If "it" happens, will you still wear your yellow band?

[Elefantino]

Interesting (at least I think) conversation we at work today.

If the alleged doping becomes actual doping, or if there is a conviction, or admission, or anything that changes the story from "he never did" to "he did," would you take the band off your wrist?

A couple of votes yes, but mostly no.

Me? I'll keep wearing it. YMMV

[Fixed]

bro imho he has done way more good in the world than harm
cheers

[PaMtbRider]

I think the yellow wrist band has had it's 15 minutes of fame. Rarely do I see anyone wearing one anymore.

[BengeBoy]

I have one of these instead:

http://bikepure.org/what-is-bike-pure/get-the-wirstband/

[false_Aest]

I'm only gonna wear one IF ???? hits the fan.


It's a good reminder that we're all mortal, flawed and subject to the expectations of the ridiculous masses that hide behind computers and post on forums.

[KeithS]

He spoke at our sales meeting a couple of years ago. His story is spellbinding and as scary as can be, it changed my opinion. I just clipped this from the Livestrong web site.

"Since our inception, we have raised $325 million dollars for the fight against cancer, and 81 percent of those funds have gone directly to support our programs and services for survivors."

That is just a lot of money for a very worthy cause. Regardless of what you think of the man he has done good work.

[Frankwurst]

bro imho he has done way more good in the world than harm
cheers

This is true. :beer:

[onekgguy]

He spoke at our sales meeting a couple of years ago. His story is spellbinding and as scary as can be, it changed my opinion. I just clipped this from the Livestrong web site.

"Since our inception, we have raised $325 million dollars for the fight against cancer, and 81 percent of those funds have gone directly to support our programs and services for survivors."

That is just a lot of money for a very worthy cause. Regardless of what you think of the man he has done good work.

I'd support his cause even if he came out and admitted doping. 81% seems like a respectable number.

Kevin g

[thegunner]

bro imho he has done way more good in the world than harm
cheers

++ to this. maybe he's guilty of doping, but the amount of money and publicity he's raised towards cancer research is downright staggering.

[rounder]

If it happens, and hope it doesn't, i will keep my yellow bands (don't wear them anymore) and will support LAF. My father died at 65 from cancer and was in, otherwise, very good shape. I don't know anyone who has done more for the cause than Lance. Plus, the guy could ride bikes.

[Dekonick]

Cancer sucks. I would still wear one, but don't. Who in the pro peleton doesn't dope? Not that its o.k.

[BengeBoy]

...the ridiculous masses that hide behind computers and post on forums.

Wondering if this referred to me since my post was above yours.

My post was an honest response to the question posed.

After reading a ton about doping in sports and LA in particular over the past two years, I made a donation to the Bike Pure foundation (for which I did get a lovely blue wrist band). I also made a couple of donations to Livestrong on behalf of friends who were doing specific Livestrong rides.

But, no, I would never wear a yellow band; I once believed that Lance could be clean but now feel as if I was duped.

[Bob Loblaw]

++ to this. maybe he's guilty of doping, but the amount of money and publicity he's raised towards cancer research is downright staggering.

+1

Not to mention the example of surviving the treatments and thriving post-cancer, and all the people he's visited personally and given gits to. Can't measure the benefit of that.

BL

[dancinkozmo]

...yes if the steelers the win the superbowl I will wear my yellow

[StellaBlue]

bro imho he has done way more good in the world than harm
cheers

Despite the redundant IMHO, bro, and Cheers, this is spot on..

[Dekonick]

I don't like the man - but I do respect what he has achieved for the cancer world.

[salem]

Not to say that Armstrong's foundation is doing a bad thing, but if you want to contribute to the fight against cancer, there are other organizations where you money will do more.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6570

[FlashUNC]

Never have worn one. And while I won't begrudge what he's done to fight cancer, I don't see how his credibility isn't completely shot by that revelation? The foundation is built upon this miraculous recovery and the Tour wins. Tough to see how any doping revelations keep the foundation unscathed.

[Louis]

I think the more interesting is question is whether the day will come when doping and the chase after dopers does not thoroughly permeate, distort or spoil (chose whatever modifier you like) the pro sport as it does today.

Are we stuck with the status quo forever, or can things change, and if they do (assuming for the better), what will have to happen for that to occur?

I'd rather look to the future and hope for the best, but I'm not terribly optimistic.

Louis

[StellaBlue]

I can care less about doping.. I'd rather watch Marco and Lance doped to gills going at it.. But that's just me....

[bicycletricycle]

I can care less about doping.. I'd rather watch Marco and Lance doped to gills going at it.. But that's just me....

+1

[Dave B]

My father-in-law just beat cancer and when he got his clean bill of health he gave everyone in the family one. That was a few months ago and we all put them on. I haven't taken mine off yet and everyone else has. Everytime I see him he notices it and you can see the smile it gives him. Having him in my life means a hell of a lot.

Lance lost his luster for me years ago and i was into him big time. I think he is a heck of a rider and an incredibly strong man for beating the cancer he had and having to live with this type of media/life exposure.

Did he ask for it, sure you could argue that, but in my generation he was the biggest cyclist to come along. I respect that and how he changed cycling. Not all for the better, but he made an impact. drugs or not I could care less. he wasn't the first person to do them and wont be the last...in any sport.

My father-in-law doesn't care if he did drugs, but he supports his cancer foundation. How can you argue against the man for livestrong?

YMMV

[Climb01742]

for me, it's complicated. seems like there are three issues:

1. he's raised a lot of money to help fight cancer. which is, of course, good.

2. he probably doped, which it seems almost every rider at the time did. i'm conflicted about the ethics of this, but to be competitive, it appeared to be a necessity.

3. if he did dope, his longstanding and at times nasty and name-calling defense of his innocence is what i'd find most damaging about his character.

it's complicated and clearly a personal choice of how one processes all this. i stopped wearing the yellow band a while ago. as others have said, there are other ways to support the fight against cancer.

we're all flawed and we've all done ***** we wished we hadn't. it's the not copping to it that's most disappointing, IMO.

[sjbraun]

I've had leukemia for almost 5 years. I finished treatment 2 1/2 years ago. My cancer is treatable, but not curable. I wear a yellow band on my right wrist.
It took me a while to wear a Livestrong band wristband. just took some time for me to accept that I have cancer.
Now, my little yellow band serves as a reminder that I choose to LIVE with cancer, not be a it's victim.

So yeah, I'll keep wearing my Livestrong wristband. For me, it's a symbol of hope, not a Lance thing.

Steve

[Charles M]

3. if he did dope, his longstanding and at times nasty and name-calling defense of his innocence is what i'd find most damaging about his character.
.

Isn't "nasty defense" an oxymoron?


As a quasi-journalist, I've never liked are the people in the media and in the sport double dipping on the benefit from Lance... sell lots of papers and magazines covering his story... sell lots of magazines making accusations and sensationalizing things. The sport and governing body's cash flow grew exponentially, as did the sales dollars in every category of equipment and in better acceptance for us on the road.

The latest Sports Illustrated story is a classic example. They bill themselves as presenting new and damning info, but then go about rehashing all the old stuff... After having the guy on the cover how many times?



I think Lance doped. After Puerto etc we know that virtually all of his main competitors did too (and they were less accomplished as dopers too). That said, and knowing some of the old guard in cycling, I dont think Lances come back and accomplishments are any less miraculous.


I dont really care about the outcome. Lance made his bed and Cancer research has benefited.

I would just like the broken record accusations and the hypocrisy in the media and in forums to stop... I want the sport to get past this and Puerto and move on.

[flickwet]

I've had leukemia for almost 5 years. I finished treatment 2 1/2 years ago. My cancer is treatable, but not curable. I wear a yellow band on my right wrist.
It took me a while to wear a Livestrong band wristband. just took some time for me to accept that I have cancer.
Now, my little yellow band serves as a reminder that I choose to LIVE with cancer, not be a it's victim.

So yeah, I'll keep wearing my Livestrong wristband. For me, it's a symbol of hope, not a Lance thing.

Steve
and no more enlightening response could be imagined

[rwsaunders]

Here's a link to a good article which was published in Fast Company a few months ago. Beyond the allegations and whatever lies ahead, the LAF has been planning for life without LA.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/150/can-livestrong-survive-lance.html

[salem]

I can care less about doping.. I'd rather watch Marco and Lance doped to gills going at it.. But that's just me....

Not to attack StellaBlue, but this opinion rankles me. As a former mediocre pro mountain bike racer, no amount of drugs would have turned me into a champion, but why should someone who does has the potential to perform have to decide whether or not to risk their long term health just to level the playing field? To say riders should be drugged to make the sport more exciting seems, to me, a similar disrespect to the athletes' well being as was shown in Roman times to gladiators: everything for the ruling elite spectators. Trust me, they are doing plenty of personal, physical damage for their compensation even without drugs.

Also, to further play devil's advocate, I'd say the Tour de France in the last, presumably cleaner, years has been a more interesting and dynamic race. Without drugs, the peloton as a whole is not as strong and fast, so they are less able to control the race. Breaks seem to have a better chance and the possibility of a top rider having a bad day of recovery and shuffling the leader board increases. Human beings, for their weaknesses, are more interesting to watch than robots.

Again, this was not meant to attack anyone's opinion, but just to give an impression of how drugs harm the sport from a slightly inside perspective. I give any necessary apologies in advance.

[norcalbiker]

I have one of these instead:

http://bikepure.org/what-is-bike-pure/get-the-wirstband/

Landis wear this on both of his wrist. :crap:

[norcalbiker]

bro imho he has done way more good in the world than harm
cheers

+1

[norcalbiker]

I've had leukemia for almost 5 years. I finished treatment 2 1/2 years ago. My cancer is treatable, but not curable. I wear a yellow band on my right wrist.
It took me a while to wear a Livestrong band wristband. just took some time for me to accept that I have cancer.
Now, my little yellow band serves as a reminder that I choose to LIVE with cancer, not be a it's victim.

So yeah, I'll keep wearing my Livestrong wristband. For me, it's a symbol of hope, not a Lance thing.

Steve

:hello: :beer:

[T-Crush]

First, I have a horse in this race in the sense that cancer runs very strong on my wife's side of the family, so in addition to the undeniable "goodness" of finding a cure for cancer, I equate the fight against cancer as a fight to prolong the life of people very dear to me.

The fact that he survived cancer and recovered to compete and win at the highest levels of the sport, coupled with using that success to elevate cancer research is enough for me to support him on the cancer research front.

Winning clean or doped is a separate issue for me. If everyone was doping, and he got good enough post cancer to beat everyone clean, then he's a cycling god. If he simply got good enough to beat every other doped rider while being similarly 'enhanced,' then it still supports the assertion that he recovered from cancer to become the best rider of his era. But if Lance doped, he's a cheater. If he doped, and then told the multitude of lies denying it, that would make me re-evaluate his athletic accomplishments and value as a role model. It does not change my view on what he did for cancer research or the value of that little yellow band.

I still wear my yellow band, and I put them on my bikes too (around the seatpost). Every now and then someone will ask why I still wear one, to which I'm happy to share my personal motivations.


Just my $.02

[Aaron O]

bro imho he has done way more good in the world than harm
cheers

That's exactly how I see it...and the people he out performed were also using illegal substances. Eddy Merckx tested three times for illegal substances. I think the competitive nature of pro sports is such that any time there is a way to get a leg up on your competitor, many will do it. In fact you almost have to...if your competition is cheating, you have to cheat to keep up. Take a look at the NFL...where they get bigger and faster every year. I'd be shocked if less than 90% of NFL players are using banned substances.

Lance is, to me, still an inspiration...drugs or no drugs.

[Waldo]

+1

Not to mention the example of surviving the treatments and thriving post-cancer, and all the people he's visited personally and given gits to. Can't measure the benefit of that.

BL

If the allegations are true, some of you are saying it's OK to use fraudulent means to gain personal publicity on which LA bases his fundraising efforts. Really? Ends justify the means? What about the fact that he personally enriched himself through fraudulent means? Is that part OK? What about the part that you and I and every other American taxpayer paid for his fraud when he was on USPS? Is that OK?

[fiamme red]

If the allegations are true, some of you are saying it's OK to use fraudulent means to gain personal publicity on which LA bases his fundraising efforts. Really? Ends justify the means? What about the fact that he personally enriched himself through fraudulent means? Is that part OK?"This is my body, and I can do whatever I want to it. I can push it. Study it. Tweak it. Listen to it. Everybody wants to know what I'm on. What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my a$$ six hours a day. What are you on?" :rolleyes:

[JMerring]

What about the fact that he personally enriched himself through fraudulent means? Is that part OK?

that's the part that really gets to me and the fact that no one ever points it out. maybe i'm just a douche - or the only douche willing to say it - but he's an arrogant, lying, cheating pos who has made a s**t-ton of money by milking his situation and talents for all they're worth. the mark of real goodness is doing something for its own sake and not when you reap a giant windfall. we're not exactly singing the praises of bernie madoff's philanthropic endeavors in spite of all the good they may have done, now are we?

"this is my body, and i can do whatever i want to it." you sure did lance - now f*****g own up to it.


:crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap:

[Waldo]

"This is my body, and I can do whatever I want to it. I can push it. Study it. Tweak it. Listen to it. Everybody wants to know what I'm on. What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my a$$ six hours a day. What are you on?" :rolleyes:

I am on my desk chair at my office 10 hours a day, busting my a$$, making a living for my family. My parents didn't endow me with an 80+ VO2 max. What are you on? :cool:

[fiamme red]

I am on my desk chair at my office 10 hours a day, busting my a$$, making a living for my family. My parents didn't endow me with an 80+ VO2 max. What are you on? :cool:I didn't make myself clear. I was agreeing with you that LANCE would never have been enriched by all those multi-million dollar sponsorships if his doping activities had been made known. On the other hand, a lot less money would have been raised for cancer research.

[MarleyMon]

Those damn things are yellow for a reason: they are symbols of his TdF wins.
If you want to give money to support his foundation, its a good cause.
The bracelets, to me, are a show of support for the man himself and I took mine off years ago.

[Lifelover]

If the allegations are true, some of you are saying it's OK to use fraudulent means to gain personal publicity on which LA bases his fundraising efforts. Really? Ends justify the means? What about the fact that he personally enriched himself through fraudulent means? Is that part OK? What about the part that you and I and every other American taxpayer paid for his fraud when he was on USPS? Is that OK?

The USPS does not operate off of tax dollars. It generates it's own income. Not a Penny of your tax dollars went LA.

And yes, I'm OK with LA or other athletes using PEDS. I wish they could do it openly and under the supervision of a doctor.

They are many, many, many more important things in the world.

Assuming LA did dope, I believe that he and all the other cyclist took a vow of silence. I admire those that are willing to risk their own future on up holding that vow.

[Lifelover]

that's the part that really gets to me and the fact that no one ever points it out. maybe i'm just a douche - or the only douche willing to say it - but he's an arrogant, lying, cheating pos who has made a s**t-ton of money by milking his situation and talents for all they're worth. the mark of real goodness is doing something for its own sake and not when you reap a giant windfall. we're not exactly singing the praises of bernie madoff's philanthropic endeavors in spite of all the good they may have done, now are we?

"this is my body, and i can do whatever i want to it." you sure did lance - now f*****g own up to it.


:crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap:

Your not the only douche. There is always Lemond and Landis. :banana:

[Aaron O]

that's the part that really gets to me and the fact that no one ever points it out. maybe i'm just a douche - or the only douche willing to say it - but he's an arrogant, lying, cheating pos who has made a s**t-ton of money by milking his situation and talents for all they're worth. the mark of real goodness is doing something for its own sake and not when you reap a giant windfall. we're not exactly singing the praises of bernie madoff's philanthropic endeavors in spite of all the good they may have done, now are we?

"this is my body, and i can do whatever i want to it." you sure did lance - now f*****g own up to it.


:crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap:

Yes...I can definitely see an analogy between Lance Armstrong riding a bicycle and winning races while using substances that affect only him, and which all of his competitors used, while using his fame to contribute to a worthy cause...and Bernie Madoff, who swindled people, including charities, out of millions while undermining faith in the markets during a depression.

I wasn't able to vote in this poll because there wasn't an option for:

I don't care if Lance Armstrong used drugs while beating other cyclists who used drugs.

[Waldo]

And yes, I'm OK with LA or other athletes using PEDS. I wish they could do it openly and under the supervision of a doctor.

They are many, many, many more important things in the world.

Assuming LA did dope, I believe that he and all the other cyclist took a vow of silence. I admire those that are willing to risk their own future on up holding that vow.

You have an interesting set of values, but as with opinions and certain body parts, you're entitled to have one...........

[JMerring]

Your not the only douche. There is always Lemond and Landis. :banana:

i believe it's 'you're'. cheers.

[michael white]

that's the part that really gets to me and the fact that no one ever points it out. maybe i'm just a douche - or the only douche willing to say it - but he's an arrogant, lying, cheating pos who has made a s**t-ton of money by milking his situation and talents for all they're worth. the mark of real goodness is doing something for its own sake and not when you reap a giant windfall. we're not exactly singing the praises of bernie madoff's philanthropic endeavors in spite of all the good they may have done, now are we?

"this is my body, and i can do whatever i want to it." you sure did lance - now f*****g own up to it.


:crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap:

I think the mark of goodness is whether or not you help others. I am all for anyone who uses whatever resources they have to make someone else's life better. I don't care if they do it in the federal pen. It has nothing to do with assessing somebody's character on the internet, what windfalls anyone has reaped or anything else.

[Fixed]

that's the part that really gets to me and the fact that no one ever points it out. maybe i'm just a douche - or the only douche willing to say it - but he's an arrogant, lying, cheating pos who has made a s**t-ton of money by milking his situation and talents for all they're worth. the mark of real goodness is doing something for its own sake and not when you reap a giant windfall. we're not exactly singing the praises of bernie madoff's philanthropic endeavors in spite of all the good they may have done, now are we?

"this is my body, and i can do whatever i want to it." you sure did lance - now f*****g own up to it.


:crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap:
enough about our congress
imho

[TAW]

There are scores of people who have no notoriety, hard working people who would never think of cheating their company, who wouldn't trade integrity for fame even if every one else was, and who give a large percentage of their non-expendable income to great causes. These are the people who ought to be applauded.

[Hawker]

I used to be a big fan and supporter. I applaud every good thing Lance and the foundation is doing and has done. I have determined in my own mind that he has "had help". For that reason I stopped wearing the band...but I sad about that.

[1centaur]

A lot of people cheat to get stuff and never do good. I do not doubt his sincerity in his charity, or doubt the value of what he has achieved for the cause. He has conflicting impulses, cycling has conflicting qualities, it would be great if human nature were purer, but it's not. Lance the cyclist was the original impetus but the imperfection of Lance and life and cancer and our collective celebration and defiance in the face of all that is why I wear the band.

[Elefantino]

First, I have a horse in this race in the sense that cancer runs very strong on my wife's side of the family, so in addition to the undeniable "goodness" of finding a cure for cancer, I equate the fight against cancer as a fight to prolong the life of people very dear to me.
+1.

Good to see you posting again.

And FYI, the Concours— having gone through several Campy groups and wheelsets — is still going strong!

[drewski]

Despite the redundant IMHO, bro, and Cheers, this is spot on..


When a butterfly flutters its wings, the breeze has the potential to be felt
all over the world.

[indyrider]

There are scores of people who have no notoriety, hard working people who would never think of cheating their company, who wouldn't trade integrity for fame even if every one else was, and who give a large percentage of their non-expendable income to great causes. These are the people who ought to be applauded.

Amen Brother :beer:

[steampunk]

the cancer thing is bigger than one man or his foundation. there are a lot of good people who work at the foundation, lots of good volunteers at the events, i think they'd keep going on because to them the cause is bigger than him or even the entire livestrong machine. at the extreme end, i can't deny there are the hardcore pockets of "true believers" of the "lance can do no wrong" creed in working there. kinda freaky really - like cult members.

now i do enjoy volunteering at the livestrong events, not just because of my connection to cancer (dad, 2x survivor), but the volunteer gigs i find are up my alley, with a great team the last couple of years, and helping people directly. it's fun, i'll keep doing that, no question.

as a fundraiser, i honestly don't get a good feel for where the LAF's money goes. lots of glitz and overhead. they keep touting it as a "fight" but what are the actual results? the cynic in me says that's why he's going big in Australia - tapping a new market and new pockets. ever since my dad got treated at MDAnderson i just choose to direct my donations for the cancer cause directly to that institution.

[Waldo]

He spoke at our sales meeting a couple of years ago. His story is spellbinding and as scary as can be, it changed my opinion. I just clipped this from the Livestrong web site.

"Since our inception, we have raised $325 million dollars for the fight against cancer, and 81 percent of those funds have gone directly to support our programs and services for survivors."

That is just a lot of money for a very worthy cause. Regardless of what you think of the man he has done good work.

Eighty-one percent raised going to anti-cancer fight is highly laudable. Remaining 19 percent of the $325,000,000 LAF raised is $61,750,000. That's a crapload of money to "run" the foundation.

[witcombusa]

Assuming LA did dope, I believe that he and all the other cyclist took a vow of silence. I admire those that are willing to risk their own future on up holding that vow.


Now there is a full load of crap!

Honor in thieves?