how many of you are eating the BEEF?

[shinomaster]

Living here in the Northwest I'm a little suspect of the beef after the Mad Cow scare last month. I only try to buy "natural" meat which is abundent here. Am I just being paranoid. I know I'm more likely to be hit by a car than get mad cow, but that seems like a bad way to go!!
Don't get me started about factory farming and the big slaughter houses either! It may just make me go Vegan!

[oracle]

"i would sooner kill a man than a snake"

-ed abbey


oracle

[Climb01742]

no red meat since 1979. think if i ate a steak now, i'd (as they say in aussieland) holler ruth.

[larryp2]

vegetarian

[oracle]

www.beef.com

:beer: oracle

[davep]

Although I eat mostly fish and chicken, I do enjoy a decent steak occasionally. I don't worry a bit.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/cjd/cjd_fact_sheet.htm
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/bsefaq.html

[Louis]

Not an issue for me - I've been a vegetarian for years.

Louis

[PaulE]

Maybe I should be afraid but I'm not. Had a T bone for dinner last Saturday. I figured the cosmopolitan before dinner and the margarita with dinner would kill anything that needed killing. And my Bichon Frise made short work of the bone.

[jeffg]

enjoy red meat. While I prefer fish, I do get a hankering for steak-frites or a good stew (made a good one with beef, black olives, tomatoes, mushrooms, pancetta last night in fact). The mad cow scare didn't phase me when it hit Europe and I was living in Austria, and I don't plan to let it get to me now. Of course, I tend to buy nice cuts of meat when I do indulge, so I might think twice before going to Mickey D's. Then again, you should think twice before supersizing yourself anyway! If it does bother you, I say sit down with a bowl of moules frites and a Belgian ale for your next indulgence! :beer:

[slowgoing]

Double Double with cheese and onions at In-N-Out Burger. Mmmmm!

[shinomaster]

thanks Oracle....maybe I should just raise my own animals...

My brother has been a vegitarian for years and is always trying to convert me, like a born again Christian. I eat lots of boca burgers.. I just love a good steak though.

I do not trust the FDA. like all parts of the government they are affected by the money of special interest groups. Burp.

[DonG]

I know I'm going to regret putting my oar in the water on this but . . . a couple of thoughts.

If you are a vegan or vegetarian fine, that's your choice go for it.

If you’ve enjoyed beef in the past I would not let the WA incident of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) aka “mad cow” deter you from eating beef – unless you were planning on have parts of the spinal cord, brain, etc. That’s where the problem comes from and can be transmitted to cyclist.

A good cut of beef from a reputable supplier prepared correctly is not going to put you at risk. Being a Nebraska boy I prefer a nice aged New York strip or piece of sirloin from a corn feed Black Angus. Matter of fact, I think that’s what’s on the menu for tonight.

I know some don’t trust big brother but – here’s a link to the FDA info on BSE http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/bse.html

With 20" of snow on the ground we have to do something other than ride for the next few days.

[Kevin]

Count me as a meat and taters man. You can make it rare as well.

Kevin

[M_A_Martin]

Shino,
If you were going to be exposed to mad cow disease, its probably already happened. (isn't that comforting?)
Stay away from pre-ground meat Shino and you should be ok...

[hypnos]

Don't eat the brains or spinal cords.

[shinomaster]

my poor mom had to eat lambs brain salad when she was growing up to Turkey..Yuk! Maybe that's why she is a kook??

[Elefantino]

particularly not with fava beans and a nice kee-an-tee.
:eek:
Mike

[Redturbo]

I'm a member, People that Eat Tasty Animals.

turbo

[pbbob]

a big buford at checkers about every couple months or so.

[Kevan]

I ran out onto a field approached a cow and took a big ol' bite, right out of it's prime rib. Damned if that cow didn't turn out to be a bull! Cheese and crackers, that was one of the meanest... orneriest... and fastest dang animals I ever did see. If I didn't know better I'da sworn it was part cheetah.

Umm...any suggestions as to how I should treat this shoulder bite?

[Redturbo]

The best bread I've ever had was when I was in Turkey. Fresh out of the stone and fire oven.

turbo

[shinomaster]

I'm not against eating our friends who are, sadly for them, lower on the food chain. Nothing is more tasty than a braised rabbit, or Coq au Vin or Pave avec sauce Bernaise..
It is how Industy has taken over farming which has lead to a number of unhealthy practices that makes me think twice about that Wopper Junior..
Practices such as,

1) Eating downer cows
2) feading these cows to other cows. Yes!!! Guess who eats these cows? You!!
3) Pumping cows with growth hormones so they bigger and more tasty faster.
4) feading the animals grains covered with pesticides. In an animal toxins are stored in body fat. steaks and pork roasts are full of guess what? fat and what ever the animals consumed or were given.
5) pumping milk cows full of antibiotics so their utters can get really big.
6) grinding up hundreds of cows in huge vats together so you can get 99 cent burgers at you know where. Wow, that burger has the meat from 100 cows inside!! and a greater risk of having ecoli.

I could be wrong about the dangers of antibiotics and growth hormones in meat and milk. And the dangers of mad cow in the States. But this happened in Oregon and Washington state. I live here!
My uncle is actually one of the worlds leading dairy research scientists in Madison Wisconsin, and he thinks it's all just fine. He does work for the Government though..So I don't believe a word he says. ha ha...He is probably smarter than almost any of us too, especially me!
Since we all need protein this is a concern for some of us body builder types..
Where we buy or food does actually seem to matter. just a few thoughts.I am in no way suggesting that any of you stop enjoying your favorite foods, but you may think about how that food was grown. Burp..

[cycler48]

Vegetarian since 1986

[djg]

Cut down on burger meat, mostly because the wife is antsy about it. But we still eat beef. Not every day, but it's still in the rotation.

[Louis]

This is in response to Shino’s “Since we all need protein this is a concern for some of us body builder types” comment. I know you didn’t say “We all need red meat” but I have to add the standard vegetarian comment about the need for protein, and the quality of alternatives to animal sources:

I don't have the figures on hand, and I’m hardly an expert, but I do know that almost all of us get tons more protein than we need. In addition, there’s no reputable modern research that I know of that indicates that non-animal alternatives to Bessie the Cow or Charlie Tuna aren’t just as good at providing the amino acids required. The old “you have to eat lots of meat to get enough protein” is straight from the Beef lobby and is also bull. Who knows how much pressure they exerted on the government to influence the Food Pyramids of the past. Finally, plenty of top-notch athletes in both aerobic and anaerobic sports are vegetarians and their performance is not the least bit affected.

Bleeding Heart Liberal, Animal Loving, Tree Hugging, Louis

[shinomaster]

especially their vegetarian food. So many bean and lentil dishes. Red lentil soup, green beans cooked in tomatos and garlic, and fava beans, and okra stew, oh wait that has Lamb, never mind...the best Baklava, sorry you Greek People and Arabs too...The Ottomans ruled you all...such is life. Ha ha.

[Russell]

I think you have to worry more about hamburger than steak (ground up bad parts). Still I believe we are only going to see more of these types of animal related illnesses. Factory farming, over-population and of course $$$ are main reasons. I believe within the next 100 years most people in the west will be vegetarians.

[Ginger]

Shino, If you were going to get mad cow, you've probably already been exposed. (Stopped the dairy product yet? They haven't tracked all those cows down yet have they? They really don't know all the ways mad cow disease can be transmitted, witness the fact that they killed the whole herd of bull calves that contained the stricken cow's calf to contain the disease.)
I think that mad cow is the least of our worries in the food chain. Raising it yourself or supporting an organic farmer direct is the only way to know where it came from, no matter if you eat beef, or go vegan, or something in between.

Raising it yourself is the only way to know what went into your food, and how it was processed. Following it through the process is the only way to know that the organic, humanly raised cow named Daisy that you shipped to slaughter is the same beef that appears on your table for dinner.
Raising it yourself is the only way to know that the farmer who raised that vegetable didn't clear forests to grow it, treated their healthy workers with respect (no slaves, clean water, sanitary facilities), and didn't spray chemicals to kill naturally occuring plants and insects to produce your dinner.

Raising something organically is not where the process stops. When we had the farm we would go to inspect the hanging sides of beef, sheep, and occasional hog at the slaughterhouse to make sure the animal that we shipped in was the animal that our customers got back in neat little packages. Big business is big business and mistakes happen.

The process is changed now. They don't hang carcasses for 7-24 days to age the beef (and the flavor certainly suffers for not aging). They slaughter the cow and process it immediately into primal cuts. You can still get aged beef, but it is way more expensive and difficult to come by. "The Art of Eating" had a good article on aged beef a while back (Who me? A food snob? Yes.)

Want to loose your appetite for meat and become a vegetarian? Go to a local cattle auction, stick around to near the end. Michigan has had tight regulations about down and diseased cows, and has some of the best meat regulations in the states. But if you saw what sort of cattle go through at the end of the auctions, that are purchased by companies like McDonalds and large beef processors, you would loose your appetite for MickeyDs, I know I do. Funny thing is that way back when (before feeding animal protein was banned), cows would come through the auction that acted a lot like the video of the oregon cow....hmmm. Every one knew what the problem was, but not where it came from or how the cow got it.

Sometime someone will have to tell me why each and every animal that enters the food chain here in the US isn't thouroughly tested for a whole raft of things the least of which is mad cow. Other countries with high volume can do it, why not us?

On Venison:
For one, those rats eat in every pesticide/herbicide ladden corn field they can find. Second, they're having a problem with "wasting disease" which is...guess what...very similar to mad cow disease! If the deer is processed at home and boned out as opposed to sawed up you're probably ok...

On Rabbit:
If you've got to eat meat, rabbit is one of the highest protein, lowest fat meats with the quickest ROI on feed. Tasty too. It isn't as high in iron as red meat, but it is a good protein supply.

On Chicken:
Unless you're eating vegetarian fed, free range, organic, kosher chickens...don't think you're eating anything much more healthy than beef. Another chemically created and treated food. (I think that's what I'm having for dinner this evening.)

On Vegetables:
How about everyone out there who is not eating organic, "in season" vegetables? Do they really know what sort of pesticides, herbicides, and human issues there are involved in their food? Do they understand the environmental cost of their own dinner?
Lets have a salad in January, how about some of those chilean grapes in the dead of winter? How about a stalk of celery? Do you know how many chemicals are sprayed on the land just so you and I can eat a stalk of celery? Being vegan isn't environmentally sound unless you go the whole organic path.

And no...I'm not an expert. But I was raised on an organic beef and sheep farm, mom kept a three acre organic garden to feed a family of 6. I think its a shame that a large portion of our country does not know where its food comes from. It isn't practical to eat that way anymore...but it should be an option.

Stay away from pre-ground meat Shino and you should be ok...

[Bosun]

There is not a single part of the cow that goes to waste. Nothing. Tell me that's not a little spooky. What scares me is the cow matter that gets used everywhere. Would it shock you to know that cow bits are used in candy bars? Cow stuff is loaded into all kinds of sweet prepared foods--where you would never suspect.

:eek:

[shinomaster]

they are so cute!! But man they are tasty!!! The good thing about rabbits is that they breed like rabbits..

[oracle]

was, in the estimation of many historians, aided if not precipitated by lead poisoning which had become pandemic. my antipodean (1) nature leads me to envision a similar fate for our own empire, one in which our demos is slowly and inextricably withered into a state of chemically induced weakness from the prolonged and multi-generational consumption of toxins via our food sources. pesticides, growth hormones, mad cow, you name it. alzheimers, cancer, mental illness, all on the rise in our great land.
BEEF? its what is rotting in your colon.

i thank the pantheon that beer is meat-free

oracle

(1) see thread "tell it like it is, robbie" i assume that dr. d meant that i am a contrarian, and not from some far away place, but i could be mistaken.

[Climb01742]

another reason to (perhaps) not eat beef: the amount of resources that go into growing a pound of beef vs. a pound of, say, soy protein. beef is a tough "crop" on mother nature. not to mention no one is cutting down the amazon rain forest to grow soy beans. this isn't a rant. and people who eat beef aren't evil. (evil = tobacco executives). just my personal reasons for passing on burgers. and yes, the difference i make to the amazon is nil. but trying is, well, trying.

[shinomaster]

my brother has the same take on our modern day Roman empire.. Don't forget that much of the world hates us as we expand our influence and control over the globe..Maybe they will send in the barbarians to conquer us?:eek: :eek: :eek:

[davep]

which is one reason alzheimers, cancer etc are in the rise, because people are now living long enough to get such diseases. In the industrialized world life expectancy has increased gone from 45 in 1900 to 73 in 2000. In the developing world the increase has been even greater, 25 in 1900 to 61 in 2000. In the last hundred years we have gone from constant worries about not having enough food to a world in which there is an abundance of food. (Food shortages in the third world are more due to politics than agriculture). The average American spends much less on food today (as a percentage of income) than at anytime in history. We may well suffer the same fate as the Roman Empire, but I do not think our food supply will be the cause.

[oracle]

"Isn't man an amazing animal? He kills wildlife -- birds, kangaroos, deer, all kinds of cats, coyotes, beavers, groundhogs, mice and foxes by the million--in order to protect his domestic animals and their feed.

Then he kills his domestic animals by the billion and eats them.

This in turns kills men by the million, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative--and fatal--health conditions like heart disease, kidney disease, and cancer.

So then man tortures and kills millions more animals to look for cures to these diseases.

Elsewhere, millions of other human beings are being killed by hunger and malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestic animals.

Meanwhile, some people are dying of sad laughter at the absurdity of man, who kills so easily and so violently, and once a year sends out cards praying for 'Peace on Earth'"


from Old MacDonald's Factory Farm by C. David Coats



-------




The destruction of tropical rainforests at the rate of 50 acres every minute is not only destroying fruit-producing tropical ecosystems which are dependent on recycled moisture from their own aspirations, but it is also a direct cause of topsoil loss and stream siltation.

The loss of vegetation, including species still unknown, results not only in local desertification but changes rainfall patterns causing desertification in areas far away. E.g. Loss of rainforest in South America contributes to the expansion of desert in Africa. The burning of cut trees also contributes to acid rain which affects distant cities as well as indigenous people and wild animals.

Destruction of these forests is at least partly to blame for the decline in North American migratory bird populations. We are currently losing 1,000 wild animal species a year and unknown numbers of plants and insects.

The acceleration of rainforest destruction is primarily due to the demand for low cost beef to supply North Americans with hamburgers.

World hunger gets worse in proportion to human population growth. It is ironic that 90% of American agricultural resources are devoted to raising livestock for the production of meat and dairy products. While less fortunate people starve, we feed nourishing grains and legumes to animals instead of eating them ourselves. About 90% of the protein and 96% of the calories fed to beef cattle, for instance, are lost.

Over half the water consumed in the United States is used for raising animals for slaughter. It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat. This use of water is so great that it reduces rivers to trickles and limits the amount of water available for hydropower and non-animal agriculture. It has also contributed to the depletion of undergound aquifers to the the extent of causing land subsidence.

The meat industry now accounts for three times more harmful organic pollution than all other industries combined. Manure used to be recycled beneficially by microbes in the soil, but modern factory farm systems produce manure by the ton all in one place. It is a major source of stream pollution, using up oxygen and harming aquatic animals. The increased nitrate levels it causes in drinking water can cause brain damage in infants. There is also the problem of odor and air pollution.

And what about the pollution of your body? Every time you eat meat, you also eat traces of the antibiotics and pesticides that the animal was exposed to while living. Intensive "factory farm" conditions necessitate the routine use of both. Subtherapeutic doses of antibiotics produce faster growth and inhibit disease organisms that thrive in the unhealthy, crowed conditions.

Epidemiological studies have determined that the consumption of animal fats is a major factor in causing stroke, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and arthritis. We have learned that excessive consumption of protein strains the kidneys and leaches calcium out of the bones. Contrary to popular belief, most human bodies have evolved to function better on a vegetarian diet.

If animals could speak our language, they would tell us how chickens, pigs, and veal calves are confined in cages and stalls so small that they cannot stretch a wing or turn around; how they are subjected to painful de-beaking, castration, de-horning, tail-docking; how they are injected with hormones to promote unnatural growth and milk production; forced to breathe air heavily polluted with their own excretions, and to lie down on harsh concrete floors; how some of them have been artificially bred to produce meat fast - like chickens whose legs are not strong enough to bear their weight and pigs whose pelvises snap under their excessive weight.

Veal calves are taken from their mothers at birth or when a few days old and tethered in 22-inch stalls in dark sheds without bedding and fed a deficient diet to produce anemic white flesh.

All this so humans can indulge in a diet destructive to their health and the environment.


oracle

[Dr. Doofus]

The Well-Dictioned Doc Says:

"Antipodean antagonist": one from beneath the equator, perhaps on his or her own little marsupial-ridden continent (you did post your name and location once) who is of opinions occasionally contarary to the Doc and I; however, the doc knows that everyone is out to get him and is in his or her own threatening way, a contrarian; on the other hand, I like everyone; therefore, he and I are rather at odds on this issue.

[oracle]

thanks for clarifying, D good luck to you both in resolving your 'di'lemma.

:beer:
too bad i cant make red beer
oracle