mounting tubulars

[PETER REID]

Conti Glue? Vittoria Mastik? Two layers on the rims and 2 on the tires? Have to wait until the next day?

C'mon people thats so archaic. Come up to the 21st century.

3M Fast tack 08031 in yellow. $10 a tube that will go 4-5 tires. A layer on the rim and a layer on the tire, spread it with a piece of cellophane, let dry until it will only fingerprint when you touch it and mount the tire to the rim. Easy, simple, clean, not hard to clean up, and the best part.... It only takes 20 minutes or so and you can ride it the same day

I glued 60 tires last year using this method with no roll off's.
:banana: :hello: :)

cheers,

peter

[A1CKot]

Sounds good to me. I will try it out.

From 3M's site (http://www.shop3m.com/60980027043.html):
"Extremely fast drying, non-staining, amber adhesive for bonding trim fabric, upholstery cloth, floor mats and carpeting to bare metal and KB board. Also useful as a gasket adhesive to hold gaskets in place while assembling parts."

Fabric to metal... sound about right to me.

[11.4]

Except that it's incompatible with some adhesives used in tubular tire manufacturing and leads to unexpected and premature base tape separation. There was actually a 3M notice that circulated specifically warning against using the stuff with tubular tires. It also has some compatibility problems with some of the more common rim cements. This has been discussed at great length in past threads.

[echelon_john]

bad news with conti and challenge base tapes. not sure about others, but i don't think the downside risk is worth it.

mastik one is the most reliable IMO

[Cantdog]

Mastik, except when using conti tires, then conti glue.

[oldpotatoe]

Conti Glue? Vittoria Mastik? Two layers on the rims and 2 on the tires? Have to wait until the next day?

C'mon people thats so archaic. Come up to the 21st century.

3M Fast tack 08031 in yellow. $10 a tube that will go 4-5 tires. A layer on the rim and a layer on the tire, spread it with a piece of cellophane, let dry until it will only fingerprint when you touch it and mount the tire to the rim. Easy, simple, clean, not hard to clean up, and the best part.... It only takes 20 minutes or so and you can ride it the same day

I glued 60 tires last year using this method with no roll off's.
:banana: :hello: :)

cheers,

peter

Yes, yes, 3 layers on new stuff and wait 24 hours to ride.

I guess but I, as a bike shop owner, choose to do it my way. Still takes about 20 minutes.

Solvent or acid brush, bulk can of glue. Thin layer on tire, edge to edge of the base tape, thin layer on rim, repeat-tire-rim, layer on tire...let dry about 10 minutes...layer on rim, mounrt, center the tire. air and let sit. My favorite glue is Panaracer followed by Vittoria. Conti is fine also. 'Right tools for the job'.

Glued on sewups for 25 years, never had one roll...

[shiftyfixedgear]

Fastak is overkill for most tubular gluing unless you absolutely have to have that wheel ready to go ASAP.

For everything else just use the goddamn Mastik or Conti or Pana.
It's freaking contact cement and the added thickness of multiple layers helps to fill irregularities in the rim bed better than Fastak. Do like Old Potater sez WRT layering some and then stick em' on - straighten up the tread, and let em' dry a bit.

Is it really that hard fer' chrissakes ?

Seems like someone claiming they have some "secret" or superior tubular gluing technique is so out the past. That sort of ridiculousness was common thirty five years ago, but it mostly died out in the late 1980's. Guess old habits are hard for some folks to shake.

[11.4]

Mastik, except when using conti tires, then conti glue.

With the newer vulcanized Conti base tapes and the newer glue formulations, this doesn't have to apply any longer.

[saab2000]

With the newer vulcanized Conti base tapes and the newer glue formulations, this doesn't have to apply any longer.

What do you recommend for Continental in that case? I'm liking the Competition Vectrans.

I think I used Continental cement and am sure it's fine but other alternatives are probably good too.

[sean]

I'd rather just glue, but I've had really good luck with Tufo Extreme Tape (orange box).

[gearguywb]

Riding the tufo tape myself. Sure is a lot easier, with less mess, than glue.

[old fat man]

anyone used this, only for road tubulars?

http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/betutala.html

i've always been a mastik one guy but i really only use tubulars for cx. i'd use 'em more for road if a solution like the belgian tape was acceptable.

[rustychain]

many options are available and all have trade offs. I personally own more then one set of wheels so speed in set up is seldom an issue. In fact let me share a tip that will slow you down even more. The reason is that the final result is better IMO and easier.
Two coats of the glue of your choice (frankly all rim cements have worked well for me) on the rim and one on the tire. I let it dry several hours. I then spray the tire with cold water from a misting bottle. This allows me to reposition the tire and get it truly straight. I then use a woodworking band clamp around the tire and clamp it snug. at this point I pump up the tire to full air pressure and let the wheel sit for 48 hours. The resulting bond is better then I get using any other method and has been especially great for cyclocross tires. Stronger then the Belgian method (glue and tape) I'm sure. Never rolled a tire or had any other issues. Even works at low cyclocross pressures in sticky mud!
Tape can have a few issues, on carbon rims it has been reported to pull off carbon when removing the tire and is reported to add rolling resistance.

[oldpotatoe]

Fastak is overkill for most tubular gluing unless you absolutely have to have that wheel ready to go ASAP.

For everything else just use the goddamn Mastik or Conti or Pana.
It's freaking contact cement and the added thickness of multiple layers helps to fill irregularities in the rim bed better than Fastak. Do like Old Potater sez WRT layering some and then stick em' on - straighten up the tread, and let em' dry a bit.

Is it really that hard fer' chrissakes ?

Seems like someone claiming they have some "secret" or superior tubular gluing technique is so out the past. That sort of ridiculousness was common thirty five years ago, but it mostly died out in the late 1980's. Guess old habits are hard for some folks to shake.

Agree along with the "takes 3 days to glue a tubie on" school of thought..

Just isn't that hard. maybe this is a conspiracy by the clincher and tubeless tire makers..to make it seem hard.


To rustychain..yikes!!!

I really don't think it has to be that involved. It's a bike tire afterall.

[oldpotatoe]

What do you recommend for Continental in that case? I'm liking the Competition Vectrans.

I think I used Continental cement and am sure it's fine but other alternatives are probably good too.

I use Pana or Vittoria..Conti has gotten really expensive. Panaracer is my favorite plus get to 'take a trip w/o leaving the farm'.

[Ralph]

I use Pana or Vittoria..Conti has gotten really expensive. Panaracer is my favorite plus get to 'take a trip w/o leaving the farm'.


In Boulder....you would just be joining the crowd. I've almost got high there just strolling down Pearl St and breathing the local air.

[thwart]

Panaracer is my favorite plus get to 'take a trip w/o leaving the farm' Ah, that explains a few of your posts here... ;) :D

[oldpotatoe]

In Boulder....you would just be joining the crowd. I've almost got high there just strolling down Pearl St and breathing the local air.


Rocky Mountain High

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwARpaKHx_w

Myself, I use medical alcohol...

[rustychain]

Oldpotatoe<
It sounds more of a pain then it is in practice. The water makes mounting much neater and easier. The clamp is an extra step but the quality and constancy of the bond is dramatically better. Perhaps not an issue for some but very much an issue in cross. Try it and you will be sold :beer:

[geoffm]

Yeah, the use of 3M Fast Tack to glue tires is nothing new. I guess they call it tubular rim glue for a reason, though. The conventional glues, especially Vittoria Mastik One and Continental, are better performers. With respect to cure time, too, Mastik One and Continental are still better than 3M.

The only empirical data I ever saw was in Jones, C.C., and Howat, C.S., 1995. Tubular Tires: Adhesives and Practice. Cycling USA (a study completed at the Kurata Thermodynamics Laboratory - Department of Chemical & Petroleum Engineering at the University of Kansas). In that study, the authors concluded of 3M Fast Tack that: "[i]t has the reputation among many mechanics for a fast cure time. In reality, its strength after one hour was only 55% of its final strength and only 50% of Mastik One's one hour strength. It is essentially equivalent to the performance of Wolber. this should dispel the reputation for fast cure times."

Personally, I believe that there are no short-cuts for properly gluing tires safetly. You need to use a quality glue like Vittoria Mastik One with repeated applications of thin layers on rim and tire over a period of days.

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah, the use of 3M Fast Tack to glue tires is nothing new. I guess they call it tubular rim glue for a reason, though. The conventional glues, especially Vittoria Mastik One and Continental, are better performers. With respect to cure time, too, Mastik One and Continental are still better than 3M.

The only empirical data I ever saw was in Jones, C.C., and Howat, C.S., 1995. Tubular Tires: Adhesives and Practice. Cycling USA (a study completed at the Kurata Thermodynamics Laboratory - Department of Chemical & Petroleum Engineering at the University of Kansas). In that study, the authors concluded of 3M Fast Tack that: "[i]t has the reputation among many mechanics for a fast cure time. In reality, its strength after one hour was only 55% of its final strength and only 50% of Mastik One's one hour strength. It is essentially equivalent to the performance of Wolber. this should dispel the reputation for fast cure times."

Personally, I believe that there are no short-cuts for properly gluing tires safetly. You need to use a quality glue like Vittoria Mastik One with repeated applications of thin layers on rim and tire over a period of days.

Well said, and this thread is beginning to get old but, "You need to use a quality glue like Vittoria Mastik One with repeated applications of thin layers on rim and tire over a period of days"

No, not days required...one sitting...done well, 30 minutes or so.

[SamIAm]

Well said, and this thread is beginning to get old but, "You need to use a quality glue like Vittoria Mastik One with repeated applications of thin layers on rim and tire over a period of days"

No, not days required...one sitting...done well, 30 minutes or so.

It sounds like you have tons of experience doing this with perfect outcomes. It would be a real value added service if you could film yourself mounting a tubular and share it with us.

The fear of mounting these properly is the prime factor in me having never tried them.

[oldpotatoe]

It sounds like you have tons of experience doing this with perfect outcomes. It would be a real value added service if you could film yourself mounting a tubular and share it with us.

The fear of mounting these properly is the prime factor in me having never tried them.

Maybe I'll do that in my free time, between 2 and 4 in the morning..

Seriously, it's not black magic, not hard. I think there is SO much misinformation about this and many things 'bike' out there.

Don't you have a bike shop locally that has their '????e together', this isn't that hard, but bike shops are generally lazy.

[DRietz]

I don't know. I've heard some bad things about using 3M products on tubies.

Plus, I've always glued with Vittoria mastik. Just what I was taught with - I like the stuff.

[11.4]

There are numerous extensive threads on this subject. Leonard Zinn copied much of it for his videos on the Velonews website, though I think he missed a few points.

It's important to realize that all the adhesives have been completely reformulated since Chip Howat's study cited above. As a result, none of those results have any relevance any longer. The simple reality now is that most pro teams and virtually all World Cup track teams use Mastik One. It's consistent in quality (unlike some years ago) and readily available. And there are more results on it than on anything else, by an order of magnitude.

However, technique is more important than the glue. And by technique, I don't just mean two layers here, one layer there, then slap it together. I mean looking at the tire to rim joint and understanding when it's ready to glue -- the right thickness, the right curvature match, when you need to clean the rim, etc. Tubulars benefit from experience, though just by being consistent you can immediately be 80% up the learning curve.

[sean]

While we are on the subject. Does anyone know anything about the new Tufo tape?

http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/tufo-road-tub-tape-med.jpg

It's not on Tufo's site.

I saw it going out the door while at my local bike shop. Asked quickly and my friend said it was something new that was different than the extreme, but hand't had time to look into it.

[alexstar]

Which shop?

Tufo does make a "regular" non-Extreme gluing tape. The Extreme tape was intended for use in high-temperature, high-stress environments.

You never hear about anybody using the "non-extreme" tape... I don't know why. Maybe it was crap, and this is a new and improved version.

[sean]

Which shop?

Tufo does make a "regular" non-Extreme gluing tape. The Extreme tape was intended for use in high-temperature, high-stress environments.

You never hear about anybody using the "non-extreme" tape... I don't know why. Maybe it was crap, and this is a new and improved version.

I'll look into it more. It was at Freewheel hayes. Travis there told me it was different than the regular and extreme gluing tapes. I've never used the non-extreme/yellow package tape. My guess is it's just that, not extreme. :)

That is the one side of extreme tape. Getting the tire off is a PIA, plus, the tape is so thick I try and pull it off to put a new tubular on. Not sure how necessary this is, but I can say it's blister town trying to get it off. I would image the non extreme is better for this.

I've always wondered what gluing a tire to the tape would do. It does provide a nice, level/smooth surface to apply glue to. I'm thinking more for an emergency repair than a permanent solve.

[terrytnt]

I've heard quite positive outcomes with tufo tape, i.e., very very easy to install, better still for aligning the tire and easier than Mastik for on the road service.

I've used mastik for years and really looking for a simple replacement to 'glue'. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac_QFWLiUDE&feature=email

For my next set of tubulars this season, I plan to use Tufo tape!