bike weight vs. size

[Ken Robb]

I am amused that we often have reference to bike weight without stating the size of the frame. Aren't such comments largely :) meaningless?

[false_Aest]

It's true that lemur and lemming both start with the same 3 letters but they are different animals.

[jlwdm]

Not largely meaningless - but not exactly the same. The bulk of the components don't change depending on the size. My smallest frame is a 61cm after 4 degrees of slope.

Maybe the question is why we post bike weights - probably because it is measurable. Ride quality is not measurable. Also why do bikes often have weights listed without pedals? Don't you need pedals.

UCI rules have the same weight minimum for all frames- could be 52cm or 62cm. Not totally fair.

Jeff

[fourflys]

but, really how much difference can there be between a 50cm frame and a 62cm frame? I'm guessing not that much...

[Frankwurst]

I am amused that we often have reference to bike weight without stating the size of the frame. Aren't such comments largely :) meaningless?

They are to me but you can look at my bikes and figure out that bike weight is one of the least of my concerns. :beer:

[Pete Serotta]

But will also depend on size of frame, type of material used, and also the paint that some put on frames. a unpainted ti is lighter than a painted...


Going up the weight ladder let me suggest the components, the cassette size, the "sack" under the seat that some (me to) use. and then bars/stems


At the top percentage is the weight of the bike rider. If a bike rider weighs 170 lbs and the bike weighs 17 lbs,,,, Changing one of two pounds in frame weight is questionable. the wheels can make some differnece.


Condition, fit, and smile on your face are the most meaningful for performance.


just my opinion, PETE

[oldpotatoe]

They are to me but you can look at my bikes and figure out that bike weight is one of the least of my concerns. :beer:

Only 2 things you can measure in a bike shop...weight and price.

Unfortunately it is 'assumed' that if it's light and expensive, it must be good.

[rnhood]

I am amused that we often have reference to bike weight without stating the size of the frame. Aren't such comments largely :) meaningless?

Probably not so much with carbon, as the weight change between sizes of the same model is very small. Steel of course is different. Nevertheless, the strength difference between two riders of the same weight will way overshadow the difference in frame weight - steel, carbon, or air if one was made of air.

[Bob Loblaw]

Only 2 things you can measure in a bike shop...weight and price.

Unfortunately it is 'assumed' that if it's light and expensive, it must be good.

This assumption is the most frustrating thing in dealing with people and bikes.

"What do you mean a $6k bike isn't right for me? I ride 6 miles on the old railbed almost every Sunday!"

BL

[rounder]

I am amused that we often have reference to bike weight without stating the size of the frame. Aren't such comments largely :) meaningless?

I am interested. Can small differences really make that much of a difference in weight, and what about handling. I recently bought a lugged steel bike at 57 cm that weighed about 19 1/2 lbs. I have another steel bike about the same size, but with a carbon fork, but is sloped and has no lugs, which is about two lbs less. I have another steel bike that is a 58 cm with lugs and steel fork that weighs about 1 lb more than the first bike. They are all road bikes and have comparable components and they all feel great when riding. No one seems to care that much about their own personal weight in these discussions.

And also,if it were a car, would these relative differences have any effect on speed and handling.

[fogrider]

weight makes a difference if you intend on riding it hard. if you ride at a max effort of less than 80%, weight will make little to no difference. if one is on a long hard ride (hilly) and you're riding with others with 16 pound bikes, will you want a 20 pound bike on the last climb? I love steel bikes and ride mine regularly for training.

so if these "small" changes are made on a car, would it make a difference? well, how much weight on a car would equal say 4 pounds on a bike? say 4 pounds is 20% of 20 pounds so for a 3,000 pound car, that would be 600 pounds. or 3 big guys. I think 600 pounds would be noticed.

[learlove]

Aren't such comments largely :) meaningless?

isn't any claim/subject that has to do with weight (wrt bikes) meaningless?


Back in my racing day I had 3 main bikes. First was a Cannondale 3.0 decked out with Dura Ace and 28 spoke tubulars. The second was a lugged steel TK track bike with DA 10 pitch and 32 spoke tubulars. The 3rd bike was an old lugged steel Fuji sport/touring bike I used as a rain ride and cyclocross bike. It had 36 spoke wheels and sugino/suntour parts.

I was just as fast on either of the three bikes when I was in "top" (for a cat 3 racer) shape or any other shape for that matter.

[FlashUNC]

The bike makes up such a small percentage of the overall weight of the "system" so to speak (rider, bike, water, tools etc), with the rider making up such a vast majority of it, that I think folks get too bogged down in what their bike weighs.

You're better off losing 5 lbs off the gut than the same weight off the bike. Let's face it, for 99% of us, the limiting factor will always be ourselves, not the bike.

[1centaur]

The argument that bike weight is a small % of total weight is only relevant in the context of theoretical speed, which is what is irrelevant to me. What I care about is can I FEEL it? Can I feel it being a bit easier/harder on a given hill on a given stage of a usual ride, which makes me a bit faster which makes me feel a bit stronger vs. weaker and therefore makes me push a bit harder for the next 30 seconds? Does it feel more like effort or wow? I might be able to generate the same speed either way, but how a bike feels while I'm doing it is a major aspect of the whole experience to me.

From my experience, I can start feeling weight differences in about the pound and a half range, and the difference between my 14 lb bike and my 17.5 lb bike feels huge from the moment I pick it up through the vast majority of my typical 50 mile rolling hills ride. I think most rec riders buy light bikes so they can feel stronger sometimes.

BTW, yes, as a larger frame rider I was always bugged by bike weights given without size.

[oldpotatoe]

weight makes a difference if you intend on riding it hard. if you ride at a max effort of less than 80%, weight will make little to no difference. if one is on a long hard ride (hilly) and you're riding with others with 16 pound bikes, will you want a 20 pound bike on the last climb? I love steel bikes and ride mine regularly for training.

so if these "small" changes are made on a car, would it make a difference? well, how much weight on a car would equal say 4 pounds on a bike? say 4 pounds is 20% of 20 pounds so for a 3,000 pound car, that would be 600 pounds. or 3 big guys. I think 600 pounds would be noticed.

4 pounds isn't 20%, it depends on the weight of the rider also. The energy it takes to accelerate a bicycle is the mass of the bike and the rider. About 2% so for a car it's 60 pounds, the difference between a full tank and an almost empty one.

Weight of the bicycle is vastly overplayed. there are other variables that are far more important....like fit and fitness and fat on the rider and riding and racing smart and ................................etc.

[oldpotatoe]

isn't any claim/subject that has to do with weight (wrt bikes) meaningless?


Back in my racing day I had 3 main bikes. First was a Cannondale 3.0 decked out with Dura Ace and 28 spoke tubulars. The second was a lugged steel TK track bike with DA 10 pitch and 32 spoke tubulars. The 3rd bike was an old lugged steel Fuji sport/touring bike I used as a rain ride and cyclocross bike. It had 36 spoke wheels and sugino/suntour parts.

I was just as fast on either of the three bikes when I was in "top" (for a cat 3 racer) shape or any other shape for that matter.

bing, bing, bing, we have a winner!!

[Ken Robb]

Well we got an understandable amount of drift on this thread. I never asked if weight matters. I weigh 200 lbs and only one of my bikes could possibly weigh less than 20 lbs. It's the one WITHOUT a Brooks.

I was just musing on the comments and comparisons of bike weight along the lines of "my new custom Fuggetaboutit" weighs 16 lbs" doesn't mean much without saying what size it is. My bikes are all 60-63cm so I'm never going to impressing anyone with my bikes light weight. :beer:

[RPS]

Well we got an understandable amount of drift on this thread. I never asked if weight matters. I weigh 200 lbs and only one of my bikes could possibly weigh less than 20 lbs. It's the one WITHOUT a Brooks.

I was just musing on the comments and comparisons of bike weight along the lines of "my new custom Fuggetaboutit" weighs 16 lbs" doesn't mean much without saying what size it is. My bikes are all 60-63cm so I'm never going to impressing anyone with my bikes light weight. :beer:
Your bike's weight should reflect your size more than the bike's size IMHO. A larger frame needs very little weight added to make the main triangle larger -- a few ounces at most. However, when the bike needs to handle a 200 pound rider instead of a 120 pound rider then a lot of bike stuff should be heavier to make it safe and stiff enough to handle the "heavier" rider.

I vote more for rider mass than frame size. ;)

[slowandsteady]

Another thing to note is your FORK weight.

I built up a custom IF Steel Crown Jewel last year and went with an IF steel fork to match. Due to the material & length of my head tube (almost 24cm) the fork alone weighs about one pound more than a comparable carbon fork.

At 365mm total length I feel safer on it though and she rides sweet as it was built to match my frame...add my Brooks B-17 and bada-bing! I am over 20lbs on a 60cm frame.

[Ti Designs]

You're better off losing 5 lbs off the gut than the same weight off the bike.

Yeh, but we always take the path of least resistance. It's easy to spend some money and take a little weight off the bike, much harder to take the weight off yourself. My plan for next season it to take 12 pounds off myself and 3 off the bike. The 12 pounds off myself is the tricky part 'cause it can't be at the expense of power, and I'm already at the point where I can't buy a belt in any men's department 'cause they're all too big. My Serotta is 19 pounds, taking 3 pounds off that is cake - maybe that's not the right term to use...

[fiamme red]

Yeh, but we always take the path of least resistance. It's easy to spend some money and take a little weight off the bike, much harder to take the weight off yourself. My plan for next season it to take 12 pounds off myself and 3 off the bike. The 12 pounds off myself is the tricky part 'cause it can't be at the expense of power, and I'm already at the point where I can't buy a belt in any men's department 'cause they're all too big.Just don't end up like this guy. Or if you do, please keep your shirt on. :)

http://www.atwistedspoke.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/post-8954-079485500-1277297243.jpg

[Black Dog]

weight makes a difference if you intend on riding it hard. if you ride at a max effort of less than 80%, weight will make little to no difference. if one is on a long hard ride (hilly) and you're riding with others with 16 pound bikes, will you want a 20 pound bike on the last climb? I love steel bikes and ride mine regularly for training.

so if these "small" changes are made on a car, would it make a difference? well, how much weight on a car would equal say 4 pounds on a bike? say 4 pounds is 20% of 20 pounds so for a 3,000 pound car, that would be 600 pounds. or 3 big guys. I think 600 pounds would be noticed.


Add Bike + Rider. Then talk about a few pounds. The bike is a small part of the bike and rider combo. Everyone forgets the big heavy primate that sits on the bike. A pound + or - makes less than a 1% difference! Physics does not pay any attention to marketing or wishful thinking. All this talk about people noticing a few hundred grams improving their performance is at best placebo and would never, ever stand up to a double blind test. Even on a long mountain climb the time differences are measured in seconds and not minutes.

[fourflys]

bing, bing, bing, we have a winner!!

Peter,
You've handled enough bikes to know... what do you think the weight difference between a 50cm steel bike and 64cm steel bikes is all things equal except the size? I wouldn't think it would be much more than a couple hundred grams and as others have said, I'm carrying much more than that...

[slowandsteady]

...The 12 pounds off myself is the tricky part 'cause it can't be at the expense of power, and I'm already at the point where I can't buy a belt in any men's department 'cause they're all too big.

This is always something that intrigues me It's not just about losing weight for some but losing the proper type of weight while not sacrificing muscle mass, power or stamina

i.e if you were 6' tall and weigh 200lbs and you lost 50lbs in a season im betting your riding would probably suffer so it's not just about losing weight (though admittedly for some it is simply get the weight OFF!) but about keeping it all in balance and proportion.

I look at the picture above and think he is so freaking skinny he must have catabolized muscle to get that thin and thereby also sacrificed some of his riding ability like power or endurance. Granted the pic was probably taken after a long and difficult multi day, multi stage, race in which he went all out and lost major poundage but you get my drift...