Approved "relevant" topics...suggestions anyone

[firerescuefin]

As many of you may be aware, there are some events that are taking place around the world that could very well be changing the balance of power and certainly could directly affect peoples lives worldwide. A forumite started a thread about this "taboo" topic and a 3-4 page civil dialogue took place that I found non offensive/informative/educational and interesting. The thread was shut down due to it being "political" and "non bike" related. So based on prior threads that have been allowed to run their course, I suggest we come up with some real stimulating topics that can get us through the winter.


1. Advantages of using carbon fiber presta valve covers vs. plastic, steel, ti.....discuss.

2. What color fingernail polish(s) can be used to replicate the red in scratched FSA/3T/Bontrager components when I get a surface scratch in them?

3. What temperature/and for how long should I age my tubulars before they give me the optimal ride?

4. What did Nostadamus have to say about the superiority of lugged steel vs carbon fiber in bike construction, and what year did he predict that carbon fiber use in bicycles would lead to the end of the world.

5. There was a 4-5 page discussion on what to do with a new chain (lube it/ride it/soak it/etc.)....we certainly did not really get down to the bottom of it. Clearly its worth at least 4-5 more pages.

6. Other "relevant" topics that we could revisit run from what computer someone should get there daughter for college to complaining about firefighters for the Fill the Boot fundraising drive (raising money for MDA) by collecting money on the side of the road.

I am sure that many of you have better ideas than I. But let's make sure not to discuss events that may be changing the face of modern history.

[old_fat_and_slow]

But you forgot

Campy vs. Shimano ???

We can discuss that ad infinitum, and that will have global repercussions, won't it?

[avalonracing]

How about:
Is it worth the upgrade to upgrade to Campy 11-speed or are Sarah Palin supporters just a bunch of misguided, ill-informed, undereducated lemmings?




aaaaannndddd Locked. :D

[Charles M]

Personally this seems like a lot easier task than it keeps being made.

Just dont ring up the same ***** that got locked...


few thousand threads that don't have to be considered mindless BS just because they didnt get locked...

[StellaBlue]

History has told us they don't stay civil and on topic. I'm in the camp that believe a cycling forum should stay on the topic of cycling.

PS: I bet the mods find wise ass threads as annoying as political ones.

[William]

Oh boy, here we go again. :rolleyes:




William

[fourflys]

PS: I bet the mods find wise ass threads as annoying as political ones.


exactly...

OP- I'm not sure what you thought would gained by starting a thread that basically is mocking the Mods and the great job they do...

Did you bother to PM the mod that closed the thread in question? If not, you have no legs to stand on...

Bottom line is this- This forum (or any one) has a core group of moderators that do a thankless job for nothing except the constant barrage of crap they get from forum members... BUT, the Mods have a job to do and if you don't like the way they do it, PM them and ask why... OR move on to somewhere else...

I hate to sound like an a$$, but this thread is just asinine....

[BumbleBeeDave]

The rules are clear. Political threads were outlawed after YEARS of debate among moderators because they have caused any number of problems in the past about which you may not be aware. These threads always go south. It may happen after 10 posts or ten pages of posts, but they inevitably end with people throwing cyber-poo at each other.

If you would like to lobby with the moderators to change the rules back, by all means have at it via PM. If you would like to volunteer to be a moderator and have a role in these kinds of decisions, again by all means go for it with Pete via PM. Otherwise, you might want to take a look at the forum user's agreement you signed off on when you joined. It's clearly described in there, as far as I know.

I mean no disrespect--it's just that this decision was made, was heavily debated at the time, and is now policy. It doesn't seem to do a lot of good to keep re-hashing it every time a political thread gets locked.

BBD

[Blue Jays]

Just received a very gracious PM from William earlier.
He said he now recognizes the brilliance of an OT subforum.

:banana: :hello: :banana: :hello:

[JMerring]

He said he now recognizes the brilliance of an OT subforum.



been there, done that, already. i liked it; many didn't; it didn't survive.

[firerescuefin]

Having been around only 6 months, I do not appreciate the history of this place.

My "smart ass" OP reflects my frustration that a thread that was enlightening and actually had historical substance was closed....and I get to look forward to what....more threads about carbon fiber presta caps, and yet another thread about someone explaining that the use of Carbon Fiber is the seven sign of the apocolypse (and I love cycling posts)...or allowed OT subjects that are baseless attacks on someones pet peve for that day.....many of which have mods adding their 2 sense(s) worth.

I certainly can understand why people come and go.

[Blue Jays]

"...been there, done that, already. i liked it; many didn't; it didn't survive..."I was jokingly pulling William's leg. There was no PM.

[William]

Just received a very gracious PM from William earlier.
He said he now recognizes the brilliance of an OT subforum.

:banana: :hello: :banana: :hello:

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/072009/1247133933_star_wars_mc_hammer.gif

Blue Jays: We need an off-topic sub forum.
William: [with a small wave of his hand] We don't need an off-topic sub forum.
Blue Jays: We don't need an off-topic sub forum.
William: These aren't the threads you're looking for.
Blue jays: These aren't the threads I'm looking for.
William: You can go about your business.
Blue Jays: I can go about my business.
William: Move along.
Blue Jays: I'm moving along... moving along......

:D

[Louis]

He said he now recognizes the brilliance of an OT subforum.

Also known as a "cage match" sub-forum, where anything goes and nearly every nasty topic or conflict is sure to come up sooner or later.

I was originally for it, but after a while the full-contact posting did seem inappropriate for a Serotta sponsored forum. I wasn't that bummed to see it go.

[fourflys]

Having been around only 6 months, I do not appreciate the history of this place.


which is why a quick PM to the Mod that closed the thread would have been very enlightening...

still, your initial post came off very confrontational and argumentative...

[fourflys]

I wasn't that bummed to see it go.

neither was I...

the mods are pretty loose with topics except for religion or politics... not much different from many other forums...

I know they have an OT forum across the hall now (was set up right after I was banned off an OT thread)... I wonder if they allow religious or political topics in their OT section?

[ergott]

I don't know why it's so difficult to respect the wishes of the host.

They don't want politics etc. discussed here.

[veloduffer]

On a golf forum that I used to frequent, they had a separate sub-forum for political discussion. You needed get permission to join from a mod. Since the link to this political subforum was at the bottom of the webpage, it was known as "The Dungeon".

Alot of times, folks would turnaround and ask the mods to cut off access. It could get really heated and sometimes petty; kind of like the overall political environment at times. But there were a few folks who tried to engage in thoughtful discussion. Being a golf forum, the number of rightwingers to leftwingers was about 15 to 1. What inflames folks is often the perceived tone of the forum message - it's not always indicated of something that may be tongue-in-cheek and folks take offense. Texting is a poor form of communicating, unless you are a good writer.

The Egypt thread would have been better if it discussed possible effects like oil prices, regime changes (Syria, Saudi), etc. Oh well....

[fourflys]

Being a golf forum, the number of rightwingers to leftwingers was about 15 to 1. .

now, THAT's funny! :D I golf left-handed if that tells you anything... ;)

[StellaBlue]

I certainly can understand why people come and go.

I think RBR or Bikeforums.net have a political subforum. They'd be happy to have you. If you come to a cycling forum to be "enlightened" or educated on the political climate of the world, you have bigger issues than this post...

[TMB]

I dimly cannot understand why people insist on starting threads like this one.

So what, the thread on Egypt got closed?

The moderators made a decision, grow up and move on.

OP, I just don't get why you thought this was a good idea. Not at all. Certainly not funny.

[firerescuefin]

I think RBR or Bikeforums.net have a political subforum. They'd be happy to have you. If you come to a cycling forum to be "enlightened" or educated on the political climate of the world, you have bigger issues than this post...


Do they have a forum for disagreeable, small dik'd peg riders....I have no doubt that you'd know.

[rugbysecondrow]

Firerescuefin and the Mods are all good people. I don't think malice was intended, just a legit question laced with a little humor. In the Egypt thread, one Mod let it go, then another closed it. I am not arguing who is right or who is wrong (or even if there is a right or wrong) what I am saying is that it seems a bit inconsistent. BBD says "the rules are clear, no political threads", but can't you see how a new person would find that interpretation a bit muddled and would cause confusion? For instance, why did the Egypt thread close and not the Volt thread http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=84963? Both have politics, both are civil, but it seems one is more acceptable than the other. I am not arguing rules, just interpretation.

[rugbysecondrow]

I think RBR or Bikeforums.net have a political subforum. They'd be happy to have you. If you come to a cycling forum to be "enlightened" or educated on the political climate of the world, you have bigger issues than this post...


A lot of smart people here, with quite a lot of well thought out positions. Some of those discussions were great because the people HERE having them are great, IMO.

[StellaBlue]

Do they have a forum for disagreeable, small dik'd peg riders....I have no doubt that you'd know.

Yes, I'm a mod there...

Touch a nerve sweetheart.. :)

[TMB]

Do they have a forum for disagreeable, small dik'd peg riders....I have no doubt that you'd know.


This is one of the most dis-agreeable things I think I ever read on this forum.

Really uncalled for.

[StellaBlue]

A lot of smart people here, with quite a lot of well thought out positions. Some of those discussions were great because the people HERE having them are great, IMO.

I'm 100% certain there are many people on here with a wealth of info on countless topics. Doesn't mean our host or mods are interested in entertaining it. Not so difficult to respect the rules or wishes of said folks

[rugbysecondrow]

I'm 100% certain there are many people on here with a wealth of info on countless topics. Doesn't mean our host or mods are interested in entertaining it. Not so difficult to respect the rules or wishes of said folks

Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating for a change to anything or a disrespect to the rules set by Serotta, I was responding to you when you wrote, "If you come to a cycling forum to be "enlightened" or educated on the political climate of the world, you have bigger issues than this post..."

You may believe your statement but I always found the discussions good here and worthwhile. And, incidentally, you are correct that there are many people here with a wealth of info on countless topics, but incorrect in your application of that statement. The OT threads here make the forum special, the knowledgeable people make the forum special. Its not just about bikes my man, it is the other stuff in addition to bikes that makes this place special.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is that the Serotta forum is sponsored--and paid for--by Serotta and therefore what takes place here reflects on the Serotta brand.

The political content rule was arrived at after much public discussion--and far more private discussion that any non-moderator can know. I have been here since 2002 and I lobbied for the rule because I own a Serotta, I have some loyalty to the brand and the people associated with it and this place has taught me far more in the years I have been here than I could ever list.

I go with the percentages--and in the years I have been here the percentage of political (or religious) threads that did NOT end up in petty, bitter, embarrassing cyber shouting matches could probably be counted on the fingers of both my hands, but no more than that. Add it up--that's less than one such thread per year that turned out good.

Every time one of these threads heads south and ends up with posts like those speculating on the lack of genital endowment of riders of a certain brand of bike . . . it reflects on the Serotta brand.

Why is that so hard to understand? All of us are guests in Serotta's 24-7 neighborhood tavern of cycling where you can always find somebody to sit down with and discuss our one overriding mutual interest--cycling.

You don't have to own a Serotta . . . or even like Serotta's, for that matter. You can even say so--loudly--as long as you do so with some degree of intelligence and logic. You can talk about other stuff all the time if you want. But the owner of the tavern (Ben) doesn't want you embarrassing him by your behavior, and he's hired some managers (we mods) to make sure people follow the rules. One of the rules is that you can't sit at the bar and discuss politics or religion, because such discussion invariably end up in fights that tear up the place and embarrass the owner.

Again, why is this so hard to understand? Look up and down the virtual street. Are there ANY other taverns within sight sponsored by a bike brand that offer similar freedom of expression to the point where you can publicly call the owner's product inferior without getting thrown out? I don't see any . . .

Like any real life tavern, you are always free to walk out and seek another tavern like RBR's place, the Weight Weenies Club, or even the Velocipede Saloon if you are in search of someplace where you can walk in, urinate in the middle of the floor, and dare anybody to disagree with your political or religious views.

But not here.

Seems pretty clear to me.

BBD

[Fixed]

from being here a while
i know this stuff leaves a bad tastes
imho cheers

[William]

. . . is that the Serotta forum is sponsored--and paid for--by Serotta and therefore what takes place here reflects on the Serotta brand.

The political content rule was arrived at after much public discussion--and far more private discussion that any non-moderator can know. I have been here since 2002 and I lobbied for the rule because I own a Serotta, I have some loyalty to the brand and the people associated with it and this place has taught me far more in the years I have been here than I could ever list.

I go with the percentages--and in the years I have been here the percentage of political (or religious) threads that did NOT end up in petty, bitter, embarrassing cyber shouting matches could probably be counted on the fingers of both my hands, but no more than that. Add it up--that's less than one such thread per year that turned out good.

Every time one of these threads heads south and ends up with posts like those speculating on the lack of genital endowment of riders of a certain brand of bike . . . it reflects on the Serotta brand.

Why is that so hard to understand? All of us are guests in Serotta's 24-7 neighborhood tavern of cycling where you can always find somebody to sit down with and discuss our one overriding mutual interest--cycling.

You don't have to own a Serotta . . . or even like Serotta's, for that matter. You can even say so--loudly--as long as you do so with some degree of intelligence and logic. You can talk about other stuff all the time if you want. But the owner of the tavern (Ben) doesn't want you embarrassing him by your behavior, and he's hired some managers (we mods) to make sure people follow the rules. One of the rules is that you can't sit at the bar and discuss politics or religion, because such discussion invariably end up in fights that tear up the place and embarrass the owner.

Again, why is this so hard to understand? Look up and down the virtual street. Are there ANY other taverns within sight sponsored by a bike brand that offer similar freedom of expression to the point where you can publicly call the owner's product inferior without getting thrown out? I don't see any . . .

Like any real life tavern, you are always free to walk out and seek another tavern like RBR's place, the Weight Weenies Club, or even the Velocipede Saloon if you are in search of someplace where you can walk in, urinate in the middle of the floor, and dare anybody to disagree with your political or religious views.

But not here.

Seems pretty clear to me.

BBD

http://pictures.funnyjunksite.com/wp-content/uploads/539/100_0718.jpg


Yup. What Slim said.



William :)

[rugbysecondrow]

. . . is that the Serotta forum is sponsored--and paid for--by Serotta and therefore what takes place here reflects on the Serotta brand.

The political content rule was arrived at after much public discussion--and far more private discussion that any non-moderator can know. I have been here since 2002 and I lobbied for the rule because I own a Serotta, I have some loyalty to the brand and the people associated with it and this place has taught me far more in the years I have been here than I could ever list.

I go with the percentages--and in the years I have been here the percentage of political (or religious) threads that did NOT end up in petty, bitter, embarrassing cyber shouting matches could probably be counted on the fingers of both my hands, but no more than that. Add it up--that's less than one such thread per year that turned out good.

Every time one of these threads heads south and ends up with posts like those speculating on the lack of genital endowment of riders of a certain brand of bike . . . it reflects on the Serotta brand.

Why is that so hard to understand? All of us are guests in Serotta's 24-7 neighborhood tavern of cycling where you can always find somebody to sit down with and discuss our one overriding mutual interest--cycling.

You don't have to own a Serotta . . . or even like Serotta's, for that matter. You can even say so--loudly--as long as you do so with some degree of intelligence and logic. You can talk about other stuff all the time if you want. But the owner of the tavern (Ben) doesn't want you embarrassing him by your behavior, and he's hired some managers (we mods) to make sure people follow the rules. One of the rules is that you can't sit at the bar and discuss politics or religion, because such discussion invariably end up in fights that tear up the place and embarrass the owner.

Again, why is this so hard to understand? Look up and down the virtual street. Are there ANY other taverns within sight sponsored by a bike brand that offer similar freedom of expression to the point where you can publicly call the owner's product inferior without getting thrown out? I don't see any . . .

Like any real life tavern, you are always free to walk out and seek another tavern like RBR's place, the Weight Weenies Club, or even the Velocipede Saloon if you are in search of someplace where you can walk in, urinate in the middle of the floor, and dare anybody to disagree with your political or religious views.

But not here.

Seems pretty clear to me.

BBD

Then you should close the Volt thread and any other similar types of threads that pop up. If it is clear that no political content is tolerated, then that thread should be closed as it clearly contains political content.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Mods are always happy to respond to requests.

But I don't recall any posts there from the last time I read directly involving partisan politics.

BBD

[rugbysecondrow]

Mods are always happy to respond to requests.

But I don't recall any posts there from the last time I read directly involving partisan politics.

BBD

I didn't know partisan politics was the line. If you are going to have a rule and more importantly standards, then enforcement is everything. It must be clear and swiftly applied. If it is politics, then nip it in the bud. It is not about thread closure so much as curbing behavior so that new threads like that don't pop up. Clear enforcement is key. Isn't that easier than closures?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . would you suggest that we "curb behavior?"

To nip it in the bud as you suggest all of us mods would have to be clairvoyant. You set a standard that we clearly cannot meet--that nobody could meet.

I've read the Volt thread. I see nothing wrong with it at this time. If I do later I might close it. Another mod might see something wrong with it right now and close it--and I would support them because I know they acted in good faith.

You are setting standards that we would have to meet for your satisfaction that are clearly impossible to satisfy. We mods are not perfect and we admit that. Any forum member who cannot deal with that can, I guess, vote with their feet.

BBD

[pbjbike]

Most reading this thread would get along in person 99.9% pf the time as long as the subject remained cycling, music, Rapha, et al. As soon as the topic turns to religion or politics, the agreement level goes down to an even split. Depending on how far the discussion goes, we might never ride together again. Why go there? No one's opinion will be changed, you lose a good riding buddy, the world keeps turning...

[avalonracing]

The Chevy Volt thread deals with a fuel efficient vehicle. Clearly anything fuel efficient is pro-environment, commie-pinko, educated-elite, science-based, freedom-hatin' drivel. ;)

[rugbysecondrow]

PM'd you






. . . would you suggest that we "curb behavior?"

To nip it in the bud as you suggest all of us mods would have to be clairvoyant. You set a standard that we clearly cannot meet--that nobody could meet.

I've read the Volt thread. I see nothing wrong with it at this time. If I do later I might close it. Another mod might see something wrong with it right now and close it--and I would support them because I know they acted in good faith.

You are setting standards that we would have to meet for your satisfaction that are clearly impossible to satisfy. We mods are not perfect and we admit that. Any forum member who cannot deal with that can, I guess, vote with their feet.

BBD

[ergott]

. . . would you suggest that we "curb behavior?"

BBD

Delete the threads immediately. Then delete the threads like this one. People will get the idea soon enough.

Locking threads just adds fuel to the fire.

- :beer:

[rugbysecondrow]

The Chevy Volt thread deals with a fuel efficient vehicle. Clearly anything fuel efficient is pro-environment, commie-pinko, educated-elite, science-based, freedom-hatin' drivel. ;)

See, you get it. :beer:

[rugbysecondrow]

Delete the threads immediately. Then delete the threads like this one. People will get the idea soon enough.

Locking threads just adds fuel to the fire.

- :beer:

I agree with him. Nip it in the bud. Clear, and consistent.

[majorpat]

to read the Chevy thread. Do I need to register in a particular political party to purchase a car?

[pbjbike]

No, just vote with your wallet! :beer:

[Lifelover]

.....If you are going to have a rule and more importantly standards, then enforcement is everything. It must be clear and swiftly applied....


We are talking about an internet forum, not a government. Let the Mods mod as they see fit. Accept it or move on.

If it bothers you that much do what too tall et al did and start a new forum where you get to be king.

[rugbysecondrow]

We are talking about an internet forum, not a government. Let the Mods mod as they see fit. Accept it or move on.

If it bothers you that much do what too tall et al did and start a new forum where you get to be king.
A) Since when is running away a suitable alternative? B) that is not an answer to any question that has been asked.

[StellaBlue]

A) Since when is running away a suitable alternative? B) that is not an answer to any question that has been asked.

He's not saying "run away". This isn't a democracy or the First Amendment.. If the rules bother you or the way it's run, nobody is forcing you to participate..As one of the mods said, there are numerous alternatives..

[akelman]

Now that you mention it, this place could use a constitutional convention. We could all elect representatives who would then gather somewhere warm (preferably near mountains and a beach), ride all day long, and then (over wine and beer) fight about codifying the rules at night.

[rugbysecondrow]

He's not saying "run away". This isn't a democracy or the First Amendment.. If the rules bother you or the way it's run, nobody is forcing you to participate..As one of the mods said, there are numerous alternatives..

You guys are funny, but I do appreciate your suggestions. There are other alternatives, one is to explain a point of view that might cause one to think or might impact in some positive way the forum. I have PM'd BBD offline, so this discussion is not just posturing. The suggestion to take it or leave it is one approach, I prefer to try a different route.

[Lifelover]

... one is to explain a point of view that might cause one to think or might impact in some positive way the forum.....

If you want to spend your time pondering as to how to improve the forum, have at it. Just don't get pissy when know one cares.

[rugbysecondrow]

If you want to spend your time pondering as to how to improve the forum, have at it. Just don't get pissy when know one cares.

You cared enough to respond twice. I am not pissy at all and will sleep like a babe. Cheers!

[SoCalSteve]

Ok, gonna do the moderator thing and close this thread.

Should have deleted it when it got personal with name calling and all, but...

Hopefully something constructive comes from this. Not sure what that might be.

The political threads ALWAYS end up going south. We try and try to keep them open and then....well, you know what happens.

Maybe we do need swifter action and just delete, delete, delete. But, I am not sure thats what Pete really wants this to be. His has grander ideas and lets threads stay open longer than the other mods do...

But hey, thats Pete and we love him!

Closing now....