OT: Apple Laptop Question and Help

[rugbysecondrow]

I am looking into purchasing a new laptop as my current Dell is about to crap out after 6 years. I am looking at an Apple Macbook Pro and I have a few questions.

WARNING, I am not a tech/computer person so these might be dump questions.

1) Is all RAM equal? Is 4 GB or RAM on a PC going to be the equivilant of 4GB of ram on an Apple? I ask because I have heard that Apple has a more efficient platform and operating system than a PC and so I wonder if it would require less RAM? I heard the Windows 7 required lots of RAM.

2) If it says 4GB of RAM (2x 2gb) what does the 2 X 2gb mean? How is that different than 1 x 4gb?



Also, is there anything else I should be looking at? I use the computer for work some, but mainly photos, music, web and entertainment. No graphis programs and I am not a gamer.

I have looked into PCs again (not a Dell after a few bad experiences) but they seem so clunky and overburdoned with programs etc. Am I wrong?

I buy a computer as seldom as possible, so what I buy I want to last.

Any pitfalls to going Apple?
Thanks

[echelon_john]

depends on whether you think clinchers or tubulars are better! :crap:

There's no practical difference to 2x2GB ram vs 1x4GB as long as the chips themselves are the same speed, and are matched (which they would be if you bought pre-installed)

I would recommend 4GB of ram no matter how you slice it; it's a small investment (vs 2GB) and applications aren't getting any less memory-hungry.

In terms of best way to purchase an apple, I would recommend you look at the 'refurbished' section of apple.com. You can often save several hundred to a few hundred buying this way; I've done it may times now and never received a product that was distinguishable from brandy new.

Finally, spend the money on AppleCare. It's invaluable when you need it, and also makes buying Refurb a no brainer (same cost for applecare whether refurb or retail). Esp. as a new Apple user you may want access to tech support past the 30-day (or whatever it is) window, and if the thing ????s the bed in 2.5 years you'll still be covered for repair or replacement.

Some retailers also sell refurb and applecare; smalldog.com is one that comes to mind.

Good luck--welcome to the tribe! :beer:




Any pitfalls to going Apple?
Thanks

[gasman]

I just bought a Macbook pro 6 months ago. Get as much RAM as you can afford with a slightly slower processor as you (and I) don't need fast speed.
I don't know if you even have a choice how the RAM is configured and doubt it makes a difference. I love mine, solid and easy to use.

[sg8357]

I ask because I have heard that Apple has a more efficient platform and operating system than a PC and so I wonder if it would require less RAM? I heard the Windows 7 required lots of RAM.

2) If it says 4GB of RAM (2x 2gb) what does the 2 X 2gb mean? How is that different than 1 x 4gb?

The laptops have two memory slots, so 2x2gb means your maxed out.
1x4gb means you have 1 slot left for more ram.

Win7 is much less a hog than Vista.

Macbook Pro with the 13.3 screen uses a processor 1 generation back
due to space reasons, the larger screen machines use current processors.

There are no "economy" grade macs so you are going to pay more,
a Macbook Pro is equivalent in price to a business grade laptop,
HP Elitebook or Lenovo Thinkpad.

[aarondgirard]

First off, I've been a Mac user for about 8 years now, and I will never own another PC. The operating system alone is enough to keep me happy, let alone the rest of the upside of using a Mac.

As for the laptop you are looking at, I am currently using a MacBook Pro with 4gb RAM, and have not had any problems... Windows surely does take a substantial amount of RAM to run all of it's background stuff, making 4gb a necessity when running Windows, but you should be fine with 2gb on the MacBook if you are not doing anything super intense (i.e. gaming, photo/video editing, etc..)

2x2gb refers to the number of "sticks" of ram totaling up to the amount of RAM installed. 2x2gb doesn't run any differently than 1x4gb, and is generally less expensive. This (2x2gb) is what Apple installs in the MacBook if you order it with the extra RAM.

Overall, I think that Mac is much more user friendly, but does take some getting used to. If you can get into a store, they offer free data transfer from your PC to the new Mac, and inexpensive one on one sessions to teach you how to use anything you want...

Hopefully that is helpful,
Aaron

I guess I could have just typed "What everyone else said" :rolleyes:

[buck-50]

Pitfalls of going to apple are mostly that you are going to need to acquire all new software, fonts, etc.

Macs need RAM, just like any other computer. The more the merrier.

If you don't like poking around in yer OS, if you are the kind of person who just wants their computer to work and doesn't like searching online forums for advice on how to deal with issues, MAC is for you.

[fkelly]

4GB should be fine for any "normal" use of the computer whether it be APPLE or Windows. Even with high end use that's more than sufficient. Whether the Apple operating system or Windows is more efficient ... no sense starting a flame war. It really doesn't matter, if you look back in computer history they both have some of the same antecedents and heritages. Windows has more baggage to be sure but computers are so fast these days that it doesn't matter on a practical basis.

the 1x4 versus 2x2 refers to how much RAM is on a single memory stick. There are a limited number of memory "slots" in any computer ... usually 4. So, if you had a 1x4 and filled all 4 slots you could have a maximum of 16 gigs, whereas if you had 2x2 and filled all four you could have a maximum of 8 gigs. This used to matter a lot more when they could only get 256 megs (a quarter of a gig) on a single stick. Or sometimes even just 56 megs. you could easily top out your memory with memory sticks like that.

My windows 7 laptop does just fine with 4 gigs of memory and I do a fair amount of software development on it.

other considerations: if you have invested in your own learning on particular software packages, make sure that software is available on your target system and that it operates more or less the same there as it does on the one you are coming from. Bike related: if you use Polar or Garmin or anything like that make sure it will work on your target system. For instance both my Garmin and Polar devices plug into USB ports on my Windows computer. If I was going totally Apple, I'd want to confirm that they'd work there. (I'm not saying they don't -- I just don't know)

[benb]

Windows vs. Mac on RAM usage is complex. At some level the Mac is more efficient with respect to paging. (You will not see the hard drive spinning up when you have plenty of memory free for example) However when you do run out of memory, the Mac will go south just as fast as Windows. So you still want as much as you can afford.

The Mac also comes with a lot of memory hogging programs that you would probably have to buy separately on your PC. That is also an argument for getting lots of RAM.

Apple picks their processors with an eye on performance vs. battery life.. that is why you will see slightly older processors, but across the lineup they all have fantastic battery life. (Having more RAM will also increase your battery life in certain usage scenarios by the way) The PC manufacturers tend to give you all the options you need to produce a notebook PC that is not terribly portable. Apple wants to reduce the choice to make sure any configuration is still at home away from a power outlet.

If you are mechanically apt I'd order the Macbook pro with the minimum amount of memory possible and then order 8GB of ram and install it yourself. 8GB of high quality apple approved RAM is only about $100, it's quite a ripoff to let Apple Charge $400 extra for it. Swapping RAM is pretty easy stuff.

[Kirk007]

Love Macs. I think the 15 inch pro is a great machine - 17 inch is a bit big to lug around. 13 inch best value if you want small machine for travel and hook it up to a 17-21 monitor at home.

Mac processors are now Intel and you can partition the hard drive, install windows and run it as a PC for those programs that are not mac compatible and some bike training programs are or used to be. I did this in order to use Tacx computerized bike training program. I think this is the only downside to a Mac these days is that for some programs you either need to restart in Windows environment or install Parallels which runs a windows like environment without having to partition/restart.

[rice rocket]

I bought a 13" Macbook Pro a year ago, but I don't drink the Apple koolaid (I think Steve Jobs is a selfish asshole, and shouldn't be considered a luminary in the business...if you compare Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation's $54B donations to good charities to Job's almost ZERO, it's really hard to see why Apple-nuts view this man so highly. I never want to be thought of as one of the "tribe". /rant). Anyways, I bought it because they use the best LCD in the business (still is the case I think).

OS X seems to choke at memory management a little. I tend to have a lot of tabs open in my web browser (sometimes 15+), and at times, the system will grind to a halt. Pop open the Activity Monitor and sure enough, 0 free RAM and it's going to swap. I have 4GB, 8GB costs $80 nowadays so I should really upgrade.

After about a month, I started to spend most my time in OS X, and I dual boot into Windows when needed. Pretty easy to setup, and allows you a good deal of flexibility if you don't want to repurchase your software for OS X, or they simply don't make it for OS X (which if you do any engineering work, there is almost no software built for the Mac). I use Windows also for updating my phone and other small things like that.

Anyways, good combination of usability/flexibility and size. Certainly not the best value, but the LCD makes it worth it in my opinion.

[thwart]

IMHO, for most users 4 GB of RAM is enough. In a MacBook Pro it's very (very) easy to upgrade the memory and the hard drive yourself. If you can adjust your bike's RD, you can do these things.

So... don't pay out of the nose when you buy the machine for stuff you can do yourself much more cheaply. I like OWC for Mac after-market stuff... they also have videos of the upgrades which is nice.

You will want an SSD hard drive sometime soon (much faster), although right now I'd probably go with the standard HD and upgrade later.

I'm just lovin' my little 11" MacBook Air. Only 2 GB of RAM, but with the SSD HD it feels very fast. I have over 20 tabs open in Firefox right now, and a couple of other bigger applications running, and it's just as happy as a clam... :beer:

[Likes2ridefar]

IMHO, for most users 4 GB of RAM is enough. In a MacBook Pro it's very (very) easy to upgrade the memory and the hard drive yourself. If you can adjust your bike's RD, you can do these things.

So... don't pay out of the nose when you buy the machine for stuff you can do yourself much more cheaply. I like OWC for Mac after-market stuff... they also have videos of the upgrades which is nice.

You will want an SSD hard drive sometime soon (much faster), although right now I'd probably go with the standard HD and upgrade later.

I'm just lovin' my little 11" MacBook Air. Only 2 GB of RAM, but with the SSD HD it feels very fast. I have over 20 tabs open in Firefox right now, and a couple of other bigger applications running, and it's just as happy as a clam... :beer:

I just got a macbook air 11" with the same config as you last week and it's great. Super fast, seems equal to or even better than my imac which has twice the processor speed and double the ram.

to the OP, if you don't need a 15" screen consider the macbook air. it's a heck of a lot lighter and thinner, but has less connections, slightly less battery life, and a much smaller HDD.

[FlashUNC]

FWIW, I've owned 2 computers over the last 8 years: a 1st generation 12" Powerbook and a 13" MacBook Pro currently. The first computer literally traveled the world and took a beating, with only needing to geta new battery once in a blue moon, and the trackpad button got a little sticky towards the end.

I'm biased, but love the things.

In regards to your question as others have mentioned, the 2x2 configuation means both RAM slots are occupied. You still can upgrade the RAM at a later date, though you would have to buy a new memory stick that would at least off set the loss of the 2GB from the one you pulled from the machine. (Ie: If you buy a new 4GB RAM stick, you'd go to 6GB, rather than 8.)

Its a minor quibble.

My only real complaint is that over time, the new OS upgrades will begin to bog down your machine, but that generally does not happen at the same rate, in my experience, as a Windows upgrade will.

[ergott]

My work computer is a MacBook Pro that's almost a year old. It has 4 gigs of ram.

I use my computer with Logic for recording and have no problems with speed. I ran 9 simultaneous tracks and ran out of mics!

That said, I think you pay a major price premium for Macs. They are nice, but you get get the same speed from a Windows computer for almost half the price. Sometimes even less.

Browse Newegg and Amazon for a huge selection of laptops at any budget.

[fourflys]

as others have said, you can go round and round over PC vs. Mac...

my experience is this: I've had several PC's that for whatever reason ended being very expensive paperweights... my wife had always been a Mac person, so I figured I'd give them a try.. I'm not a tech guy for the most part either and I couldn't be happier with my Mac... it seemed like I was always having to do something to make the PC work better or numerous other things... with the Mac, it just works...

BTW- I've NEVER ran across a program I've needed that i couldn't get on the Mac... if you're using it for a specialty field them maybe, but most of us are fine with either platform software wise...

[Tim]

I've owned a mac book for about 3 years now- true, they do cost more- but the quality, long battery life, ease of use and reliability all make it well worth it- I owned several Dell computers in the past, but I'd never go back. It really is a better computer.

[Likes2ridefar]

My work computer is a MacBook Pro that's almost a year old. It has 4 gigs of ram.

I use my computer with Logic for recording and have no problems with speed. I ran 9 simultaneous tracks and ran out of mics!

That said, I think you pay a major price premium for Macs. They are nice, but you get get the same speed from a Windows computer for almost half the price. Sometimes even less.

Browse Newegg and Amazon for a huge selection of laptops at any budget.

before I bought my macbook air last week, I browsed all the windows and mac computers out there at newegg, amazon, etc, and I can't say I agree with your comment that windows computers are half the price. Yes, there are some for half the price but they are also seriously lacking. But that's for you to decide whether you need better battery life, lighter weight, etc.

My research came up with they are roughly equal in price if you spec them the same but factor in the, imo, better software as well as the design of the apple in most cases, and it seems like a better deal.

[deechee]

PCs seem bloated? Why? If you order a business line PC, most you can order with Windows and whatever version of Office you prefer and not get any trial software. Yeah, if you buy a cheap dell, you get a pos. Not that business line Dells are any better, I've had my work laptop motherboard and HD replaced within 2 years. Piece of junk.

My personal T series Thinkpad has zero problems at home. Comparing a 1500$ mac to a 1000$ Dell is not the same thing.

Btw, the naming convention Intel has used recently does not make it easy at all to compare processors. Macs are still using the 1st generation i3/5/7 chipsets, but the new "SandyBridge" processors are available for PCs now, and are the "latest and greatest". If you only buy a computer once every few years, it might be worth spending the $ to have the latest hardware. (But I'm a geek.) If I were in the market, I'd snatch the Samsung (http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/09/samsungs-ultrathin-9-series-laptop-coming-in-february/) when its available.

[rugbysecondrow]

Thanks all. I was looking at the refurbished section, quite a hidden gem. I am going to order the Pro off of there. Good RAM, harddrive size, long life battery...should be cool. It is a Valentines gift for my wife, so hopefully she likes it.

I did look at PCs from various sources and the Pro seemed like a fair deal. Also, there is an App store for MAC now, so that help sway me.

Thanks all!

Thanks all.

[572cv]

The Macbook Pro is durable and the OS is great. I've been on Macs for too many years to count. I am typing this on a 17" Macbook Pro.

I second the suggestion that you buy Apple Care. This is really a good insurance program, and pays for itself in a single incident.

Good RAM is good RAM. Apple's RAM is good but not cheap,last I looked. Crucial supplies quality RAM at good prices, so you might look there to save a few bucks.

[ergott]

Yes, there are some for half the price but they are also seriously lacking.

Can you please tell me how this computer is lacking?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834214048

[Likes2ridefar]

Can you please tell me how this computer is lacking?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834214048

yeah, and it was easier than I anticipated.

the battery life stinks at 2.16 hours. it weighs nearly 7lbs. the resolution is very low for a screen that size.

[ergott]

yeah, and it was easier than I anticipated.

the battery life stinks at 2.16 hours. it weighs nearly 7lbs. the resolution is very low for a screen that size.

Wow, 768. I didn't catch that. The others are smaller factors for me, but others may disagree.

:beer:

[ergott]

How about this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834157485

$400 cheaper isn't as much as I initially thought, but that's a pair of shifters;-)

[Likes2ridefar]

It's certainly more on par with the macbook pro 15" and trumps it in a few areas. Aesthetically, it's lacking, imo, which I must note for me is not a make or break, but if I do have a choice I'd pick the prettier one. And it's still over a pound heavier, thicker, and has about half the battery life.

[fourflys]

yeah, and it was easier than I anticipated.

the battery life stinks at 2.16 hours. it weighs nearly 7lbs. the resolution is very low for a screen that size.

AND, it's not a Mac.... :D

[ergott]

It's certainly more on par with the macbook pro 15" and trumps it in a few areas. Aesthetically, it's lacking, imo, which I must note for me is not a make or break, but if I do have a choice I'd pick the prettier one. And it's still over a pound heavier, thicker, and has about half the battery life.

Having used Macs for a couple of years now, my honest opinion is I am comfortable on both so neither is an advantage. The Macs are pretty. My gripe is the video adapter I need and the second one I needed for the Pro. Two different plugs, both Macs? Not cool at $30 a pop. I do like their power supply magnet connection.

My last real gripe with them is price. If it's only a couple hundred, I understand. If that creeps up to $400 plus, I have to seriously consider the advantages. At least it's not as outlandish as I previously thought.