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View Full Version : Legend ST vs. Legend Ti


sirroada
05-19-2005, 03:08 PM
I am about to unload more money on a bike than I ever have on a car. I am tied between a Seven Axiom or a Serotta Legend. I am wondering if anyone has imput on whether I should go with a ST version or standard Ti if I decide to purchase the Legend. Is the ST any good or am I better of with standard Ti?

Ahneida Ride
05-19-2005, 03:12 PM
Save your cash, I say go for the standard rear triangle. The frame
can be made quite comfortable ! and with the conventional triangle,
it's a frame your Grandchildren will be riding.

I have a Legend Rapid Tour and I love it. Consider rack mounts too !!!

saab2000
05-19-2005, 03:24 PM
Consider this - Can you go on the Seven website and ask Seven owners and non-owners alike what they think of Sevens? Didn't think so....

I have only heard of one or two cases here where the owners were not just gushy about their Serottas and in those cases the owners seemed to indicate that Serotta tried hard to make them happy somehow. I have not always heard such warm and fuzzy talk about Seven customer service.

That said, I don't own a Serotta or a Seven......... If I were getting a Serotta I would get a CIII.

sirroada
05-19-2005, 03:25 PM
I have heard that the ST can be a bit "bouncy". Is this true? Basically, I want a bike that goes fast (is effecient) but does so comfortably.

sirroada
05-19-2005, 03:26 PM
You are right. Customer service speaks VOLUMES!!!!

Ozz
05-19-2005, 03:45 PM
I have heard that the ST can be a bit "bouncy". Is this true? Basically, I want a bike that goes fast (is effecient) but does so comfortably.
"Bouncy"?? I have a hard time believing that to be possible....

Spec 32 spoke wheels and 700x25 tires and you will have comfy...."fast" is up to you! ;)

Find a good shop, tell them what you want, and Serotta will deliver. The hardest part is picking out the paint!

92degrees
05-19-2005, 03:48 PM
Have you ridden both? I had an Axiom for a pretty extended test ride and an Elium for a very long test ride(s). I prefered the Legend. I prefered the Legend ST to the Legend Ti. Then I had a nice test ride on an Ottrott and that decided it for me.

This is probably meaningless to you. Your tastes may be very different. I don't find the ST rear end bouncy at all...

Jeff N.
05-19-2005, 04:30 PM
I own both a Legend (non-st) and an Axiom Ti. Love 'em both. The Axiom has sexier stays & welds. Save a few hundred too! The Legend rides like no other. Its a toss-up. But stay clear of the ST thing. No necessario. Jeff N.

zap
05-19-2005, 05:06 PM
Comparing the Legend and Legend ST, it might depend on how and where you ride.

I tested a Legend ST and it was pretty darn good on the flats and climbs.

But the thing that got me was the way the rear ST pivot behaved on certain bumps, especially speed bumps at speed. It felt like the rear stay would compress a bit and then rebound. But this only happened on certain depressions and bumps. Beefier chain stays may have solved the problem.

On smooth roads it was not bouncy no matter how much power I put down.

It's been some time since I brought a Seven Axiom home, but the one thing I remember was how stiff the front end rode. Now this was with the Wound Up fork, so the new design might be different.

ergott
05-19-2005, 05:13 PM
Whatever you do, DO NOT test an Ottrott.













You will end up buying one immediatly.
Seriously, I've ridden both, but not enough to say one is better because the tubes can be tuned so many ways. Ask you fit tech what is best for what you want the bike for. They should be honest as to which one best suits your application.

Marco
05-19-2005, 06:06 PM
you have always a healthy dose of sensibility and skepticism about these things so I am intrigued. What does "The Legend rides like no other" mean to you?

Jeff N.
05-19-2005, 06:56 PM
you have always a healthy dose of sensibility and skepticism about these things so I am intrigued. What does "The Legend rides like no other" mean to you?...Like no other Ti bike that I own, that is.Out of all my bikes the Legend Ti has just the right combination of verticle compliance, road feel, ease of handling and responsiveness, and all-day comfort that I look for in a bike.

93legendti
05-19-2005, 07:27 PM
I am about to unload more money on a bike than I ever have on a car. I am tied between a Seven Axiom or a Serotta Legend. I am wondering if anyone has imput on whether I should go with a ST version or standard Ti if I decide to purchase the Legend. Is the ST any good or am I better of with standard Ti?


Depends on your body size and inetended usage. My legend Ti and Ottrott have the non-ST rear triangles. My HC Cross has the ST stays. I most notice the ST stays when cornering -- but I do not notice any bounce.

jerk
05-19-2005, 09:35 PM
get the legend. if you want titanium at the level of an axiom in terms of tube design, buy a fierte ti and save some cash. there is no ti bike like a legend ti. it's a world class race bike and there are few titanium bicycles which deserve that moniker. seven may make you feel uppity and wealthy and may do a better job at marketing the whole mostly irrelevent "custom" thing...but serotta has more history and ability to design proper racing bicycles.
be very wary of bike companies that ask "you" to provide all the elements of the design, it suggests a company which either has no coherant design philosophy or has a very elaborate marketing scam.
jerk

Needs Help
05-19-2005, 10:09 PM
Look at the image gallery. How can you resist the ST? :)

Bouncy?? It's not a shock with 4 inches of travel. At most, it has something like 5mm of travel, and that would probably require you to pull 10G's to activate all the way. Supposedly, the give of the tires will absorb most of the little shocks and it's not until you are really loading the rear while sweeping through a tight corner at speed that the ST stay does it's thing and loads up. Of course if you are cornering like that at speed, you probably won't out live the life of your carbon stay, so what's to worry?

aLexis
05-19-2005, 10:12 PM
get the legend. if you want titanium at the level of an axiom in terms of tube design, buy a fierte ti and save some cash. there is no ti bike like a legend ti. it's a world class race bike and there are few titanium bicycles which deserve that moniker. seven may make you feel uppity and wealthy and may do a better job at marketing the whole mostly irrelevent "custom" thing...but serotta has more history and ability to design proper racing bicycles.
be very wary of bike companies that ask "you" to provide all the elements of the design, it suggests a company which either has no coherant design philosophy or has a very elaborate marketing scam.
jerk

well said.

BumbleBeeDave
05-19-2005, 10:42 PM
. . . in May of 2001 I rode both the Legend and the Axiom and could not see any huge difference between the rides. But keep in mind that at that time I did not have a lot of experience with which to be discerning. I had ridden an aluminum Vitus for 17 years. Both rode like magic carpets.

But what decided me between the two was the fit and finish. The Serotta included the paint in the price and the finish on the orange demo frame was like a piece of jewelry--perfect paint, no edge to be felt to the decals--just beautifully finished. The Axiom had no paint at all--and they wanted something like $300 extra just for a one color finish. Plus the decals were incredibly chintzy. I could tell it wouldn’t take much to get them to peel off of the bare Ti. AND, with the all bare Ti and those huge chainstays, it looked way too industrial to me--like something that had just rolled out of a Russian tractor factory. In WW2 the Russkies were building their T-34 tanks and shoving them out the door to the front so fast that they didn’t even paint them. This really reminded me of that. It was just NOT a handsome bike.

Additionally, when they did my fitting at Wheelworks, I spent over an hour perched on the size bike while Doug McKenzie took all sorts of measurements and made all sorts of adjustments. While I was sitting there I couldn’t help but notice the name on the fit bike. It said S-E-R-O-T-T-A. Not Seven. Serotta. I got a concrete impression that the guy who designed this fitting system--Ben Serotta--really must know what he is doing in these matters. Now hmmm, who would I want building MY dream bike? I wonder . . . .

I have never been disappointed once in 15,000 miles--and counting. 37 more tonight.

BBDave

sirroada
05-19-2005, 11:45 PM
To everyone who responded:
Thank you very much for your opinions. You will all be happy to know that I am being fitted for a Serotta Legend Ti this coming Saturday morning. I probably will not sleep at all for the next two nights. I appreciate all your opinions because they really sealed the deal for me.
Tonight I did 30 miles on my 01 Trek 2300. (solid aluminum). After the ride I spent an hour picking the bike out of my hind end and decided I had had enough of stiff bikes. For the rest of this summer and the rest of my life I will be on Ti!! Now the only problem is what color to paint this work of art.

Climb01742
05-20-2005, 05:19 AM
i think you chose wisely. don't think you'll be disappointed.

BumbleBeeDave
05-20-2005, 08:20 AM
I’ll give Ben a call so he can send me my kickback! ;)

I suggest you do a few searches here on the forum for information on fittings. There are some things you can do to make your fitting session more effective and that will have a long-lasting effect on the satisfaction you have with your new bike.

1) Take your old bike--and shoes.

2) Be honest with yourself about what you want. When the fitter asks you about ride and handling desires, think honestly about how you REALLY ride, vs. how you would LIKE to ride in your boy-racer’s mind’s eye.

3) Whatever he tells you you need for a stem, consider picking up one on eBay 10-20mm shorter so you can start out with that one. I say that only because my fitter told me I rode hunched and needed to stretch out, but the original stem stretched me out too much all at once. Seems several others here have also had the “riding hunched up” problem.

BBDave

Ozz
05-20-2005, 08:59 AM
..I probably will not sleep at all for the next two nights...

That's optimistic! :rolleyes:

For the rest of this summer and the rest of my life I will be on Ti!!

Until you hang out here for awhile and figure out you need an Ottrott, or a steel bike (CSI, CIII, CDA), or an old frame to turn into a fixie, or a "french country bike, or......

Now the only problem is what color to paint this work of art.

Oh boy....now the hard part! FWIW, I think the 1/2 paint / 1/2 polish looks terrific on the Legend. White, with very simple decals.....check out recent threads for other opinions on how to paint & decal your bike.

Jeff N.
05-20-2005, 09:06 AM
Half & Half, black with white decals, black Ksyriums. BBBBBBBBBBBAD! Get a pump peg installed too. Better to have it and not need it than.................. Jeff N. PS: I also like a chain hanger, but for whatever reasons, Serotta doesn't offer one (like practically every other custom TI company) as an option.

Ozz
05-20-2005, 09:13 AM
ah yes, the pump peg. It is not necessary on a modern race bike, which is exactly why you should get one. modern bike with nod to tradition

csb
05-20-2005, 09:31 AM
legend

Tom
05-20-2005, 09:56 AM
in the Serotta gallery. Something along those lines would be very good as it demonstrates a true sense of style, urbanity, good breeding, a refined aesthetic and highly developed culture. It reflects very well on the person that would choose such an elegant scheme and is an expression of their, dare I say it, beautiful personality.

Needs Help
05-20-2005, 11:37 AM
:D

JohnS
05-20-2005, 12:03 PM
Depends on your body size and inetended usage. My legend Ti and Ottrott have the non-ST rear triangles. My HC Cross has the ST stays. I most notice the ST stays when cornering -- but I do not notice any bounce.
The ST stays and the HC DKS rearend are two entirely different animals.

dave thompson
05-20-2005, 12:15 PM
The ST stays and the HC DKS rearend are two entirely different animals.
The principals of the two are the same. The ST is an outgrowth of the DKS, developed by Dave Kirk, both of which provide a bit of 'suspension' to keep the rear wheel planted over irregular surfaces.

JohnS
05-20-2005, 12:20 PM
I thought that principles were those things that politicians weren't born with? :beer:

davids
05-20-2005, 12:56 PM
...we haven't been down this road in a while...

I knew it was only a matter of time before the Seven-bashing started. I'm not going to bother with rebuttals - Just be aware, sirroada, that the opinions and information offered here can be biased.

They're both great companies, and the Legend and Axiom are both superb bikes. You can't ( and didn't) go wrong. :beer:

saab2000
05-20-2005, 01:02 PM
The most comfortable bike I ever rode was a Seven Odonata. It used to be my dream bike.

I tested one at a shop and came away wildly impressed with the bike, but far less so with the dealer. The thing rode like it had about 65 PSI in the tires in terms of vertical complicance, but did not feel like that in any other plane. It was lively as heck.

But Serotta has become my dream bike. Seems a bit less "corporate" to me. A good friend of mine owns a Seven and is mostly happy with it. He is 6'7" tall and naturally has a heck of a time finding a properly fitting bike. He is someone who NEEDS a custom. It came with the fork they recommended. He subsequently had all sorts of problems with the fork and Seven refused to believe him regarding the problems he was having.

Finally, they did replace it and it was found to be severely damaged. I don't remember the specifics, but the fact that they were so tough to deal with post-purchase put a sour taste in his mouth.

He likes the bike, disliked the service he got.

93legendti
05-20-2005, 02:17 PM
The ST stays and the HC DKS rearend are two entirely different animals.

True, but the DKS rear end does have the pivoting ST stays.