2 Floridian Bicyclists Killed

[SEABREEZE]

Folks please be careful out there...!!!

Two seperate incidents killed two Bicyclists this week...

1) A Boca Raton fireman was killed riding his bike on the road in Jupiter Fl.

2) A Bicyclist going over the Jensen Beach Fl Causeway was hit by a car.


:crap: :crap: :crap:

[Fixed]

fl. is a dangerous state to ride in
so sad a fireman a brave man
who saved lives
2 guys enjoying a beautiful
warm day gone

[leooooo]

Just came back from Orlando and was amazed at the bravery of cyclists down there.

No shoulders, cars routinely buzzing by at 60+mph, 18 wheelers blowing red lights, and the insane amount of distracted tourists (me included).

Even mentioned to my girlfriend that I thought us New Yorkers had it bad, but Orlando seems far worse.

Maybe there is a method to the chaos like NYC cycling, but until then, hope everyone stays safe down there and condolences to the cyclists' families.

[rePhil]

We had something like five people hit in the last few weeks in SW Florida. Three died. One incident was two teens skateboarding in a bike lane around 11 pm. One of them died.Driver left the scene, was caught the next day.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110125/ARTICLE/101251058

Another was a woman riding on the same stretch of road was hit in the middle of a Sunday afternoon. Verdict is still out whether she veered onto the path.http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110131/ARTICLE/110139987/0/APN?Title=Bicyclist-hit-killed-by-truck
The other three were schoolchildren riding bikes. Two in early morning darkness, on in the afternoon. One died.http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011110209912
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110203/ARTICLE/102031065/2288/?tc=obinsite

[patchdog]

On March 6, 2010 I was hit on a local road about 10 miles from my home and I woke up in the hospital with no memory of the accident. I live about 60 miles south of Orlando and the traffic is getting worse. I'm sure the traffic will only exasperate when the new LegoLand becomes fully operational. I had multiple injuries and I'm currently recovering. My best advice is to always wear a helmet with bright clothing and make sure you have plenty of motor vehicle insurance and a long term disability policy. The vehicle I was hit by was being driven by a habitual driving offender whose license had been suspended. This individual had been arrested a total of ten times within ten years. The local law enforcement seemed to be making the arrests but the County Court system kept turning him loose. The owner had minimal coverage on the vehicle and even with my insurance being twice that amount I should have had more. The owner who was lending her vehicle out to this individual was never even mentioned by name during the offender’s sentencing and the last that I heard she had left the state. Luckily I had medical and disability insurance and if not I would have been much worse off. Florida is a no fault law state and the local attorney's don't seem to have a lot of leeway. I had one attorney tell me that I should have had a million dollar policy. No offense to attorney's but I assume she would have been more than happy to take a third. I'm currently riding my stationary bike and look forward to riding again soon, but I'm unsure if I could ever ride the public roadways again. I always knew that I could be hit but I just never believed that I would. I do not write this to you to dissuade anyone, but just as a warning to be careful and be prepared. Last year a son of a former state of Florida Governor I'm afraid was hit and killed in the Tampa area. The driver who I believe was a nurse did stop and assist this gentleman but if my memory serves, I don’t think any charges were ever filed. The FMLA laws in Florida only require that a person’s job is held for twelve weeks and the job I held for twenty years is no longer available, at least not to me. Things can change in an instant with no warning and we have very little control over what happens to us. I have reached out to lawyers and specifically cycling lawyers but unsuccessfully. This is just a portion of my story, the rest of it I’m afraid to share, because even I find it to be quite unbelievable. There are many safety issues in the county where I live which I have tried to present to our local government which has only fell on deaf ears. So when you are visiting or riding in Florida please ride with discretion.

[Ralph]

For whatever the reason, we do seem to have a lot of cycling accidents in Florida. Perhaps year around riding....a lot of people on bikes all the time, distracted tourists unfamilar with roads, older drivers with poor eyesight, and other factors are part of it.

I live just N of Orlando, and have easy access to our fantistic trail system. About 150 miles completed of 200 miles planned. Trails 14' wide (a full road lane), some in areas where you have to share a lot with other slower users, some out thru the country where you can ride safely as fast as you wish. Get in 50 mile rides with no problems, or use the trails to get out in rural areas. Just wish all who have to use their bikes had a system like this to get you where you need to go safely. I only ride the roads on Sunday AM, when traffic is low out in the country. And never around commercial areas like Disney.

When you visit Florida next, bring your bike and use our trail system. It's real nice for those not familar to the area. This one is fairly close to Disney area and connects to other trails for another bunch of miles.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/gwt/guide/regions/eastcentral/trails/west_orange.htm

[BCS]

Just came back from Orlando and was amazed at the bravery of cyclists down there.

No shoulders, cars routinely buzzing by at 60+mph, 18 wheelers blowing red lights, and the insane amount of distracted tourists (me included).

Even mentioned to my girlfriend that I thought us New Yorkers had it bad, but Orlando seems far worse.

Maybe there is a method to the chaos like NYC cycling, but until then, hope everyone stays safe down there and condolences to the cyclists' families.
I live and ride a lot in Central Florida. Where exactly were you riding??

[leooooo]

I live and ride a lot in Central Florida. Where exactly were you riding??

Tourist alley, probably the Time Square of Orlando ;)

I-4, International Drive, all the roads that criss/cross it, and the road that leads to MCO (Sand Lake?).

[SEABREEZE]

For whatever the reason, we do seem to have a lot of cycling accidents in Florida. Perhaps year around riding....a lot of people on bikes all the time, distracted tourists unfamilar with roads, older drivers with poor eyesight, and other factors are part of it.

I live just N of Orlando, and have easy access to our fantistic trail system. About 150 miles completed of 200 miles planned. Trails 14' wide (a full road lane), some in areas where you have to share a lot with other slower users, some out thru the country where you can ride safely as fast as you wish. Get in 50 mile rides with no problems, or use the trails to get out in rural areas. Just wish all who have to use their bikes had a system like this to get you where you need to go safely. I only ride the roads on Sunday AM, when traffic is low out in the country. And never around commercial areas like Disney.

When you visit Florida next, bring your bike and use our trail system. It's real nice for those not familar to the area. This one is fairly close to Disney area and connects to other trails for another bunch of miles.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/gwt/guide/regions/eastcentral/trails/west_orange.htm

I concur with Ralph, the trails in the Orlando area quite nice.. There is also trails like that north of Tampa parraell with the susnshine parkway.

Also Ft Pierce to Okechobee parraell to SR 70 in St Lucie county.

[Fixed]

http://ride4theanimals.com/11.html
ride the Pinellas Trail and it is
for animals
cheers

[phlash23]

http://ride4theanimals.com/11.html
ride the Pinellas Trail and it is
for animals
cheers
Thats my neck of the woods. Where you at Fixed?

[Fixed]

Thats my neck of the woods. Where you at Fixed?
tampa come join us
cheers

[ericspin]

Thats my neck of the woods. Where you at Fixed?

Phlash, you're part of the 66mafia aren't you. Seems I recognize the name from some FL Fixed posts and some 66 shenanigans.

[Rueda Tropical]

“Florida had 119 bicyclists killed in 2007—the most in the country, according to recent data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). Second was California with 109 bicyclist fatalities in 2007, even though California has twice the population of Florida.
The total number of bicyclists killed in the country was 698 in 2007. Florida had 28 percent of all the bicyclist fatalities in the U.S. in ’07.”

I suspect that the stats are not much different now.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . ."Miles From Nowhere" about a couple riding around the world in the late 70's. In it they have a whole chapter devoted to their nightmare of riding through Florida.

The woman author said riding through the state was one of the worst experiences of their whole trip around the entire planet. It included rude, unforgiving drivers screaming at them, people deliberately running them into the sandy shoulders, suspicious, unfriendly residents (especially rural), and even an RV driver who stopped, waited for them, then attacked the husband because they hadn't gotten out of his way fast enough.

It did not paint an attractive picture of the state for cyclists--and that was in about 1978.

BBD

[Fixed]

in the movie easy rider they got it in fl.
cheers

[Joel]

It's a real mixed bag living here in Orlando for riding. For the first year or so I was like "what have I done?" As the roads that I was on were terrible and it seemed that I'd be the next statistic.

It took a while to find a series of roads that are bicycle friendly. They are out there but they are precious few. We're lucky in that we live in a part of town where there is only traffic for about 2 miles and then it's open roads all the way out for miles and miles. Once on those roads it is one of the best year round cycling places I've lived.

The contrast - and frustration - is that as much as I'd love to commute to my job - I'm too frightened. Our company has moved into a lovely new building that has parking, showers, lockers, towel service at the gym and every other possible service that would make for commuting heaven.

However the ride to get to the office is just too dicey. I've done it on weekends when there was "no traffic" and it wasn't pretty. Throw darkness, traffic and tourists into the mix and it's a no-go. A couple of guys here (who are also very experienced riders) have tried it and given up.

Orlando specifically, and Florida in general is one of those places where "be careful out there" has real meaning.

[SEABREEZE]

http://ride4theanimals.com/11.html
ride the Pinellas Trail and it is
for animals
cheers

Love to, but I wont be able to, thanks for asking Fixed

[J.Greene]

I'm on the east side of Orlando and I think the roads are great. Within a few minutes I can be out in the cow pastures and oranage groves. Is it getting more congested, yes. I suspect any place worth living is too.

If I were to choose any part of the state to ride in it would be Gainesville. Rolling hills, good roads, low traffic etc...So much of Florida has great riding, I don't get the sentiment that this state is bad for cycling.

[Fixed]

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/cycling-fatalities-highest-in-florida-25385
we may love fl but it is not the best place for cyclist
cheers

[Ralph]

I'm on the east side of Orlando and I think the roads are great. Within a few minutes I can be out in the cow pastures and oranage groves. Is it getting more congested, yes. I suspect any place worth living is too.

If I were to choose any part of the state to ride in it would be Gainesville. Rolling hills, good roads, low traffic etc...So much of Florida has great riding, I don't get the sentiment that this state is bad for cycling.

I agree. I have been all over the country with my bike, and have yet to find better places to ride than we have in Florida. Add in year around riding weather, and many parts of Florida are a cycling paradise (most of the year).

You can't argue with statistics, and we probably do have some of worst areas also. But I don't think it's accurate to include the whole state in those comments. We're a big state with a diverse population and vast differences in population density in different parts of state. The next time any of you want to visit Central Florida, bring your bike, and I'll help you find safe riding.

[BumbleBeeDave]

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/cycling-fatalities-highest-in-florida-25385
we may love fl but it is not the best place for cyclist
cheers

. . . particularly this part:

Clemente and Kathryn Moore, executive director of SFBC, play an integral role in shaping cycling education and awareness programs in South Florida. Based on a three-year crash study at the Palm Beach Metropolitan Planning and Organization (MPO), Clemente found that cyclists who are most frequently victimized include minority populations, populations with low auto ownership and low income populations.

This sounds like my own community. Invariably when I see somebody riding erratically, down the wrong side of the street, or otherwise totaly disobeying traffic laws in such a way as to make me say to myself "That guy is gonna get himself KILLED!" it's usually some guy in street clothers--often yes, a minority--and dressed in such a way as to make me think he is probably low income.

So in that respect Florida may not be that much different than most of the nation.

But another aspect that is not mentioned here is proportion of senior citizen drivers on the roads. Despite Florida's reputaton as retirement heaven, I wonder how it really compares to other states in this regard?

Another aspect is infrastructure. I remember from the "nowhere" book that the woman told of how it seemed none of the rural roads in Florida had any shoulders--all the edges features a drop of several inches into sandy soil so that if you swered even a iny bit you dropped off, your front wheel went into the sand, and you went over the bars. Couls this play a part, too? Cyclists get hit because they are reluctant to dive into the shoulder sand pit? I'm asking current Floridians because I haven't been there for almost 20 years.

BBD

[Elefantino]

In NE Florida, it's pickup trucks that seem to be the problem. They aim at you. I believe after many years of study that it has to do with uncontrollable homophobia, because the sight of butts in spandex provokes an angry reaction. I wish I were kidding.

That said, you need to come to Florida more often. The zebra kit would drive folks insane.

[ericspin]

Some thoughts. Along the lines of BBD's post, there are LOT'S of people riding bikes in FL that become statistics that are reported as _cyclists_. Refer back to some very old conversations started by our old pal Swoop about cyclists vs. bike riders. Lots of these folks that end up as fatalities in FL are mostly something less than bike riders. Don't mean that in a demeaning way....just the facts. These are Walmart bikes piloted by homeless folks. Yeah, sure there are some cyclists in full kit that are statistics also but the percentage is way smaller. Factor in also that we ride 12 months a year. Then factor in all the folks that are driving on our roads that are in FL for the first time. I just don't think the stats are really indicative of the situation. I regularly ride with my bros in areas where we go pretty much unmolested. I have had incidents but not many. As for the drop off at the edge of the road issue. This sounds like a generalization to me. I ride here regularly and I am not aware of that being an issue.

Dave, interested in what you classify as a minority in your area compared to where I live in FL. Us old white guys ARE the minority here.

I'm with Ralph. Bring your bike and I will take you on some beautiful routes close to my home. Just don't bitch about it being ___________FLAT.

[LouDeeter]

We have lots of cyclists and we ride year round, so more opportunities for accidents. I live in SW Orlando and have seen more accidents on trails and residential areas than on the regular roads. And, the accidents I've witnessed did not involves cars. But, from a risk standpoint, cars are more problematic, so I avoid congested roads and regular roads during rush hour.

[Fixed]

the best part of fl is we can ride all year is it as good as san diego no but few places are
if you choose your route you may be safe but bro when leave home on a bike or car there is are no guarantees you will be coming back..
best bet drive to a trail unload the bike and ride one the beautiful trails
that are set aside for cyclist and runners
cheers

[Carlos G]

That is terrible, I have been hit twice but was very lucky that it was just a grazing. Both times it was a distracted driver and once the woman got out of her car and began yelling at me while I was on the road bleeding! My helmet saved me.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . who honk at you a split nanosecond before they pass you--far too late for you to have enough reaction time to actually get out of their way. :mad: :crap:

BBD

[drewski]

. . . who honk at you a split nanosecond before they pass you--far too late for you to have enough reaction time to actually get out of their way. :mad: :crap:

BBD

I think driving gives people false reason to be bellicose.
I was car pooling this morning at around 7:30 am. Bright sunny morning
clear a little chilly.

A power line was down and the traffic and our area was rerouted from a
a 4 lane super street to a 2 line subdivision.
I needed to cut through a couple of lanes of very slow < 15 mph stop and start traffic to make a left. Someone male, conservative hair cut, Ford Explorer who looked like a fellow co-worker at the Bank I work with was going in opposite direcdtion and gave him some subtle body lang. (pointing to the left + using turn signal) where I asked him if I could cut make a left in front him to get the subdivison I need go get to to pick up 2 more kids.



I don't know why this person did this but he gave me single finger salute.
Maybe he recognized me from my rides around the city.



:fight:
My 12 year old was in my front seat, so I kept my composure.
I am normally a pretty low-key keep things cool kind of person.

If you were that person this morning, I love you. Mean it.

[patchdog]

There are areas that appear safer than others, back roads do have less traffic and therefore you are less likely to be involved in an accident. I was the victim of a hit and run at approximately 11:00 am on a clear day, on a rural road, and in between an orange grove and a cow pasture. When I found out where I was hit I could not believe it. I had been riding that road for the past couple of years since it had finally been paved. According to law enforcement reports I was riding in the right lane on the far edge of the roadway. The person who hit me actually drove off the roadway quite a distance before impact. Anything can happen to anyone and at anytime regardless of your class, education, or social status. I was very fortunate and I'm thankful to God to still be here with the ability to type out this post for all to read. I just thank God that He is no respecter of persons. I'm very sorry for all who have been injured or who have lost their lives, family, and loved ones while out just enjoying a ride. There’s plenty of apathy out there and not just in regards to cyclists, which I think is at the heart of the problem. I just wonder how many bicycle accidents go unreported. I had a nurse inform me in the hospital that her brother n law was hit on the same day that I was hit. She also informed me that our last names were the same. I just could not find a report of his accident in the newspapers, but I believe she said he also went to the hospital and the last that I heard he was already back on his bike. I guess you can't keep a good cyclist down. After I was hit a couple stopped and assisted me, they called 911 and got me the help that I needed. While they were waiting a nurse on her way home who had just finished her shift stopped to assist, she then took over until EMS arrived. The good nurse never left her name but I was able months later to contact the couple and thank them. There are still some very good people out there. I have often wondered if the nurse who approached me in the hospital was the nurse who stopped and helped me that day. Approximately three weeks after my accident the same couple assisted another person who drove through an R/R crossing and was hit by a train and was thrown from her vehicle. The good couple called 911 and stayed with the lady until EMS arrived; the couple was certified in first aid and CPR. The lady survived the collision with the train and I hope she is doing fine. God is great, good, and wonderful and I just want to give Him all of the thanks. Hope all of your rides are safe and without incident, be well.

[Fixed]

masterfully written bro



cheers

[phlash23]

Phlash, you're part of the 66mafia aren't you. Seems I recognize the name from some FL Fixed posts and some 66 shenanigans.

Proudly. The Best beer drinking cat 4/5 team around! (http://www.66fixedgear.com) And I'm a mod over at http://www.flfixed.com as well.

[SEABREEZE]

A few have mentioned riding on the road in same direction as cars and off to right as far as possible, in essence doing things properly, and either becoming a statistic or nearly becoming a statistic.

With that said, I am throwing out there your thoughts of riding on the side of on comming traffic, this way you can see if something is about to happen, and perhaps enough time to react, to prevent you from becoming a statistic..

[Ralph]

A few have mentioned riding on the road in same direction as cars and off to right as far as possible, in essence doing things properly, and either becoming a statistic or nearly becoming a statistic.

With that said, I am throwing out there your thoughts of riding on the side of on comming traffic, this way you can see if something is about to happen, and perhaps enough time to react, to prevent you from becoming a statistic..

Not legal....and way too dangerous. Hit head on impact speed would be your speed plus oncoming vehicle speed. Hit from behind....Impact speed of oncoming vehicle minus your speed.

[firerescuefin]

Went to school at UF....enjoyed riding in Gainvesville, but the "Deliverance" element certainly existed when you got outside of town. I was run off the road twice, and the drivers were not antagonized by me. but that is not unique to Florida.

Lived in St. Pete and raced quite a bit in and around Tampa/St Pete...and rode with the St Pete club when I could. Everything is relative, but Colorado riding is 'feels' much safer than Florida...in or out of traffic. Floridians don't really seem to buy into "share the road"...and although not perfect, drivers here typically give you a wide berth.

[1happygirl]

A few have mentioned riding on the road in same direction as cars and off to right as far as possible, in essence doing things properly, and either becoming a statistic or nearly becoming a statistic.

With that said, I am throwing out there your thoughts of riding on the side of on comming traffic, this way you can see if something is about to happen, and perhaps enough time to react, to prevent you from becoming a statistic..

So sorry to all the families of the injured. Makes me scared to ride on the road.

REgarding side of traffic. In my state:

Old school : riding with traffic
New (and legal) : ride against the traffic. This is how they are teaching people. The rational dealing with cars seeing you in certain turns, I think. It still makes me uncomfortable to ride this way.

[Ralph]

I can see that there may be places where riding against traffic makes sense. A few places.

[firerescuefin]

So sorry to all the families of the injured. Makes me scared to ride on the road.

REgarding side of traffic. In my state:

Old school : riding with traffic
New (and legal) : ride against the traffic. This is how they are teaching people. The rational dealing with cars seeing you in certain turns, I think. It still makes me uncomfortable to ride this way.


Huh?...I would imagine one is legal, not both...what happens when old school meets new school.

[Rueda Tropical]

Huh?...I would imagine one is legal, not both...what happens when old school meets new school.

Exactly. It's like having English and American driving rules both legal simultaneously. Cyclist to cyclist collisions are no fun either neither is having to swerve into traffic to avoid cyclists coming the other way.

[1happygirl]

Hahaha. Old skool meets new skool. Funny.

The only, legal way they are teaching is AGAINST traffic. This is the law.

I grew up riding with traffic so, this new way is scary to me.

PS I'm lookin' it up. Some time ago after years of being taught by my dad to ride WITH it was changed which I thought strange.
Then again, it may have changed again.

[Don]

1HappyGirl,

What state do you reside in and can you supply the statue that instructs cyclists to ride opposing traffic? Is there any printed material relating to this? I've been involved with bicycle advocacy for nearly twenty years and am always interested in major changes.

Thanks,

Don

[Fixed]

when i was a messenger i used to ride down one way streets the wrong way
no one ever said anything to me not even the police
the only time was when a cyclist i used to race with saw me he didn't recognize me in my messenger role yelled " hey man you are going the wrong way " i didn't say anything
i don't do stuff like that now but when i rode everyday for work i would bail out on the sidewalk if i felt i was in emanate peril
on my fixed mt bike it was almost as fast as being on the street
it probably saved my life a few times
cheers

[1happygirl]

Sorry. I must be more tired than I thought.


Running, I'm sorry. I must have gotten confused about when I was running and cycling. I know bike club members and I looked it up back in the day.

Must get caffeine. Must get caffeine.

[dookie]

had inlaws in the west palm beach area until recently. rode there a few times. beach road was fine...nice even, south to boca. saw some mapei guys there a time or two.

went inland once. 'nice horse country', they said. black diesel f250 pulls along side, passenger rolls the window down and says 'must suck to not be able to afford a car', then breaks a beer bottle on the shoulder directly in front of me.

inlaws left. i'll never ride in south FL again, thanks.

[Fixed]

had inlaws in the west palm beach area until recently. rode there a few times. beach road was fine...nice even, south to boca. saw some mapei guys there a time or two.

went inland once. 'nice horse country', they said. black diesel f250 pulls along side, passenger rolls the window down and says 'must suck to not be able to afford a car', then breaks a beer bottle on the shoulder directly in front of me.

inlaws left. i'll never ride in south FL again, thanks.
but the fishing is great
cheers

[LouDeeter]

Yes, fishing is great. Taken last month on a lake just north of Orlando. That's me on the right, holding the big one!

[SEABREEZE]

Yes, fishing is great. Taken last month on a lake just north of Orlando. That's me on the right, holding the big one!



That wouldn't be Lake Jessop

[LouDeeter]

Lake Monroe, on the St John's River. Fishing with plastic worms in 2 feet of water.

[drewski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEMFj-frViY&feature=youtu.be



I believe he filmed this in and around Austin, Tx.

[ericspin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEMFj-frViY&feature=youtu.be



I believe he filmed this in and around Austin, Tx.

Holy crap, I thought I might shoot myself while listening to this _enthusiastic_ vid.

[phlash23]

Even the police in Orlando get no respect (http://vimeo.com/8876115)
Worth your click (I can't seem to imbed the video).

[phlash23]

and not to be the conduit of more bad Florida news but:

via tampabay.com: Bicyclist hit and killed near USF (Tampa, Fla.) (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/bicyclist-hit-and-killed-near-usf-riverfront-park/1151447)

[Fixed]

always carry i.d. at least your family will know .
in the old days that was the route all cyclist took to train in north tampa
lots of bros have fallen on that and morris bridge road

[phlash23]

Unfortunately, it doesn't ever seem to stop around here:

This will really get all of you going:

via the St. Petersburg Times:
<a href="http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/bicyclist-hospitalized-after-collision-with-suv-in-st-petersburg/1151931">Bicyclist hospitalized after a collison with an SUV in St. Petersburg.</a>

Typical, unfortunatley. Now here are the infuriating facts:

Driver was intoxicated--blew a .241 (4x the legal limit!)
Driver was driving on a suspended license, his THIRD such charge

and now for the :crap: :crap: :crap: part, directly quoted from the story:

"He wasn't charged with hitting the bicycle.

Police said Hawkins, the bicyclist, pulled in front of the SUV and was responsible for the crash.

Police spokesman Mike Puetz said Hawkins could be cited, but it is up to the officer's discretion."

Discuss.

[Fixed]

ok you are drunk maybe you would have missed the bike if your reactions were normal
cheers