college crit nationals hard on bikes

[kbwheels]

Just wondering if anyone saw the picture of the result of a crash at the national college crit. championships on the velonews web site. Just wondering is a steel or ti frame would have faired better? Sorry there is no direct link but I am new to the forum and I am still trying to figure out to use all the tools

[BumbleBeeDave]

Ouch. That does NOT look good.

Can that be glued back together?

BBDave

[coylifut]

I'm starting to believe that buying a Fuji or something else equally disposable is a better choice for racers like me who buy their own equipment. I've seen a couple of bikes torn in half. One was CF the other Aluminum. I have a teammate who suffered a horrible crash resulting in 6 broken ribs, collapsed lung and a collar bone broken in 3 places. His Vanilla looked as if someone ran up to it and took a full swing at the chain stay with a hatchet. His DA 10 big ring was folded over. He recently told me that the stay has been (is being replaced) and bike was salvaged.

[cs124]

...but it is a real shame to see such a cool bike trashed like that.

[Climb01742]

judging by where the chain appears to be (big ring up front and smaller cogs out back) the racer was flying and giving it their all.

[cs124]

judging by where the chain appears to be (big ring up front and smaller cogs out back) the racer was flying and giving it their all.
Yep, and look at all the crud on the frame, wheels and mechanics hands. It must have been pretty wet out there. Hope the rider is ok.

[cs124]

I'm starting to believe that buying a Fuji or something else equally disposable is a better choice for racers like me who buy their own equipment. snip...

Hmmm, tough choice. Maybe some bikes are too nice to risk trashing in a race. OTOH, when racing you want a bike that you can really trust and that means fit and handling dialled just right. Maybe something like an Eddy Merckx Racing. Built in lots of sizes, Merckx geo, not overly pricey and if it's important to you, street cred.

[Dr. Doofus]

if can't replace

don't race

gunnar, cysip, ti cycles

good steel bike

not much money

ride carbon

after contract

fat chance

bubba

spend rest

on girls

instead

[coylifut]

Hmmm, tough choice. Maybe some bikes are too nice to risk trashing in a race. OTOH, when racing you want a bike that you can really trust and that means fit and handling dialled just right. Maybe something like an Eddy Merckx Racing. Built in lots of sizes, Merckx geo, not overly pricey and if it's important to you, street cred.

what's got me on the Fuji line of thought is our team manager is a Fuji dealer because he buys em for the fleet at the Velodrome and anyone else who wants em. A handful of guys on the team bought em and they love em. He gets the all carbon with DA 10 for $2,200. I'm guessing tears were shed over that Parlee.

[cs124]

Coy, only way to tell is to try one. If you like it, go for it. Sounds like a great VFM deal.

[coylifut]

Coy, only way to tell is to try one. If you like it, go for it. Sounds like a great VFM deal.

what's vfm mean?

[cs124]

what's vfm mean?

value for money, or if you want to get really tricky BFYB (bang for your buck)

sorry, lots of acronyms here where I work, they just slip through into civilian life occasionally

[soren]

Yes, that crit was very hard on the riders. It rained very hard the night before in Lawrence, Kansas (caused some flooding), and the crit roads had crap all over them. Word from my racers is that the Parlee and it's rider (from Western Washington University) hit a parking meter. He broke his collarbone, but is otherwise okay, as far as I know.

Soren
Whitman College
Walla Walla, WA

[slowgoing]

His bike probably cost more than his tuition. Kids these days!

[William]

I'm starting to believe that buying a Fuji or something else equally disposable is a better choice for racers like me who buy their own equipment. I've seen a couple of bikes torn in half. One was CF the other Aluminum. I have a teammate who suffered a horrible crash resulting in 6 broken ribs, collapsed lung and a collar bone broken in 3 places. His Vanilla looked as if someone ran up to it and took a full swing at the chain stay with a hatchet. His DA 10 big ring was folded over. He recently told me that the stay has been (is being replaced) and bike was salvaged.

As someone who has destroyed a couple of frames in crit racing (in my collegiate days as well) in my time, I fully agree. Cheap dialed in racing Iron is they way to go if you like to rub elbows and have a frantic obsession with staying near the front in a crit. :banana: It boils down to the true but often overlooked saying, "It's the motor man, it's the motor". Cheap replacement for racing, save the baby for the rest. Unless of course you're being sponsored by say Serotta (or insert other high end builders name) and your not paying for them. :bike:

William

[Fixed]

That is a mag. frame right?

[Too Tall]

Glad this fellow is OK.

Who actually own's that bike?

[smbrand1]

That's my bike in the picture. Its status in that photo from velonews.com was a result of my involvment in the 3rd (and last) crash that occurred during the final lap of the D2 crit. It was wet and very sketchy- a wide range of ability and experience combined with the high stakes of a national championchip, there were probably 8 or 9 crashes total. We we're heading into the last of 2 corners before the finish and someone went into the barriers on the right side of the road. I don't have a computer on my bike, but we were being led into that turn by a Lees McCrae rider who will spend his summer riding for the Advantage Benefits/Endeavor pro squad- so we were moving. I was maybe 10 (12? 13? who knows really) riders from the front and steered left in an attempt to avoid the carnage. I almost made it, but bikes and riders were flying everywhere. A maroon Cannondale came sliding out of the crash and right into my path with its rider right behind it. The seatpost I think is what got me. I remember feeling a sense of weightlessness for what seemed like a minute or two. Then I hit the ground. Ouch. I came to rest on my right side in a semi-fetal position with my Parlee still between my legs. I didn't open my eyes until the paramedics came over and started talking to me. That's when I saw my busted bike and the parking meter that was now between the headtube/cockpit and the rest of the bike. I think we had to be going 30mph or more based on who was at the front of the race at the time of the crash and the fact that we were about to round the last corners. I don't think that there is a bike out there that would've survived a similar crash.

The good news is that I'm reletively OK. No broken collarbone as one post suggested. I have a hip pointer and my shoulder hurts a lot when I wake up, and maybe a bruised rib too, but otherwise OK. Also, Parlee is really taking care of me. They're hooking me up on the double with a new Z3 frame via their crash-replacement policy and charging me the bare minimum- basically their cost. They've been super supportive and were more concerned that I was ok than with the fact that one of thier bikes ended up on Velonews.com in two pieces. These bikes may be expensive, but I think its worth the price to support these builders who are trying to compete with the likes of Trek and Giant and also because of the support they give back to their customers. I'm sure dealing with Serotta is similar (I almost forgot that this is a Serotta forum...).

Anyway, I thought some of you might like to hear it from the horse's mouth since it seems to have generated so much interest...

Sean B.

[bulliedawg]

That's my bike in the picture. Its status in that photo from velonews.com was a result of my involvment in the 3rd (and last) crash that occurred during the final lap of the D2 crit. It was wet and very sketchy- a wide range of ability and experience combined with the high stakes of a national championchip, there were probably 8 or 9 crashes total. We we're heading into the last of 2 corners before the finish and someone went into the barriers on the right side of the road. I don't have a computer on my bike, but we were being led into that turn by a Lees McCrae rider who will spend his summer riding for the Advantage Benefits/Endeavor pro squad- so we were moving. I was maybe 10 (12? 13? who knows really) riders from the front and steered left in an attempt to avoid the carnage. I almost made it, but bikes and riders were flying everywhere. A maroon Cannondale came sliding out of the crash and right into my path with its rider right behind it. The seatpost I think is what got me. I remember feeling a sense of weightlessness for what seemed like a minute or two. Then I hit the ground. Ouch. I came to rest on my right side in a semi-fetal position with my Parlee still between my legs. I didn't open my eyes until the paramedics came over and started talking to me. That's when I saw my busted bike and the parking meter that was now between the headtube/cockpit and the rest of the bike. I think we had to be going 30mph or more based on who was at the front of the race at the time of the crash and the fact that we were about to round the last corners. I don't think that there is a bike out there that would've survived a similar crash.

The good news is that I'm reletively OK. No broken collarbone as one post suggested. I have a hip pointer and my shoulder hurts a lot when I wake up, and maybe a bruised rib too, but otherwise OK. Also, Parlee is really taking care of me. They're hooking me up on the double with a new Z3 frame via their crash-replacement policy and charging me the bare minimum- basically their cost. They've been super supportive and were more concerned that I was ok than with the fact that one of thier bikes ended up on Velonews.com in two pieces. These bikes may be expensive, but I think its worth the price to support these builders who are trying to compete with the likes of Trek and Giant and also because of the support they give back to their customers. I'm sure dealing with Serotta is similar (I almost forgot that this is a Serotta forum...).

Anyway, I thought some of you might like to hear it from the horse's mouth since it seems to have generated so much interest...

Sean B.

Glad you didn't end up worse off, and that Parlee is treating you right. On the bright side, you have a great story to tell.

[kbwheels]

Very glad to hear you are doing o.k and sorry about the bike. Take care.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . just one of those things and I’m glad you’re OK. But it’s also the main reason I don’t race, ESPECIALLY in crits. It’s just a matter of when you will crash, not if.

Your note does make me wonder, though, about how the course was prepared, if there were parking meters in front of the barriers. It sounds inherently dangerous. Are there course inspectors who must OK the course before it’s approved to ride?

Additionally, what requirements are there for riders, given your remark about skill levels? Can any college send a rider or team to nationals? Does the rider have to be USCF licensed to be in the race? In other words, is it possible to be mixing it up in this national championship race with non-licensed, inexperienced riders from non-cycling schools who may have only done a couple of crits in their lives?

BBDave

[Too Tall]

Kudos. You are one tough SOB. It's really great to hear stories from real people who are GOING for it. I totally understand your commitment esp. in rough conditions when most people pack in.

[William]

. . . just one of those things and I’m glad you’re OK. But it’s also the main reason I don’t race, ESPECIALLY in crits. It’s just a matter of when you will crash, not if.

Your note does make me wonder, though, about how the course was prepared, if there were parking meters in front of the barriers. It sounds inherently dangerous. Are there course inspectors who must OK the course before it’s approved to ride?


BBDave

You are correct. If you like to go for it in a crit (which were my favorites), diving into corners, rubbing elbows shoulders & heads while jockeying for position in prime & pack sprints, it's generally not a matter of "if", as it is of "when". Nature of the beast. As I remember it, if there were parking meters, telephone poles or street signs on the course, hay bales where placed in front of them to avoid hard impacts.

Racing collegiate, we still had to be members of USCF.

William

[Fixed]

If you ride a bike you are going to crash sometime.WE have to take the good with the bad.You know that saying old and bold riders.As a bike messenger I have been down many times it's part of the job only once did I have to go to hospital. Good luck with your riding and school thanks.

[smbrand1]

. . . just one of those things and I’m glad you’re OK. But it’s also the main reason I don’t race, ESPECIALLY in crits. It’s just a matter of when you will crash, not if.

Your note does make me wonder, though, about how the course was prepared, if there were parking meters in front of the barriers. It sounds inherently dangerous. Are there course inspectors who must OK the course before it’s approved to ride?

Additionally, what requirements are there for riders, given your remark about skill levels? Can any college send a rider or team to nationals? Does the rider have to be USCF licensed to be in the race? In other words, is it possible to be mixing it up in this national championship race with non-licensed, inexperienced riders from non-cycling schools who may have only done a couple of crits in their lives?

BBDave

The crit course was an "L" shape and pretty nice in terms of road conditions. Half of the back straight though was really wide (4 lanes) and then it narrowed to two, which caused lots of chaos- group bunching up, attacks coming from both sides of the peleton at the same time in the wide section, then having to scrunch back together when the course paired down... a couple riders I talked to afterward seemed to think this had a lot to do with all the crashing. One rider from California summed the race up perfectly as a "stay on your bike competition".

As for the barriers, they lined both sides of the street along the start/finish area and the entire front straight away. The only other barriers were along the back stretch and they were on the right side of the road, to separate us from the auto traffic, and to coral us from four lanes to two. On the left side (inside) of the back stretch was yellow caution tape. Needless to say, that tape didn't keep me from meeting the parking meter. From what I understand, the crash I was in started when a guy got pushed into the barriers before the last turns and hooked his bar on them. I'm not sure about officials and inspection. I would imagine that race promoters have to meet some type of criteria in creating a criterium course of this nature based on USA Cycling regulations, but I have really have no idea.

And as for the varying levels of skill and experience, it's a result of anyone who chooses to do so being able to race in the A category. Also, probably 95% of the teams in attendance are club teams, meaning the teams are created by students and get (generally) little support from their schools. So any team who can afford the trip and can qualify can go. In order to make it to nationals, teams have to qualify by placing in the top two or three in their respective conference. Points in our conference (Northwest Collegiate Cycling Conference) are based on a 5 week season of omniums. I think it's pretty similar throughout collegiate cycling. Also, strong individual riders from each conference are invited to compete as well, so If you're team consists of just one rider (or just one strong rider) he or she may be invited based on individual performance. But there are no criteria to meet in terms of being able to race in the A category. One just has to believe that he or she is strong enough to compete at that level. But being a good bike racer involves more than just being a hammerhead, especially in crit racing. So, long story short, racers have to be licensed by USCF to race, but it is possible to be mixing it up in the same race with professionals and cat V's who've only raced in the 5 or 6 crits it took their team to qualify for nationals. I think in general though, most of the riders fall somewhere in between those two extremes.

Hopefully that answers your questions.

Sean

[smbrand1]

you can see what the course looked like at www.kuroadnationals.com. there're tons of pictures. my description came from memory, which as you can imigine, is a little fuzzy :bike:

[BumbleBeeDave]

.. . that the organizer found out late that Lawrence was hosting the event, so some mistakes in preparation are understandable. But just putting up some yellow tape to let guys moving at 30mph know they were in danger of wrapping themselves around metal poles sounds like a prescription for a lawsuit. Same thing for widening and narrowing the course unexpectedly, AND not having any standards in place to ensure a minimum skill level among the competitors.

On the other end of the scale, I think it's great that Parlee is giving you so much support, expecially given what I've heard about the size of their operation. Somebody (more than) huge like Trek can jump in and take care of it without a second thought, but for a smaller, "boutique" builder, the commitment represents a much larger proportion of their total resources. Bravo to Parlee!

BBDave