good variety of rides each week. princetoncycling.com also has descriptions for a pretty good set of traditional rides.

Gotta run ... or I'll miss my Sunday ride.

JLP

04-24-2011, 10:48 PM

Most importantly, get thee to Hoagie Haven.

Did Einstein ride a bike?

There has been active cycling going on in Princeton since six day ruled Madison Square Garden.

The university team lists tons of common rides from town. Pennsylvania and New Jersey have active brevet series for those interested in randonneuring.

Kopp's Cycle is the oldest bike shop in the US.

Don't even get me started on how badly I miss Conte's.

itsflantastic

04-24-2011, 10:54 PM

I used to be on the Rutgers Cycling team and we rode around the Princeton area quite a lot. Canal road is nice, and those rides out toward PA are great. SEe if you can hook up with the Highland Park Hermes for the their weekend rides to get to know the roads.

Again... it won't be anything compared to Switzerland but there is some incredible riding on the East Coast of the US.

For example - Acadia National park has a great loop right on the ocean that is one of the most beautiful rides I can think of. Connecticut has a lot of great rides as well. Good luck at Princeton. It's a wonderful university!

fiamme red

04-26-2011, 09:13 PM

In places where the cycling is nice, I'd estimate about 90% of what appears to be roads in google maps are paved. There is a way to usually tell: paved roads are in google streetview, unpaved are not.That's not a reliable method of telling whether a road is paved. There are many roads that aren't in Streetview that are paved, some in Streetview that are dirt.

There's the D & R dirt canal towpath that runs from Trenton to New Brunswick, and a feeder towpath that runs north along the Delaware from Trenton to Frenchtown or so.

There are very few dirt roads in that part of NJ.

JunkYardBike

04-26-2011, 09:58 PM

My favorite resource for planning routes is the New Jersey Bike Map: http://www.njbikemap.com/

I primarily ride Warren/Sussex/Hunterdon/Morris counties and have found it both helpful and reliable.

It's coded to indicate traffic volume and road surface. Doesn't show potholes, though. We had a tough winter and municipal budgets are depleted, so I expect rougher roads in the coming years. Doesn't bother me; slows down traffic and justifies my 650b rig. I'd say roads in Hunterdon are in the best condition of the counties I mentioned above.

tsarpepe

04-27-2011, 12:24 AM

I would characterize the roads around Princeton as very good. Of course, the more you get into the countryside, they get smaller and rougher, but this is the case everywhere. Unfortunately, Canal Rd, which is the most scenic ride in the immediate vicinity, is quite rough in patches due to underground waters (since it goes right next to the river).

mjb266

04-27-2011, 02:44 AM

Growing up in Doylestown, PA we would constantly ride over to NJ for the fantastic road riding above the Delaware river. Actually, both sides of the river offer fantastic roads with climbs approaching those in teh european classics. Drive down to Washington Crossing or Stockton and check out the following as you go north on either side of the river.

Uhlerstown Hill Rd 20% incline
Greenhill Rd
Armitage Rd
Paxson Hill Rd
Federal Twist Rd
Fleecydale Rd
Stompf Tavern Rd
Ferry Rd
Cafferty Rd
Tumble Falls Rd
Warsaw Rd
Dark Hollow Rd
Upper Tinnicum Church

Just get on Google maps and scan the roads going north. They are beautiful, desolate, and have plenty of elevation. The only ones you need to avoid are Route 32 on the PA side and Route 29 on the NJ side during peak hours or on nice weekend days. The Bucks County Cycling Club runs a lot of rides out that way and will be able to help with rides as well.

jblande

04-27-2011, 04:36 AM

djg

04-27-2011, 07:33 AM

thank you all for your posts...i have found this very encouraging, and look forward to discovering new territory on the east coast. i think i was rather scathed after spending a couple years in chicago. you are all helping me to avoid the temptation to project my past experience onto this new geographical region. many thanks.

What are you talking about? From Hyde Park, the standard training loop takes you past the Museum of Science and Industry, the Stony Island White Castle, and Bo Diddley BBQ. And the extended loop goes through scenic Gary, Indiana. Scathed?

jblande

04-27-2011, 07:39 AM

sorry, but chicago is a city of cars, with horrible streets and at least an hour and a half to reasonably attractive scenery. yes, riding toward the city can occasionally strike one as beautiful, but on the whole it is a thoroughly impoverished version of cycling.

Tim Porter

04-27-2011, 07:57 AM

Joel, mjb266's post, above, lists all the roads I ride on. Our house is on Cafferty Road--incredible biking (though of course not the mountains). Agreed on Chicago biking after also going to school in Hyde Park--I kinda think djg was being a bit sarcastic. :) Tim

jblande

04-27-2011, 08:00 AM

It appears I am still so bitter, Tim, that I cannot recognize a facetious comment. I am looking forward to getting to know the area. I will be in touch!

Hank Scorpio

04-27-2011, 09:07 AM

Near the middle of a hot century last year we hit Buffalo Hollow Road to Observatory Road. That almost did me in.

roydyates

04-27-2011, 09:03 PM

That's not a reliable method of telling whether a road is paved. There are many roads that aren't in Streetview that are paved, some in Streetview that are dirt.

There's the D & R dirt canal towpath that runs from Trenton to New Brunswick, and a feeder towpath that runs north along the Delaware from Trenton to Frenchtown or so.

There are very few dirt roads in that part of NJ.

Indeed there are many paved roads not in streetview. I didn't say that all paved roads are in streetview. My claim was that dirt roads are not in streetview. At least I don't know of any dirt roads in streetview. Can you give me a NJ example?

BTW For paved roads not in streetview, usually you can use streetview to look down the road from the cross street and if it looks paved, it probably is ok. (Of course, I know exceptions that start paved and switch to dirt perhaps a hundred yards down from the corner.)

BTW I'm very familiar with the canal as I ride along canal road once twice per week. The towpath is, of course, dirt, but the towpath is not in streetview. I'm not sure why you mentioned it??

Central Jersey doesn't have tons of dirt roads, but it does have its share. For example, quite a few roads in the Sourlands/Lambertville area are dirt. I could easily make a list of a half dozen. The Hell of Hunterdon ride used most of them.

I will say, the rule that "dirt roads are not in streetview" seems to work perfectly down in the Pine Barrens. Down there, almost all of the minor (non county hwy roads) are dirt and are omitted from streetview.

roydyates

04-27-2011, 09:12 PM

Near the middle of a hot century last year we hit Buffalo Hollow Road to Observatory Road. That almost did me in.
Make sure to sign up for Hillier than Thou this year. Last year, it included both of those and then continued on to Herman Thau ...

fiamme red

04-27-2011, 09:17 PM

Indeed there are many paved roads not in streetview. I didn't say that all paved roads are in streetview. My claim was that dirt roads are not in streetview. At least I don't know of any dirt roads in streetview. Can you give me a NJ example?Off the top of my head, here's one, Long Lane and Larger Cross Rd in Far Hills:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=long+lane,+Far+Hills,+NJ+07931&aq=&sll=40.692084,-74.705103&sspn=0.022127,0.055661&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Long+Ln,+Far+Hills,+Somerset,+New+Jersey+079 31&ll=40.689425,-74.691067&spn=0.022258,0.055661&z=15

BTW For paved roads not in streetview, usually you can use streetview to look down the road from the cross street and if it looks paved, it probably is ok. (Of course, I know exceptions that start paved and switch to dirt perhaps a hundred yards down from the corner.)There are quite a few exceptions to that rule, as I've found. Many dirt roads are paved at intersections with paved roads, not elsewhere.

BTW I'm very familiar with the canal as I ride along canal road once twice per week. The towpath is, of course, dirt, but the towpath is not in streetview. I'm not sure why you mentioned it??Because if you want to ride a road bike on dirt in the immediate vicinity of Princeton, it's the only choice. There's some single-track in Mercer County Park and in Sourland Mountain Preserve, but it isn't rideable on a road bike.

I will say, the rule that "dirt roads are not in streetview" seems to work perfectly down in the Pine Barrens. Down there, almost all of the minor (non county hwy roads) are dirt and are omitted from streetview.Most of the dirt roads in the Pine Barrens aren't rideable (or driveable) at all. They're covered with deep sand. Streetview is limited to roads where Google vehicles with mounted cameras can go, which rules out the dirt roads in the Pine Barrens.

fiamme red

04-27-2011, 09:31 PM

Make sure to sign up for Hillier than Thou this year. Last year, it included both of those and then continued on to Herman Thau ..."Hillier Than Thau?"

roydyates

04-28-2011, 07:04 PM

Off the top of my head, here's one, Long Lane and Larger Cross Rd in Far Hills:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=long+lane,+Far+Hills,+NJ+07931&aq=&sll=40.692084,-74.705103&sspn=0.022127,0.055661&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Long+Ln,+Far+Hills,+Somerset,+New+Jersey+079 31&ll=40.689425,-74.691067&spn=0.022258,0.055661&z=15

You win!!! :) I don't think I've ever been on Long Lane. I do believe you have found one of the rare exceptions. It's funny but I've ridden Lamington and Black River Rd, Pottersville etc but never on Long Lane. I do a fair amount of exploratory riding around there, making up routes on google that seem like they ought to be nice. I suspect I have avoided Long Lane because it looks straight on the map. Twisty roads are usually more fun because they are usually hillier.

roydyates

04-28-2011, 07:14 PM

"Hillier Than Thau?"
I wonder if its possible to make up a route that's "Hillier than Thau"? The idea would be it would a series of connected roads with vertical feet per mile that is hillier than Herman Thau Road. I suppose you'd start by going up Fiddler's Elbow but then what? You could go down Lommasons and then up the ridge again? Maybe instead after Fiddlers, you go to Iron Bridge?

Ray

04-28-2011, 07:21 PM

Joel,

As others have told you in much more detail than I could, there's plenty of good riding on either side of the Delaware River. Not the Swiss Alps, but not bad at all. And, if the winters prove too harsh, at least you'll have an awesome set of rollers! :cool:

-Ray

fiamme red

04-28-2011, 09:02 PM

I wonder if its possible to make up a route that's "Hillier than Thau"? The idea would be it would a series of connected roads with vertical feet per mile that is hillier than Herman Thau Road. I suppose you'd start by going up Fiddler's Elbow but then what? You could go down Lommasons and then up the ridge again? Maybe instead after Fiddlers, you go to Iron Bridge?Not quite as hilly as that, but (at least according to his altimeter) around 10,650 vertical feet of climbing over 67 miles distance:

http://www.roberts-1.com/b/v/u/09b/index.htm#hth_sections_w_maps_cue_sheets_09jun

jblande

05-18-2011, 01:02 AM

I have another question for those of you familiar with the Princeton area.

Is there any decent mountain biking to be had in the area? I am trying to figure out what of my belongings I should bring from Basel and Konstanz, and I am quite unsure how much use I would be able to make of mountainbike.

Assuming there are something like hills and trails in the area, I imagine there is also some mtn biking to be had. But is it worthwhile? And would I need to drive?

Thank you NJ experts...

Liberace

05-18-2011, 07:19 AM