Why aren't ti cross frames more popular?

[dbh]

Seeing alpsantos' ti Moots cross back in the custom bike photo gallery got me wondering why ti isn't a more popular material for cross? It seems ideally suited for the purpose given its resistance to rust, its strength, and of course its weight. Plus you don't have to worry about damaging the paint. Why go high end carbon when you can get a frame as light but far less brittle in ti? A Ridley X-Night retails for $2300, not much less than a quality ti frame after all.

[Steve in SLO]

I don't know. My Mooto-x is the last bike I would sell.

[cincytri]

Can't figure this one out either. Ti has really suffered in the marketplace in the last several years, but I would agree with you that Ti deserves more than a second look for cross...especially from racers who are not at the pointy end of competition and for whom the stiffest and lightest are not really necessary. I'm waiting on wheels to be built up for my Moots Psychlo-X, so at least one or two of us are in your camp...

[CNY rider]

I have a Serotta dirt road bike made of Ti and I love it.
Very popular with me! :banana:

[Pete Serotta]

Carbon is in...Ti is a very good ride even against today's newer bikes


Carbon is what folks want and they are cheap to make for many of them are made in far east. Additionally MANY of pro teams have them. PRO Teams are sponsored by the carbon makers quite often and the frames can be replaced far more often than we replace our personal frames.

There are many favorite carbon rides out there........as folks here often mention.


Go with the one the puts the smile on you,,,,and incites you to ride as much as possible.

Serotta, Moots Ericksen, and Sepctrum are some of my Ti favorites....(keep in mind that that is just my opinion.

[Fixed]

carbon pour crap in mold pull out frame ti welding is tricky takes skilled craftsman
imho

[oldpotatoe]

Seeing alpsantos' ti Moots cross back in the custom bike photo gallery got me wondering why ti isn't a more popular material for cross? It seems ideally suited for the purpose given its resistance to rust, its strength, and of course its weight. Plus you don't have to worry about damaging the paint. Why go high end carbon when you can get a frame as light but far less brittle in ti? A Ridley X-Night retails for $2300, not much less than a quality ti frame after all.

Aluminum and carbon cross frames can be expensive(at least with expensive decals) but mostly are in abundance because they are cheap. Cheap to make, cheap to buy and if ya kill one, just get another. Cross, altho gaining in popularity yearly, is still an adjunct to road and even MTB riding and considered a secondary pursuit to most. So a dedicated Ti frame for cross would be an expensive proposition to many but I agree, ti in a lot of ways, is the perfect material or cross.

The second thing about 'cyclocross' is that it's an event, not just a bicycle. A race. Yes many ride a cross bike everyday but primarily, it culminates in racing, like triathlon.

[Fixed]

The second thing about 'cyclocross' is that it's an event, not just a bicycle. A race. Yes many ride a cross bike everyday but primarily, it culminates in racing, like triathlon.
road race bike
mt bike
track bike
cross bike
time trial bike
what makes any of these a race bike ...... an entry from
imho
cheers

[rockdude]

I have two Ti Cross bikes and will likely get another before next season. Its the only way to go with its weight, durability and ability to smooth out the rough stuff.

[Lifelover]

...Why go high end carbon when you can get a frame as light but far less brittle in ti?....

Problem #1 is that the above statement is not true. With equally strong and durable Ti and CF frames, the CF frames will be lighter, cheaper and doesn't need paint either.

[bobswire]

Carbon is in...Ti is a very good ride even against today's newer bikes


Carbon is what folks want and they are cheap to make for many of them are made in far east. Additionally MANY of pro teams have them. PRO Teams are sponsored by the carbon makers quite often and the frames can be replaced far more often than we replace our personal frames.

There are many favorite carbon rides out there........as folks here often mention.


Go with the one the puts the smile on you,,,,and incites you to ride as much as possible.

Serotta, Moots Ericksen, and Sepctrum are some of my Ti favorites....(keep in mind that that is just my opinion.

Pete you forgot "Seven" which I understand will be fabricating for Spectrum?

[rockdude]

My thoughts are if more people could afford Ti they would ride a Ti cross frames. If Ti and carbon were the same price and had market presences, you would see more of them.


Weight differences between Ti and a well build carbon is negligible. We have found that the lighter carbon frames have had problems like what Steven's has seen. Once you beef up the carbon the 3-8 oz differences are not going to keep you off the podium.

[rustychain]

My question is why not 953 steel. All the benefits of Ti and more. Much more dent and scratch resistant. Stiffer at the same weight. Perfect for cross. I.F. is not interested in building me one so I will have to keep looking. If I can't find a builder I'll go Ti. Any 953 fabricators out there????

[Bruce K]

I love my Ti Serotta Councours cross bike.

BK

[djg]

Seeing alpsantos' ti Moots cross back in the custom bike photo gallery got me wondering why ti isn't a more popular material for cross? It seems ideally suited for the purpose given its resistance to rust, its strength, and of course its weight. Plus you don't have to worry about damaging the paint. Why go high end carbon when you can get a frame as light but far less brittle in ti? A Ridley X-Night retails for $2300, not much less than a quality ti frame after all.

Dunno for sure. In the right hands it's great stuff -- no worries about unpainted scratches and dents and dings are much more unlikely in typical circumstances. I have a few ideas, mostly having to do with price. You do see a few, btw. I have one of 2 or 3 Serotta ti cross bikes I've seen at MABRA or other mid-Atlantic races and I've seen a couple from moots, a 7, and a DeSalvo. The thing is, you don't see many X-Nights on non-sponsored riders. Alloy Ridleys in droves. X-Fires, sure, some. But all those bikes can be had all built up for under 2k on a team deal. Kona, Canny, and Redline? Again,relatively inexpensive, and these are the bikes that seem to dominate numerically. And for made-to-measure frames from good builders -- steel tends to be a good deal less expensive from the builders who do both.

There also may be an element of historical accident to it. Look at the set of custom/made-to-measure builders and ask yourself what small subset are heavily invested-in or associated with cross? Richard Sachs of course. Mr. White's Speedvagen and Vanilla bikes. These guys build exclusively in steel. That's not to say that Serotta doesn't build a great ti cross bike (I think mine is excellent) or that Tom K couldn't produce a great one (he probably has done so) -- just that in the relatively thin end of the cross community that's actually paying 2k or more for a frame, a good number will be chasing bikes from these particular builders (and then some others will be chasing the latest/greatest bling frame from the pro ranks).

Frankly, I'd like to see Serotta expanding their presence here. Sponsoring a serious pro road team might be scary/nuts expensive for a firm the size of Serotta. But taking a page out of RS's book might be very tractable. Sponsor an elite domestic cross team that can race at the Nationals but concentrates their efforts in a popular cross region -- New England and the Northeast are obviously closest to Serotta. The PNW, maybe the mid-Atlantic would be the third-place region. Put them on quality and recognizable Ti frames that can be built and sold to the (little) masses at a tractable price -- something like the short-lived GP Suisse Ti, but this time bundled to a race presence. You produce a serious race presence and street cred at a fraction of the cost of doing it on the road. I'm not a marketing guy and I'm sure I'm over-looking non-trivial issues. But this is something that RS has done (out of love as well as marketing), IF, Vanilla -- seems as if it must be possible.

[PacNW2Ford]

My question is why not 953 steel. All the benefits of Ti and more. Much more dent and scratch resistant. Stiffer at the same weight. Perfect for cross. I.F. is not interested in building me one so I will have to keep looking. If I can't find a builder I'll go Ti. Any 953 fabricators out there????

333Fab "Triple Three Fab" in Seattle will build 'cross frames with Columbus XCr

[Ahneida Ride]

My question is why not 953 steel. All the benefits of Ti and more. Much more dent and scratch resistant. Stiffer at the same weight. Perfect for cross. I.F. is not interested in building me one so I will have to keep looking. If I can't find a builder I'll go Ti. Any 953 fabricators out there????


Yes ..... K. Bedford .... 30+ years experience.
Kelly builds road, cross, touring, mountain models, in steel, stainless and Ti.
Lugged, Fillet, Tig. All completely custom.

[dbh]

Yes ..... K. Bedford .... 30+ years experience.
Kelly builds road, cross, touring, mountain models, in steel, stainless and Ti.
Lugged, Fillet, Tig. All completely custom.

Daves Wages, the proprietor of Ellis Cycles (who also posts here) does wonderful things with 953. He builds cross frames as well.

[SpeedyChix]

Not sure why ti isn't seen more for CX. It is a bit more for the frame, but there are carbon frames that are in a similar price range. Upside is the ti takes a real beating without any worries. The ride is really nice. Five seasons on the one with orange decals, think the green decal frame has that many as well.

Here are some much loved ti CX bikes, our small team is thick with Eriksen CX rigs.

[BengeBoy]

Salsa is introducing a whole line of Ti frames, including this cross frame:

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/la_cruz_ti1/

They also now have Ti frames for dirt-road bikes and mountain bikes.

I think they are made by Lynskey.