Best tubular glue/adhesive for Veloflex

[saab2000]

So last week I bought 6 Veloflex Criteriums (criteria?). They will be retrieved from the guarded vault at my brother's house in Minneapolis in a week or so and installed on my Nucleons and my Ambrosios. Looking forward to it.

Anyway, is there a "best" glue for this job? I overheard someone saying that Tufo tape should not be used for these. I like the Continental glue because of its color. It does not show me as a complete hack of a gluer because it is not red. But my recollections from the past are that Clement Red was THE standard for tubular gluing.

What are people using? And is there any reason I should not give the Tufo tape a try with Veloflex?

[Jeff Weir]

Continental glue seems to work fine: I've been gluing Veloflex Criteriums with Continental glue for the last 3 years without any problems at all. With any glue, using a small plumbers brush really makes the job easier and cleaner.

[11.4]

The most analytical study of tubular adhesives determined that Vittoria Mastik One has the highest adhesion. Plus, there are a lot of potentially apocryphal arguments that Vittoria base tapes (and remember that Veloflex adopted the old Vittoria manufacturing operations) are glued on with an adhesive that's not completely compatible with other rim cements. This appears from personal experience to be quite true with 3M Fast Tack, and it appears in my experience that Vittoria glues don't do well with Conti tires (or perhaps Conti tires lose their base tapes with any glue), but I can't speak to personal problems with Conti glue on Vittorias/Veloflexes.

Do note that for the best adhesion, you want to scrape off the thin coating of latex on the base tape of the Veloflex. It comes off quickly. I inflate the tire (off a rim, obviously) until it's fairly hard to the touch and inverted, and then use a short flat file (with the ends wrapped in pieces of leather tennis racket grips so they don't cut up your hands). Scrape the edge of the file diagonally across the base tape, and be sure to get the latex off right to the edge of the base tape (since that's where the glue joint needs to be strongest).

I have never actually rolled a tire when the latex isn't removed, and I wonder whether the latex helps protect the base tape adhesion from deterioration either from water or from the effects of the rim cement. I've definitely had tires separate from base tapes (Conti's have been the worst in my experience, and the newer Vittorias the most resistant) and on the road at least, have come to regard this as a bigger problem than losing the base tape to rim adhesion. I glue carefully and have raced tubulars for a long time, so I haven't had the problems that arise from carelessness, but have always made a point of looking at tire failures and gluing failures (it's what keeps me careful with my own tires).

[theprep]

Saab2000

I used Conti glue (big yellow can) on some Veloflex Carbons (same tire with black sidewall I think) with success. I did not scrape the base tape and don't know if I was supposed to. I checked the bond just a couple of days ago after being glued for 3 months and everything looked fine. They are mounted on to Zipp 404's.

PS - I need some Phorum help.

On the same day I glued the Veloflex, I glued some Vittoria Corsa CX's to Velocity Escape Rims with the Continetal Glue. I did NOT scrape the latex coating off of the base tape. These tires are making a ton of SQUEAKING noise with every tire revolution.

I reglued the front tire (the bond was strong) and the squeaking noise went away for 3 rides only to return. When I pulled off the front tire, about 50% of the glue stayed on the base tape and the other 50% stayed on the rim.

I have some Tubasti Mastice glue I want to try. Do I have to clean off both the rim and Vittoria base tape? I have no idea how to clean the base tape.

Any other suggestions?

Saab - I apologize if my question detracts from your posts but I figured the response might prove usefull to you as well.

thank you,
Joe

[Too Tall]

I switched to Panaracer in the big can last yr. with EXCELLENT results. The can comes with a built in brush and it is clear so even better for us "hacks". Quality of yr. old glue is good eg. it stays somewhat pliable.

The Veloflex Crits I've installed had a solid laytex coating on the basetape as 11.4 says and I pretty much left it alone with just a paranoid roughing up with course sandpaper and a cleaning with damp towel. I like 11.4's method and think I'll go that route next time.

PS - I tried Mastik One. No discernable diff. to me any who.
PPS - Funny story. Yesterday riding home rear tyre went soft...this is my TUFO with alot of commuting miles on it...boo hoo. Went into the LBS to sit in comfort and chat with the wrenches while I changed it...but good news. The problem was my valve core came loose. So, I asked the most squirrely looking wrench if he'd do me a favor and give me a small piece of teflon tape and a needle nose plyers. The wrench says "what are you doing"...I explain and his response "tubulars are outdated, why the "f" would anyone ride those when technology has far surpassed?". He actually went on and on. My response? "Dood, thanks for the help. Clinchers SUCK". He went nuts, it was HILARIOUS. The shop owner was laughing his arse off and the wrench just could not see past his convictions. Sigh. ;)

[fjaws]

3M Fast Tack. Clear in color, works great when properly applied.

[Grant McLean]

The latest issue of velonews has a big article on glue. There are some
interesting results of the "carbon rim" issue too.

check it out

Grant

[saab2000]

Mr. Tall,

It has been my observation that most LBS wrenches are sort of useless. Occasionally there is still a good one, but lots have no clue. You should have asked him if the technology is so outdated, why do the pro teams almost exclusively use tubulars? It is not just because they are all old fashioned and stick to ancient technology.

No worries about the shift in the theme of this thread.

I did a search on tubular glue and did not find much. There is lots on tubulars in general, but specifically on tubular glue I did not find a whole lot.

I hope the base tape sticks to my Veloflexes. I have had continentals where it comes undone, including the Conti Sprinters which came with my Nucleons. They ride OK, but look ugly and they are coming apart. But the price was right..... :beer:

[musgravecycles]

Saab- read this when you get a chance...

http://www.engr.ku.edu/~ktl/index.html

[saab2000]

Interesting....

Sounds like the Vittoria glue is pretty good stuff. Thanks!

[Todd Owen]

Saab... on my non touring bikes.... I use the vittoria glue or the conti both with excellent results. the veloflex crit tires are awesome but they do wear our a bit quickly. still my first choice. I always put 2 thin coats of glue on tire and rim and then mount after they have all dried even overnight and have never had a problem. I also use a latex surgical glove when spreading glue which helps considerably.

[dirtdigger88]

Interesting....

Sounds like the Vittoria glue is pretty good stuff. Thanks!

thats what I am using on my new tubs- first ride tomorrow night!!!

Jason

[jerk]

saab-
it doesn't really matter what glue you use as long as you do the job right and use enough of it. (see munson for details). the jerk likes conti glue though.
jerk
(don't use 3m fast tack. they've changed the formula and it eats away at tires.)

[saab2000]

Jerk,

I have glued tons o' tubies in my past life. But my return to the tubular world is intended to be done "right". Whatever that means.

I used to used Tubasti and Clement red. And lots of it and I let it dry well before riding. I would try to roll them by hand and they were on good.

Just thought I would ask. I have no intention of using Fasttack

[jerk]

the jerk knows you know how to glue tubies right...(hey, the jerk still has some clement red, un-opened. can't vouch for its vintage but he'd give it to you for some of those wing pins you pilots give to kids.)

jerk

[pretty pony]

[QUOTE=saab2000]Mr. Tall,

"It has been my observation that most LBS wrenches are sort of useless. Occasionally there is still a good one, but lots have no clue."

Dear Saabwhatever, just a friendly note from a LBs wrench who has personally glued 6 tires this week alone. s*u*c*k me.

:beer:

[oracle]

i imagine that saab may have classified you as one of the good ones. there are however, plenty of mechanics who are barely competent and are wasting valuable oxygen that others in this overpopulated world could otherwise be breathing. "10 spd. campy&shimano? no way dude. wont shift right..."

oracle

[pretty pony]

Where's my magic happy wand??....there it is! Cantankerous!

PS. I love tufo tubular tape and I'm not afraid to say it. Easy, clean, adhears the living s* out of that thing. Damn! I said DAMN!

[saab2000]

Hey Pretty Pony,

They are not all incompetent. But go around to half a dozen shops as a civilian sometime. Go "undercover" if you will.

You will be astonished.

Of course there are good ones, but in my experience for every good one there are several bad ones.

I recently heard of (and saw the photos) of a bike bought at a Trek store. It was one of their most expensive models and on one of the first rides the guy shifted into the spokes, breaking off the derailleur hanger. At least at that LBS someone did not do their job.

Sorry if I lumped the good ones in with the bad ones. But there are plenty of bad ones. This forum is full of stories of them. The forum also has stories of good ones who redeem the industry.

[William]

Hey Pretty Pony, the random odds for getting a good wrench.....I'll give you four to one. Once you find that one...treat em like gold. Throw them a bone every once in a while to show your appreciation. What you drinking my friend? :beer: Better yet, this should bring back some fond memories for you.

http://www.x-entertainment.com/messages/591.html

I laughed, I cried, I......I......need a :beer:


William :D

(WARNING: Some language a little naughty. :no: )

[dirtdigger88]

[QUOTE=saab2000]Mr. Tall,

"It has been my observation that most LBS wrenches are sort of useless. Occasionally there is still a good one, but lots have no clue."

Dear Saabwhatever, just a friendly note from a LBs wrench who has personally glued 6 tires this week alone. s*u*c*k me.

:beer:


I think saab is correct here- I went tubular shopping about a month ago- I went to six shops in the area to ask about tubulars- 5 of the 6 shops either said that no one uses tubulars any longer or had no clue what to say. I even went so far as to tell each shop that I had already decided to try tubulars- I just needed advice on the tires. Most shops just gave me some song and dance about how I shouldnt use them- One shop Ghisallo (http://www.ghisallosports.com/) here in St. Louis did not- Dave just smiled and said he understood what I was looking for and began to help he out- Dave is even showing me how to glue the tires on so I know I am doing it right the first time. Funny thing- Dave used to sell Serottas. . . So my expereince is 1 in 6 shops were helpful on tubulars.

Jason

[saab2000]

Speaking of tubulars. I was paging through the QBP catalog at a friend's shop in St. Paul (a source of good tubulars and advice and wrenches, but he doesn't sell Serotta) and I saw that Deda makes (or at least markets) one now.

The price did not seem bad and from the specs it seems to be a decent tire, not just a cheap "training" tire, most of which are junk.

Anyone tried the Deda?

[Too Tall]

You got me man, never heard of them. I took a look however and they are nice ( http://www.dedatre.com/olimpico_en.php ).

For what it's worth I recently glued up a set of Hutcheson's for a guy...sheesh they def. fall into the category of garden hose. Model was Tubular Carbon Comp. Despite the stats which looked good I put much stock in how the tyre feels in my hands and quality of the build.