Ultra training (last minute-ish)

[scrooge]

Seeing the discussion between TT and JeffG on ultra training gave me hope for finding some much needed advice/encouragement on this forum.

I signed up to do a 24 hour challenge on June 18/19 ("National 24 Hr challenge in Grand Rapids, MI) a while back full of good intentions. The problem is that they've remained just that and I haven't gotten the training in I've wanted to. To date, I only have about 1100 miles on (outside) and my longest ride is @ 80 miles (I'm planning a century this weekend) :crap: So now, my current plan is to do the event anyway and just shoot for 200-250 miles (this is my first such event, so that would still be a PR) The good thing is that I live about 30 miles from where the event is being held so I'm familiar with the terrain. Anyway, the question(s):

1.) What kind of training should I be doing during this last month (and yes, I've checked ultra-cyclings website but I'm obviously way behind schedule there).

2.) Any other tips for doing these sorts of events?

Thanks
JS

[pbbob]

I did a non competitive 24 last summer without any specific training and am debating whether to do it again this year but a 12 seems more likely. I just did a bunch of century rides prior to it. maybe tried to ride them a little harder than usual.
I ended up doing 240 miles. 275 to 300 would have been possible if the ride started at 7 am instead of 7 pm. that extra 12 hours of being awake ended up hurting pretty bad and I didn't get anywhere the last 6 hours or so. bring some extra shorts to change into at some point is my only other suggestion. if the weather is good you will have a good time and I think you will be surprised how far you end up going!

[Too Tall]

Knock out some back to back long rides to help you prepare. Shoot for 6-8 hrs. on the bike with minimal stops. Practice your rest stops: stop, make bottles, re-apply arse lube, (pretend) change batteries, check your rig and giddyup. Have your race lights on the bike for the practice runs.

Minimize potential logistical and physiscal issues such as nutrition and lighting by nailing it well before the ride...afterall we know you can ride a bike.

When you do the back to back rides use same nutrition you plan to employ at the event.

During the ride use a "cheat sheet" to track your nutrition. Things get fuzzy after a while so it's OK to cheat with crib notes.

[scrooge]

...afterall we know you can ride a bike.
.

let's not give me too much credit here :D

As far as nutrition goes--can you recommend a good resource? I'm new to the whole bike food thing (just ordered my first gus, powerbars, and cytomax--I've been a water and banana/granalo bar guy up until now).

[Too Tall]

Yeppr :) Call the good people at e-caps / hammer nutrition or order from the web. Get the following:
1. Sustained Energy (1 big jug)
2. Endurolytes (1 bottle)
3. Hammer Gel (1 jug your fav. flavor)
*4. H.E.E.D. (use this for your on the bike sports drink if you like the idea...it is optional and has no simple sugar...one of the only you'll find.)

Follow the recommended usage(s). That's a real good start.

I'd recommend ditching all simple carbs during riding to the extent that is practical eg. avoid the following examples: soda, Candy, sports bars,

You will do very well on just liquid calories for the whole 24 hrs. If you stop for an extended break of more than 1 hrs. Than have a simple tupperware container of plain boiled potatos garnished with olive oil / salt / pepper and maybe a boiled egg. Keep it super simple. Again no simple carbs.

Scrooge I am a sponsored athlete with E-Caps, that should be said right?

[gdw]

I agree with the advice given so far. Long rides over 8 hours are really important if this is your first endurance event. What works for a century doesn't always work for an ultra. You want to make sure that your saddle, shorts, and shoes are comfortable for the long haul. Be prepared to deal with hot feet and saddle chafing.

Start sampling different gels and liquids asap. You need to insure that your body can tolerate them. If you have problems don't worry. I've worked at the aid stations for a 100 mile trail run and a number of the athletes compete on normal food without problems. Potatoes, ramon, ham sandwiches, MM's, banana's, flat coke, etc are popular and work for some of the contestants. Find out what works for you and make sure that you stay hydrated and eat even if you don't think its necessary.

Here's a link which might come in handy:http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/nutrition.html

[Len J]

Seeing the discussion between TT and JeffG on ultra training gave me hope for finding some much needed advice/encouragement on this forum.

I signed up to do a 24 hour challenge on June 18/19 ("National 24 Hr challenge in Grand Rapids, MI) a while back full of good intentions. The problem is that they've remained just that and I haven't gotten the training in I've wanted to. To date, I only have about 1100 miles on (outside) and my longest ride is @ 80 miles (I'm planning a century this weekend) :crap: So now, my current plan is to do the event anyway and just shoot for 200-250 miles (this is my first such event, so that would still be a PR) The good thing is that I live about 30 miles from where the event is being held so I'm familiar with the terrain. Anyway, the question(s):

1.) What kind of training should I be doing during this last month (and yes, I've checked ultra-cyclings website but I'm obviously way behind schedule there).

2.) Any other tips for doing these sorts of events?

Thanks
JS

and chafing, kill more endurance rides than fitness. Too Tall has it right.

The only other thing I would add is pace. The less training you have, the more controlled the pace should be......and (assuming proper hydration, nutrition and nether region treatment) the more likely you can ride longer.

Good luck.

Len

[Orin]

I signed up to do a 24 hour challenge on June 18/19 ("National 24 Hr challenge in Grand Rapids, MI) a while back full of good intentions. The problem is that they've remained just that and I haven't gotten the training in I've wanted to. To date, I only have about 1100 miles on (outside) and my longest ride is @ 80 miles (I'm planning a century this weekend) :crap: So now, my current plan is to do the event anyway and just shoot for 200-250 miles (this is my first such event, so that would still be a PR) The good thing is that I live about 30 miles from where the event is being held so I'm familiar with the terrain. Anyway, the question(s):

1.) What kind of training should I be doing during this last month (and yes, I've checked ultra-cyclings website but I'm obviously way behind schedule there).

2.) Any other tips for doing these sorts of events?

Thanks
JS

Well, I just finished a 24 hour event - the Fleche Pacifique put on by the BC Randonneurs.

Results are here. (http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/fleche/05_results-details.html)

We did about 320 miles in 22 hours, 52 minutes total. Just over 18 hours riding time. My report. (http://www.drizzle.com/~orin/fleche05.txt)

I've done a couple of close to minimum distance fleches (360km or 225 miles) and the bigest problem has been killing time. A ride time of about 15 hours leaves 9 hours to kill... and the rules make you spread the ride over the 24 hours. Hence our somewhat ambitious plan of 510 km this year. We actually did a few km more due to taking a safer road at one point and a navigational snafu.

So, my rules for a 24 event.

1. Don't go anaerobic. This means you are going to to be going up the hills in the granny gears... I mean it! Use the "Constant effort, not constant speed" mantra. However tempting it is to power over rolling hills, don't!

2. Go slow enough to eat and digest normal food. (We failed at this one for a while.)

3. Go slower. You're still going too fast. See rule 1.

There is a quote in the book, "The Complete Book of Long Distance Cycling" that says "after 200 miles, nothing changes". It's very true. If you are riding well at 200 miles, you've paced yourself well and should continue riding well. If you are dying, it's unlikely you'll revive... So, ride at a pace that will get you to 200 miles comfortably and you should go well beyond.

As for the training schedules both in the above book and others I've seen, I find them unrealistic. There is no need for a six day a week training schedule. I do three rides a week, 30 to 40 miles Tuesday and Thursday night and a longer ride at weekend. The longer ride is currently running 70 to 80 miles. I then interspersed the Seattle Randonneurs' brevet series and did their 200 and 300k brevets. I skipped the 400k as it was a week before the fleche.

So, work on pacing on this up-coming century. Don't push. Ignore the fast pace-lines. Take short breaks - if you feel you need long breaks, you're going too fast...

Orin.

[wanderingwheel]

I do a ton of ultra rides, double centuries and brevets mostly. I'm getting pretty good at them, but my biggest challenge still is nutrition. If you can, do a long ride or two and test out your nutrition strategy. Sustained Energy works for nearly everybody else, but if I take enough to prevent bonking (275 cal/hr), I feel sick and bloated to the point that I can't ride in the drops. Now I'm using Cytomax/Revenge and Luna Bars/Hammer Gel. Finally, I have fuil power for all 200 miles.

It's important to find something that works for you. On your long training rides, you may find that you need to go significantly farther than 100 miles in order to test your plan. I can do a fast century on half a Luna Bar, so I need to go 150 miles before I can tell if my new nutrition plan is working.

Good Luck
Sean

[Too Tall]

Orin, Kudos on the miles / time....that is quite an accomplishment. Did you read the front cover of that book (wink wink). Look at who's quoted. I "translated" that book into english, so to speak, for the author and pal-o-mine.
WW - I'm thinking you needed more electrolytes hrly. Did you ever experiment with that or consider changing brands of electrolyte replacement eg. "Succeed" or H.E.E.D.?

[scrooge]

I
So, my rules for a 24 event.

1. Don't go anaerobic. This means you are going to to be going up the hills in the granny gears... I mean it! Use the "Constant effort, not constant speed" mantra. However tempting it is to power over rolling hills, don't!


That leads me to another question--I've been wondering if I should switch to a compact crank for this event--particularly for the latter part of the ride when I assume that I won't be using my 53 x 12 much. I've currenlty been using a 52/42 12x25 and haven't had any problems (I haven't needed the 23/25 yet) and my new bike will have a 53/39 with a 12 x27 in the back (bail out gear!) with 10 speed. What do you think?

[Orin]

That leads me to another question--I've been wondering if I should switch to a compact crank for this event--particularly for the latter part of the ride when I assume that I won't be using my 53 x 12 much. I've currenlty been using a 52/42 12x25 and haven't had any problems (I haven't needed the 23/25 yet) and my new bike will have a 53/39 with a 12 x27 in the back (bail out gear!) with 10 speed. What do you think?

I'm using an FSA 50x34 compact crank and 13-26 Campy 10 speed. Pounding an XX-12 isn't going to do much other than wear out your legs faster on the long distance stuff. You might was well tuck and coast on the downhills. The compact allows you to chose closer spaced cogs at the rear and still have the low bailout gear.

Orin.

[Too Tall]

Ain't broke, why fix it?

[wanderingwheel]

Scrooge, as much as I like compacts, I think the 53/39 and 12-27 will serve you fine. Depending on your speed and cadence, you may find that you are constantly cross chaining in the flats. I use a 50/36 and I've found that 22mph is a problem area. If the course is mostly flat, I'd stay with the 53/39. I'm going to disagree with Orin on descents, I need to keep my legs moving or they will be dead at the bottom of the hill, and I've found the 50-12 is a little too easy on some descents.

Too Tall, thanks for the suggestion, I'm always looking for good advice on nutrition. However, I think my problem is much more basic than electrolytes -- calories. First I need remember to get enough calories down, and then I need to hope that they stay down. I have tried HEED and it seemed fine, but I haven't yet used it on a long ride. I have also tried Extran, but again not long enough to truly test it. There's a sample of Accelerade sitting on the counter, but it's only 100 calories and the protein content scares me. I've got this strange theory that it's the protien in Sustained Energy that was bugging me.

Sean

[Too Tall]

Sean, everyone is different and you are the smart one to work hard and find something that works. A particular soy protein brand/source could be an issue however protein itself is likely not the problem. I take it you weight in the 'hood of 190? 275 cals/hr. with 22'ish oz of fluid with adequate electrolytes is a good call for starters. Most common mistake is trying to replace the calories expended during exercise and your body protests. Good science has the replenishment rate at around 300cal./hr. Keep good notes on what's working and you'll see a pattern.

[scrooge]

So, work on pacing on this up-coming century. Don't push. Ignore the fast pace-lines. Take short breaks - if you feel you need long breaks, you're going too fast...

Orin.

Hmm. This seems a little counter-intuitive to me. My thought was that I would do the century at a moderate pace (I'm riding by myself)--not killing myself but perhaps averaging a couple mph faster than what I plan to ride at the event so that the event feels slow/easy. At least that's the impression I got from the ultra-cycling website.

[Orin]

Hmm. This seems a little counter-intuitive to me. My thought was that I would do the century at a moderate pace (I'm riding by myself)--not killing myself but perhaps averaging a couple mph faster than what I plan to ride at the event so that the event feels slow/easy. At least that's the impression I got from the ultra-cycling website.

Yes but... that wouldn't give you any information about how you'd be feeling after 100 miles at event pace, nor any practice at maintaining the slower pace, nor any information about how you stomach is handling food after 100 miles at event pace... If you feel bloated and horrible after 100 miles at a faster pace, what does that mean about a slower pace? Probably nothing. It's how I'll feel if I eat much of anything near the end of a 5:45 century... though I get better if I slow down.

Realisticly though, it probably won't matter what speed you ride the century. Note that 15 hours on the road at 15 mph is 225 miles leaving another 9 hours of the 24 to lounge around...

BTW, I had done about 1900 miles this year before the 320 mile fleche last weekend, so with another few weeks you should be fine.

Orin.

[Kevan]

you're going to use, try them out fully well before hand to make sure you won't be running a different type of marathon. IF.....you know what I mean.

[Too Tall]

I just heard about this race. Apparently it is a new Ultra and in my neck of the woods. I've asked about inclusion of a tandem category. If you know anyone who might be interested esp. tandem pls. pass this on....could be fun ?!

Mike Ridgeway
Director- Dream Ride 2005
717-397-2503
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