OT: Any shooters in here?

[rice rocket]

Figured I'd come to you guys since you are the more mature crowd (rather than the younguns on rifle forums that want to fire the biggest thing they can get their hands on).

Thinking about picking up my first rifle for range shooting, but want it to be reasonable. Looking for something with a magazine. Lookin' at .22LRs mainly because it so cheap. If I have $100 burning a hole in my pocket, I'd rather shoot 2000+ rounds than only 300 if I picked a .223/5.56.

First thing that caught my eye was the new breed of "tactical" .22LRs. Seems like a good combo for versatility, and they supposedly shoot everything down to the cheapest of the cheap rimfires. Sig makes one that's 5xx styled, and S&W makes a AR15 styled (good for compatibility with attachments and stuff I guess).

Is it .22LR a bad choice? They're all small rounds, so recoil is almost nil and they're quiet as well. Does this mean I would have to relearn marksmanship if I "graduate" to a .223 or a .30-06?

[sg8357]

Try these guys, sort of the Rivendell of Rifles.

www.shilohrifle.com

Steyr Scout Rifle if you want something modern.
Jeff Cooper is the Jobst Brandt of shootin'

Track of the Wolf, were your 1780s hipsters learn to build
muzzle loading rifles.

[old_fat_and_slow]

Damnnit !! I thought this was gonna be a thread about billiards !!!

Back in the day, .22's were fer kids shootin' tin cans offah fence posts. May not be the case now. I'm not really up to speed on rifles anymore.

My recommendation though is, gettah centerfire caliber, and if the cost is gettin' to yah, start reloadin' yer own ammo.

[gdw]

For target shooting a decent quality bolt action .22 rimfire is what you need to start off with. Learn the fundamentals and the move to a centerfire is easy. "Tactical" .22's are for closet rangers. IMO

[goonster]

Ruger 10-22.

Anything semi-auto will need fairly "fast" ammo to not stovepipe occasionally, so if it's 100% reliability with cheapest-of-the-cheap you're looking for I'd go with a manual action.

"Tactical" is the "laterally stiff, vertically compliant" of firearms, imho. If you really need rails to mount lasers, strobelights and satnav, there are plenty of aftermarket stocks available for the 10-22, and it will serve mall ninja duty just fine.

[rpm]

This gun thread reminds me that the History Channel program Top Shot is starting its new season.

http://www.history.com/shows/top-shot

If you haven't seen it, it takes a group of good shooters with different backgrounds and has them compete firing all kinds of guns at all kinds of targets. It has the usual reality show shtick with two teams competing against each other, and one person getting eliminated each week, but it's fun nevertheless. Some of the shooting is amazing.

[alexstar]

for .22lr, start with a bolt action. I'm more of a pistol guy, but am seriously considering a CZ 452.

If you don't mind tinkering, go ahead and get a semi-auto. Just be prepared for the inevitable jams.

I've heard mixed reviews about the sig 522, sweet-looking though it is. Oh, how I covet...

[gasman]

I've shot several bolt action .22s they are simple and reliable. To really enjoy shooting a .22 rifle nothing beats a good target rifle. My brother-in-law has one and it is very fun. You can easily move up to larger caliber rifles once you learn the basics of shooting.

[Germany_chris]

is great for plinking at targets out to about 150M..when your comfortable move to centerfire just remember that ammo costs are going to get "exciting" I shoot 22 and 7.62X39 because I don't like the $1+ every-time I pull the trigger. The army probably took away the thrill for me but to put holes in paper cheaper is better.

[CNY rider]

Ruger 10-22.

Anything semi-auto will need fairly "fast" ammo to not stovepipe occasionally, so if it's 100% reliability with cheapest-of-the-cheap you're looking for I'd go with a manual action.

"Tactical" is the "laterally stiff, vertically compliant" of firearms, imho. If you really need rails to mount lasers, strobelights and satnav, there are plenty of aftermarket stocks available for the 10-22, and it will serve mall ninja duty just fine.

Exactly what I have and will serve the OP well withour breaking the bank.

[roydyates]

Gunfire makes me nervous. Here in Central Jersey, the good cycling roads are often near the good deer hunting woods. When I hear gunfire, I ride faster and think about about how far bullets might travel at life threatening velocities.

So how far I away do I need to be?

[CNY rider]

Gunfire makes me nervous. Here in Central Jersey, the good cycling roads are often near the good deer hunting woods. When I hear gunfire, I ride faster and think about about how far bullets might travel at life threatening velocities.

So how far I away do I need to be?

A good hunter always knows what he's shooting at and what's beyond the target.
So if everyone is using their head and doing it right you have nothing to worry about.
On the other hand, I see plenty of old pickup trucks cruising around here at 0600 during deer season with open windows and empty beer cans rattling around on the floor. I want to be miles away from those folks.

[goonster]

When I hear gunfire, I ride faster and think about about how far bullets might travel at life threatening velocities.
They travel very far.

Are there any counties in NJ that permit hunting with rifles? AFAIK, Montgomery and Bucks counties in PA, which should be fairly analogous to the less densely populated parts of NJ, are shotgun and bow only.

I keep telling myself to get a state game commission guide that spells this out, along with the seasons, so I know when to wear orange while walking the dawg.

[Ken Robb]

Basic marksmanship skills are the same no matter what caliber one is shooting. .22LR will teach you plenty and the cost of ammo is so cheap you can get lots of practice for little $$$.

FWIW I much prefer handguns to rifles because I'm usually shooting at nearby indoor ranges that are no more than 25yds. long. That's a bit close for rifles to be as much fun as a pistol.

.22 ammo boxes are marked "dangerous up to a mile". Larger calibers carry farther. Even when a bullet arrives beyond its maximum effective range it's still dangerous.

[Frankwurst]

Ruger 10/22 if you want a semi auto. Keep them clean and they are fairly reliable and there are all kind of after market goodies you can modify them with. 22 bolt action with a bull barrel if you want to get serious about target shooting. Optics are very important. You get what you pay for. Cheap optics are like most cheap bicycle parts. They may work, but how well. .223's are still relatively cheap to shoot and also a good choice for a fun gun. Good luck. Shoot straight and be safe. :beer:

[gdw]

"A good hunter always knows what he's shooting at and what's beyond the target. So if everyone is using their head and doing it right you have nothing to worry about."

Judging from what we used to see in Upstate New York and Maine, the only good (safe) hunter from New Jersey is the one passed out back in the deer camp. :banana:

[Jeff N.]

Now you're talkin' my language, man. Bikes and guns...my passion(s).
.22's are lots of (cheap) shooting fun. For semiautos (rifles) in that caliber, I find the Ruger 10-22 to be tops. For bolt action, the Remington 541-T or the Ruger 77/22 are tops when topped with the various Leupold or Burris scopes available, as well as many other brands.
For semiauto pistols, the Ruger Marl II's, Smith&Wesson Model 41, and Browning Buckmark pistols are all sweet.
For revolvers, find a S&W model 17 (blued) or 617 (stainless)in 4" or 6" barrel lengths. Hard to beat. The Colt Diamondback .22 revolver is also nice, but hard to find, and extremely expensive now, if you do find one.
Jeff N.

[roydyates]

They travel very far.

Are there any counties in NJ that permit hunting with rifles? AFAIK, Montgomery and Bucks counties in PA, which should be fairly analogous to the less densely populated parts of NJ, are shotgun and bow only.

I keep telling myself to get a state game commission guide that spells this out, along with the seasons, so I know when to wear orange while walking the dawg.
I don't know how a shotgun sounds compared to a rifle. I know I've gone on a winter ride where we stopped at a deli and our crew of hi-vis riders were out hi-vis'ed by the hunters. The hi-vis seemed to be the only thing we shared.

Between you and Ken Robb, I'm getting the impression that maybe my fear is rational.

[Fixed]

i read all the bob lee swagger books
bolt action with scope
cheers imho

[dekindy]

When I was a kid back in the late 60's, early 70's, my Dad purchased a Remington semi-auto that was extremely accurate. We had to use long rifles or it would jam. Lots of fun. Then my Dad put a scope on it and we had even more fun using official targets.

Fast forward a few years and doing research for my own rifle I picked a Marlin lever action.

[97CSI]

Figured I'd come to you guys since you are the more mature crowd (rather than the younguns on rifle forums that want to fire the biggest thing they can get their hands on).

Thinking about picking up my first rifle for range shooting, but want it to be reasonable. Looking for something with a magazine. Lookin' at .22LRs mainly because it so cheap. If I have $100 burning a hole in my pocket, I'd rather shoot 2000+ rounds than only 300 if I picked a .223/5.56.

First thing that caught my eye was the new breed of "tactical" .22LRs. Seems like a good combo for versatility, and they supposedly shoot everything down to the cheapest of the cheap rimfires. Sig makes one that's 5xx styled, and S&W makes a AR15 styled (good for compatibility with attachments and stuff I guess).

Is it .22LR a bad choice? They're all small rounds, so recoil is almost nil and they're quiet as well. Does this mean I would have to relearn marksmanship if I "graduate" to a .223 or a .30-06?Does 'range shooting' mean you want to compete or just plink. I agree that the Ruger 10/22 is an excellent place to start. If you decide you want to upgrade there are more aftermarket bits for the 10/22 then any other rifle than an AR. If you want a bolt-action, get the Ruger, as well. Same thing there. Inexpensive upgrades abound due to their barrel attachment configuration. If you want to compete at anything like a serious level, think $2K to get in the game with a .22 rimfire.

Am a competitive shooter and if I'm not on the bike I'm at the range. My two .22LR guns are a Remington 40-X with a Shilen barrel and a Winchester 1885 Low Wall. Both custom built (just like a nice bike). They are worth about the same as my Ottrott. Wonderful for 50yd and 100yd benchrest and 200yd silhouette. Also have a couple of Winchester 1885 High Walls. 32-40 for 100 & 200yd benchrest and Schuetzen targets and 32-55 for 200yd & 500m silhouette and 600yd mid-range. Building a custom Trapdoor 38-56 for the mid-range work in the future. Also shoot the AR and M-1 in service rifle competition. Do reloading to keep costs in check and get the best ammo. Occasionally shoot pistol competitions, but not very good at it. Great fun. Every bit as rewarding as riding a bike.

Hunting game with rifles is illegal in NJ. State law rather than by county. As densely populated as we are, not unreasonable.

[jaykosta]

Yes, a 22LR rifle is an excellent way to learn all the basics of rifle shooting

My choice (and what I suggest for you) is a magazine fed bolt action rifle that has the top of the receiver grooved so that scope rings can be easily installed.

If you want to try shooting with 'iron sights' (no scope), then an adjustable rear sight with a 'peep sight' aperture is best. The 'open rear sight' (a rectangular notch or V) is OK for 'fun plinking' but is not a good choice if you want real precision accuracy.

The Ruger 10-22 is a good semi-auto 22LR but the stock trigger is not best for precision shooting. There are tons a add-on accessories for them.
A 'good' trigger should 'break' very crisply without noticeable movement ('creep') when the trigger pull is increased from 'just not enough' to 'fire'.

I like a mag fed bolt action because -
1) they are fast & easy to unload when needed.
2) they are easy to 'single round load' when teaching someone new.
3) they have to be manually operated to fire another shot.
4) they are usually very reliable in operation.

For learning about 'long range' shooting, a 22LR is great when used at about 150-200 yards.

My suggestion is to first ask around at rifle clubs/ranges in your area and visit them when they hold events that are open to the public. This is a good way to meet the people and learn about the facilities.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
http://www.pronetisp.net/~jkosta/gunlinks.html
(some of the links are probably dead or out-of-date...)

[goonster]

Between you and Ken Robb, I'm getting the impression that maybe my fear is rational.
Not on my account, because I neither hunt nor own a centerfire rifle.

Anyway, since rifle hunting is not permitted in NJ, as noted above (thanks), you should not worry about stray rounds from hunters while out riding.

[jeo99]

is great for plinking at targets out to about 150M..when your comfortable move to centerfire just remember that ammo costs are going to get "exciting" I shoot 22 and 7.62X39 because I don't like the $1+ every-time I pull the trigger. The army probably took away the thrill for me but to put holes in paper cheaper is better.

150M with a .22? You are good!
:beer:

[97CSI]

150M with a .22? You are good!
:beer:We shoot 200yd silhouette all the time with our .22LR guns. Have a monthly match open to all at the Quinton Sportsman Club the first Saturday of the month. $8, includes lunch. All are welcome to join in the fun. We have a young HS English teacher who wins about half the time. She's tough.

[oldguy00]

What I used to use, but a bit pricey (really for competition):

http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/index.php5?menu=303&sprache=1

[Jeff N.]

For long range, I like the .22-250.

[gdw]

Make sure to buy some form of hearing protection. It's cheap and effective.

[Jeff N.]

Make sure to buy some form of hearing protection. It's cheap and effective.
Absolutely.

[97CSI]

Make sure to buy some form of hearing protection. It's cheap and effective.And eye protection. "Eyes and Ears On!!" is heard at all competitions and they are serious about it.

[rice rocket]

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Ruger 10/22 it is. There happens to be a gun show this weekend, I'll probably hit it up and see if there's anything good. I'll use it for plinking for now, and if I get really good, maybe I'll do some competitions. I'll see if my vision is good enough to use just iron sights.

[Ken Robb]

Some ranges offer rental guns which might help you decide what you like.

[97CSI]

Suggest you also purchase 2-3 additional magazines. Generally about $20/each for genuine Ruger. Stopping to reload is a PITA if you only have one or two magazines. Also, you want the longest barrel model (rifle rather than carbine) if you are interested in accuracy. Not that the long barrel is more accurate, but you want the longest sight-radius (distance between the rear sight and the front). If you really want to shoot the 10/22 in competition you'll want to get the apeture rear sight from Williams. Not only is it an apeture sight (the most accurate form of iron-sight) but it mounts on the back of the receiver and lengthens the sight-radius about 6 or 8 inches.

And, if you do start shooting competition, you will want to find out which ammo your gun prefers. All .22 rimfire rifles are picky about ammo and you have to find what shoots the best in yours. DO NOT shoot high velocity ammo if you are interested accuracy. Also, with a semi-auto it tends to beat-up your action for no reason. And, clean the action after every session. The waxy lube on .22 ammo tends to build up on the moving parts and you will start suffering jams if you don't keep it relatively clean. Not too important with a rimfire barrel if you don't shoot coated bullets (recommend you shoot standard velocity lead bullets for best accuracy - CCI standard velocity http://www.champchoice.com/cat-CCI-274.aspx is a decent place to start). Some folks shoot their rimfire rifles until the accuracy starts dropping off before cleaning the barrel. That can be several thousand rounds. Standard velocity lead-bullet ammo runs from $3/50 up to $20+ for the really good stuff (Eley Tenex http://www.champchoice.com/cat-Eley-277.aspx and RWS R-50, etc.).

[bobswire]

Check out Ruger Mark II or III Target Pistols while you are at the show. Excellent target pistols. I have the MKII I purchased over 20 years ago and still my favorite pistol. http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIITarget/models.html

[Ken Robb]

I borrowed a marlin 39-A for a thousand rounds and loved shooting it. I have a gorgeous Winchester lever action now. It needs more rounds through it for break-in but I usually shoot handguns.

[97CSI]

I borrowed a marlin 39-A for a thousand rounds and loved shooting it. I have a gorgeous Winchester lever action now. It needs more rounds through it for break-in but I usually shoot handguns.Great rifles. I shoot a Win Model 1894 chambered in 38-55 in our lever-gun competitions. Problem is, they are ~3X the price of a 10/22.

[jaykosta]

About cleaning the 22LR rifle (or pistol) ----

Barrel cleaning is typically not required or a regular basis - the barrel doesn't get fouled with lead or copper or powder residue because the 22LR is fairly low power and speed.
I do occasionally run a clean dry patch through the barrel just to wipe-it-out.

Do buy one of the green 'GI toothbrush' cleaners - they are great for cleaning the boltface, extractor hooks, breech end of the barrel, feed ramp, magazine lips etc.
I also use a Q-tip for cleaning, and for applying grease.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

[Frankwurst]

Check out Ruger Mark II or III Target Pistols while you are at the show. Excellent target pistols. I have the MKII I purchased over 20 years ago and still my favorite pistol. http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIITarget/models.html

Great pistols and a hoot to shoot. I paid $150 for mine in the 80's. I could not tell you how many rounds have been run through it (I can't count that high) and it still shoots great. Looks like s#4t after riding around in trucks and boats and what not over the years but still a great gun. :beer:

[alexstar]

Great pistols and a hoot to shoot. I paid $150 for mine in the 80's. I could not tell you how many rounds have been run through it (I can't count that high) and it still shoots great. Looks like s#4t after riding around in trucks and boats and what not over the years but still a great gun. :beer:

I'll second that, they are great guns. Completely customizable, too. I bought mine used for $100, tuned it up, match trigger, etc. and it shoots like a dream. If you want a semi-auto pistol in .22lr, the Mark II is hard to beat.

[rnhood]

The Ruger is a good gun, I've owned a couple of them starting with the original. But the model 41 reigns supreme when it comes to quality and accuracy - at least imho. The fit and feel can't be beat. But the Rugers are nice guns too.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3542/3348418982_743d88673c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68605598@N00/3348418982/)

[alexstar]

I would LOVE a model 41... I haven't been actively searching for one in years, though, and I'm assuming they're harder to find than ever. Most owners just won't part with them. :beer:

[97CSI]

Exellent source for guns is GunBroker.com. Am guessing there will be 25+ Model 41s on there. Wonderful pistols. Just like all S&Ws. Have the 5" heavy barrel target-model with a red-dot, but am mostly a long-gun shooter.

Just looked and only sixteen. Must be the economy as I notice that there is not nearly the number of guns or high-end stereo gear available as there has been prior to the latest downturn. Folks are defintiely hanging on to what they have.